Why do christians hate Westboro?

reply to post by UniverSoul


I am not a Christian, nor do I follow any religion. The word 'religion' originates from the Latin "religare", which means "to tie back, bind fast, tie up". Belief systems that literally define as "hold you down and control you"... nope, not for me anymore.

I am speaking as a human being about my fellow human beings at Westboro Baptist.

Remember, Jesus said "not all who say to me 'Lord, Lord' will enter the Kingdom." Westboro Baptist is just like the people you know who only gossip and talk bad about others; they think the more they point out the 'bad' in 'others,' the better it makes them look.

• Only God can judge. -Westboro is judging others.
• Let he who is without sin cast the first stone. -Westboro is casting stones instead of working on their own hearts.
• Remove the plank from your own eye. -Westboro has a plank in their eye but is complaining abou the speck in the eye of others. Hypocrites!

With your "it's in the Bible" stance of argument.... EVERYTHING is in the Bible. Good, Bad, Wicked, Upright, Sin, Obedience. It really gets simple; just pick the verses that will fulfill your agenda and ignore the rest. Inner feel good Christians ignore the separation and evil in the Bible... Westboro ignores the Love, Frogiveness, and Acceptance of the Bible. There really is no debate other than these Westboro people going out of their way to ruin funerals and emotionally torture the families of the deceased.

reply to post by bhornbuckle75


i think you misunderstood the OP's point. i am fairly certain the OP is not defending the Westboro church, but is instead intended to point out that their hate has its roots in scripture.

what does it matter where they protest? would it be any less hate filled if they protested a gay persons funeral than a soldier's? either way, they are protesting homosexuals because their is scripture in the bible that tells them to do so.

the point (as i see it) is a valid question exploring the issue of some of the more radical passages in the bible (especially the Old Testament), and how does a modern Christian reconcile these radical passages. i find it an interesting dilemma myself.

PS... those rather batty passages you have quoted further illustrate the point! i'll just use that 'hair' one to justify my not shaving today!

Modern christians pick and choose what they want to follow from the bible, they disregard the things they don't like or that have become morally un-acceptable on a society level and then happily go about their business of telling non-christians that the bible is the infallable word of God .. a bit hypocritical isn't it? The bible has always been about being "God fearing" .. don't disobey the lord or you will suffer his wrath.. follow him and enjoy his love .. how can this be when Christians so blatantly ignore large parts of the bible? .. I've always been interested in that.

Westboro does the same exact thing mentioned above, only they specifically choose to follow those bits and pieces the other Christians have quietly discarded.. it's a bit ironic when you think about it because Westboro is basically presenting modern Christians with a mirror into their own past ..Christianity has a violent history and extreme discrimination .. Where Westboro protests, historic Christians would probably have had someone stoned to death instead .. or ejected from the village .. or their entire town destroyed..

I much prefer the modern Christian, at least the majority have abandoned violence in favor of morality .. but at the same time, they are in fact blatantly cherry picking the bible for what they want to follow .. disregarding their own God's wishes.

Originally posted by Lazarus Short

Originally posted by UniverSoul

Originally posted by Lazarus Short
I don't hate them, but I dislike their unscriptural Hellfire schtick.

unscriptural?
its written in the bible..
please explain what you mean?

Do I have to play 20 questions with all of you?
It is NOT written in the Bible. I was an athiest for fifteen years, and came to the Bible with no preconceptions or biases. One thing I noted was that little was said of Heaven and less of Hell. If it was really such a big deal, God would have given us more warning, but He never pronounced a judgment worse than simple death. There is a site named Tentmaker which has a list of Bible verses sufficient to establish the doctrine of Universal Reconciliation. Do your own research, and you will quickly see that the common comcept of Hell came from pagan sources, and Hell as you find it in the Bible almost always means "the grave."

it IS written in the bible! its there just as much as any good thing you take from it
you truely dont understand your religion
how can you claim to follow god if you dont follow god

'he never pronounced a judgment worse than simple death'
worse then death? according to the bible they will not only die but go to hell and be tortured for eternity!
im sure the bible does refer to hell as 'the grave' but that would clearly be just another name for it as it explains in full extent the torture you will recieve and what it even looks like

ive done my research and the source is the bible, being a christian why isnt this a good enough source?

