Why do people say "God" without giving the specific name of said God?

reply to post by JB1234


assuming you have accepted his teachings---lets go directly to HIS WORD to see what he has to say about HIS NATURE...
..
Gen1:26 And God said," Let US make man in OUR image, after OUR likeness".

Gen 3:22 And the LORD God said, "Behold, the man is become as one of US", to know good and evil.

Isaiah 53:7 Come, let US go down and confuse their language so they will not understand each other.

Gen16:13 And she called the name of the LORD that spake unto her, Thou God seest me: for she said , Have I also here looked after him that seeth me? (JESUS manifested himself in the Old testament times).

Gen 18:1 And the LORD appeared unto him in the plains of Mamre: and he sat in the tent door in the heat of the day.

Gen 18:2 And he lift up his eyes and looked, and, lo, THREE MEN stood by him: and when he saw [them], he ran to meet them from the tent door, and bowed himself toward the ground
Genesis 32:30 And Jacob called the name of the place Peniel: for I have seen GOD FACE TO FACE, and my life is preserved.

Isaiah41:22-23 “ Let them bring forth and show US what will happen; Let them show the former things, what they were,That WE may consider them,And know the latter end of them; Or declare to US things to come.
23 Show the things that are to come hereafter,That WE may know that you are gods; Yes, do good or do evil,
That WE may be dismayed and see it together.

Daniel 3:25 He answered and said, Lo, I see four men loose, walking in the midst of the fire, and they have no hurt; and the form of the fourth is like the SON OF GOD.(GOD has a SON)

Proverbs 30:44 Who hath ascended up into heaven, or descended? who hath gathered the wind in his fists? who hath bound the waters in a garment? who hath established all the ends of the earth? what is his name, and what is HIS SON's NAME, if thou canst tell?

Psalms11-12 Serve the LORD with fear, and rejoice with trembling.
12 Kiss THE SON, lest he be angry, and ye perish from the way, when his wrath is kindled but a little. BLESSED ARE ALL THEY THAT PUT THEIR TRUST IN HIM

Dan 7:9-9 I beheld till the thrones were cast down, and the ANCIENT OF DAYS did sit, whose garment was white as snow, and the hair of his head like the pure wool: HIS THRONE WAS LIKE THE FIERY FLAME, and his wheels as burning fire.

Dan 7:13 I saw in the night visions, and, behold, [one] like the SON OF MAN came with the clouds of heaven, and came to the ANCIENT OF DAYS, and they brought him near before him.

Dan 7:14 And there was given him dominion, and glory, and a kingdom, that all people, nations, and languages, should serve him: his dominion [is] an everlasting dominion, which shall not pass away, and his kingdom [that] which shall not be destroyed.

Psa 110:1 ] The LORD said unto MY LORD, "Sit thou at my right hand, until I make thine enemies thy footstool."(all authority given to the SON)

Prov8:22- The LORD possessed ME(JESUS SPEAKING) in the beginning of his way, before his works of old
23I was set up from everlasting, from the beginning, or ever the earth was.
30Then I was by him, as one brought up with him: and I was daily his delight, rejoicing always before him.
34Blessed is the man that heareth me, watching daily at my gates, waiting at the posts of my doors.
35For whoso findeth ME findeth life, and shall obtain favour of the LORD.
36But he that sinneth AGAINST ME wrongeth his own soul: all they that hate me love death.

Mal 1:6..A son honoureth [his] father, and a servant his master: if THEN I BE A FATHER, WHERE IS MINE HONOURr? and if I be a master, where [is] my fear? saith the LORD Of HOST unto you, O priests, that despise my name. And ye say, Wherein have we despised thy name?

Joshua5:13 And it came to pass, when Joshua was by Jericho, that he lifted up his eyes and looked, and, behold, there stood a man over against him with his sword drawn in his hand: and Joshua went unto him, and said unto him, [Art] thou for us, or for our adversaries?
14 And he said, Nay; but as CAPTAIN of the host of the LORD am I now come. And Joshua fell on his face to the earth, and did worship.(This was THE SON .Joshua calls him LORD.no angel has ever allowed for anyone to worship them or fall on their face before them)..

