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Dalai Lama cancels SA trip over Visa: ANC subservience to China or Marxist Conspiracy?

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posted on Oct, 6 2011 @ 02:54 PM
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This week got off to a rocky start in South Africa, as the Dalai Lama cancelled his trip to SA over a clearly non-forthcoming Visa.
He was supposed to attend the 80th birthday of Archbishop Emeritus Desmond Tutu, give various talks at academic institutions and receive the Gandhi peace prize.
www.iol.co.za...

For a while now it has been apparent that the ANC (who had already refused the Dalai Lama a Visa in 2009) did not want to upset its biggest trading partner: The People's Republic of China.
The incident was met with harsh criticism and protests from civil pressure groups and academics.

The Archbishop was so angry that he completely lost it at a press conference, and made some of the most critical statements against the ANC and their support for tyrannical governments yet.
He called them worse than apartheid, and said the people would pray for their downfall, just as they had prayed for the downfall of the previous regime.

The ANC meanwhile (rather typically) said the Lama was too rash in cancelling his trip 3 days ahead of the event, and that his long sought-after Visa was being processed by the relevant authorities (an excuse nobody believes).
While some of the ANC supporters find this conduct satisfying in that it safeguards SA's trade with the touchy Chinese, most critics find this is a worrying interference in civil society in the interests of an undemocratic country. To concerned South Africans it's a sign of a wider tendency by the ANC to not only support undemocratic regimes, but also in becoming more like them, with draconian laws on press freedom in the pipeline.

I was surprised that some Christian websites that lean towards the right have another conspiracy about the events.
They claim that the Dalai Lama is only partly Buddhist, and also partly Marxist, and that the Lama, the Archbishop and the Chinese conspired to make these events big news.
Thereby the Archbishop and the Lama (who are one-world religion "anti-Christ" Marxist fronts) get to push their books and propaganda, while China and the ANC get to push the same Marxism.
For more on this conspiracy see:
tia-mysoa.blogspot.com...
edit on 6-10-2011 by halfoldman because: (no reason given)




posted on Oct, 6 2011 @ 03:08 PM
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The Archbishop goes medieval on the ANC on Tuesday (a short version):



Many South Africans, including some in the ANC felt that he reflected our sentiments and outrage.

However, some Christians on the right say this was just an act (see second link above) to further wider Marxist propaganda in the guise of "interfaith" religion.
edit on 6-10-2011 by halfoldman because: (no reason given)



posted on Oct, 6 2011 @ 03:12 PM
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reply to post by halfoldman
 


As an ex-patriate (not of political reasons), and helping some other liberation movements over the world, I can only sympathize with Desmond Tutu. For many other resistance movements, the new SA government is a total disappointment. The onliest person that they stood by during the struggle, that is still standing with them today, is Desmond Tutu. The SA government, in my opinion, as well as that of a lot of other resistance movements, are puppets of China. Take for example Burma, the Burmese resistance stood with the ANC all the way until apartheid fell, but when the ANC could vote in the UN resolution, who did the ANC vote for???? yes, you have it, China.... There are some well-founded conspirist theories out there (just Google it), about China wanting to take over Africa, so of course, it is no surprise that the current SA government, like so many other sub-Saharan countries, are puppets of the Chinese government ....



posted on Oct, 6 2011 @ 03:15 PM
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Yeah - this week has certainly been "interesting" for SA...

I must admit that I totally loved Desmond Tutu's attack against the ANC and that this saga is adding another proverbial nail to the ANC's coffin. Ha ha - couple that with Malema's hilarious stay in hospital for "flu-like symptoms" where he "is in a stable condition" and has requested postponement of his hearing - a laugh-a-minute-week-in-SA-politics...

Back to the topic on hand. Certainly an interesting conspiracy theory... and whilst I am a keen conspiracy theorist, I must admit that I am not so keen on this one... the Dalai Lama is just too pure in my opinion - and remains in my mind an infallible and true spiritual leader.

However, had these people contrived some suspicious conspiracy theory about Mr. Malema (like he is a chinese reptilian space-agent in disguise bent on unleashing the colonialist anti-christ with end-of-times tendencies), I would have wholeheartedly agreed, even if there were no facts to substantiate the story... I suppose that makes me a bad person hey? Gotta love politics.



posted on Oct, 6 2011 @ 03:33 PM
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Two excellent replies, thank you both.

There are so many conspiracy angles in SA that it's not even necessary to include a right-political conspiracy.
The fact that the ANC clearly denied the Visa (and now deny that they clearly denied it) is shocking enough.
It's shocking that they think we are so gullible.
Yes, and this after dubious ANC actions regarding Zimbabwe, Libya, Myanmar, and also this week Syria.
The criticism is growing.

