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Can we stop calling Nibiru/Nemesis a hoax..? It is a hypothesis which is yet to be proven.

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posted on Oct, 9 2011 @ 03:40 PM
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it's not a serious theory. It's something that a bunch of gullible children, and doomsday cultist want to believe...



...........COUGH............... LIKE ELENIN................. COUGH
edit on 9-10-2011 by StarPeace because: (no reason given)




posted on Oct, 9 2011 @ 04:57 PM
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reply to post by mockrock
 


You hit what myself and others have said for a long time.

People call stuff like this a hoax but honestly, you can't call it that because we're discovering new things almost daily and while the Mayan "prophecy" people cling onto might not be accurate, who's to say there isn't actually something similar out there?

In fact, didn't they find a planet similar in a different solar system only this year?



posted on Oct, 9 2011 @ 07:04 PM
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reply to post by curious7
 



In fact, didn't they find a planet similar in a different solar system only this year?


A planet in another solar system is not a planet in this system. A comet is not a planet. An asteroid is not a planet. A hypothetical planet that never enters the inner solar system is completely different from an imaginary planet that enters the inner solar system every 3,600 years!



posted on Oct, 9 2011 @ 07:12 PM
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The claim that there is something we do not know does not override the facts that we do know.

Nibiru and Nemesis are demonstrably false.

Nibiru is fiction created by Sitchin. It has impossible properties.

Nemesis cannot exist because the properties it is assigned are not stable. The instability means that the reason for it cannot last for any length of time.

Nibiru was ahoax started by Sitchin. He faked translations. He goofed by suggesting Nibiru was a Sumerian word. He goofed by claiming astronomical observations by the Sumerians were discovered when they had not. He goofed by giving his fictional planet properties that are impossible.

The Mayan prophecy claims are frauds. They originated in modern times by New Agers in North America.



posted on Oct, 10 2011 @ 12:18 AM
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reply to post by stereologist
 


Not ONE time did EVER state our GOVERNMENT was involved in a "COVER UP" of this so-called Planet. YOU SAID it I did not. Which to me is similar to saying....what happened to our ecomony? "I don't know, but it wasn't the FEDERAL RESERVE or Bankers that did anything improper"!!...lol

Comical...I was actually defending "you"...but you can bet it will NOT happen AGAIN!!!
edit on 10-10-2011 by Angelicdefender2012 because: (no reason given)



posted on Oct, 10 2011 @ 12:31 AM
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reply to post by mockrock
 

No, it's a hoax. Sit down and have a big cup of warm milk. Calm down. It's not real It is a hoax. Stop believing
ATS as the truth.



posted on Oct, 10 2011 @ 09:32 AM
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reply to post by Angelicdefender2012
 



Not ONE time did EVER state our GOVERNMENT was involved in a "COVER UP" of this so-called Planet.


Here is what you said.

And we CERTAINLY can NOT trust our government to come clean and be honest for once!

Here is my reply.

To use the ludicrous claim suggesting government involvement is ridiculous.


If you want to complain that come clean does not imply concealment or cover up, then I feel free to complain that involvement does not mean cover up.


Comical...I was actually defending "you"...but you can bet it will NOT happen AGAIN!!!

When I say that the evidence is overwhelming against an unknown new planet sized mass in the solar system within 320AU of the Sun and you state the following:

there IS a possibility that this planet is REAL.

I'm suppose to believe that you are defending my position?

When I have made it clear that sink holes and animal die offs and the weather and sun dogs do not mean anything astronomical in many threads I do not think you are defending my position.