THE "HOLY SPIRIT" IS HIS FORCE>
TRINITY WELL TAUGHT BY ANCIENT PROPHETS..JUST LIKE THE RAPTURE...

reply to post by SOILDERSUNITEDFORCHRIST

i ask if for your permission for a reason its out of respect towards you and towards my believes because we are discussing the MOST HIGH.. we will be accountable for every word we say or every thing we neglect(saved or not).as a bible believer we have a view that the more you know or understand about GOD(the GOD HEAD)the HIGHER YOUR PUNISHMENT WILL BE if you NEGLECT HIM. this is exactly why JESUS would speak in parables, or "coded language". he knew some would not believe so to lower their punishment he spoke in a way they couldn't understand.a UNIQUE TYPE OF MERCY.---so assuming you have accepted his teachings---lets go directly to HIS WORD to see what he has to say about HIS NATURE...

No, I am not going to be punished by any "Most High" and that is rediculous to even think.
You are in some sort of superticious world where you worship demons and earth spirits.
God is not of this world. This is the abode of gods. None of them is any more "most high" than the sky above us.
I worship the God of a heaven higher than anything we can see.

reply to post by jmdewey60


DID YOU READ THE SCRIPTURES I POSTED??. YESHUA IS GOD.

reply to post by SOILDERSUNITEDFORCHRIST
First, you should look at my thread about "People who pronounce the name of Jesus. . ." where I explain that the name of Jesus is, Jesus.
How to Pronounce the Name, Jesus
You don't make your case.
I think these verses would more work against your "conclusion".

reply to post by jmdewey60


iv already made my point in your said thread. you are NOBODY to say WHO goes to HELL..
and where are those verses that support your blasphemous claims?
let me guess. probably in the Talmud? written by blasphemers.

Does it really matter what His name is? No matter who you are, what religion or lack of religion you have... when you're in a REALLY BIG BIND... the first thing you think or say aloud is "Oh God!"
Names limit things anyway and a god is limitless, no?
So there!

reply to post by SOILDERSUNITEDFORCHRIST
What Talmud? When have I ever quoted the Talmud, and why would I?
The verses I was talking about were the ones you quoted, which I believe could be equally well used to counter your claim, as to support it.
If I want to say particular people are going to hell, that is my prerogative, but I have not the power to send any there, nor would I want to but only give warning.

Let me quote verse for my own view about calling on gods:

Look how you have fallen from the sky,
O shining one, son of the dawn!
You have been cut down to the ground,
O conqueror of the nations!
You said to yourself,
“I will climb up to the sky.
Above the stars of El
I will set up my throne.
I will rule on the mountain of assembly
on the remote slopes of Zaphon.
I will climb up to the tops of the clouds;
I will make myself like the Most High!”
But you were brought down to Sheol,
to the remote slopes of the pit.

Making a god and giving it exalted titles is worthless. You may wish it, but you can not make it so.

“This is what King Sennacherib of Assyria says: ‘Why are you so confident that you remain in Jerusalem while it is under siege? Hezekiah says, “The Lord our God will rescue us from the power of the king of Assyria.” But he is misleading you and you will die of hunger and thirst! Hezekiah is the one who eliminated the Lord’s high places and altars and then told Judah and Jerusalem, “At one altar you must worship and offer sacrifices.” Are you not aware of what I and my predecessors have done to all the nations of the surrounding lands? Have the gods of the surrounding lands actually been able to rescue their lands from my power?

The messenger of the king of Assyria is telling the people of Jerusalem that their King had done away with their most high god, and had destroyed all the altars to that god, which were in the high places. So how could they possibly be delivered, having lost their god who would have been necessary to protect them, seeing how the Assyrians did have a most high god.

reply to post by jmdewey60


you seem to be extremely lost in your interpretations of this such HOLY book. please PRAY TO JESUS and ask him to open your eyes.

heres what those verses are talking about.
first you have to be careful what English translation you use-

Isaiah 14:12-14
King James Version
12How art thou fallen from heaven, O Lucifer, son of the morning! how art thou cut down to the ground, which didst weaken the nations!

