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Why men are in trouble

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posted on Oct, 8 2011 @ 05:13 PM
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Originally posted by yourignoranceisbliss

When the average Feminist come to their senses, they will realize it was by Nature's Design, not our individual own, that Men were put in place of dominant sex on purpose. Domination is only a side-effect of Men being the more imposing sex, something Women don't seem to realize or understand.

edit on 8-10-2011 by yourignoranceisbliss because: (no reason given)


Or want?! Who wants to be dominated? Seriously?? Do you want to be dominated by someone bigger than you or would you fight to hold your own? It isn't about realizing or understanding, it's simply not wanting it. I don't want to be dominated by anyone, who on earth would want that anyway?




posted on Oct, 8 2011 @ 05:17 PM
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my take is very simple and holistic and explains everything and I hope the men and women here get it:

1. there has been an anti-men undertone for decades in this country. Women have had the women's lib movement...their breast cancer awareness has been elevated about all cancer killers, etc

2. Women have been rewarded with better and better real wages in the last decade..enough now that they actually make more money than comparable men in their situation when the data is looked at. So women the last few decades were encouraged to compete for jobs against their brothers, fathers, cousins, etc.

3. Millions of jobs have been outsourced overseas....thus reducing the ability for a generation of men to even get a decent job that pays the bills unless you are very mobile and have the connections. The jobs that one can do here...are either FULL of physical labor where you put your life in danger- or disposable. So men see other men do disposable jobs generation after generation ala firefighters..with nothing to show for it at the end. I give you 9-11..1000s of first responders f'd by the system, the EPA, etc.

4. **here's the kicker--- after all of these trends I believe are REAL in 1-3... many women still expect the man to be the breadwinner and pay for most things let alone the other "manly stuff". They are still at least subconsciously expected to be the Knight and WINNER who dominates out there for his family (at the same time the system teaches mean to be docile sheep and puts them into jail for almost everything except white collar crime)

Talk about PRESSURE to the max!- think about it. There is an emotional toll and no doubt many men just say f it---and don't wanna grow up..and many are doing that because they even see how their fathers and friends of their fathers are busted, broke, from the system since about the late 90s.

that's why the game has turned to white collar crime and creating bubbles and busts with the monetary system.
the Select few who rise to the top might have a chance there as so glamorously expressed in Wall St 1 and 2.

Men--- they can't win basically in a rigged system over the long term with so many contradictory vibrations from society.

And white men? forget it...they try and speak their minds and rationality about politics or freedom like a Ron Paul( which was the original tea party) and then the system/the major media..spins it as white man's burden nut job type of stuff



I'm sure many will try and argue what I have said here but I Know what I know. its basically true what I lay out here to the bone.
edit on 8-10-2011 by SuperTripps because: edit



posted on Oct, 8 2011 @ 05:21 PM
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Originally posted by jamesackerson

It is always black and white, it's just a persons "opinion" and "ASSumption's" that make it gray.. reality states otherwise, and as far as what I am, who I am, where I go, what I do, or anything about me, your shooting blanks into a dark room..

Women are ruled by emotions, men are rules by "common sense", hence neither parties are logically "capable" of being near each other in any amount of time (beyond what each one wants from each other at that moment) to state otherwise, is to "fool yourself" into believing differently, when the "reality" states otherwise..

No such thing as a "good person", only an individual that has yet to be on the receiving end of the hard, cold truth of "reality"...


LMAO Ok, Mr. Bitter! I'll have you know that males are not ruled by common sense, I know.. I live with five!! Men do things based in emotion all the time! Want to get laid?? That's hardly common sense, that's emotion... albeit very basic. Males are very much ruled by emotions, however the emotions are not the same as women's emotions. Anger for example is an emotion and males are very good at being overcome and letting anger rule their actions without logical thought processes. I have seen first hand how males are emotional, I see it on a daily basis.

