New ATS Survey: Occupy Wall Street

Just took it. And support. Ows 100% God. Bless. These courageous. Protesters. They are. Truely. Inspiring A's well . They representthe 99% of us , i wish I could be there in support. But I working everything in my power to spread the word. With. Multitude channels videos, twitter blogging. ATS is a great site for our cause. The true. Voice of the. People are. Finally. Being. Heard.
death to. Wall. Street and the.Fed


;'

reply to post by Blaine91555


As far as im aware ( and I have been following OWS on the livestream) there has been no violence by the protesters - the only violence has been by the NYPD .

OF THE PEOPLE BY THE PEOPLE FOR THE PEOPLE.

No one is abandoning their civic duty ,rather it seems everyone is seeking truth where they may find it,the traditional sources of truth seem to all be being burned right now as people fail to believe traditional media sources and instead believe other people on the internet in real time.

No one is advocating violence ,just change,possibly through someone in a position to reestablish leadership of the lacking areas in an expedient fashion and allow the people to be heard and to have their wishes acted upon exactly as they say with no government or other entity affecting the autonomy of that dynamic.

These are educated people,in fact the masses around the world have suddenly risen as highly educated and aware of real time events people,the internet AND SPECIFICLLY CELL PHONES THANK YOU SIR!allowed free unlimited real time education to be given enmasse to the masses of undereducated and underinformed .Truth beyond religon and patriotism is what these people want,and are willing to demand peacefull.

They dont seem to be seeking an explanation because they are smart enough to understand the dynamics of how they got into the problems their country is facing,they are seeking immediate change and a process of forced accountability on those responsible for not performing their duties to the best of their abilities.

I believe nobody wants to remove a half of a tumor,the people want these problems their country suffers from gone forever not just in remission waiting to strike again later.

This is the reality of today and based on that this is the future of tomorrow,participate or observe but change is upon us and we must all make a choice.Because we all share the same sun.

Originally posted by mishigas
reply to post by newcovenant

 

reply to post by SkepticOverlord

"I believe that entitlements for those in need should be a basic right of citizenship."

This is difficult to answer because I agree there should be some entitlements for those in need but to claim them as a right to citizenship is a bit too much. You cannot have rights that take from anyone else and I am a liberal Democrat saying that. As citizens, we have rights - as a country, we have aspirations and principles.

I had the same problem with this question, and I am a conservative Independent. And, I had the same problem with the "right to a college education" question, for the same reason. Which tells us...what? That we need to agree on what are considered as "rights" before we'll be able to make progress.

edit on 8-10-2011 by mishigas because: (no reason given)

Absolutely right. This would be a good first step. With regard to education I think of Costa Rica whose people enjoy a 91 percent literacy rate. All education is free and a college education cost $200 dollars. Do they like their people more? Why are we afraid of education or treat it like a privilege when it should be a priority? It should be a priority but again....I guess I would have to say neither do I consider it a right. It is a freedom.

I like this comment and how Iceland dealt with it.
They through the crooked bankers in jail and fired the government!

We are seeing wealth confiscation, no different than when FDR confiscated the gold from the American people to save the banks, only this time, done in a covert way to trick Americans into thinking it was their own fault they lost their homes. But again, this was the result of official US policy which gave tax credits to corporations that actually encouraged offshoring of American jobs. In short, the US Government took their jobs to make it easer for the banks to take their homes, to save themselves from going to prison over the mortgage-backed securities fraud.Iceland had the right solution. They tossed the crooked bankers in jail and fired the government that tried to loot the people to save those bankers and Iceland's economy is already on the rise. (Which is why you don't see much mention of them any more in the American media)That is it in a nutshell!

english.aljazeera.net...

It is so sad that I have to get this info from overseas.

reply to post by SkepticOverlord

These questions did not give me the opportunity to express my real opinions on these matters.

Many tied responsibility with punishment. I believe that forced punishment destroys responsibility, and its continued use in the US and elsewhere has hastened the moral decay of the planet. The more a society punishes "wrongdoers" the more it debases itself. But the protests themselves have not called for punishment, but rather for a true accounting. Its brighter minds realize that the enemy's central tactic is divide and conquer. And that division starts when some men are given license to exercise violence against other men.