13For thou hast said in thine heart, I will ascend into heaven, I will exalt my throne above the stars of God: I will sit also upon the mount of the congregation, in the sides of the north:

14I will ascend above the heights of the clouds; I will be like the most High.- this verse is talking about abandon.(SATAN)

heres EZEKIEL's view-
Ezekiel 28:12-15
Son of man, take up a lamentation upon the king of Tyrus, and say unto him, Thus saith the Lord GOD; "Thou sealest up the sum, full of wisdom, and perfect in beauty."(speaking of satan)

-13Thou hast been in Eden the garden of God;(makes it clear it is not talking about the knig of tyrus) every precious stone was thy covering, the sardius, topaz, and the diamond, the beryl, the onyx, and the jasper, the sapphire, the emerald, and the carbuncle, and gold.(ways of descriving the heavenly light that used to cover his body) the workmanship of thy tabrets and of thy pipes was prepared in thee in the day that thou wast created.

14Thou art the anointed cherub(he was the highest rank of angel) that covereth; and I have set thee so: thou wast upon the holy mountain of God; thou hast walked up and down in the midst of the stones of fire.

15Thou wast perfect in thy ways from the day that thou wast created, till iniquity was found in thee.(his rebellion).
this verse you quoted is speaking of SATAN not YESHUA.

now your second post-
2 chronicles 32:7-8.."Be strong and courageous, be not afraid nor dismayed for the king of Assyria, nor for all the multitude that is with him: for there be more with us than with him:
With him is an arm of flesh; but with us is the LORD our God to help us, and to fight our battles". And the people rested themselves upon the words of Hezekiah king of Judah.

(HEZEKIAH WAS A GREAT AND PROSPEROUS KING AND HIS PEOPLE STOOD BY HIM))

-10Thus saith Sennacherib king of Assyria, Whereon do ye trust, that ye abide in the siege in Jerusalem?

-11Doth not Hezekiah persuade you to give over yourselves to die by famine and by thirst, saying, The LORD our God shall deliver us out of the hand of the king of Assyria?

-12Hath not the same Hezekiah taken away his HIGH PLACES and HIGH ALTARS(THE PAGAN ONES), and commanded Judah and Jerusalem, saying, Ye shall worship before ONE ALTAR, and BURN INCENSE upon it?

(DO SOME RESEARCH ON KING HEZEKIAH AND YOU WILL FIND OUT HE BROUGHT THE WORSHIP OF IHVH BACK TO SOLOMONS TEMPLE. THIS IS WHY THE VERSE SAYS ONE ALTAR" AND DESTROYED EVERY THING THE JEWS WOULD SEE AS IDOLS. THIS INCLUDES THE FAMOUS BRAZEN SERPENT MOSES USED DURING THE EXODUS.
en.wikipedia.org...

-13Know ye not what I and my fathers have done unto all the people of other lands? were the gods of the nations of those lands any ways able to deliver their lands out of mine hand?

-14Who was there among all the gods of those nations that my fathers utterly destroyed, that could deliver his people out of mine hand, that your God should be able to deliver you out of mine hand?

(THEY ASSYRIANS ARE ATTEMPTING TO INTIMIDATING THE JEWS IN ORDER FOR THEIR SURRENDER)

-15Now therefore let not Hezekiah deceive you, nor persuade you on this manner, neither yet believe him: for no god of any nation or kingdom was able to deliver his people out of mine hand, and out of the hand of my fathers: how much less shall your God deliver you out of mine hand?

-16And his servants spake yet more against the LORD God, and against his servant Hezekiah.

THEN THE FAMOUS BATTLE HAPPENED-

THIS WAS ALSO RECORDED BY HERODOTUS THE FATHER OF HISTORY
en.wikipedia.org...

THIS IS WHEN THE ANGEL OF THE LORD SLAUGHTERED 180,000
ASSYRIANS.- HERODOTUS BELIEVES IT WAS A PLAGUE- OF MICE RESPONSIBLE FOR THE MASSIVE ASSYRIAN DEATHS--

I GUESS FINDING NATURAL EXPLANATIONS FOR THE MIRACLES IN THE BIBLE IS AS OLD AS HISTORY ITSELF.
PLEASE STUDY THE BIBLE BEFORE COMMENTING OR DAMMING SOMEONE TO HELL

YESHUA IS KING OF KING AND LORD OF LORDS

IF THE ASSYRIANS HAD THE MOST HIGH WHERE IS THERE EMPIRE TODAY? A SWAMP. NOW LOOK AT ISRAEL.. ENOUGH SAID




:

reply to post by SOILDERSUNITEDFORCHRIST

ENOUGH SAID

I agree.
You did say enough to damn yourself.
You admit that you worship the god of the Assyrians, the Babylonians, the Persians, the Greeks, and the Romans, and now, the Anglo/American Empire, whoever is on top, the "most high god". The god of this earth.
I don't.

