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Why The Afterlife is a Fact.

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posted on Oct, 7 2011 @ 08:30 PM
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For deductive logic to work, or aristotalean logic, you use a syllogism, now days they call that boolean algebra, etc.
i.e. a is b; b is c; therefore, a is c.
For a syllogism to be correct, the parts have to be TRUE, and VALID.
OPs syllogism seems to be valid.
The only way you could prove his argument to be not true, would be to prove that 'before you are born, you are non-existent'
is not true.
So, how can you do that?
If you can't do that, you can't prove his argument to be false.
Someone is trying to argue that the OPs point is sophistry, but, I don't personally see that.




posted on Oct, 7 2011 @ 08:36 PM
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To Calabi - I was interested in your comments. It has been well established in a lot of research that the illuminati use sex as a tool. One reason for their obsession with sex is to create a life - through particular sex rituals - for a soul to inhabit. Not for me but I find it correlates to why sex is everywhere in the media.

Much Peace...



posted on Oct, 7 2011 @ 08:39 PM
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Unfortunately, this doesn't render the concept of an afterlife factual. It's certainly a valid opinion and conjecture, though.

I've often thought that because we come into the world evidently knowing nothing, helpless, and totally reliant on adults, and then grow into beings with access to more information, more self-awareness, the ability to form thoughts and perform complex actions, yet then lose all of that in the end, that perhaps it's part of a repeating cycle of some kind (whatever form that may take.)

That potential implication doesn't make it a fact, though. This is a non-sequitur obecause you are affirming the consequent. It's like saying, "Firemen put out fires, so when a fire truck drove by five minutes ago, they must have been going to put out a fire." That's not an unreasonable implication, but it's not necessarily factual. They could have been going anywhere.

Likewise, just because we come out of apparent nonexistence and emerge into life, this does not mean that our passage back out of life into nonexistence (if that's even what happens) guarantees that some sort of an afterlife is assured.

Moreover, there are ways to look at birth other than emerging from nonexistence. The universe exists (that's not nonexistence.) On Earth, an ecosystem exists. That ecosystem has included human life forms for hundreds of thousands of years. Human life forms procreate. Procreation causes new humans to manifest from the existing ones. In other words, one way of looking at it is to say that we did not emerge from nonexistence at our births, but rather than we emerged from an ongoing process of life and procreation. That we did not come out of nothingness; we instead came out of our parents' reproductive cells and the nutrition and cellular growth within our mother's womb. That isn't nothingness. Every part of our body, including our brain where our consciousness arguably resides, is comprised of material that already existed.

And it's most definitely possible (not assured, as I have no way to know, hence my agnosticism) that when our brains deteriorate, our consciousness ceases to function. Likewise, it's possible and conceivable that somehow our consciousness, being an emergent property, in some way, shape, or form persists in another state or dimension or something. But there is no absolute proof of this. For every piece of evidence to suggest that this might happen, there are scientific, biological explanations that could account for the things people have experienced. That's the damning thing about it. There is evidence for both scenarios, but no proof.

Despite a lifetime of seeking, study, meditation, and prayer in multiple religions, paths, theories, and practices (including no path or structure at all, as well as those of my own creation) and after studying the neurology of the human brain, the cognitive components of the human mind, research into free will, and everything else I could get my hands on - to the extent possible for a non-grad layperson - I have never seen any compelling proof either for or against the existence of an afterlife or the supernatural. So I remain agnostic and skeptical, but open minded to all possibilities. I can’t assert for a fact that some form of afterlife does or does not exist.

All I know with certainty is this: I’ll either find out when I die, or I’ll cease to exist and then won’t be there to care one way or the other. Obviously, I hope it’s the former rather than the latter.


EDIT to add: Actually, I suppose a third possibility is that there's a form of afterlife in which one is unaware somehow. In which case, I wouldn't know, would I? Lol.
edit on 10/7/2011 by AceWombat04 because: Reason for edit given in topic.



posted on Oct, 7 2011 @ 08:44 PM
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To malachi777 - I too had my tonsils removed later in life and I am sorry you had to suffer so much. I too have had a death experience and for me it was - straight to the light. Lots of Souls on either side of me stacked up just like bricks in a wall. I was ready to accept my death and as I am Spiritual and may not have completed my lessons/mission/purpose on Earth I offered to be reincarnated. A peaceful voice stated to me that there was not time for reincarnation. I hovered (wish I could hover on planet Earth) and enjoyed the peace I was feeling and as I decided to return the wall of Souls on my left moved to make room - at exactly the same time I literally slipped/slid down & I woke up in the ambulance - which is where I had heard the ambulance officer say - 70 and dropping.

