Why do people say "God" without giving the specific name of said God?

reply to post by SOILDERSUNITEDFORCHRIST

I think that is something the writer of that Gospel picked up from the writings of Paul where he was saying the old god was preventing some from accepting the Gospel of Jesus. The old god did those things like that, to purposely make people not understand, so as to not have to save anyone, while that old god was perfectly content with killing everyone. So, again, why do you want to believe in the old god who fights against Jesus?

Originally posted by SOILDERSUNITEDFORCHRIST
reply to post by JB1234

 

JEHOVAH SAID "YOU SHOULD WORSHIP NO OTHER GOD FOR I AM A JEALOUS GOD."
SO WHY WOULD HE SEND JESUS TO BE WORSHIPED IF HE WAS NOT HIMSELF?

LET 'US' CREATE MAKE MAN IN "OUR" OWN IMAGE. ( JEHOVAH WAS NOT TALKING TO HIM SELF).
THIS HAPPENS ENOUGH THAT IT IS NOT EASY TO DISMISS.. DO I NEED TO RE POST ALL THE VERSES?

JOHN 1:1 IS NOT THE FOUNDATION OF THE TRINITY. IT WAS SPOKEN OF ALL THREW THE TORAH.
JOHN SIMPLY IS PUTTING IT IN A POETIC WAY WHERE GENTILES WILL UNDERSTAND THE DOCTRINE.

JESUS IS THE CREATOR.

edit on 16-10-2011 by SOILDERSUNITEDFORCHRIST because: (no reason given)

I don't know why the capitals have to be used. All you are doing is quoting random scriptures and not answering any of the points raised.

Jesus' response to Satan.... (Matthew 4:10) . . .Go away, Satan! For it is written, ‘It is Jehovah your God you must worship, and it is to him alone you must render sacred service.’”

Why would Jesus fail to mention that he himself should be worshipped if that was the case?

Where does the Torah teach the trinity doctrine?

When Jesus came out of the water after being immersed by John the Baptist what happened? (Matthew 3:17) . . .Look! Also, there was a voice from the heavens that said: “This is my Son, the beloved, whom I have approved.” - Jehovah was telling us that Jesus was his Son, whom he had approved. If Jesus was indeed Jehovah how could his voice come from the heavens at the same time as he was on earth being baptised?!!. It is not logical.

Just as the Roman Soldiers and even the demons acknowledged in Scripture regarding Jesus - (Mark 15:39) . . .“Certainly this man was God’s Son.”

As I've said many times in this thread, there is not one single reference that Jesus claimed to be Jehovah.THAT would have been blasphemy!

Trinities of gods have flourished in Babylon, Assyria, and Egypt, as well as in Buddhist lands. Christendom too has its “holy” Trinity, which derives it's roots NOT from Scripture but from these pagan civilisations.

I have spent many hours researching and presenting evidence that actually the Trinity Doctrine was not originally taught by the early Christians and is actually an adaptation from Paganism adopted by the Church of Rome. in order to make their tenets "all inclusive" and more attractive to the populous.... but if you don't accept it then fine, that's your choice. I am not going to waste time discussing with a brick wall.

reply to post by JB1234

Jesus' response to Satan.... (Matthew 4:10) . . .Go away, Satan! For it is written, ‘It is Jehovah your God you must worship, and it is to him alone you must render sacred service.’”

You are probably quoting from the New World Translation where they purposely added "Jehovah" in where it is not in the Greek text.
The "devil" in this story is misquoting scripture and then giving it a twisted interpretation, in order to get Jesus to follow him, so Jesus was properly quoting the scripture to throw back at the "devil" to refute his claims.
Jesus was not exactly endorsing a particular named individual but a higher meaning to the scripture which is that there is a supreme God above everything, and none below that level should ever be worshiped.

- Jehovah was telling us that Jesus was his Son,

No, actually that was God. Jehovah is not in the NT, unless you understand him as being the "devil" in the wilderness, the same Jinn-god of the desert who met up with Moses.

