It looks like you're using an Ad Blocker.

Please white-list or disable in your ad-blocking tool.

Thank you.


Some features of ATS will be disabled while you continue to use an ad-blocker.


Faith is NOT Meditating, faith is NOT introducing any change into the cycle

page: 1

log in


posted on Oct, 7 2011 @ 11:36 AM
Ok, ok. Before i get started let me start off by saying, yes i understand the implication of the word "is" into the title of my thread and the use of this word in my thread. Second, i do understand that reality is subjective, i personally believe that on a basic level, reality is a construct of the mind. Mind being subjective and not as predefined by whoever.

I started this thread because i see people with many preconceived notions of what their faith means to them or what faith is or can be to them and others around them. I started this thread because i wanted to make it clear what a true definition of faith is to me and how to see this. Well here goes nothing....

Faith is not change. By introducing change you do not have faith in your *creator*(Subjective relative to self). By introducing change into the cycle you are not accepting your current state of being. By introducing change into the cycle you do not have faith in yourself to be able to accept whatever circumstance that has brought you to this point of need or want to change. Need or want is not accepting the current version of reality and not having the gratitude or objective knowledge of lesson or experience(wisdom) to understand the greater whole of the experience.

Meditation is change. Meditation can be used as a tool of focus but the majority of the populace misunderstand the knowledge of meditation as a tool to promote "magic" or change within themselves as an act of not faith. By not accepting your current reality you are not accepting the wisdom of that reality.

By having want or need based decisions you step out of the realm of faith. Want and need is not acceptance. Gratitude of a current state of being is required in order to accept the wisdom of the experience or moment.

Trusting the cycle. Believe it or not the universe is perfect. Trust the inner workings of the universe. Trust yourself. Be great full and have gratitude for the opportunity to gain knowledge and wisdom from experience.

Well rant over. Probably missed some things but oh well.

posted on Oct, 7 2011 @ 12:27 PM
reply to post by onequestion

Thankyou forsharing

understandable that this philosophy of faith is one of acceptance rather than interferance in the creators cycles of creation...though two things come to mind immediately:
~one is that we are as much a part of the creators creation, as the creator is through us creating!
~two is that everything changes, and even the cycles of ages have new variance given new creations!


it may be easier for all to say that there are certain circumstances where faith requires of ones patience the acceptance of things; and on the other hand, there are those situations where the creators gift to us in creation as co-creators is to exercise this ability to bring about change - lets face it, would any change not be allowed by a creator giving freewill; and if with that, any undesired change would remain unfulfilled in the grand design!

example: if in a sinking raft, one attempts not to save one self to avoid change, one is still going to experience the change of floating to submerged - and if in the grand design, whether that person should float or sink, it will be so.
perhaps you will illuminate in this thread which examples of faith require acceptance, so we can all benefit.



posted on Oct, 7 2011 @ 12:36 PM
I have thought the same thing for a long time. Growing up my parents tried out many different religions and I myself attended religious school. After years of reading the bible and other religious texts I came to the reality that if you really have true faith you do not need to meditate or pray at all. True faith is knowing that it is already taken care of. Your path is set enjoy the ride.

posted on Oct, 7 2011 @ 12:48 PM
I absolutely agree with all that was just written. This moment is perfect, as was the last, as is the next, and that is irrefutable.

However, change itself is also perfect, and also inevitable. Change is simply part of the plan. And more than that, change IS the plan. The ability to affect one's mind to change, one's environment, one's situation and circumstance, is all part of the gift. It is the experiment.

One's faith relies on the future promise of change in all versions of faith. Whether it's ascension, trans-substantiation, assimilation, oneness, or nothingness, these are all goals of faith, and are all dependent on a change occurring.

The simple mechanics of this existence in our limited senses and dimensions allow us to change our circumstance to the degree to which we have control. The significant operator in that sentence in this context is ALLOW. It is allowed that we not be satisfied with what is, and it is also allowed that so much as we have some degree of control over what is, we can change it. Would we be given the ability to change our world without the necessity to change it? Would we have imagined for ourselves opposable thumbs did we not intend to use tools to change our environment and our way of living?

In our evolution as a species, there is much change over which we have no control. However, it has been our ability to change what we can that has made our evolution possible. Without that change, we as a species would have long since become extinct. Adaptation creates survivability in the physical world.

Complete acceptance is what occurs before change is possible. Acceptance of a problem gives rise to a solution. Should that solution involve change, so be it. There are many problems we must accept that simply have no solution. These are the problems for which total acceptance is the only solution. We poor humans too often cannot come to accept these problems that we cannot change and in our lack of acceptance, we find despair, depression, hopelessness, and grief. All unnecessary.

Change is a universal constant, and it's all good.

It's all good.

posted on Oct, 7 2011 @ 01:18 PM

Originally posted by onequestion
By not accepting your current reality you are not accepting the wisdom of that reality.

But by fully accepting it in faith of its purposeful validity, paradoxically, you're suddenly able to change it...

edit on 7-10-2011 by Skyfloating because: (no reason given)

posted on Oct, 7 2011 @ 01:28 PM
FAITH is the substance of things HOPED for, the evidence of things NOT SEEN! In other words, FAITH is BELIEVING in the IMPOSSIBLE! "We walk by FAITH and NOT by sight! And, without FAITH it is impossible to please HIM. (Heb 11:6)

"By FAITH Noah, being divinely warned of things not yet seen, moved with godly fear, prepared an ark for the saving of his household, by which he condemned the world and became heir of the righteousness which is ACCORDING TO FAITH." (Heb 11:7)

Try reading the book of Hebrews chapter 11...there's LOTS of TRUTHS regarding FAITH.