reply to post by UniverSoul


I hate Westboro because they are a gross perversion of what Christianity is. Yes, the bible verse you quoted is real and it clearly means that homosexuality is wrong, at least in the paradigm of Christianity, but the problem is that not all people believe in Christianity, and in America ALL people are free to pursue there own brand of happiness, whatever that may be, as long as it does not infringe upon the freedom and liberty of someone else. I personally find homosexuality disgusting, however as a freedom loving human being, a gay person has the GOD GIVEN right to be gay and pursue happiness as a gay person. Westboro wants to force their religious dogma on everyone, which flies in the face of God's greatest gift to mankind... freedom. Most fundemental or traditional Christians beleive in freedom, just as long as that freedom falls in line with their religious paradigm. That is not freedom. In this way the "Religious Right" is no different than the "Progressive Left" in that both sides only beleive in their brand of freedom, and anything else is a sin, or is racist, etc... They are hypocrites, and I would love to be a fly on the wall when these Westboro terrorists actually come face to face with God and find out just how wrong they are. Having said all of that, I will defend Westboro's right to say what they say and protest as they do, but if someone decides to run them over with their car you won't hear any complaints from me.

Originally posted by mythos
it is not a dilemma i envy, and am thankful that the 'gospel', as i have come to understand it, is manifest in the majesty of Nature, the vastness of the Cosmos, the beauty of Art and the grace of Love... such blissfully brazen manifestations of Eternity simply cannot be confined into one source. how could it be?

That's beautiful. Nice post.

Originally posted by UniverSoul
i think its fine to learn from the good parts of the bible..but they shouldnt say they believe in god if thats all they take from it
your right i often wonder how advanced we would be today without religion..

it is the paradox of devotion... the dilemma of putting all your eggs in one basket... and the christian basket (despite some inspiring stuff) has got some serious WTF moments peppered throughout.

can a Christian, Jew, Muslim cherry pick their source book? does that demean their faith? it is a question of theology students the world over, IMO.

like i said, i do not envy such a spiritual dilemma. i prefer my source to be far more vast than any one book can contain (except Lord of the Rings, 'cause Tolkien is awesome!!! . )

reply to post by UniverSoul


I am still quite trying to locate your true motive for making this post, but I am going to reply to what you have raised.

I think you are thoroughly misunderstanding the Scriptures.

1. I don't hate Westboro. I value any true Christian action, but I deplore anything that an institution does that is contrary to the Spirit of Scripture.

2. You seem to equate every action conducted by those who say they are following Christ with true Christianity; that is where your mistake lies. We both know that most of the established institutions who say they are Christian do not act like Christ told them to act. They in fact do the very opposite. It is written many times throughout the Old and New Covenant about people who only pay lip service to the true Spirit of The Scriptures; like those who sentenced Christ to death.

3. What is written in the Old Covenant is multi layered. The Bible is not about any one thing. It is the record of Prophesies, a record of Kings, a recorded history of a people, an account of Creation, a book of Law, and a million other things.

4. The Old Covenant is The Law. The new Covenant is literally what it says It is; a new contract between The LORD and people.

I think you need to think a little more about this subject because your post is very poor commentary. You are judging and trying to point blame without understanding the subject.

If you are atall interested my Savior Jesus taught me never to hate anyone. He told me to love my enemy as much as I love my friend. He taught me NEVER to judge another because I will be judged as I judge. He taught me many many survival and life skills and offers me a place in His Kingdom if I will believe Him.

I know many people struggle with Faith because their scientific and material minds are bound to the material. Faith is not material, it is of The Spirit.

The "disgusting" passages you share here are indeed there. However, you must look at them in context. I could throw the same kind of logic at scientists and pagans. Many people have died and still die as a result of scientific developments, like from radiation, etc. Many pagan peoples sacrificed their children. Human beings have a dark and brutal history.

How do you think that history has changed? I tell you Jesus brought the Light to the earth. He taught forgiveness and love and said He was the last necessary sacrifice.

Don't hold The LORD responsible for the way we humans do even His business. He knows so well what we are like. He sent His Son knowing what we would do to Him. In the Book of Job, He tells us Jacob is a mere worm before the majesty of The Creator. Jesus told us we are all sinners and it would not be even possible for any of us to be saved because of our illness, were it not for The LORD's enduring love and patience and the ransom paid for our deliverance from sin.

Just because some people who say they are doing Christ's will go around behaving in an utterly un-Christian way does not mean they are truely following Christ. Only Christ will know His true believers. Remember He warned us of those who pretend; wolves in sheep's clothing.

reply to post by Benevolent Heretic


thank you.

the notion helps me get through the day oft times, especially when this world seems to have gone a bit topsy-turvy.

cheers.

reply to post by UniverSoul


no they say it GOD HATES FAGS???? ok not a hate group...

they are retarded simply put..i have zero patience for these assholes...if they went to attend a even that i had to be i would snap... i was taught growing up understanding and love of my nieghbor no matter there choices... god is the only one to pass judgement .. not those who think they are better because they know how to hide behind a religion


oh yeah because of idiots like westboro i am a non practicing christian....

reply to post by UniverSoul


You say: it IS written in the bible! [end quote]


Oh, wow, where are you reading that? Please list a verse or two, or hum a few bars. The Kingdom of Heaven is a fact. Hell is a myth. Here, I'll throw you another crumb: If Hell is real with Satan as it's ruler, does that not make him equal with God? Further, is that not what got Satan into trouble in the first place? Belief in Hell only furthers Satan's ambitions and reinforces his lies. Thus, belief in Hell dishonors God. Get a grip.