No that is not correct at all.

Matthew for instance wrote his original gospel IN HEBREW. External evidence to the effect that Matthew originally wrote this Gospel in Hebrew reaches as far back as Papias of Hierapolis, of the second century C.E. Eusebius quoted Papias as stating: “Matthew collected the oracles in the Hebrew language.” (The Ecclesiastical History, III, XXXIX, 16) Early in the third century, Origen made reference to Matthew’s account and, in discussing the four Gospels, is quoted by Eusebius as saying that the “first was written . . . according to Matthew, who was once a tax-collector but afterwards an apostle of Jesus Christ, . . . in the Hebrew language.” (The Ecclesiastical History, VI, XXV, 3-6)

In every Gospel writing in Hebrew the Tetragrammaton יהוה would have appeared as YHWH. Commenting on the fact that the oldest fragments of the Greek Septuagint do contain the divine name in its Hebrew form, Dr. P. Kahle says: “We now know that the Greek Bible text [the Septuagint] as far as it was written by Jews for Jews did not translate the Divine name by kyrios, but the Tetragrammaton written with Hebrew or Greek letters was retained in such MSS [manuscripts]. It was the Christians who replaced the Tetragrammaton by kyrios, when the divine name written in Hebrew letters was not understood any more.” (The Cairo Geniza, Oxford, 1959, p. 222

Moreover these were not early Christians who replaces the tetragrammaton but Centuries later...

In Aquila’s Greek version, dating from the second century C.E., the Tetragrammaton still appeared in Hebrew characters. Around 245 C.E., the noted scholar Origen produced his Hexapla, a six-column reproduction of the inspired Hebrew Scriptures: (1) in their original Hebrew and Aramaic, accompanied by (2) a transliteration into Greek, and by the Greek versions of (3) Aquila, (4) Symmachus, (5) the Septuagint, and (6) Theodotion. On the evidence of the fragmentary copies now known, Professor W. G. Waddell says: “In Origen’s Hexapla . . . the Greek versions of Aquila, Symmachus, and LXX [Septuagint] all represented JHWH by ΠΙΠΙ; in the second column of the Hexapla the Tetragrammaton was written in Hebrew characters.” (The Journal of Theological Studies, Oxford, Vol. XLV, 1944, pp. 158, 159) Others believe the original text of Origen’s Hexapla used Hebrew characters for the Tetragrammaton in all its columns. Origen himself stated that “in the most accurate manuscripts THE NAME occurs in Hebrew characters, yet not in today’s Hebrew [characters], but in the most ancient ones.”

As late as the fourth century C.E., Jerome, the translator of the Latin Vulgate, says in his prologue to the books of Samuel and Kings: “And we find the name of God, the Tetragrammaton [i.e., יהוה], in certain Greek volumes even to this day expressed in ancient letters.”

reply to post by JB1234

What this sounds like to me is, "Some time in the fourth or fifth centuries, various Bible scholars made there own versions of what they thought were the important parts of the Bible, and they for one reason or another, went ahead and added in some Hebrew letters in the place of God (Theou or Theos), as was found in the Greek texts."
People can do that for their own enjoyment, just like the producers of the version you quote from did.
I would be more interested in how it was before they made their changes.

reply to post by JB1234




FROM THE ORIGINAL GREEK..

JOHN 12:38
That the saying of Esaias the prophet might be fulfilled, which he spake, Lord, who hath believed our report? and to whom hath the arm of the Lord been revealed? 39 Therefore THEY COULD NOT BELIEVE, because that Esaias said again, 40 HE HAD BLINDETH THEIR EYES, and HARDENED THEIR HEART; that THEY SHOULD NOT SEE WITH THEIR EYES, NOR UNDERSTAND WITH THEIR HEARTS, and BE CONVERTED, and I SHOULD HEAL THEM. 41 These things said Esaias, when he saw his glory, and spake of him. 42 Nevertheless among the chief rulers also many believed on him; but because of the Pharisees they did not confess him, LEST THEY BE PUT OUT OF THE SYNAGOG: 43 For they LOVED THE PRAISE OF MEN. more THAN THE PRAISE OF GOD. 44 JESUS CRIED and SAID, .>>."HE THAT BELIEVETH ON ME, BELIEVETH NOT ON ME, BUT ON HIM THAT SENT ME. AND HE THAT SEETH ME. SEETH HIM THAT SENT ME"

reply to post by JB1234




FROM THE ORIGINAL GREEK..