What can these protests accomplish?

The ultimate effectiveness of protest has rarely been closely inspected.

Gandhi's movement in India helped win Indian self-rule. But the class differences that troubled him still exist. King's civil rights movement improved legal protections for people of color in the US. But huge inequalities still exist. Even the independence movement in America in the late 1700's failed to produce a society that could successfully protect itself from the rapacious agenda of the European royal families.

So ultimately, protest does not seem that effective. It serves to define, for the individuals involved, which side they choose to stand on. But no protest that I know of has ever confronted the true enemy. That enemy is too isolated, too protected, too remote, too private to be reached by us. To that enemy, the protests are just the next event to be "managed."

To achieve true change will require a real change in our tactics. It may, in the end, require a total spiritual and moral upgrade. If these protests are a part of that upgrade, then they may be more effective than most of us can currently imagine. But I would certainly not depend on these protests to accomplish that.

reply to post by l_e_cox


As more voices join the mix, this “leaderless” movement will begin to focus on key issues like reinstating Glass-Steagall. This would force banks function more like utilities (where they serve the public good) rather being credit-default-swap casinos driven by greed. In 1989, the Federal Reserve Board expanded the types of securities commercial banks could deal in to include debt and equity securities. In 1991, Congress rejected a bill to repeal 1933 law. Nevertheless, the Federal Reserve continued to chip away at it. The lust for banking largesse was just as wanton among Democrats as it was Republicans–and in 1999 repeal of the act was signed by Bill Clinton. If you’re looking for a major cause of the current banking meltdown, look no further.

The “Occupy Wall Street” protesters have targeted the Federal Reserve as one of their central platforms from the very start. One organizer, known only as “Anonymous A99,” announced the first operation targeting the FED, called “Operation Empire State Rebellion,” on March 12. The announcement explained that the movement was intended to be a “decentralized non-violent resistance movement.” Anonymous A99 said of the intent of the organizers, and I quote:

“Above all, we aim to break up the global banking cartel centered at the Federal Reserve, International Monetary Fund, Bank of International Settlement and World Bank. We demand that the primary dealers within the Federal Reserve banking system be broken up and held accountable for rigging markets and destroying the global economy, effective immediately. As a first sign of good faith, we demand Ben Bernanke step down as Federal Reserve chairman. Until our demands are met and a rule of law is restored, we will engage in a relentless campaign of non-violent, peaceful, civil disobedience.”

Like others people worldwide who are disillusioned with their governments, we are seeing a global insurrection against banker occupation. It started in Iceland, moved to Egypt and then the “PIGS” (Portugal, Ireland, Greece, and Spain) now the chickens are coming home to roost. This anger against the “money junkies” and their undue influence in our political system has been brewing for years, and it is not doing to dissipate like vapor anytime soon.

I am very confused about all of this. It's like socialists hijacked anon and turned their focus against free markets and capitalism, or something

Occupy FED, sure, Occupy congress, sure, they make policy. Wall Street however is just a medium.

Walll Street is Cointelpro

[Editor's Note: The "tell" is the publicity this is getting from the TV Networks who spin it as the Democratic Party equivalent of the Tea Party.]

I've been thinking that....and many others have pondered the creators and driving force behind "Occupy Wallstreet".

I still am confused as to exactly why this option in thought wasn't offered.
A quick look at the posts tells me that I seem to be the ONLY person on this website who thinks this protest is controlled opposition. How intriguing.

People are so excited because the politicians, George Soros, Obama, Kucinich etc are supporting and joining them....um, red flag!

Unless there is true sacrifice the movement will continue to falter.

If protesting alone were enough there would be protests all the time. But if people die for the cause it will gain traction and true reform will happen.

Not saying I want violence and bloodshed, just that without it no real change will take place.

Originally posted by Oscillator
I am very confused about all of this. It's like socialists hijacked anon and turned their focus against free markets and capitalism, or something

Occupy FED, sure, Occupy congress, sure, they make policy. Wall Street however is just a medium.