Gen1:26 And God said," Let US make man in OUR image, after OUR likeness".

Gen 3:22 And the LORD God said, "Behold, the man is become as one of US", to know good and evil.

Isaiah 53:7 Come, let US go down and confuse their language so they will not understand each other.

It is perfectly acceptable and common for family members to use a collective "us" or "we" - If I went shopping with my daughter I might say "we went shopping" it doesn't mean we have to be part of the same person at all.

In fact this is confirmed at (John 17:5) . . .So now you, Father, glorify me alongside yourself with the glory that I had alongside you before the world was.

Only hours before his death—Jesus petitioned: “Father, the hour has come; glorify your son, that your son may glorify you. This means everlasting life, their taking in knowledge of you, the only true God, and of the one whom you sent forth, Jesus Christ.”—John 17:1, 3.

Notice that Jesus prays to One whom he calls “the only true God.” He points to God’s superior position when he continues: “So now you, Father, glorify me alongside yourself with the glory that I had alongside you before the world was.” (John 17:5) Since Jesus prayed to God requesting to be alongside God, how could Jesus at the same time be “the only true God”?

How could Jesus have resurrected himself? (Acts 2:31-32) 31 he saw beforehand and spoke concerning the resurrection of the Christ, that neither was he forsaken in Ha′des nor did his flesh see corruption. 32 This Jesus God resurrected, of which fact we are all witnesses.

In other words Peter was saying "This Jesus" - "God resurrected" an adjective and then a verb ie two seperate beings.

The King James version muddies the waters because instead of using the divine name YHWH - Jehovah - it substitutes YHWH as LORD. So every quote that you have made, which states LORD - in the original text the name Jehovah was there orginally.

A short time after Jesus was put to death........., Jesus’ disciple Stephen was killed by religious persecutors. As they were about to stone him, Stephen was granted a vision. He stated: “Look! I behold the heavens opened up and the Son of man standing at God’s right hand.” (Acts 7:56) Jesus, “the Son of man,” was thus seen by Stephen in a role supportive to God in heaven—“at God’s right hand”—even as he had been ‘alongside God’ before he came to earth.

In fact Jesus specifically seperates himself from his Father by saying that these men (the disciples) were hisfather's & not HIS belongings at John 17

(John 17:6-8) . . .“I have made your name manifest to the men you gave me out of the world. They were yours, and you gave them to me, and they have observed your word. 7 They have now come to know that all the things you gave me are from you; 8 because the sayings that you gave me I have given to them, and they have received them and have certainly come to know that I came out as your representative, and they have believed that you sent me forth.

If Jesus was God... why did Paul describe Jesus as subordinate to God? Afterall Saul of Tarsus had himself been blinded by Jesus and then cured which led to him immediate conversion from a Jew who had previously persecuted the Christians mercilessly.

In Paul's famous speech to the Athenians
(Acts 17:24) 24 The God that made the world and all the things in it, being, as this One is, Lord of heaven and earth, does not dwell in handmade temples. . . ie God

Then he clearly refers to Jesus as a man appointed by God.

(Acts 17:31) . . .Because he has set a day in which he purposes to judge the inhabited earth in righteousness by a man whom he has appointed, and he has furnished a guarantee to all men in that he has resurrected him from the dead.”

Paul had more reason than anyone to confer Godship on Jesus, yet he clearly distinguished them as two entirely seperate entities and what's more by referring to Jesus as an appointed man was showing him as a lesser being than the Almighty creator.

Nowhere in the Scriptures does Jesus claim to be Jehovah.

In fact for me the Trinity must be questioned when you read (Philippians 2:5-7) . . .Keep this mental attitude in YOU that was also in Christ Jesus,who, although he was existing in God’s form, gave no consideration to a seizure, namely, that he should be equal to God. No, but he emptied himself and took a slave’s form and came to be in the likeness of men.

And John clearly states
(John 20:31) . . .But these have been written down that YOU may believe that Jesus is the Christ the Son of God. . .

Later in a vision John records in Revelation that (Revelation 14:1) And I saw, and, look! the Lamb standing upon the Mount Zion, and with him a hundred and forty-four thousand having his name and the name of his Father written on their foreheads. . ."