JOHN 12:38
That the saying of Esaias the prophet might be fulfilled, which he spake, Lord, who hath believed our report? and to whom hath the arm of the Lord been revealed? 39 Therefore THEY COULD NOT BELIEVE, because that Esaias said again, 40 HE HAD BLINDETH THEIR EYES, and HARDENED THEIR HEART; that THEY SHOULD NOT SEE WITH THEIR EYES, NOR UNDERSTAND WITH THEIR HEARTS, and BE CONVERTED, and I SHOULD HEAL THEM. 41 These things said Esaias, when he saw his glory, and spake of him. 42 Nevertheless among the chief rulers also many believed on him; but because of the Pharisees they did not confess him, LEST THEY BE PUT OUT OF THE SYNAGOG: 43 For they LOVED THE PRAISE OF MEN. more THAN THE PRAISE OF GOD. 44 JESUS CRIED and SAID, .>>."HE THAT BELIEVETH ON ME, BELIEVETH NOT ON ME, BUT ON HIM THAT SENT ME. AND HE THAT SEETH ME. SEETH HIM THAT SENT ME"

reply to post by jmdewey60


Jehovah the "old GOD" as you call him is not against "JESUS". even if you dont agree with the trinity this is clear that the father sent him to be worshiped. i don't know where you get this nonsense from.

this is speaking of people like you.....

THEY COULD NOT BELIEVE, because that Esaias said again, 40 HE HAD BLINDETH THEIR EYES, and HARDENED THEIR HEART; that THEY SHOULD NOT SEE WITH THEIR EYES, NOR UNDERSTAND WITH THEIR HEARTS, and BE CONVERTED, and I SHOULD HEAL THEM. 41 These things said Esaias, when he saw his glory, and spake of him. 42 Nevertheless among the chief rulers also many believed on him; but because of the Pharisees they did not confess him, LEST THEY BE PUT OUT OF THE SYNAGOG: 43 For they LOVED THE PRAISE OF MEN. more THAN THE PRAISE OF GOD. 44 JESUS CRIED and SAID, .>>."HE THAT BELIEVETH ON ME, BELIEVETH NOT ON ME, BUT ON HIM THAT SENT ME. AND HE THAT SEETH ME. SEETH HIM THAT SENT ME"

reply to post by JB1234


psalm 2 is the FATHER the SON and the HOLY GHOST having a conversation amongst them if you pay ATTENTION.....
PSALM 2
Why do the heathen rage, and the people imagine a vain thing?

2The kings of the earth set themselves, and the rulers take counsel together, against the LORD, and against HIS ANOINTED, saying,

3Let us break THEIR bands asunder, and cast away THEIR cords from us.

4He that sitteth in the heavens shall laugh: the LORD shall have them in derision.

5Then shall he speak unto them in his wrath, and vex them in his sore displeasure.

6Yet have I set MY KING upon my holy hill of Zion.

7I will declare the decree: the LORD hath said unto me, THOUGH ART MY SON; AND THIS DAY I HAVE BEGOTTEN THEE.(during the baptism)

8Ask of me, and I shall give thee the heathen for thine inheritance, and the uttermost parts of the earth for thy possession.

9Thou shalt break them with a ROD OF IRON(see revelation); thou shalt dash them in pieces like a potter's vessel.

10Be wise now therefore, O ye kings: be instructed, ye judges of the earth.

11Serve the LORD with fear, and rejoice with trembling.