Given that the companies on Wall Street control the federal reserve, congress and pretty much the entire government, you can't really call them the "medium"...they are more like a puppet master

Of Course the protesters edit the videos. All these Cop vids you NEVER see the person harassing the cops or coming at the Cops. These protest WILL become violent just like in Europe. Thats what George Soros and these people want. if riots and all that break out it might cause marital law and suspend elections in 2012.

Originally posted by nenothtu

Originally posted by VitriolAndAngst

If you want 100% purity and fairness from the other side, before the Robber Barons make nice -- good luck with that. But it seems you expect more integrity from the OWS movement than from the people who you inadvertently defend by criticizing such peccadillos.

We expect integrity from those claiming to be fighting for... integrity. If they can't even uphold their own alleged ideals amongst themselves, what can the rest of us reasonably expect at their hands?

It appears they just want to replace one set of corrupt master with... another set of corrupt masters. where is the net gain there?

Wow. The 99% group is upset about corruption and a rigged system.
Your complaints about the OWS movement, are based on people with iPods -- this is hypocrisy?

So we cannot deal with the criminality of Wall Street if we use an imported product? We could buy American iPods - if they were made here.

Your ideals that "OWS" people need to uphold -- seem to be based on OLD arguments. I've seen this "not worthy to criticize" argument on BP oil spills -- because people are supposed to NOT drive to work in order to get alternative energy. We cannot stop wars in Iraq -- because somehow, we are not worthy of peace.

It seems to me, that your logic dictates that in order to stop Banks from using derivatives on their sub-prime mortgages, poor minorities are supposed to NOT want to live in homes -- all corruption, or alleged corruption of the people without the power, must be REMOVED before anyone with power can be held accountable.

So this means NO STANDARDS for people with million dollar paychecks need be upheld.

When Al Gore pointed out that the US had too large a carbon footprint and that the climatologists were saying the planet was likely going to warm -- the DISCUSSION was about Al Gore flying airplanes. Wether or not the person bringing the message can walk on water and heal the sick has no bearing on the validity of the problem being brought forth -- or at least it shouldn't.

Now we've got the Media pushing the meme that the protestors on Wall Street are vague, and don't know how to solve the problem -- without actually ASKING people who can could explain it to them -- as if they weren't strenuously ignoring the real problems throughout our country for decades because they work for advertisers to sell products.

The "Solution" does not require the END of business -- it is merely demanding standards. Raising taxes to Clinton era levels is still lower than Reagan era levels -- and THIS is not some radical Communist agenda. We are involved in two, maybe four wars depending on how much bombing constitutes a war -- and our Revenue has been shrinking. More and more "corporate" money, is sheltered and moved offshore to escape taxes. The Rich pay less of a percentage -- and even THAT measure is off, because the connected rich have lots of profits in unlisted bank accounts that aren't in the equation.

If the protestors are calling family members on iPhones -- then are we being haters of their wealth? If they have no money and don't have a bath -- then the complaint is that these are dirty hippies without anything better to do -- which is kind of the problem people are complaining about.

>> As I mentioned: I totally anticipate this kind of criticism -- it's ALWAYS leveled at the people challenging the status quo. The Vietnam protestors were ridiculed until they caused too much interruption of profits. The Vietnam war was never a "good idea" or a productive use of our country's wealth -- it was plunder.

Communist China exports products to WalMart -- did we defeat something with war or did they WIN something by taking advantage of greed?

The OWS isn't getting started by a think-tank. It isn't about someone trying to make a buck. It is about people fed up with the status quo that is making them miserable and bankrupt while corporations and banks have record profits. Unless money goes to working people -- there is no reason for banks to lend and their is no "marketplace" that is going to grow jobs. The ONLY way we can solve the problem is to change the rules --- merely reversing what the lobbyists did to screw up the system in the first place. They changed the rules to help themselves -- and that is fundamentally the entire problem.

Wars are not defending Americans -- it's impoverishing us. Those who benefitted did not pay. Nor did the gambling banks pay. But now we are discussing "trimming" Social Security.