Maybe its the whole "Judge not least ye be judged" and "let he who is with out sin cast the first stone" You know the pretty big parts of the bible that these Bigots forget in pursuit of there own agenda.

several more like

Let your gentleness be evident to all (Philippians 4:5).

or

“You have heard the law that says, ‘Love your neighbor’ and hate your enemy. But I say, love your enemies! Pray for those who persecute you! In that way, you will be acting as true children of your Father in heaven. For he gives his sunlight to both the evil and the good, and he sends rain on the just and the unjust alike. If you love only those who love you, what reward is there for that? Even corrupt tax collectors do that much. If you are kind only to your friends, how are you different from anyone else? (Matthew 5:43-47 )


These people spew hate, and are worse than the sins they claim to protest

Originally posted by Lazarus Short
reply to post by UniverSoul

 

Oh, wow, where are you reading that? Please list a verse or two, or hum a few bars. The Kingdom of Heaven is a fact. Hell is a myth. Here, I'll throw you another crumb: If Hell is real with Satan as it's ruler, does that not make him equal with God? Further, is that not what got Satan into trouble in the first place? Belief in Hell only furthers Satan's ambitions and reinforces his lies. Thus, belief in Hell dishonors God. Get a grip.

hell is just as a much a myth as anything else in the bible
there are countless verses that describe hell as a firey place where people will be physically tortured, if you claim to know the bible you would know this so i shouldnt have to show you

yes it does make him equal with god just at an opposite spectrum.
so you believe satan fought with god but not that he created hell?
you really are the prime example of picking and choosing!

Get a grip?
lol ok i dont even need to answer that

Originally posted by Revolution9

If you are atall interested my Savior Jesus taught me never to hate anyone.

edit on 8-10-2011 by Revolution9 because: clarification

i have no intent to question your devotion to your faith, and in fact find it inspiring, however, even the New Testament drops the "hate" word in few places.

Luck 14:16 - “If anyone comes to me and does not hate his own father and mother and wife and children and brothers and sisters, yes, and even his own life, he cannot be my disciple."


of course, we can interpret, and reinterpret this scripture countless ways in an effort to take the edge off the shocking nature of this quote, but the point is, Hate is mentioned in scripture... in the New Testament, no less.

if a Christian commits the whole of their faith to the words of the Bible, then how does a Christian reconcile the more unsettling passages? is it blasphemy for a Christian to accept some scripture, and not others?

that, to me, is the essence of what this thread is about.

edit to add: how do we value which passages are more intended than others? are they written in bold?

if the bible is the Word of God, than everything therein is what God intended... the good, the bad and the ugly. yes? no? am i missing something, devotees?

of course the beautiful passages resonate, and one would embrace them, and the ugly passages are shunned (by most of us), but is that being a true Christian?... ie, one who has devoted their faith to the words contained in the Bible.

once again... that is the dilemma.

how does a christian uphold one part of the bible as the "end all be all" and excuses another part of the bible?

does that not question the integrity of the whole source?

Originally posted by miniatus
Modern christians pick and choose what they want to follow from the bible, they disregard the things they don't like or that have become morally un-acceptable on a society level and then happily go about their business of telling non-christians that the bible is the infallable word of God .. a bit hypocritical isn't it? The bible has always been about being "God fearing" .. don't disobey the lord or you will suffer his wrath.. follow him and enjoy his love .. how can this be when Christians so blatantly ignore large parts of the bible? .. I've always been interested in that.

Westboro does the same exact thing mentioned above, only they specifically choose to follow those bits and pieces the other Christians have quietly discarded.. it's a bit ironic when you think about it because Westboro is basically presenting modern Christians with a mirror into their own past ..Christianity has a violent history and extreme discrimination .. Where Westboro protests, historic Christians would probably have had someone stoned to death instead .. or ejected from the village .. or their entire town destroyed..

I much prefer the modern Christian, at least the majority have abandoned violence in favor of morality .. but at the same time, they are in fact blatantly cherry picking the bible for what they want to follow .. disregarding their own God's wishes.

