Why The Afterlife is a Fact.

reply to post by smithjustinb


Not true we never die. Being 'born' is just or spirit entering a body, before that our soul existed still and was alive and right before we are born our soul is merely in transit from its old dead body and its new born one.

I'm sorry but I don't know where heaven fits in here, but souls are always alive and upon death we enter a new body to begin another stage of our lives. Heaven may exists, but I believe that we are part of the universe and we are constantly alive within the universe, even when the universe collapses in on itself for example I believe our spirits still exists in the universe in some form.

Heaven may very well be simply the state where we transition into such a high level of density that everything appears beautiful, divine and perfect. I can't explain why I am so sure of this all, but since I was young I have just known about reincarnation like its instinct.

Originally posted by MamaJ
reply to post by smithjustinb

 

It is simple.....

It is obvious....

It is reasonable....

It is logical.....

Actually, it's simply an inductive argument with a flawed premise at very least. Simple? Yes. Obvious, reasonable and logical? Not quite.

Originally posted by djz3ro

Originally posted by NewAgeMan
reply to post by smithjustinb

 

No one can BE dead, that doesn't make any sense.

I think I speak for almost everyone when I say, huh?

A statement like that, especially posted on a site like ATS needs an explanation, hopefully one that doesn't start with "in the Bible..."

You don't speak for everyone. I understand perfectly, so I will help him explain this to you.

Notice he capitalized the word "BE". If you are non-existent (dead), the word "BE" implies that you exist and that is a contradiction. So you can't BE dead. You can die, but you can't BE dead.

Originally posted by smithjustinb

Originally posted by traditionaldrummer

Originally posted by smithjustinb
No. It is not your friend.

The proof is obvious.

You were non-existant before you were born and then you were born and you exist. That is life after non-existance. If it happened before, it is perfect logic that it can and it will happen again.

"Non-existent" is not a quality of me when I'm not alive. It describes a condition in which all qualities of me are vacant. If anything, the obvious proof is that there is no afterlife. Unless you can present evidence beyond a flawed logical argument.

I can't see how this is illogical even if I try, and I'm usually a fairly neutral person.

Non-existence is the quality of their being no quality and even disclusive to that quality. Before you were born, unless there is an intermediate existence between lives, you were non-existent, and after you die, you will be non-existent. How is that logic flawed?

The logic is flawed because you assume that post-mortem non-existence retains some part of "you" that not only survives death but eventually reincarnates. If there's any portion of a "you" left that survives death then you are not non-existent.

reply to post by smithjustinb

I really like your thinking, here's mine.
Before you were 'born' you were non existant, after you 'die' you are non existant and during 'life' you are non existant. You are no 'thing'. During deep sleep you are non existant, you are no 'thing' and there are no 'things' appearing. 'Things' appear and dissappear. They do this in space that has always been present. The 'things' (including the character you think you are) are appearing and disappearing. The space in which they appear and disappear is nothing or non existant, space can not appear and disappear it was, is and always will be. That space is aware of all the comings and goings.

I was contemplating heaven and hell today and the fact that people are hedging their bets and concerned where they will go, heaven or hell, after they die. I realized that whereever they are when they die (is life heavenly or is it hellish?) will be where they 'go'. Heaven is a place on earth. It is nowhere. Now-here.

Namaste.

So we were all waiting to have a body when the first humans came about?
I don't see this as evidence of an afterlife althouhg i am sure there is somehting to the afterlife.

reply to post by smithjustinb


What would allow you to be reborn? surely a new person would take over your place in existence while you are rotting in the ground.

Your logic is off, I'm afraid.

Imagine you bake a cake. The cake did not exist before you baked it. Once you eat the cake, it ceases to be a cake. That exact cake will never exist again. There will be cakes like it, but they won't be that cake.

It's gone, same with us, unless we are different to a cake in some fundamental way, like being more than just a physical thing.

The way we might be different to a cake in this way, is if either we have a soul, or if our consciousness exists outside of, and independent of, our material brain. But that's a different discussion. To prove the afterlife, you have to prove either of those cases, you can't do it with strange circular reasoning of the type you have come up with here.

Originally posted by traditionaldrummer

Originally posted by smithjustinb

Originally posted by traditionaldrummer

Originally posted by smithjustinb
No. It is not your friend.

The proof is obvious.

You were non-existant before you were born and then you were born and you exist. That is life after non-existance. If it happened before, it is perfect logic that it can and it will happen again.

"Non-existent" is not a quality of me when I'm not alive. It describes a condition in which all qualities of me are vacant. If anything, the obvious proof is that there is no afterlife. Unless you can present evidence beyond a flawed logical argument.

I can't see how this is illogical even if I try, and I'm usually a fairly neutral person.

Non-existence is the quality of their being no quality and even disclusive to that quality. Before you were born, unless there is an intermediate existence between lives, you were non-existent, and after you die, you will be non-existent. How is that logic flawed?

The logic is flawed because you assume that post-mortem non-existence retains some part of "you" that not only survives death but eventually reincarnates. If there's any portion of a "you" left that survives death then you are not non-existent.

You're wrong. I'm not saying this at all. I'm saying that when you die, you don't exist anymore. You're gone. That's it. Sayonora.

But.

I am saying there will be another you with no connection whatsoever to the previous life. It won't be the same you, but it will go from non-existence to existence. This is the accepted scientific process of birth. Non-existence---> Existence.

reply to: EVERYONE



Death happens. Identity ceases. Non-existence follows.