Regardless of your ridicule -- this movement is going to grow, because more and more of us "don't have anything better to do."

>> Last month, my water got shut off due to my lack of funds. So I'm a guy with a laptop who might be a little dirty. I suppose I've got to give up my car, the asian electronics in my work machine -- and live the life of a hermit. Of course, CNN would still ignore me.

reply to post by VitriolAndAngst

Wow. The 99% group is upset about corruption and a rigged system.

There is no "99%", It's a false dichotomy set up to incite class warfare and sucker people into a "collective". Congrats on the class warfare - it's coming. I'm neither in your "99%" nor your "1%", I'm in none of the collectives or categories you're trying to use to divide people up.

Your complaints about the OWS movement, are based on people with iPods -- this is hypocrisy?

No. A dictionary would probably help you here. The hypocrisy is in the OWS bitching and whining about "corporations", and doing it on corporate made products.

Your ideals that "OWS" people need to uphold -- seem to be based on OLD arguments.

What can I say? I'm an OLD guy. I spent my youth fighting collectivists, and it looks like I'll go to my grave doing the same. So be it.

It seems to me, that your logic dictates that in order to stop Banks from using derivatives on their sub-prime mortgages, poor minorities are supposed to NOT want to live in homes

Use your head for something besides a place to lay your hat. NO ONE, minority or not, should buy more house than they can afford. Derivatives and bank malfeasance are an entirely separate issue, not concantenated as you are implying. If you buy more than you can pay for, expect it to get taken away.

People give up all their money and then some, more than they have to begin with, then bitch and whine because someone else has it? Here's an idea: DON'T GIVE IT TO THEM TO BEGIN WITH! I know, it's a novel approach, but it has worked for me.

The OWS isn't getting started by a think-tank. It isn't about someone trying to make a buck.

You keep telling yourself that. Meanwhile, I'm going to be filling sand bags.

Regardless of your ridicule -- this movement is going to grow, because more and more of us "don't have anything better to do."

That's probably the gospel truth - which is why I'm filling sand bags. When they come for mine, they can take it off my corpse.

>> Last month, my water got shut off due to my lack of funds. So I'm a guy with a laptop who might be a little dirty. I suppose I've got to give up my car, the asian electronics in my work machine -- and live the life of a hermit. Of course, CNN would still ignore me.

You've got internet, but no WATER? I'm pretty sure you've got no place instructing ME in priorities.

reply to post by SkepticOverlord


ROME -- Italian riot police fired tear gas and water cannons Saturday in Rome as violent protesters hijacked a peaceful demonstration against corporate greed, smashing bank windows, torching cars and hurling bottles.

Elsewhere, hundreds of thousands nicknamed "the indignant" marched without incident in cities across Europe as the Occupy Wall Street protests linked up with long-running demonstrations against European governments' austerity measures.

Heavy smoke billowed in downtown Rome as a small group broke away and wreaked havoc in clashes that left about two dozen injured.

Riot police charged the protesters repeatedly, firing water cannons and tear gas.

Around 70 people were injured, according to news reports.

Some activists turned against the violent group, trying to stop them and shouting, "Enough!" and "Shame!"

Rome Mayor Gianni Alemanno blamed the violence on "a few thousand thugs ... who infiltrated the demonstration."

Elsewhere, bright autumn sunshine and a social media campaign brought out thousands across Europe.

In Spain, the Indignant Movement held evening marches Saturday that converged on Madrid's Puerta del Sol plaza.

Protesters pushed against police lines in Lisbon, Portugal, but officers stopped them from storming parliament.

WikiLeaks founder Julian Assange spoke to protesters outside St. Paul's Cathedral in London, calling the international banking system a "recipient of corrupt money."

Germany, France, Greece, Canada, African nations, Australia, Japan and the Philippines, as well as other countries, also saw protests Saturday.

The OWS is a blanket protest. It has spread, to Australia and England. I hope it continues.

What is the message? Is there one?

Yes, it's about the uselessness of government in serving the needs of the people. Our governments are so far from the people, the world over, that we seriously need to address the shortcomings.