So these 144,000 are pictured with the name of Jesus (the lamb)... and the "name of his father" Jehovah. If these two heavenly beings were the same entity why did John record 2 names?

reply to post by jmdewey60


i wont even argue with you iv proven my facts before hand.YOU HAVE NO THEOLOGICAL UNDERSTANDING AND I CANT TRY TO GIVE YOU UNDERSTANDING IF YOU WERE NOT CHOSEN FOR IT...................

reply to post by JB1234



In fact this is confirmed at (John 17:5) . . .So now you, Father, glorify me alongside yourself with the glory that I had alongside you before the world was.

this only PROVES MY POINT that YESHUA and the FATHER and HOLY SPIRIT existed BEFORE THE WORLD WAS

so they crucified JESUS for teaching people to LOVE THY NEIGHBOR or TURN THE OTHER CHEEK?? and HEALING people?

NO SIR he was murdered for CLAIMING TO BE GOD. this was blasphemous to the blind JEWS of the time

reply to post by jmdewey60


is that really all you got? no bible verses to prove your piont? i thought so...

Titus 2:7-8

(KJV)

7In all things shewing thyself a pattern of good works: in doctrine shewing uncorruptness, gravity, sincerity,

8Sound speech, that cannot be condemned; that he that is of the contrary part may be ashamed, having no evil thing to say of you.

reply to post by JB1234


THREE FORCES working AS ONE. THERE IS NO TWO GODS OF JACOB ISSAC AND ABRAHAM
let me have some time and i will get more detailed

Originally posted by SOILDERSUNITEDFORCHRIST
reply to post by jmdewey60

 

i wont even argue with you iv proven my facts before hand.YOU HAVE NO THEOLOGICAL UNDERSTANDING AND I CANT TRY TO GIVE YOU UNDERSTANDING IF YOU WERE NOT CHOSEN FOR IT...................

Oh, No! You can't let people like me get away with saying outrageous things, can you? Even if you may not be able to persuade me, wouldn't you think that there may be someone else out there who could see the wisdom of your truth as you see it.

reply to post by SOILDERSUNITEDFORCHRIST

is that really all you got? no bible verses to prove your piont? i thought so...
Titus 2:7-8 (KJV)

7In all things shewing thyself a pattern of good works: in doctrine shewing uncorruptness, gravity, sincerity,
8Sound speech, that cannot be condemned; that he that is of the contrary part may be ashamed, having no evil thing to say of you.

Can you find another verse that says essentially the same thing as what you are quoting here? The reason I ask is that Titus is one of those letters supposedly by Paul, which were discovered by the Church at a convenient time, when they were setting up their ecclesiastic hierarchy, so they wanted verses which suggested a submission by the common folk , to those who somehow knew better than them, what was acceptable thought, especially concerning who was in charge.
My point, which was of the post you were responding to, in the one I am currently replying to, is that it seems to me that you have an impure motive for your god-choice, and one that is based on who the winning side happens to be. I also was making a point that your god-choice is the god of this earth. You may be able to expand on that a bit, to even think that I may be implying that your god-choice is an earth god. My other point is my statement that I do not choose as my god-choice an earth-god, but instead, choose a higher order God than the one who is visible working death and destruction through wars of men.
If all this is, "all you got" then you should be able to easily refute all my claims by presenting an easy to assemble group of overwhelming counter-claims.

reply to post by jmdewey60


That is my whole point. i hope someone takes time to look at reality, as seen by ancient and wise people
there is definitely a CREATOR and i have shown a little evidence of why i follow the GOD of the jews.

putting all prejudices aside. it is the ONLY one who makes sense, and so far has KEPT ALL HIS PROMISES OR COVENANTS.
GOD BLESS

reply to post by jmdewey60


Gen 18:1 And the LORD appeared unto him in the plains of Mamre: and he sat in the tent door in the heat of the day.

Gen 18:2 And he lift up his eyes and looked, and, lo, THREE MEN stood by him: and when he saw [them], he ran to meet them from the tent door, and bowed himself toward the ground
Genesis 32:30 And Jacob called the name of the place Peniel: for I have seen GOD FACE TO FACE, and my life is preserved.