Now I can respect your opinion, I do however disagree. I think most people are good, although selfish in nature. Reality is a funny thing though, it seems to change depending on who you speak to and what their experiences of that reality is. Almost makes solipsism seem possible.. almost!



posted on Oct, 8 2011 @ 05:22 PM
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Originally posted by MaMaa

Originally posted by yourignoranceisbliss

When the average Feminist come to their senses, they will realize it was by Nature's Design, not our individual own, that Men were put in place of dominant sex on purpose. Domination is only a side-effect of Men being the more imposing sex, something Women don't seem to realize or understand.

edit on 8-10-2011 by yourignoranceisbliss because: (no reason given)


Or want?! Who wants to be dominated? Seriously?? Do you want to be dominated by someone bigger than you or would you fight to hold your own? It isn't about realizing or understanding, it's simply not wanting it. I don't want to be dominated by anyone, who on earth would want that anyway?


That's because you are ruled by your emotions which are enraged at the thought of being dominated.

Logically, though, I think it's safe to assume that physically, Women are not in any place to dominate anyone.

So whether they want to dominate or don't want to dominate is irrelevant, when you are not on the dominating end.

Do you understand? I'm not asking you to accept being dominated. No one is. You can choose to live your life single for the rest of your life if you choose, that's your prerogative and you are entitled to that by the freedoms of this country (something Muslim women apparently don't understand about Western culture).

But when you figure out that you cannot avoid dealing with the opposite sex, you'll find that Men are dominating simply by their presence around Women.

The compulsion to protect a Woman. To support, to physically control, to lead etc etc. These are what Men are programmed to do, even before birth. Can Women possess these qualities? Sure, just as surely as you see flamingly flamboyant homosexual men, it's possible.

But apparently seeing this type of intrinsic behavior exist, even among wild animals in nature, is not enough to convince a Woman who is fueled by her emotions and not common sense or logic.

What I'm saying is this. Your intelligence is a hindrance in your acceptance of Males as a dominant sex. It's both a compliment and a burden for you, for you will not appreciate the benefit of being led by a Male, as opposed to a Female leading a Male.

*cough* yourignoranceisbliss

Unfortunately, as the intelligent minority, a smart Woman cannot truly expect ALL Women to refuse Domination by Men, because in reality, you know, the cold hard cruel and punishing reality that we live in, Men are given no humiliation (rather they are lauded and expected to) when they support a Woman financially or otherwise.

That's the truth. Who is humiliated when a Man is supported by a Woman? The Man is.

Who is humiliated when a Woman is supported by a Man? No one is, rather this is expected by the Woman, and is typically the sole reason the Woman is associating with the Man.
edit on 8-10-2011 by yourignoranceisbliss because: (no reason given)

edit on 8-10-2011 by yourignoranceisbliss because: (no reason given)



posted on Oct, 8 2011 @ 05:33 PM
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Well all those well educated will take a spouse one day.....not to worry brothers! Maybe it's time for a role reversal, like the 50's and earlier, but now men stay home and raise the kids and take care of the home. I'm not too proud and I would be AWESOME at it, except for the kids parts, I'm not a big fan.
Ladies? Any takers? I'm screwed.



posted on Oct, 8 2011 @ 05:35 PM
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The simple fact of the matter--as anyone will already know if they've had even trivial access to mass media over the past couple of decades--is that the smear campaign against men is nothing new. In televsion commercials, magazine articles, movies, books, etc., men have been repeatedly beaten down to the point that they feel terribly about themselves. In modern society, it is no longer acceptable to be proud to be a man or proud of other men; society has conditioned men to continually look for fault in themselves as well as other men.



posted on Oct, 8 2011 @ 05:38 PM
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Originally posted by Revolution9

Hey big boy, what is that comment all about.


It was a direct response to your comment suggesting that the only sort of "man" is a limp-wristed milquetoast sort of a guy, and your implications that male roles that have existed for thousands of years, fairly successfully or they would have been diluted far sooner, are somehow "Victorian". News flash - I'm way, WAY PRE-Victorian. You'll never catch me in one of those sissy starched collars they wore. The implication you make that any man who doesn't want to help the little missus pick out the color scheme for the wallpaper is somehow to be equated with a wife beater was excessively offensive.

I responded to that. Handle it.



You obviously like fighting,


"Fighting not good. Someone always get hurt". - Mr. Miyagi



you talk about it a lot.


More than any woman I know. it's mostly grunts and whistles though, so don't worry about it - you'll never get it deciphered.



I am saying that we don't have to conform to stereotypes and social engineering. I am proof of that. I don't want to be like you, understand? I want to be like me. You have nothing to teach me. May be I have nothing to teach you.