12Kiss THE SON, lest HE BE ANGRY, and YE PERISH from THE WAY, when HIS WRATH is KINDLED BUT A LITTLE. BLESSED ARE THEY THAT PUT THEIR TRUST INHIM.

this is confirmed at the baptism where all THREE forces are seen as ONE.

and during the temptation JESUS did not tell SATAN he was GOD because THERE would BE NO TEMPTATION if this were to happen. JEHOVAH was made less than the ANGELS (IN THE FORM OF JESUS) in order to be a sacrificial LAMB. yet he still existed in eternity and in spirit.

NOT TAUGHT IN THE TORAH?.. all the list of verses i gave you before and told you to dwell on are FROM THE TORAH.. in-case you didn't notice

reply to post by SOILDERSUNITEDFORCHRIST

Jehovah the "old GOD" as you call him is not against "JESUS". even if you dont agree with the trinity this is clear that the father sent him to be worshiped. i don't know where you get this nonsense from.

"HE THAT BELIEVETH ON ME, BELIEVETH NOT ON ME, BUT ON HIM THAT SENT ME. AND HE THAT SEETH ME. SEETH HIM THAT SENT ME"

Originally posted by jmdewey60
reply to post by SOILDERSUNITEDFORCHRIST

 

Jehovah the "old GOD" as you call him is not against "JESUS". even if you dont agree with the trinity this is clear that the father sent him to be worshiped. i don't know where you get this nonsense from.

"HE THAT BELIEVETH ON ME, BELIEVETH NOT ON ME, BUT ON HIM THAT SENT ME. AND HE THAT SEETH ME. SEETH HIM THAT SENT ME"

reply to post by SOILDERSUNITEDFORCHRIST

YESHUA

That's not in there either.
There is someone named, Jesus. He is called in various books of the NT, the son of God.
I apparently missed the part where it says he IS God.

reply to post by jmdewey60


well you have not been paying attention than, it is exactly why i added it to my signature.(the last sentence in case your slower than i thought)

Originally posted by SOILDERSUNITEDFORCHRIST
reply to post by jmdewey60

 

well you have not been paying attention than, it is exactly why i added it to my signature.(the last sentence in case your slower than i thought)

You need to read the verses that come after that.

For I have not spoken from my own authority, but the Father himself who sent me has commanded me what I should say and what I should speak. And I know that his commandment is eternal life. Thus the things I say, I say just as the Father has told me.”

Originally posted by jmdewey60

Originally posted by SOILDERSUNITEDFORCHRIST
reply to post by jmdewey60

 

well you have not been paying attention than, it is exactly why i added it to my signature.(the last sentence in case your slower than i thought)

You need to read the verses that come after that.

For I have not spoken from my own authority, but the Father himself who sent me has commanded me what I should say and what I should speak. And I know that his commandment is eternal life. Thus the things I say, I say just as the Father has told me.”

i think these verses prove my point even deeper.

reply to post by SOILDERSUNITEDFORCHRIST

i think these verses prove my point even deeper.

Go ahead and explain how it makes your point.
And what is your point again, to be clear? Jesus is the NT version of Jehovah?
I thought that for a while and discarded the idea as soon as I realized people used this sort of thinking to excuse their sinfulness. The rationale being that Jesus was not an example of overcoming sin because it was impossible for him to sin, being God.

reply to post by jmdewey60


if you have not got the point by now.ill just leave it at that. i think you need to go back to page 6(where mt point started) and start over. i have made my point. it is clear that you dont even know who you worship(your against JEHOVA, your against JESUS) clearly you have a spirit of Antichrist. and seems like you been reading/listening to bible commentary's rather than reading the SWORD it self. don't discuss a topic you have no understanding on(that would be like me telling a wizard how to preform his magic) learn your basics before you attempt to discuss biblical theology. i mean you though HEZEKIAH destroyed the altars of THE MOST HIGH. when it was the pagan ones he destroyed, and brought back the ceremonies to Solomon's temple.Than you said you do believe in a trinity but not three GODS(WHICH IS MY POINT FROM THE BEGINNING). than you believe JESUS came to break a COVENANT. and there was no covenant for our sins it is a CURSE. you have Paul and Isahia all.mixed up. and you act like i havent made a point. like i said i will pray for your understanding.i cannot waste my time if you have not understood by now. GOD BLESS

reply to post by JB1234


you are using the watchtower society(Jehovah's witnesses. Masonic influenced) bible translation

I am coming back to this thread to see if people believe God cares what you call him.