cheers



posted on Nov, 13 2011 @ 05:09 PM
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Ok, been following this whole Nibiru/Planet X theory all over the internet. Allot of the arguments for and against have made some very interesting points.
Do I think it is a possible? Yes
Do I think I know exactly what it is and what will happen in 2012? Of course not.
With allot of the recent discoveries in archeology, physics, and astronomy how can anyone be 100% sure of the anything concerning this subject.
Let's see we know that the Earth has experienced massive extinction level events in the past on more than one occasion. This is proven by fossil evidence.
Recent discoveries of large underwater structures along with the geological data that proves their age to be much greater than previously thought possible also bring up some rather interesting questions like just how accurate is radio carbon dating.
Several times in history man has thought that he knew certain facts: that the earth is flat or that the earth is the center of the universe, both of which have been proven wrong. And when these ideas were first discussed the general response was ridicule and persecution.
Every scientist has her/his personal theory on how or why certain extinction level events happened, asteroid/comet, massive global volcanic explosions, disease, and ice ages. And each one is positive that the reason they give could be the only answer. I think it is allot more complicated than that, it is a domino effect and all the factors given contributed to the end result.
Anyway back on the whole Planet X theory, if there is a large celestial body out there (not saying planet, sun/star, comet,) that has an elliptical orbit that brings it into our solar system or just close to it, there is no way to know for sure what the affects would be. I would think they would cause many possible hazards for life on Earth though.
Scientific discovery has a methodology to it that is pretty simple, form a hypothesis and then start testing it until you have conclusive confirmation of whether it is right or wrong.
As I see it there is enough evidence to suggest that there is a possible cyclic event that adversely affects our planet. What it is exactly I do not know. Planet X/Nibiru, Solar Flares, Polar Shift, and/or Comets any or all could be the cause. Do we have any human records of these events, hmmm, incomplete ancient texts of dead languages that have to be interpreted into modern language. The problem with this is context. Do we completely understand the context/perspective of all these texts, I seriously doubt it. Just pull out a dictionary and thesauruses and really consider how likely it is that the real meaning may have been lost in translation.
Anyway that is some of what passes through my head when I read about this subject. The fact that some of the sites I go to have 404 errors or the video/picture have been removed or blocked only supports the argument about a cover-up in my opinion.
Face it there is allot of info out here on the world wide web and allot of people with different perspectives, beliefs, and attitudes expressing them out here. Just try to keep an open mind and accept the fact that everyone has the right to disagree with you. Some will be extremely antagonistic while others will behave in a calm logical manner. I choose to ignore the antagonists.

Ok I am done. TY



posted on Nov, 13 2011 @ 06:08 PM
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reply to post by Agwolf
 


I agree with the recording of extinctions in the fossil record. I do not agree that there are large underwater structures that are man made. Those features are as natural as the hills in Bosnia that are being called pyramids.

The idea that the Earth was flat is very old. For thousands of years people have known that the Earth is not flat. A flat Earth is a typical approximation in many human endeavors. In small areas the Earth can be considered to be flat. It was people moving greater distances that showed that the Earth could not be flat. Even the Earth at the center of the universe is used in every day speech. We say the sun rises and the sun sets.We do not say that the Earth rotated to face the Sun or rotated to face away from the Sun. A geocentric concept of the universe is still a useful representation at times.

Very few scientists think that extinctions are single issue events. Most believe that there is a main cause that is associated with other causes.

But back to planet X. A large celestial object orbiting the Sun has 2 effects. One is it has gravity that affects the motions of other objects in the solar system. Two it reflects sunlight revealing itself. In the case of gravity an Earth sized object would have to be far enough away that its effects would be small enough to not be measurable. That would put an Earth sized object out 70AU or more. The reflection issue is an even greater constraint. It pushes an Earth sized object out at least 320AU. If it were that distance or closer it would be picked up in whole sky surveys.

Then comes the problem of a highly eccentric orbit which is usually claimed for this mystery planet. If that were the case, then the planet would be in a situation where there would be a transfer of momentum between the planet and the Sun. That transfer would cause the planet to be either ejected from the solar system or to move into a more circular orbit. With the age of the solar system as it is, billions of years old, any planet still remaining in the solar system would have to be in a low eccentric orbit.

Cyclical extinction events have been tested and found to not exist. That is the reason the Nemesis proposal was dropped. Also it was shown that the proposed highly eccentric orbit was not stable.

The Kuiper belt survey is done and nothing larger than around a Pluto sized object was found. Any planet sized object in the solar system must be very far out and never enter the orbits of the known planets.



posted on Nov, 17 2011 @ 08:02 PM
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reply to post by stereologist
 


Thanks for the reply.

I was trying to make a reference that at one point in time it was an accepted fact that the earth was flat and anyone who questioned this known fact was considered to be wrong and more often than not looked at as a lunatic. The same goes for the earth being the center of the solar system. It was the accepted dogma of the time and anyone who did not agree was seen as a lunatic making wild claims. The same mentality persists today. It may take years to prove many of the theories that exist today, but you cannot claim to know for sure with 100% certainty that many of them are false.

A big problem I see with all apocalypse theories is that most theorists include a specific date. This leads to a very basic problem. Every time one of these doomsday theories fails to happen on the specified date it only proves that yet another one is wrong. And with each successive failure the likelihood of such an event seems more and more improbable. Like Pavlov's Dogs we have been trained to disbelieve the very idea by repetitive failure.