And I am saying that we don't have to conform to your modernistic stereotypes and modern version of social engineering. One is as bad as the other. I don't want to be like you, either, and the beauty of it is neither of us has to conform to the ideals of the other.

I may have something to "teach" you, but you'll never learn it, so I'll just go kill another wildebeest instead.



Your comment about me was badly put together and very unfair.


Indeed. Ponder that statement deeply. It came from your own mouth... er, fingers.



Expect a strong response when you dishonor me like that. Be a gentleMAN.


I can't. Gentlemen haven't yet been invented in my archaic era. I wouldn't wear those sissy starched collars anyhow,



posted on Oct, 8 2011 @ 05:44 PM
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Reply to SuperTripps

Supertripps.. I'm not really going to argue, I actually agree with some of what you say. And well.. since I'm bored on a saturday hanging out ..err read that hiding out in my bedroom avoiding the 5 males in my house.. I'm going to reply to your post!!



1. Yes you are right, there has been an anti men undertone for decades and before that there was an stupid woman undertone for even longer! But to be fair, two wrongs don't make a right.

2. Do women get better wages or the same? Is the work they do the same or do they deserve the pay they get? If you do the work and get paid for what you do then what's so wrong with that? PS.. I have never been awarded better pay, I think I did something wrong! LOL I'd compete for a job against my brother, but that's because I don't like him.
If I needed the job though why on earth should I not try for the job though? My brother is no more worthy than I am simply because he is male. Hell what if I needed it more than he did, he wouldn't think twice about competing against me for the job. I know that women used to get paid less than men for exactly the same work. I got paid 50 cents less an hour than a guy I used to work with years and years ago. He was lazy and stood around most of the day while I worked my ass off. Then the manager would come in and he would act busy and sometimes even take credit for work I did. I deserved more pay than he did, I did more work and I did it better. Damn me for being female anyways..

3. I completely agree, no arguments.

4. I agree that some women may expect that, no one is forcing a man to accept that sort of life. I joke that I keep hubby around to reach tall things, open jars and kill spiders. I could do it I suppose.. lol When I am done with the stay at home mom thing I would never expect my hubby to be the sole provider for me when I am as capable as he is of hard work.

Your right, it is an amazing amount of pressure and it isn't right! I do my best to educate my own four boys about choosing their lives wisely. To not just jump into something based on their hormones. To be wise, to think things through and first and foremost live their lives for themselves. We push education because it gives them options, we also push owning your own business and they see it as an example from hubby because we own our own successful business. We do our best to teach them personal responsibility in all areas, especially accepting personal responsibility for their success. Which means not being afraid of hard work and to not just fall into what feels easier. We put a lot of value on hard work because not everyone is naturally inclined. If you work hard you will become good at whatever your working hard at, this is what we teach. I think far too parents have high expectations of their boys these days. They gripe about the state of men in the world, yet they let their teenage boy sit around playing computer or video games all the time. Want them to be better men, put them to work, give them a goal to work towards, don't allow them to become the lazy men of the world. If you want men to be better then teach the boys to be better. Actually have expectations for them, rules, structure,ect.. because that is how their brain works.

I have no sympathy in many ways because the world becomes what it is based on the generations we raise. If you don't like the way it is done then all you can do it change how you personally do things. If you want your wife/significant other to stay home and raise the kids, then by all means go make more money so that they can stay home to do so. Take a second job or whatever needs to be done. I am willing to bet that a lot of moms would like to stay at home if they knew they could be financially secure. .. sorry getting off on a tangent there, my apologies.

For what it is worth there is a lot of pressure on girls now too because they know that there isn't going to be a man to support her. There won't be a man to be her knight in shining armor, she will have to rescue herself. There will not be financial security from a man so she has to do it for herself and lets face it, this world is a scary place when you have to face it on your own.



posted on Oct, 8 2011 @ 05:49 PM
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Originally posted by MaMaa

Don't paint men as some paragon of virtue done wrong by the evil liberated women of the world. Not only is that incorrect, it is ignorance!



Herein lies much wisdom. What sort of "man" lets women, whether evilly liberated or not, hold that much power over him so as to "keep him down"?

Seems to me that a man ought to be able to say "I go to my cave now. you come to cave, you stay here, makes no difference. You don't come, other woman will. Have a nice day."