Isaiah41:22-23 “ Let them bring forth and show US what will happen; Let them show the former things, what they were,That WE may consider them,And know the latter end of them; Or declare to US things to come.
23 Show the things that are to come hereafter,That WE may know that you are gods; Yes, do good or do evil,
That WE may be dismayed and see it together.

Daniel 3:25 He answered and said, Lo, I see four men loose, walking in the midst of the fire, and they have no hurt; and the form of the fourth is like the SON OF GOD.(GOD has a SON)

Proverbs 30:44 Who hath ascended up into heaven, or descended? who hath gathered the wind in his fists? who hath bound the waters in a garment? who hath established all the ends of the earth? what is his name, and what is HIS SON's NAME, if thou canst tell?

Psalms11-12 Serve the LORD with fear, and rejoice with trembling.
12 Kiss THE SON, lest he be angry, and ye perish from the way, when his wrath is kindled but a little. BLESSED ARE ALL THEY THAT PUT THEIR TRUST IN HIM

Dan 7:9-9 I beheld till the thrones were cast down, and the ANCIENT OF DAYS did sit, whose garment was white as snow, and the hair of his head like the pure wool: HIS THRONE WAS LIKE THE FIERY FLAME, and his wheels as burning fire.

Dan 7:13 I saw in the night visions, and, behold, [one] like the SON OF MAN came with the clouds of heaven, and came to the ANCIENT OF DAYS, and they brought him near before him.

Dan 7:14 And there was given him dominion, and glory, and a kingdom, that all people, nations, and languages, should serve him: his dominion [is] an everlasting dominion, which shall not pass away, and his kingdom [that] which shall not be destroyed.

Psa 110:1 ] The LORD said unto MY LORD, "Sit thou at my right hand, until I make thine enemies thy footstool."(all authority given to the SON)

Prov8:22- The LORD possessed ME(JESUS SPEAKING) in the beginning of his way, before his works of old
23I was set up from everlasting, from the beginning, or ever the earth was.
30Then I was by him, as one brought up with him: and I was daily his delight, rejoicing always before him.
34Blessed is the man that heareth me, watching daily at my gates, waiting at the posts of my doors.
35For whoso findeth ME findeth life, and shall obtain favour of the LORD.
36But he that sinneth AGAINST ME wrongeth his own soul: all they that hate me love death.

Mal 1:6..A son honoureth [his] father, and a servant his master: if THEN I BE A FATHER, WHERE IS MINE HONOURr? and if I be a master, where [is] my fear? saith the LORD Of HOST unto you, O priests, that despise my name. And ye say, Wherein have we despised thy name?

Joshua5:13 And it came to pass, when Joshua was by Jericho, that he lifted up his eyes and looked, and, behold, there stood a man over against him with his sword drawn in his hand: and Joshua went unto him, and said unto him, [Art] thou for us, or for our adversaries?
14 And he said, Nay; but as CAPTAIN of the host of the LORD am I now come. And Joshua fell on his face to the earth, and did worship.(This was THE SON .Joshua calls him LORD.no angel has ever allowed for anyone to worship them or fall on their face before them)..

THIS IS NOT SOMETHING YOU DIGEST IN A FEW HOURS. DWELL ON IT

reply to post by jmdewey60

ANOTHER VERSE?....
1 Thessalonians 4:2-7

King James Version (KJV)

2For ye know what commandments we gave you by the Lord Jesus.

3For this is the will of God, even your sanctification, that ye should abstain from fornication:

4That every one of you should know how to possess his vessel in sanctification and honour;

5Not in the lust of concupiscence, even as the Gentiles which know not God:

6That no man go beyond and defraud his brother in any matter: because that the Lord is the avenger of all such, as we also have forewarned you and testified.

7For God hath not called us unto uncleanness, but unto holiness.

IM NOT CLAIMING IM TOTALLY THERE,HOWEVER THIS IS MY GOAL.

reply to post by SOILDERSUNITEDFORCHRIST

putting all prejudices aside. it is the ONLY one who makes sense, and so far has KEPT ALL HIS PROMISES OR COVENANTS.
GOD BLESS

But none of them are for you, so why would you worship a god who has nothing but death and slavery in mind for you? Do you like that? Being tortured and killed by the god of hell?
Wouldn't you want a god who could exist outside of this world and could have another world, a world where you could live with Him forever?