A very good example of this will be in a link below. There are some very interesting arguments presented but again they give a specific date for the actual event. And in the end they are proven wrong because they give a specific day.

www.youtube.com...

The truth is at some point in time the earth is going to experience a doomsday scenario, it has happened in the past and we have the proof (mass extinctions).

I did not claim to know how or when this would happen only that it has happened in the past and that it will eventually happen again.



posted on Nov, 17 2011 @ 08:50 PM
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reply to post by Agwolf
 


Remember that the idea that the world was flat was a good model at its time, many thousands of years ago. It was long enough ago that it becomes uncertain as to whether or not people were ridiculed. The heliocentric vs geocentric issue goes back hundreds of years and much more is known about that issue. In both of these issues there was reason to believe that the existing reasoning was flawed. In one case star positions change as you move about the Earth. In the other retrograde motion had to be explained as well as ships appearing to sink below the horizon.


The same mentality persists today. It may take years to prove many of the theories that exist today, but you cannot claim to know for sure with 100% certainty that many of them are false.

Not really. The 2 examples you give are old, before science as we know it today had been developed. Also, a theory as used in science is not a guess, but a means of understanding a collection of facts. The 2012 theories are guess and they are really poor guesses at best. Most of them are outright hoaxes.

The big problem is not a precise date, but the validity of the claims themselves. An incoming planet sized mass is a testable idea. It fails. The claims of increased quakes and volcanic eruptions is testable. It fails. The claims of a second sun is testable. It fails.

As you point out the continued failure of one hoax after another makes you want to scream hoax when the next ludicrous idea is presented. It is more than likely a hoax.

You make the same logical mistake as the one you point out: "Like Pavlov's Dogs we have been trained to disbelieve the very idea by repetitive failure."

Just because there have been mass extinctions in the past does not mean that there will be one in the future. The causes of past events may no longer be applicable.

I did not watch video. I have no interest in watching videos. I have seen part of this before and the guy is a wacko. He suggests atoms are like planet systems. That is the old Rutherford model which was shown a century ago to be wrong. He misrepresents the ice core data. He claims that impacts can reverse the Earth's rotation. He confuses a number of astronomical issues such as precession with the motion of the Earth around the galaxy. Claims that the Sun is getting brighter because he can no longer look at it. And it goes on and on.



posted on Nov, 17 2011 @ 10:15 PM
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reply to post by stereologist
 


Interesting interview on Nibiru, wish we could have discussions in the same tone as in this interview..

Patience with the intro.. Worth a watch.

www.youtube.com...



posted on Nov, 17 2011 @ 11:12 PM
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reply to post by mockrock
 


Thank you for the link, I found the interview interesting, especially since it represents a very open minded perspective about the whole subject.



posted on Nov, 18 2011 @ 12:16 AM
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reply to post by mockrock
 


I've read about Lloyd before. His work fails because he has a planet orbiting a brown dwarf. Not only that but he wants the brown dwarf to have a highly eccentric orbit.

1.In a real scientific proposal there was a suggestion of Nemesis. Nemesis was found to have properties that could not be stable. It was a highly eccentric orbit. There is a transfer of momentum between the Sun and the Nemesis that would have either moved Nemesis into a more stable orbit or ejected it after only a few revolutions. That would have happened billions of years ago.
2. Brown dwarfs tend to pair up with brown dwarfs, not planets.

Lloyd suggests that the object would be hard to spot if it were in the direction of Sagittarius. If it existed, then WISE should have spotted it if not IRAS or 2MASS. Lloyd even suggests that the brown dwarf would appear red. Why? I have no idea. It would appear white as it reflected ambient light.

Lloyd suggests it is hot enough to support life and yet somehow is not detectable.



posted on Nov, 18 2011 @ 07:07 PM
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Originally posted by stereologist
reply to post by mockrock
 


I've read about Lloyd before. His work fails because he has a planet orbiting a brown dwarf. Not only that but he wants the brown dwarf to have a highly eccentric orbit.

Lloyd suggests it is hot enough to support life and yet somehow is not detectable.




Uploaded with ImageShack.us

But doesn't the highly eccentric orbit of Sedna go against all predictions too? Sedna's orbit only makes sense if it is interacting with a larger body such as Nibiru.


edit on 18-11-2011 by mockrock because: (no reason given)



posted on Nov, 18 2011 @ 07:56 PM
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Originally posted by mockrock
reply to post by mockrock
 


But if you want my best guess.. I'd say asteroid YU55 could be Nibiru.