Seriously, why let someone else hold that much power over yourself over a bit of different flesh that you'll fall all over yourself to somehow be something you are not?



posted on Oct, 8 2011 @ 05:58 PM
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When a woman gets in the White House, then I'll believe we're in trouble.

Until then, I'll be at the strip club enjoying myself.



posted on Oct, 8 2011 @ 06:01 PM
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Originally posted by jamesackerson

I have personally had women try to "hold back" their "garden valley" from me, in order to get me to do what they want, they use sex as a weapon, as a tool, and have no problem giving it out, if they are about to lose their home or livelihood, in times of crises (based on history no less) it has been shown, that women use sexual favors as a survival tool, they will immediately "put out" when its in their best interest, but when they believe they are holding enough cards, they then switch to "manipulation", to materialistic tactics, to increase their positions of material standing, their positions of "perceived" positions in a community



You know, I've had that experience too. I bet if the truth were told, most men have. Ain't it funny how they react when you say "Fine. keep it to yerself then. That one ain't lined with gold, and I know where there's another one just like it."?

If you want to see a woman get all sorts of spastic, just try that out some time when they pull that stunt. They'll call you everything from "faggot" to "beast" to "dog", and the whole time you can laugh, since you know they've suddenly gotten all sorts of insecure in their "abilities" and "power" when they have to resort to that...

You'll ALWAYS win that battle with that strategy, whether they cave in or not!



posted on Oct, 8 2011 @ 06:02 PM
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Originally posted by SeventhSeal
When a woman gets in the White House, then I'll believe we're in trouble.

Until then, I'll be at the strip club enjoying myself.


Dancing?

I kid I kid



posted on Oct, 8 2011 @ 06:03 PM
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Originally posted by SeventhSeal
When a woman gets in the White House, then I'll believe we're in trouble.

Until then, I'll be at the strip club enjoying myself.


Stop that.

If I keep finding myself in agreement with you, next thing you know I'll have to break down and buy you a beer or something!

That's what... stars two days running now from me to you? The world may actually BE coming to an end!



posted on Oct, 8 2011 @ 06:05 PM
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Originally posted by yourignoranceisbliss

Who is enraged? I am far from enraged, half asleep actually. LOL I agree and I don't know many women who want to dominate anyone.. although I hear there are fetishes.
I understand what your saying, but I do not think we are assigning the same meaning to the word. I have chosen to not be single, as a matter of a fact I'm happily married and have been for 17 years now.
I don't see protective as dominating though. I am fiercely protective of my children, it is instinctual. Just as my hubby is protective of me, hell even when we cross a road I notice he will walk on the side that the cars would be coming from.. LOL I think some people have a stronger need to lead or control than others, but I choose to not be around them. I find it interesting that you assume it brought me to rage, why would you think that? This is a logical conversation here, not an emotional one.

I'm hardly going to dumb myself down just so some ignoramus male can be physically controlling to fill his caveman instincts. LMAO I find most men are incapable of properly leading themselves anyways, let alone anyone else. Hubby and I have our own roles and we each control those aspects of things, it isn't about him leading or controlling anything but his own part in things. Just as I control my part and role in things. We both have our areas that are beneficial to the other person. There are things he does that I can not or choose not to do and vise versa. These are choices that we have made though. If I honestly felt as though I was being controlled in a relationship or that he felt he was somehow the head of everything, I would be quite happily single!

Another thing, yes it is embarrassing for me as a woman to be solely dependent on my husbands financial support. I will be quite happy when the boys are grown and I can go back into the working world and be able to add to our family financially as well.



posted on Oct, 8 2011 @ 06:07 PM
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Originally posted by SeventhSeal
When a woman gets in the White House, then I'll believe we're in trouble.

Until then, I'll be at the strip club enjoying myself.


Just a little heads up.. we already are in trouble, no need to wait for a woman to blame it on. LMAO



posted on Oct, 8 2011 @ 06:07 PM
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Women gnash their teeth, spit on and crush a man's soul whenever he acts like a man. Then they get lonely, lead a shallow, self-serving unfulfilled life, and in the end they wonder wonder where are all the "men" are, and no amount of tears or repentance will ever give them a man.

