Video of Michael Hess trapped in WTC7, before it collapsed due to "fire"

reply to post by skunkmunky


So... your argument is that his testimony feels better than the rest? It gives you that feeling in your "gut" that it is true and good?

I know probably around thirty other people who would swear up and down in a similar manner. Know what they are? Mormons.

It's not about whether it is actually more or less valid. It is about how much you personally want to believe one over another. The fact of the matter is that the only logical explanation is for the North tower debris to have hit WTC 7 while they were in the stairwell. After all, the power was out when Jennings tried to take the elevator down. Power didn't go out until the South tower collapsed, so already Barry's testimony about both towers still standing is in question.

reply to post by Varemia


With all due respect, you've used a shed-load of words to say nothing of use or value to this thread.

I do not find comfort in one story over another, however I'll forgive your freudian projection, as it's evidenty that you may feel this way.

Nor is my thread about which eye witness account "it is actually more or less valid."

My point is this, they both had the EXACT same story on the day. Barry NEVER changed his account of what he experienced. He unequivically stated that the explosion that trapped them in the building occured before EITHER TOWER had fallen. They were both trapped when each building fell.

If Mr Hess hadn't changed his account, then I'd have no basis for suspicion, however Mr Hess CHANGED his account, which makes one of them a liar.

Originally posted by Trexter Ziam

Leukemia isn't heart disease.
One of the sons DID want to talk; but, nobody would listen.

You've been suckered by the crap those damned fool conspiracy web sites are shoveling out again. Barry Jennings' son's name is Jarel, not "Barry Jr."

I find it incredible that real live eyewitnesses with real live identities (and in some cases, easily available email addresses and telephone numbers) are always brushed of as "secret agents spreading disiformation" but anonymous posters on the internet pretenting to be people they're not are "absolutely believable". If you're attempting to say you're NOT judging everything according to whether or not they're agreeing with your conspiracy claims, you're lying through your teeth.

Originally posted by skunkmunky
reply to post by GoodOlDave

 

Your avatar and signature clearly indicate that you are more interested in peddling your one sided opinions, rather than healthy debate, however I will skip over your wild speculation and endevour to answer your direct questions.

...and despite my "wild speculation", I notice you cannot even begin to argue against it. I can only wonder if your terminology of "wild speculation" is just your way of brushign off anything you don't want to be true.

He was willing to go on record as having doubts about the official story and the events of that day. He went on record with his account, as he believed in truth and honesty and niavely hoped that his nation may also be of a similair disposition.

If memory serves, the BBC picked up his story from Loose Change and they went to interview him as well, and Jennings backpeddled on a lot of things he said, such as the "stepping over bodies" claim. Dylan Avery had to repost Jennings' testimony to defend themselves against claims they made everything up.

As there isn't a single record of a single person losing his life at WTC 7, I'm inclined to believe it was his own embellishment. I can absolutely tell you that Jennings never in his wildest dreams imagined his statement was going to be played and replayed by the truther hoping to find secret menaings in his words.

Infact, in a previous reply, I specifically asked we negate all other aspects of this day in hope that we maybe able to focus and debate how Mr Hess changed his story to fall inline with the official story and the implications of this change, however Mr Jennings account never changed. Not once.

All right, fair enough. I will ask the same thing I asked in my own previous reply- where exactly does Ms. Hess "change his story"? The only thing I'm seeing is that he's acknowledging the explosion he felt was actually the impact of the wreckage from the north tower. The only obfuscation I'm seeing here is coming from you, because you're the one who's making the claim that every big bang accompanying tremors needs to be from explosives, which I suppose is understandable as I'll wager you've never been in a skyscraper that had another skyscraper fall on it.

It's also incorrect to say "Berry Jennings never changed his story" as he passed away before the NIST report came out and never had the chance to acknowledge it was the impact from the wreckage from the north tower, either.

Originally posted by skunkmunky
My point is this, they both had the EXACT same story on the day. Barry NEVER changed his account of what he experienced. He unequivically stated that the explosion that trapped them in the building occured before EITHER TOWER had fallen. They were both trapped when each building fell.

Answer me this, then. Were there windows in the staircase? Which side of the building were they on when they were on the upper floors? Were they facing the towers, or were they facing North?

If you can't answer this, then you can't be certain that he knew the towers were still standing. Anyway, I'm going through everything Barry Jennings said now...

Ok, during my search, I ended up stumbling upon Hess's testimony as well. Honestly, both their stories make sense. Thing is, Hess actually tells you which direction they were facing. He said they were facing North/Northwest.

Also, it appears there may not have been any windows on the 23rd floor, so they couldn't see the towers from there either.

Honestly, when you combine both your testimonies, it sounds like the WTC tower collapse is what caused the "explosion."

Jennings:
www.youtube.com...

Hess:
www.youtube.com...

Hess:
www.youtube.com...

OEM stuff (23rd floor info):
www.youtube.com...