These days...people don't live BY FAITH. They don't believe in the impossible. They don't operate their lives with FAITH. They live in FEAR and believe NOTHING is possible!

And, just so you know....F.E.A.R. is the opposite of FAITH! This 'war on terror' (war on fear) is designed to keep you from believing! It's designed to SCARE you into submission! But God said: "Do NOT FEAR...nor be AFRAID"!

Remember: "The TRUTH shall set you free"!

posted on Oct, 7 2011 @ 01:38 PM
reply to post by onequestion

I disagree. As an evolutionary Christian mystic, for me, it's all about God's love as nurturing process of growth and transformation, provided we acknowledge that "faith" is only the first step in the process, step 2 being the willing acceptance of a radical, tranformative forgiveness, reintegrating all past experience and placing it, good and bad, in service to the process of what we are becoming, in Christ. Perhaps this is why Paul said that "faith without works is dead". Faith represents both acceptance of ourselves as we are, and the desire to become ever moreso that which we ought to be, as intended. Faith, real faith, is about untying the crippled man, straightening him out, and setting him free to walk home carrying the very bed he was bound to his entire life, up until that point. That's faith!

edit on 7-10-2011 by NewAgeMan because: word error

posted on Oct, 7 2011 @ 02:25 PM
reply to post by awake1234


I agree. I do understand the paradoxical nature of faith and that is something that i didn't touch on. A few more posters below also touched on this paradoxical nature of faith and i am still trying to understand it. I am unsure of this though....

Is having faith in yourself inevitable change, or am i SUPPOSE to change the inevitable?

posted on Oct, 7 2011 @ 02:31 PM
reply to post by NewAgeMan

By having faith and understand that unbound connectedness of yourself with a creator weather that be yourself or a creator wouldn't that imply that on some omnipresent level you have already taken care of yourself through means not subjective?

This is where i tend to disagree with the idea of change. If i truly have faith then i believe that that faith will unbound the limited restraints on my own personal connection with the creator or a creator or my inner self or whatever. By doing such i would seemingly have already taken care of myself through this act of faith because the creator would have already have had understood the inevitable change about to take place and the "need" for change would be taken care of.

I mean if you really get down to it this is kind of what heaven would be like.

posted on Oct, 7 2011 @ 02:43 PM
reply to post by onequestion

Originally posted by onequestion
reply to post by NewAgeMan

By having faith and understand that unbound connectedness of yourself with a creator weather that be yourself or a creator wouldn't that imply that on some omnipresent level you have already taken care of yourself through means not subjective?

Precisely! You're pretty smart!

Looks at the birds of the air, they neither labor nor spin yet God feeds them!

How much MORE then will God the heavenly father (first/last cause) take care of you, oh you of such little faith?!

Why worry then about what you will eat or how you shall dress? Life is more than food and the body more than clothing!

Let the troubles of today then be sufficient for the day, and let tomorrows concern take care of itself.

(might be a little off, as that was off the top of my head and I haven't actually read the Bible in ages)

Best Regards,


edit on 7-10-2011 by NewAgeMan because: (no reason given)

posted on Oct, 7 2011 @ 07:27 PM
I'm going to bottom line...because that is what I do....Faith is good...that being said... what your faith is in must come from within...not with- out! I'm not a big fan of seems like a lot of work....but if it so happens that I went on a short hike and sat by a babbling brook and contemplated things ...then I'm going to "feel the experience" take a moment and breathe it in. That is beauty...that is faith, that is connection to all there is...anything outside of just BS and giving yourself to a controlling my opinion!

posted on Oct, 8 2011 @ 08:56 AM
Are you not perhaps confusing faith with fatalism?

A key element of Christian prayer is this statement, addressed to God the Father: "Thy kingdom come, Thy will be done, on earth as it is in Heaven."

That is a prayer for change and the individual members of the Church, being joined together in and with the Body of Christ, are instruments, therefore, of change.

Healing is a good example... changing the sick, blind, crippled, and so on, to wholeness and health. Fatalism, however, would deny the need to act to heal-- whether by prayer, medicine, or any other means.

edit on 8-10-2011 by Frira because: typo

posted on Oct, 8 2011 @ 09:42 AM
Not sure how you are relating FAITH to meditating or cycles.

Faith is believing in the Highest Goodness and Love, God/Goodness, but whatever name you call this.

Meditating is done by people with faith, and athiests as well for its very good for you. Its a metaphysical tool, and it works.

Cycles can be highly debated as to what they mean, what they're about, and whether or not they are occurring with severity due to the positivity or negativity found in the people, as its an interactive school. Note higher grade students in Love dont get primitive cycle tests. Or, they don't experience any of it the same way.

We are all called to do the work we came to do and reach within ourselves to clean up our house/act and find our path.

posted on Oct, 8 2011 @ 09:54 AM
Faith means to have faith in 'one' self.
One self and that is all. That one self is happening now intelligently and if that is really known then that could look like faith because it is known that all is well and everything is being taken care of.

The word faith has been confused with belief. Having faith in what has been learned from others or believing in something is not really faith, it is belief. Hope is another word that has been confused with faith, this is fear driven, trying to get away from now.
The resistance to now is what causes the pain.

edit on 8-10-2011 by Itisnowagain because: (no reason given)

new topics

top topics


log in