Story of the century.
edit on 8-10-2011 by SyphonX because: (no reason given)



posted on Oct, 8 2011 @ 06:08 PM
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Originally posted by MaMaa

As far as holding back their 'garden valley' as you put it.. well that's simply because women don't need or want it the same as men. Men will go after women because they want to get lucky, not because they like the woman.. they like what they will get from her. Women have learned to not just be used and abused over years and years of men only wanting one thing from them.



Baloney. They use it for "leverage" in "negotiations" to get stuff out of men. Why else would they get so spastic when that tactic fails?



posted on Oct, 8 2011 @ 06:14 PM
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Originally posted by nenothtu

Originally posted by MaMaa

As far as holding back their 'garden valley' as you put it.. well that's simply because women don't need or want it the same as men. Men will go after women because they want to get lucky, not because they like the woman.. they like what they will get from her. Women have learned to not just be used and abused over years and years of men only wanting one thing from them.



Baloney. They use it for "leverage" in "negotiations" to get stuff out of men. Why else would they get so spastic when that tactic fails?



Why on earth would I disagree with that? You say it like it's such a horrid thing. Think logically for a minute here. You have something that someone else wants, something you probably don't have as much interest in as they do, but they do however have something else that you would like. What do you do? You make a trade! Men use women for sex all the time, this is nothing new and it has happened since the beginning of time. Love them and leave them.. so women smarten up, realize the man only wants sex and uses it to her advantage to get something that she wants as equally as the man wants sex. It's a win win. It's just sex for crying out loud, it's not a multi million dollar deal being made.



posted on Oct, 8 2011 @ 06:32 PM
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reply to post by MaMaa
 


maa maa---

great response

my points I raise are how I see it and I believe its close to whats going on

regarding Men getting paid more than women...yes its been historically true...but the MAIN reason for that outside of CORP. Elite White Collar Jobs----its because of all the dangerous JOBS that Men take up. that is what i meant by disposable

men dominate the trash collection industry, the construction industry, the firefighter/police force industry, the window washer industry..You get the drift. obviously a job like that SHOULD pay more than a clerical ADMIN job that women in the PAST did do.

however, the data is SHOWING women are equal if not above in pay in many mainstream/mainline jobs available in the western hemisphere at least. its HARDLY like it used to be plus like i said many jobs for men are gone, outsourced, dislocated, etc from all the booms and busts and Competition from women for the same jobs

so you are right...the smart men end up realizing they got to game the system/play the game...or start their own business

as far as all these men letting their kids play video games I have no idea. doesn't the mom have a say too?

I will say young boys need stimulation, playing outside and getting hurt, etc. i see video games as just a safer outlet for that in many ways. yes there are bad side effects

the bottom line you create your own reality but in many ways the system is rigged. women need to awake to the reality I have laid out here and there understanding will help them get a mate much earlier than if they don't.

folks should focus on finding the right PARTNER from them...and to throw out useless myths like the princess stuff which most moms brainwash their little daughters with.

men and women are both precious!! MEN should not be treated like disposable play things than women can divorce and grab all their assets when it doesn't work out.

most men 18-40 in this country have no hope now...and are competing AGAIN with more women graduating daily..as well as baby boomers NOT retiring

women from 18-40 can keep on leaning on these crutches if their JOB search don't work out..and focus on getting married for financial stability...see the double standard?



posted on Oct, 8 2011 @ 06:35 PM
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reply to post by Partygirl
 


An entire article written by women? Sounds like feminism in action, see there are good men out there, we're just the ones who get discriminated for wearing glasses, for being smart, not having a desire to act as a neanderthal, maybe we're the ones who are bullied, or maybe we're just considered weird. I have no pity for women who date scumbags and complain afterwards, dating the good looking guy instead of the one who will treat her right. It's not us mens fault it's your fault for being so shallow. Naturally women make more money than men these days, women hold more power, just vanity holds an advantage here. I applied for a few days ago put in an application for their shipping dept., a pretty blond walks in I noticed she couldn't spell shipping right, on top of multiple errors just on the front page. I dressed professionally even though it's only shipping, neat app w/ god resume. Checked in yesterday and the job was taken. Heard from my friend who is the supervisor, she got the job. I've no idea why this is, maybe it's simply intellectual degeneration, or just simple shallowness. I'm wasting my time by even stating this.



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