All I can say about my experience of death - beautiful & peaceful. I have been embraced by our Creator and our Creator is perfect.

Much Peace...



posted on Oct, 7 2011 @ 08:48 PM
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Originally posted by smithjustinb
Its simple.

Before you were born, you were dead, and now you are alive.


No, before I was born... Or rather before I was conceived, I simply did not exist. You can't die if you are not alive.

You can't be dead before you are created. But after you are created, you can die and go right back into non-existence.

What I am saying is just as logical, if not more so than what you just said.

Fact is, we don't know what happens after we die and we don't even know if souls or what have you exist. We know that a person can be conceived and born and that they live and die. But what you present does not suggest anything as fact.

It suggests you believe that we exist before we are born and after we die.... But really... we don't know that just yet.

Personally, I hope you are right.... For what that is worth.

And I did used to believe in Reincarnation an after life and all that... Now days though, I am not so sure.



posted on Oct, 7 2011 @ 08:54 PM
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posted on Oct, 7 2011 @ 08:56 PM
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reply to post by gimme_some_truth
 




signature:
The one thing that never changes is the fact that things will always change.



posted on Oct, 7 2011 @ 08:56 PM
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there is only one of us really here...in every single being that is alive, when you get right down to the bottom of 'life'....there is really only 'one' that is experiencing all of this.

only 'god' is...we are just a expression of Thee-



posted on Oct, 7 2011 @ 09:07 PM
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This is hooey, you're having to make assumptions of non-existance before you existed, and to say that once you die, you will exist again, that is both perpetuation and annihilation in the same breath and to believe that you have to prove then that you never existed before which is impossible, at least as we know it currently in a 'factual way' Genetically speaking is a altogether different thing, as it doesn't deal with a you or me, but evolutionary algorithm, and is as near as you'll get to any scientific 'fact'
In other words, you should have out the word 'fact' in your post.



posted on Oct, 7 2011 @ 09:21 PM
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Originally posted by Amanda5
To malachi777 - I too had my tonsils removed later in life and I am sorry you had to suffer so much. I too have had a death experience and for me it was - straight to the light. Lots of Souls on either side of me stacked up just like bricks in a wall. I was ready to accept my death and as I am Spiritual and may not have completed my lessons/mission/purpose on Earth I offered to be reincarnated. A peaceful voice stated to me that there was not time for reincarnation. I hovered (wish I could hover on planet Earth) and enjoyed the peace I was feeling and as I decided to return the wall of Souls on my left moved to make room - at exactly the same time I literally slipped/slid down & I woke up in the ambulance - which is where I had heard the ambulance officer say - 70 and dropping.

All I can say about my experience of death - beautiful & peaceful. I have been embraced by our Creator and our Creator is perfect.

Much Peace...


Ive had to think alot about such experiences...I witnessed the bedside of my mother while she had 9 hours of visions while her kidneys failed her. The visions were strong and deep. They were personal to her. It was as real as real can seem.

But in the understanding that only the great spirit of life itself, is without beginning and end...I have to reconsider what is going on when people have these experiences. If you think about it, some of our dreams seem very real, as if its another world or dimension. This tells us, we are creators while in this instrument of a mind and body. We have the ability to create and experience our creation....because of the image of 'being' we were made of and.

Just thoughts though...
LV



posted on Oct, 7 2011 @ 09:39 PM
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First Law of Thermodynamics. End of discussion.



posted on Oct, 7 2011 @ 09:44 PM
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You are not conscious of what is going on when you are dead. What does it matter if the ego isn't around to give your energy a coherent individual identity? Knowing I'll return back to the One Soul (just made that term up) makes me feel all warm and cozy, but I like the consciousness of the now.



posted on Oct, 7 2011 @ 09:44 PM
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Originally posted by smithjustinb
Hello everyone. I am the OP. Pretty much everything I have to say has been said in the previous 12 pages of this thread. If you have any direct replies to me, please review the previous 12 pages of this thread. I see a lot of the same questions being repeated over and over again, so the answer you seek from me is in the previous 12 pages of this thread.


Listen captain all caps, you never answered my question about endangered species. On pg2 & 12. Your thread went in like 7 different directions with everyone's own opinions about the afterlife. People have given examples how your argument does not work. I'll post what is wrong again - "after this, therefore because of this" fallacy.




edit on 7-10-2011 by juveous because: (no reason given)



posted on Oct, 7 2011 @ 09:45 PM
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Dead does not equal not alive.