It's got to sting a little bit, no?

On topic, Terral said we were supposed to have all those great cataclysmic effects of Nibiru earlier this year. Masters will undoubtedly be updating the "Final Update" long into the future. Before that we had the broad that predicted 2004 as the date for our dance with the Great Destroyer. And of course Godfather Sitchin's shuffled off, so he can't comment anymore on the subject.

At what point do you call it a day with this nonsense rather than continuously pushing back the arrival time? I mean, come on.



posted on Nov, 18 2011 @ 08:08 PM
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Originally posted by ColAngus

Originally posted by mockrock
reply to post by mockrock
 


But if you want my best guess.. I'd say asteroid YU55 could be Nibiru.


It's got to sting a little bit, no?

On topic, Terral said we were supposed to have all those great cataclysmic effects of Nibiru earlier this year. Masters will undoubtedly be updating the "Final Update" long into the future. Before that we had the broad that predicted 2004 as the date for our dance with the Great Destroyer. And of course Godfather Sitchin's shuffled off, so he can't comment anymore on the subject.

At what point do you call it a day with this nonsense rather than continuously pushing back the arrival time? I mean, come on.



My dear chap, this is not a discussion predicting any disasters... But I will say YU55 and Elenin was all part of a plan designed to make it impossible to talk about any space threats.. it is now impossible to even discuss them with someone dismissing it as Elenin YU55 nonsense..

Or it could have been part of the attack on conspiracies which is going on.. It is now so crowded with stooges on here.

Yes Pacwave 11 and all the other drills all part of a plan so we except it as normal when something bad does happen..

This is nothing to do with terral or the stooges deliberately making it an impossible subject to discuss.

Now back to Sedna...

edit on 18-11-2011 by mockrock because: (no reason given)

edit on 18-11-2011 by mockrock because: (no reason given)



posted on Nov, 19 2011 @ 12:04 AM
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reply to post by mockrock
 


The image you posted does not show the orbit of sedna well. The red line is not labeled and more likely the orbit of a comet if it shows a real object.


But doesn't the highly eccentric orbit of Sedna go against all predictions too? Sedna's orbit only makes sense if it is interacting with a larger body such as Nibiru.

The answer is no. Remember that Sedna is a small object. Sedna's orbit may not be stable - it might be changing greatly over time.



posted on Nov, 19 2011 @ 12:08 AM
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reply to post by mockrock
 



it is now impossible to even discuss them with someone dismissing it as Elenin YU55 nonsense..

The problem is that people need to differentiate between nonsense claims and real claims. The burden is on those that cannot differentiate between the two to learn how to turn on their built in wacko meters to see the difference.



posted on Nov, 19 2011 @ 03:03 AM
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Originally posted by stereologist
reply to post by mockrock
 



it is now impossible to even discuss them with someone dismissing it as Elenin YU55 nonsense..

The problem is that people need to differentiate between nonsense claims and real claims. The burden is on those that cannot differentiate between the two to learn how to turn on their built in wacko meters to see the difference.


Yeah but that is pretty hard after 9/11 anything is possible, obviously conspiracies that may have seemed ridiculous have to be reconsidered.

It is not 'wacko' to believe something is going to hit the Earth.. It has happened before and as we know bad things happen on drill days.. For example 9/11, so really we have to question who the wackos are.. Those that still blindly believe everything the our government's sell us. They are part of the same ilk as those that believed the world was flat, despite evidence suggesting otherwise..

Since we only have NASA to trust to confirm or rule out Nibiru, we are never going to know either way..


Also Sedna is fairly large www.darkstar1.co.uk...

"There are several anomalous aspects to this discovery, not least of which is Sedna's orbit. It is simply not behaving as it should, at least according to the model of the solar system used by astronomers. To have such an elliptical orbit it would have to have been pulled out of an ancient circular orbit by some other, massive object. Yet no such object is known to exist out there, and the potential existence of an undiscovered massive object has long been dismissed by astronomers. "


The problem is Nibiru has been deliberately discredited as wacko, so astronomers and researchers are cautious discussing it. It is very unhelpful just to label things Wacko.. this is an open-minded forum and surely the ideal place to discuss the evidence around Nibiru?

It worries me that the Elenin & YU55 was used to stop us discussing Nibiru..
edit on 19-11-2011 by mockrock because: (no reason given)



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