I am instantly proving you wrong. I am a modern Christian, but I believe every Word Christ spoke. Christ did not tell us to be dictators and tell others what to do. He meant it for us. Like with homosexuality; I don't practice it because I understand why The Bible teaches this. However, if my gay friends do practice it I am no judge of them; I cannot tell them what to do. If they ask me I will tell them my view.

You see, you just make these sweeping comments about Christians and it is really just discriminatory. I am not like any of what you have written. You are just inventing reasons in your own mind why if I say I am a Christian then my logic must be flawed in some way. Not so, my friend. I will argue the toss. I can hold my own with anyone in a debate. My claws are all sharp and polished, try me if you like!

Originally posted by Benevolent Heretic

Originally posted by UniverSoul
your right but this doesnt justify the christians case in this argument

I'm not trying to justify the Christian argument. I'm not a proponent of religion of any sort. I don't see a lot of difference between Westboro and other Christian factions.

There really isn't much difference - - especially between Westboro and Fundamentalists.

Fundamentalists just try to hide behind a smile and be more socially passive.

I'll give a pass to those Christians who try to stay in the positive message - - AND understand what was written in ancient times does not necessarily apply today in the same way.

christians:
there are a lot of long answers you have given so instead of answering all with the same answer i will speak to you all

the things you are saying is just personal opinion

the facts i have given for this thread is what is written in the bible
but christians who believe in the bible cant even use it for an answer?

says it all right there

this thread is not about the fine points
its asking you how can you call yourself a christian if you dont follow what your god asks of you?

WBC loves to picket funerals and events that will most likely gather a response in which they will get the opportunity to sue someone. This is how they earn they income via filthy lucre which is against scripture. Furthermore they wave their signs stating that God hates faggots (homosexuals). Scripture states that it is an abomination.

abomination
a vile, shameful, or detestable action, condition, habit, etc.: Spitting in public is an abomination.

I do not see the word "hate" in the definition of abomination. However scripture does say that God hated Esau. WBC needs to understand that they themselves have sinned and fallen short like everyone else. They love to point their finger at others but fail to notice that in doing so they have three fingers pointing back at themselves. Judge not lest ye be judged. It is OK to call sin sin but make sure your pointing the right direction.

Originally posted by UniverSoul

Originally posted by Lazarus Short
reply to post by UniverSoul

 

Oh, wow, where are you reading that? Please list a verse or two, or hum a few bars. The Kingdom of Heaven is a fact. Hell is a myth. Here, I'll throw you another crumb: If Hell is real with Satan as it's ruler, does that not make him equal with God? Further, is that not what got Satan into trouble in the first place? Belief in Hell only furthers Satan's ambitions and reinforces his lies. Thus, belief in Hell dishonors God. Get a grip.

hell is just as a much a myth as anything else in the bible
there are countless verses that describe hell as a firey place where people will be physically tortured, if you claim to know the bible you would know this so i shouldnt have to show you

yes it does make him equal with god just at an opposite spectrum.
so you believe satan fought with god but not that he created hell?
you really are the prime example of picking and choosing!

Get a grip?
lol ok i dont even need to answer that

Countless verses? The Bible is not that big. Yeah, you still need to show me.
"...just as a [sic] much a myth as anything else in the bible" Now we begin to see your real theology.
Nobody created Hell. It does not exist.
I do not pick and choose. My views are consistent with the entire Bible as I understand it.
I see that our discussion is unprofitable. I shake the dust off my sandals in your presense.

Originally posted by Lazarus Short

Originally posted by UniverSoul

Originally posted by Lazarus Short
reply to post by UniverSoul

 

Oh, wow, where are you reading that? Please list a verse or two, or hum a few bars. The Kingdom of Heaven is a fact. Hell is a myth. Here, I'll throw you another crumb: If Hell is real with Satan as it's ruler, does that not make him equal with God? Further, is that not what got Satan into trouble in the first place? Belief in Hell only furthers Satan's ambitions and reinforces his lies. Thus, belief in Hell dishonors God. Get a grip.

hell is just as a much a myth as anything else in the bible
there are countless verses that describe hell as a firey place where people will be physically tortured, if you claim to know the bible you would know this so i shouldnt have to show you

yes it does make him equal with god just at an opposite spectrum.
so you believe satan fought with god but not that he created hell?
you really are the prime example of picking and choosing!

Get a grip?
lol ok i dont even need to answer that

Countless verses? The Bible is not that big. Yeah, you still need to show me.
"...just as a [sic] much a myth as anything else in the bible" Now we begin to see your real theology.
Nobody created Hell. It does not exist.
I do not pick and choose. My views are consistent with the entire Bible as I understand it.
I see that our discussion is unprofitable. I shake the dust off my sandals in your presense.

'as i understand it'
not as god says it