This is what this is about.

Originally posted by Druid42
The OWS is a blanket protest. It has spread, to Australia and England. I hope it continues.

What is the message? Is there one?

Yes, it's about the uselessness of government in serving the needs of the people. Our governments are so far from the people, the world over, that we seriously need to address the shortcomings.

This is what this is about.

Of COURSE governments are useless in "serving the needs of the people". They aren't there to serve your needs, they are there to govern. Do they not teach civics and government in high school any more?

It's a government for crying out loud, not a 7-11!

reply to post by nenothtu


I was thinking of a response -- but you don't seem to "get it".

If you think the economic crisis was about Mortgage defaults (which totaled about $65 Billion) than you still haven't learned to follow the money. The banks were NOT HURT in this economic crisis that they caused by speculating with money -- the mortgage problems were merely the "horse they bet on" -- meanwhile, AIG took the Private Mortgage Insurance and bet that, Moodys and Hoovers -- who took the once government job of bond rating -- rating all their consulting clients as AAA (which made more money, of course, than rating bonds). The entire mess was greed and corruption. Meanwhile, they've fast-tracked foreclosures -- even when they can't find the title to the mortgage. They take advantage of poor people without the resources to contest this scam -- and they don't even KNOW WHO OWNS THE HOUSE. People who understand this, know how the banks knew that these people were getting high interest loans they couldn't repay, and they horse-traded the mortgage. They got around REAL PROTECTIONS, by doing these loans at small outfits and those would quickly be sold to the larger banks -- who would be required to not give sub-prime loans to most of these borrowers.

Now we've got banks parking their 0 interest loans on at the Fed and getting money for it, and not lending.

You can fill all the sandbags you want -- but it would be great if the "get off my lawn types" out there, who still blame POOR PEOPLE for getting ripped off, had a solution. If you understood mortgages, you'd know that PMI covers the bank -- so what was the problem when a bank has a high rate of return, gets 80% of the "money at risk" back, and even gets to resell a home in the bargain?

Seriously, who here is using their head for a hat rack? The banks were NOT injured by the mortgages -- they were "chumped" by speculating in the Credit Default Market -- which is why it was called a Ponzi Scheme. Of course, it seems to be the best kept secret, right in plain sight.

>> Of course, we HAVE a solution -- and that is, get the money out of politics, re-instate Glass/Stegal act, get better oversight on Wall Street and don't allow any financial transactions that require a PhD. Before the bottom fell out -- 40% of all corporate profits were made on Wall Street. That's a business that doesn't make Solar Panels or even flip burgers -- it flips "financial instruments" and puts the risk on the taxpayer.

The people confused about the OWS movement, have been eating the corporate PR for some time. You idea that people "enjoy the fruits of corporations" so they cannot criticize corruption can only be non-hypocrites if they are Luddites is truly, epic. Calling for justice is apparently Communism. Calling for a rollback in tax giveaways is Socialism. If you read the Declaration of Independence -- without the title, you'd probably think that was a Marxist manifesto as well.

I could spend a lot of time debunking the oft repeated "Neocon Meme" about the nonsense that banks were forced to give loans to minorities who couldn't pay them back, or talk about Fannie and Freddie -- but it's silly, because people who keep repeating this, still listen to news agencies who lie to them on a daily basis. If you still think POOR PEOPLE somehow run things and still get no money -- wow. That's right up there with an idea like; "war helps our economy." Not mine, not yours, not the people being bombed -- but it does help the contractors and war business.

I don't bother mentioning that using war for our economy, is about a lacking in morals as one can get -- but that's explaining rainbows to dogs. So I have to say why being evil is economically stupid -- that's the country we live in today. The people who Claim America is great and blameless, stand against everything that makes it good.

It's really great to see the OWS movement taking off -- because it doesn't matter that this country is CHOCK FULL of Fox News viewers who won't "get it" until Global Warming brings the tide up to their ankles, or they get thrown out on the street because it's THEIR TURN.

Don't worry -- when we fix things, we'll even look out for the people who were wrong about everything.