Rock = not alive.
Corpse = dead.
Rock =/= Corpse.

The rock never had life to begin with. The Corpse, on the other hand, had life and then it died.

So, what is to say that we simply started out as dust and had life 'breathed' into us by God? Or that some electrons and protons got frisky and sparked something that made something not alive into something alive?

But the fact remains that your logic is wrong. We were not dead before we were alive; we were not alive before we were alive. Whatever our 'not alive' existence entails, we have no way of knowing. We also can't say that because once we die we are not alive that that is somehow equitable with our existence before life. We have no way of knowing if those two situations (before and after death), even though they both entail not-life, have anything in common with each other.



posted on Oct, 7 2011 @ 09:55 PM
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reply to post by smithjustinb
 


This pretzel logic proves nothing, IMO. Really it's playing with word meanings. The main flaw is the idea that death is non-existence. Death is the natural outcome of a living organism that for what ever reason can no longer survive in it's environment. Even after death the organism still exists, just not in a living form. Even if it becomes the dust that fertilizes a flower.

Before birth, the organism was not dead. The necessary organic interactions had not yet taken place for it's existence to take place. That is not death, that is unfulfilled potential of life, and if one thing is true of death, it is that it has no potential of life.

Pre-life and post- life are not the same thing even though they in a sense have a similar effect, absence of life.



posted on Oct, 7 2011 @ 10:02 PM
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Originally posted by rickyrrr

Originally posted by smithjustinb
Its simple.

Before you were born, you were dead, and now you are alive. So when you die again, it makes perfect logic sense that you will have another opprotunity for life.

Now, that doesn't mean that there is a heaven or hell, it simply means there is definitely life after death as before this life, you were dead, or not alive (same thing), and now you're alive. Life after death.
edit on 6-10-2011 by smithjustinb because: (no reason given)


To put it another way using different words:
There is non-existence before and after life. The fact that non-existence preceded life implies the FACT that life can arise from non-existence. Since this is the case, then the period of non-existence after this life has the opportunity for another life arising. It's simple and it's obvious.
edit on 6-10-2011 by smithjustinb because: (no reason given)

edit on 6-10-2011 by smithjustinb because: (no reason given)


Of course there is life after death. But that is as long as you accept that there is no I.

Somebody else gets to live next time. We are all one. Ego is an illusion.

-rrr


What if this isn't true Life and once our body ceases to function, We wake up in our True Lifeform to realize the illusion We just expeienced?


Ribbit



posted on Oct, 7 2011 @ 10:05 PM
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Originally posted by smithjustinb
Its simple.

Before you were born, you were dead, and now you are alive. So when you die again, it makes perfect logic sense that you will have another opprotunity for life.

Now, that doesn't mean that there is a heaven or hell, it simply means there is definitely life after death as before this life, you were dead, or not alive (same thing), and now you're alive. Life after death.
edit on 6-10-2011 by smithjustinb because: (no reason given)


To put it another way using different words:
There is non-existence before and after life. The fact that non-existence preceded life implies the FACT that life can arise from non-existence. Since this is the case, then the period of non-existence after this life has the opportunity for another life arising. It's simple and it's obvious.
edit on 6-10-2011 by smithjustinb because: (no reason given)

edit on 6-10-2011 by smithjustinb because: (no reason given)
. Get out of my head!!!!!!!



posted on Oct, 7 2011 @ 10:35 PM
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There is scientific evidence that the brain is also a receiver/transmitter and antenna of sorts, albeit very loose evidence but enough to cause a lot of research into an area that science really knows little about.

So, if this is in deed correct, and some day we can prove this mechanism in our brains, what is it communicating with?
I think this discovery will be the introduction to the next major step in our evolution, if we can last that long.

There are some researchers who claim that this is indeed a fact today, however there is no scientific agreement, or sustainable results to publish anything definitive about the nature of such a mechanism. The subject is truly interesting and I think there will be a lot more to read about this in the immediate future.



posted on Oct, 7 2011 @ 10:43 PM
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reply to post by spacekc929
 


The rock never had life to begin with.


Really?



posted on Oct, 7 2011 @ 10:59 PM
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reply to post by smithjustinb
 

I think maybe you had a few bongs, or watched the Matrix too often, or both.

Let me keep it simple, before birth we or don't exist, then we do, then we die and actually no longer exist, and that means, somehow in some twisted logic we get reborn or come into existence again?
I dont think so buddy, it just means we no longer exist when we die. Sorry to disappoint you.

edit on 7-10-2011 by we2rborg because: (no reason given)



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