Nothing I'm finding seems to support the idea that the towers were still standing when the explosion happened in Jennings' testimony. Hess's is far more detailed and describes the type of environment that you would expect to see after the collapse. If you notice, Jennings only seemed to think that the towers collapsed afterward because the firefighters came and went a couple times. He didn't describe a dust cloud at any point. Isn't that odd?

How about supplying the entire interview link,

www.youtube.com...

He is clear and concise in stating when they were trapped, they were expecting the Firemen to come to ther immediate aid and was initially confused why they dissappeared. When they returned, he concluded they fled as the one of the towers fell, just as they fled when the second tower fell.

The video I provided at the beginning shows the broken window and Mr Hess calling out to be rescued.

www.youtube.com...

Your doing a good job of brushing over the main point on this entire thread. Mr Hess changed his account of events shortly before the NIST report was released. If his story had remained the same, there would be no reason for speculation.

Mr Hess changed his story SIGNIFICANTLY enough to mean one of these two men is lying.

Barry NEVER changed his story about the explosion that trapped them in the building and subsequent further explosions.

P.s GoodOlDave - Maybe I wasn't clear enough before. It's abundantly obvious that you are an adamant believer of the official story.

As much as you and several others on here are interested in convincing me and others like me that your beliefs are the truth, the only truth and any other truths are false truths, it's akin to religionism

As I'm not interested in being ingratiated into either camp truther or camp believer, I have nothing to gain from engaging you other than a massive head-ache.

reply to post by skunkmunky


So... the fact that there should have been a massive dust cloud means nothing? Gosh, you guys and your facts...

reply to post by skunkmunky
What a sad situation,this is a classic example of nice guys finishing last,or dead in this case.

reply to post by skunkmunky


Here is building plan of WTC 7 showing damage to the structure

Structural damage occurred to the southwest corner between Floors 7 and 17 and on the south face between Floor 44 and the roof; other possible structural damage includes a large vertical gash near the center of the south face between Floors 24 and 41

Barry Jennings survived his government's 9/11 false flag,

but one word he mentioned (bomb) was enuf to take him out.

RIP all victims of USA atrocities!!!


obviously bombs went off and bodies everywhere in bldg 7 before decision was made for it to 'come down due to fire'



ps - federal witness program took him down! (more wolf in sheep clothin)

Originally posted by thedman
reply to post by skunkmunky

 

Here is building plan of WTC 7 showing damage to the structure

Structural damage occurred to the southwest corner between Floors 7 and 17 and on the south face between Floor 44 and the roof; other possible structural damage includes a large vertical gash near the center of the south face between Floors 24 and 41

Firstly, we're not talking about how the building came down. We're talking about how the last two people in WTC7 had the same story to begin with, then much later, one of them change their story enough to contradict the other.

This means one of them is lying.

Varemia - Your line of questioning is unclear. Please clarify what your asking and I'll happily debate further.

Barry Jennings was rushed into the 'Federal Witness Program" who gave him a choice to train in what to say he 'experienced' or tell the truth, and die. apparently, BJ was an honest african-american Abe and died for it!

the white dude Mike Hess that looks like an undercover cia/elite anyways, chose to train to lie in order to save his puny life, in face of all barring justice for the other nearly 3,000 victims, may God rest their souls as NWO elite 'martyrs'.

compare BJ's testimonial full of experience and raw emotion, to Mike Hess's interview. Mike Hess has obviously been trained and rehearsed to say:



also look at the body language, Mike Hess is saying somethings he did not experience first hand but was told to say. in any case its interesting maybe some of what he experienced is coming out (just not enuf to be killed for like BJ) and its being identified as possible DEW (Directed Energy Weapons)

Originally posted by ignant
Barry Jennings was rushed into the 'Federal Witness Program" who gave him a choice to train in what to say he 'experienced' or tell the truth, and die. apparently, BJ was an honest african-american Abe and died for it!

the white dude Mike Hess that looks like an undercover cia/elite anyways, chose to train to lie in order to save his puny life, in face of all barring justice for the other nearly 3,000 victims, may God rest their souls as NWO elite 'martyrs'.

compare BJ's testimonial full of experience and raw emotion, to Mike Hess's interview. Mike Hess has obviously been trained and rehearsed to say:

also look at the body language, Mike Hess is saying somethings he did not experience first hand but was told to say. in any case its interesting maybe some of what he experienced is coming out (just not enuf to be killed for like BJ) and its being identified as possible DEW (Directed Energy Weapons)

I've just shown that video to my girlfriend and she's just said something very similar.

"He tells a lovely story. It comes across as a well versed tale. I wish I had a blankie and a warm cup of cocoa"

I concur that not only did Barry never change his story, but he told it with compassion and emotion and a genuine sense of curiosity and intruege.

Someone also mentioned on my other thread about who is expendable, and that got me thinking about the video I provided in my intital post.