It is my opinion that one must first define who/what is God.

For me....God is everything. No matter what language we compare...everything is ....everything. He is the most high of the warmest of light that reflects love in all he does and says. As a creator that has created everything.....he is everything. Should we call him love, light, everything?

I do not think...for a split second he cares what you call him....so as you believe....so be it.

Originally posted by SOILDERSUNITEDFORCHRIST
reply to post by jmdewey60

 

if you have not got the point by now.ill just leave it at that. i think you need to go back to page 6(where mt point started) and start over. i have made my point. it is clear that you dont even know who you worship(your against JEHOVA, your against JESUS) clearly you have a spirit of Antichrist.

Interesting, in that I think the same thing of you, now isn't that funny? Can you explain what the purpose of Jesus coming to this world was in the first place? I would take it as being to free us from the dominion we were under, one which had nothing to offer but death. Who was running this dominion we needed to be ransomed from? I would say it is the very same person who you are now equating Jesus to, so by you doing this, you nullify the work of Jesus by reversing the freedom he gained for us from that dominion by his sacrificial death, by placing us exactly under that same dominion. That would make you, in my eyes, the anti-christ. Now, at the same time I have to realize that my taking this position makes me libel to accusations of being a follower of Marcionism, so can not expect everyone to immediately get on-board with me.

and seems like you been reading/listening to bible commentary's rather than reading the SWORD it self.

I look at commenteries to see what verses they give as cross-references on a topic, but not to take their interpretation because I see them as being close to wrong all the time.

don't discuss a topic you have no understanding on

I post on ATS because they are able to support themselves through advertising, so are not dependent on a foundation where the board members can apply pressure to have posts they don't like removed.

(that would be like me telling a wizard how to preform his magic) learn your basics before you attempt to discuss biblical theology.

I have been doing that for fifty years. How long do you think it should take to learn the basics?

i mean you though HEZEKIAH destroyed the altars of THE MOST HIGH. when it was the pagan ones he destroyed, and brought back the ceremonies to Solomon's temple.

Apparently what you call "learning the basics" is being indoctrinated into a form of orthodoxy. If you think he was destroying "pagan ones" then Hezekiah would have to be a "pagan" too. He, himself offered sacrifices on those very altars.

Than you said you do believe in a trinity but not three GODS(WHICH IS MY POINT FROM THE BEGINNING).

Which is . . what? and don't say look at page 6 because I already did, unless your point is that there is no trinity and it is really one god, which would make you a Oneness believer. I believe in the NT which says there is one God and one Lord, who is the man, Jesus Christ.

than you believe JESUS came to break a COVENANT. and there was no covenant for our sins it is a CURSE.

Galatians 3:13
Christ redeemed us from the curse of the law by becoming a curse for us (because it is written, “Cursed is everyone who hangs on a tree”)
The curse comes from the Law which comes with a covenant. To be fully free from the curse, the covenant needs to be done away with. Jesus brought about and inaugurated through his own blood, the New Covenant, which caused that previous covenant to be old, and then fade away.

you have Paul and Isahia all.mixed up. and you act like i havent made a point. like i said i will pray for your understanding.i cannot waste my time if you have not understood by now. GOD BLESS

You know something? I'm not exactly stupid, so if I can not figure out what your message is, then I doubt too many other people do. You may want to try a little, if not for me, then to those who may by chance happen upon this thread and are at a loss as to what you are trying to say.