Then, out of the non-existence, you are born. It is not the same you as before. It is not that you have a soul that transcended death. It is simply that existence comes from non-existence and goes back to it. Once it goes back to it, you have the opportunity to exist again in the exact same process that allowed you to exist now.

It won't be your soul. It will just be another existence.

Originally posted by smithjustinb
You're wrong. I'm not saying this at all. I'm saying that when you die, you don't exist anymore. You're gone. That's it. Sayonora.

Then it terminates there.

But.

I am saying there will be another you with no connection whatsoever to the previous life. It won't be the same you, but it will go from non-existence to existence. This is the accepted scientific process of birth. Non-existence---> Existence.

So when did the previous "you" become the about-to-be-birthed "you" again?

Your conclusion violates your premise.

reply to post by Viking9019


You weren't really ever born, you always have been. Images, colors, movement, sound are all appearances like a dream that are seen by you. Different shapes and patterns constantly changing like a movie.
When you sleep at night the movie changes to a differnt place, when you wake up you can recall the dream and you know it was not of this world.
We see people die in our dream but what we are never dies as it was never born. It was, it is and always will be.
The character will die but the awareness continues.

I wonder if all those souls flying around are what create the phetan levels that scientologists believe in.

Most of what they believe sounds far fetched (dont they all) but part of what they say is 'alien' souls are floating around earth and attach themselves to our body's. Depending on the past lives of the 'souls' determines how your life is, health, luck, mentality etc. People who join Scientology get 'audited' by holding two bean tins and pay £££££/$$$$$ to have the bad phetans removed, then you're 'perfect'!

A lot of the religions seem to have bits that tie together, or parts of a Chinese whisper from many moons ago.

Originally posted by Viking9019
So we were all waiting to have a body when the first humans came about?
I don't see this as evidence of an afterlife althouhg i am sure there is somehting to the afterlife.

No. There was no "we", and there was no "waiting".

Humans came about. Then one dies. Fades away into non-existence. Then one is born. Arises from non-existence.

The fact in all this is the fact that existence and come from non-existence.

Originally posted by traditionaldrummer

Originally posted by smithjustinb
You're wrong. I'm not saying this at all. I'm saying that when you die, you don't exist anymore. You're gone. That's it. Sayonora.

Then it terminates there.

Yes. Your life ends at death.

But.

I am saying there will be another you with no connection whatsoever to the previous life. It won't be the same you, but it will go from non-existence to existence. This is the accepted scientific process of birth. Non-existence---> Existence.

So when did the previous "you" become the about-to-be-birthed "you" again?

Your conclusion violates your premise.

The previous me ceases action and existence at death. But life can arise from non-existence. So at the point of me not existing, in a continuous state of non-existence, there is the opprotunity to exist.

Originally posted by smithjustinb
reply to: EVERYONE



Death happens. Identity ceases. Non-existence follows.

Then, out of the non-existence, you are born. It is not the same you as before. It is not that you have a soul that transcended death. It is simply that existence comes from non-existence and goes back to it. Once it goes back to it, you have the opportunity to exist again in the exact same process that allowed you to exist now.

What if who "you" are is in some way connected to a particular configuration of matter, created and kicked off in a very particular way? Why would you think "you" would exist, and not just an infinite chain of "different" people who aren't you in any way, just like there are billions of people who aren't you right now, and have been right throughout history?

Look at my previous example of the cake. Once you bake a cake, and then eat it, that exact cake will never exist again because not only are its parts gone, but its exact configuration of matter will never exist again.

The fact you say we didn't exist, and then existed, makes it obvious that it's possible to not-exist for a period of time. You give no reason to assume you will then exist again.

Originally posted by smithjustinb
No. There was no "we", and there was no "waiting".

Humans came about. Then one dies. Fades away into non-existence. Then one is born. Arises from non-existence.

The fact in all this is the fact that existence and come from non-existence.

You're not describing an afterlife.
You're describing a contingent process.

reply to post by smithjustin


We are not born the day we come into this world. It is a learned process, to become an individual, to be a person, a persona. A separate identity is learned and when we start calling ourselves I is the day we are born. An image has been made, we have an image of ourselves in our heads, we 'think' we know who we are but we are never sure. This image that has been made, built, has to be maintained and adhered to, it makes a slave of you. It is only this image that will die at death. What you really are was never born.

Dissolve that image it is not true. I think it says in the Bible 'Make no images of me'. That me is you.

Originally posted by traditionaldrummer

Originally posted by smithjustinb
No. There was no "we", and there was no "waiting".

Humans came about. Then one dies. Fades away into non-existence. Then one is born. Arises from non-existence.

The fact in all this is the fact that existence and come from non-existence.

You're not describing an afterlife.
You're describing a contingent process.

Maybe. It is a process that allows for another existence after existence goes into non-existence. So it is a life after death. It may or may not be contingent, but the fact is: The opportunity for existence comes from non-existence and death puts you in non-existence thereby giving you that opprotunity.

Dude. This is pretty straightforward.

Originally posted by smithjustinb

The previous me ceases action and existence at death. But life can arise from non-existence.

What happens if we apply extreme circumstances to your theory?

Let's say that a huge object from space strikes the earth and completely disintegrates the planet, thereby destroying all life as we know it. You are now non existent. By what mechanism do you begin to exist again? What happens if there is never a method to exist again? Are we trapped in this afterlife?