When it comes to emergency radio communications, I'd have thought how many individuals to be rescued and their location would be of utmost importance, keeping irrelevent details to a minimum.

So, why in this case is, the name and job title of someone to be rescued broadcast first?

reply to post by skunkmunky


Would you mind linking to Hess's original words on the incident? I keep reading you claiming he changed his story, but I haven't seen the sauce (evidence).

Originally posted by Varemia
reply to post by skunkmunky

 

Would you mind linking to Hess's original words on the incident? I keep reading you claiming he changed his story, but I haven't seen the sauce (evidence).

Hehe, seen the sauce. You meant source, and ofcourse I'll give you the link again.

www.youtube.com...

This account is pretty much identical to Barrys account just after being rescued and if he hadn't gone on to make the following announcement for the BBC, then I would have no reason to suspect Mr Hess at all.

www.bbc.co.uk...

Originally posted by skunkmunky
Hehe, seen the sauce. You meant source, and ofcourse I'll give you the link again.

www.youtube.com...

This account is pretty much identical to Barrys account just after being rescued and if he hadn't gone on to make the following announcement for the BBC, then I would have no reason to suspect Mr Hess at all.

www.bbc.co.uk...

Thanks for that. Yeah, I was using sauce as a humorous slang for source/evidence.

Anyway, I'm not exactly seeing the discrepancy in stories. In what you posted, Hess states that they went down the stairs after the power went out, got to the 6th floor and were stopped by an explosion, surrounded by smoke for the next hour/half. In the BBC one, he said that the emergency lights went out when they got to the sixth floor, the building shook, the stairway collapsed beneath them, and smoke/stuff filled the room + sprinklers. He even says that at the time he thought it was an explosion on the lower floors, just like Jennings said.

He then elaborates on the window they broke and the direction they were facing, away from the towers, with papers and dust flying past them.

Ok, now I see one main difference between his and Jenning's testimonies.

Hess says that they ran into a wall at the sixth floor while Jenning says that the floor fell out beneath him (though both of them admit that it was pitch black as soon as it happened because the lights went out. Perhaps it is a matter of opinion/perspective.)

reply to post by Varemia


I liked it, it made me smile. The inferrence that youtube videos are like ketchup.
Infact, get on the Dragons Den (or what-ever the American equivelent is) and see if you can get an investment for your new product "Youtube Sauce"

Yeah, now yer getting more of my drift. It's the fact that their eye-witness accounts were pretty much the same on the day and afterwards, Barry never changed a single word of his account, however Mr Hess did, significantly enought to differ from Barrys account.

Couple that with the speculation that his BBC interview looks rather well rehearsed, emotionless and more dodgy than a 17 dollar bill and you've got enough basis for relevent suspicion.

reply to post by skunkmunky


Hm, well 7 years after the fact, I imagine that you would have gone over the day about a hundred times and gotten over some of the emotional bias. Also, certain details would be muddied due to the sheer amount of time. The human mind is well known for fabricating details as time passes in order to best fit with your understanding of what happened.

Thing is, Hess's testimony from the day didn't change much, since his day-of words were so short. There was little to no detail to compare with Jennings' story.

I don't generally agree with Dave on many things, but I'm in agreement with him on this.

I have never believed much of Barry Jennings story. I need help from a mod to know if I can post content here that I posted on another forum years ago, but it deals with aspects of Jennings' story that I believe to be false.

If I can post the information here that I posted on the other forum then I'll create a post with everything I wrote in that. To be honest, even if I can post it, much of the language I used on that forum would probably get people banned on this one, but it is, at least in my opinion, and important part of the overall story and I can redact the potentially offensive language if needed.

So, if a mod is following this thread, and can message me on whether I can post that information it would be much appreciated.

Originally posted by ThaLoccster
I don't generally agree with Dave on many things, but I'm in agreement with him on this.

I have never believed much of Barry Jennings story. I need help from a mod to know if I can post content here that I posted on another forum years ago, but it deals with aspects of Jennings' story that I believe to be false.

If I can post the information here that I posted on the other forum then I'll create a post with everything I wrote in that. To be honest, even if I can post it, much of the language I used on that forum would probably get people banned on this one, but it is, at least in my opinion, and important part of the overall story and I can redact the potentially offensive language if needed.

So, if a mod is following this thread, and can message me on whether I can post that information it would be much appreciated.

Hi there fella. .

Wouldn't it be more prudent to enquire if the person starting this thread would mind, rather than asking permission from a moderator (or have I missed something)?

I've said before, I'm wholeheartly up for health debate and welcome all level headed enquiries, theories and counter theories.
I'm just not interested cranial bashing on masonry with those that are adamant that one story is the absolute truth over another. As I said previously, it's akin to monotheistic religionism.

So, if you are willing to present your opinions with respect and an air of speculation, rather than an overwhelming sence of "I'm so correct that everyone else in the world has to be wrong and potentially subject to ridicule" (which is why I will not engage olDave any futher), then please join the debate and I look forward to your post.