As an HIV-positive person I have my own speculations on the flu-like symptoms of Malema.
On that note, have a look at some pictures of an ailing President Zuma.
It could be anything of course, but maybe that shower wasn't a good method of prevention after all.
Still, these are not the images we the people are ever shown:
censorbugbear-reports.blogspot.com...




edit on 6-10-2011 by halfoldman because: (no reason given)



posted on Oct, 6 2011 @ 03:38 PM
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reply to post by halfoldman
 


Please don't call Burma Myanmar .... the Burmese takes really a LOT of offense to that. Most Burmese, except for the junta, will call it Burma until they die...



posted on Oct, 6 2011 @ 03:42 PM
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reply to post by Hellhound604
 

Well, I'm sorry, don't mean to offend anyone, but that is what they call it on the news.



posted on Oct, 6 2011 @ 03:45 PM
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Originally posted by Hellhound604
reply to post by halfoldman
 


yes, you have it, China.... There are some well-founded conspirist theories out there (just Google it), about China wanting to take over Africa, so of course, it is no surprise that the current SA government, like so many other sub-Saharan countries, are puppets of the Chinese government ....



Yes, you are absolutely spot-on. I found some of these snippets of information (especially with regard to some major Chinese investments on African soil) very interesting.

One has to admit that if one had to be placed in the shoes of a leader who is responsible for housing, clothing and feeding a billion and more people, the most obvious and strategic move would be to gain ground and power on a huge, sparsely-populated and resource-rich continent - especially if such a continent is renowned for its poor and easily-manipulated leadership.



posted on Oct, 6 2011 @ 03:49 PM
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reply to post by halfoldman
 


NP, and I hope you didn't take any offense in me correcting you. I know what they call Burma in some other countries .... Sometimes you only learn things if you deal directly with the persons involved, and as an HIV-positive person, you would know all about that. God, sometimes I just wonder why everybody just cannot live together in peace, respect each other, and tolerate each others viewpoints, and try to understand it....




posted on Oct, 6 2011 @ 03:50 PM
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China is definitely using the political capital it has gained by investments in Africa and trade with SA to marginalize the Dalai Lama as much as possible. They have even "leaned" on President Obama.



posted on Oct, 6 2011 @ 04:06 PM
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Originally posted by halfoldman
There are so many conspiracy angles in SA that it's not even necessary to include a right-political conspiracy.


You are absolutely correct. I also believe that the fundamental Christians in SA will do anything in their power to promote an negative image of that "shocking evil-doer", His Holiness the Dalai Lama.

Why, just yesterday I was listening to RSG radio (I tuned in for Max du Preez's take on the story). They were inviting sms responses from listeners to the Dalai Lama saga. Most sms responses were as expected i.e. "The ANC was wrong", "who are they to think they can delude us", "allow the old man to have a cup of tea with his friend" etc. etc.

BUT - the one-dimensional thought-patterns with regard to the Dalai Lama also surfaced quite prominently from the small piece of still-conservative "right-winger" Afrikaans society. A lady sms'sed that it is a SIN to even consider that a heathen such as the Dalai Lama should be invited onto OUR holy soil, and that Desmond Tutu should watch out for the sanctity of his own soul - as he is trodding his way into hell by supporting this heathen from the east.

My response? First shock at the harshness of these words... then I guffawed loudly. Blimey. It is because of responses such as this one that I do believe that any Christian-based conspiracy theory surrounding the Dalai Lama that originates from our country should be considered with a grain of salt.


As an HIV-positive person I have my own speculations on the flu-like symptoms of Malema.
On that note, have a look at some pictures of an ailing President Zuma.


Very interesting observation!



posted on Oct, 6 2011 @ 04:11 PM
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reply to post by shimmeringsilver73
 


I find it so weird that some of those very right-wing christian people would find it in their minds to go with the ANC on this ...... I think I would have pissed myself if I was in SA rubbing it into them, that THEY, those very same Christians that believed all liberals were so evil, would align themselves with their arch-enemies over a real holy man......



posted on Oct, 6 2011 @ 04:21 PM
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Originally posted by Hellhound604
reply to post by shimmeringsilver73
 


I find it so weird that some of those very right-wing christian people would find it in their minds to go with the ANC on this ...... I think I would have pissed myself if I was in SA rubbing it into them, that THEY, those very same Christians that believed all liberals were so evil, would align themselves with their arch-enemies over a real holy man......


It is absolutely rickrollingly hilarious, isn't it!!!

Just goes to show - to these people NOTHING touches the institution that is their belief system and their bible. The necessity to keep their institution's integrity intact far outweighs the cons of siding with their enemies - even basic logic gets cast outta the window in the process.



posted on Oct, 6 2011 @ 04:34 PM
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China seems to run concurrent with fundamentalist Christianity in ANC influences.
The fundamentalist angle to all this is actually hardly explored.

One thinks of growing religious metaphors in ANC electioneering, such as "The ANC will rule until Jesus returns".
Then we had the whole Jon Qwelane saga, and how the self-confessed homophobe was made the ambassador of Uganda (another country heavily influenced by US radical fundamentalist Christians).

And last but not least, we had the appointment of Justice Mogoeng Mogoeng, known for throwing out cases of marital and child rape, and a councilor in a church that believes gays can be healed.
articles.latimes.com...
The head of our Constitutional Court is now a conservative Christian from a charismatic ideology.

I'm finding this mixture of influences astounding and confusing.
But I guess it's bees around honey, and the money and the power and mind-control.

It seems that the ANC played it's cards right.
A large silent majority of South Africans perhaps are glad the Dalai Lama didn't arrive, albeit for seemingly different reasons.
Perhaps the true liberals are very vocal, but not in the majority, and a lot of people would like to see more of a dictatorship.
edit on 6-10-2011 by halfoldman because: (no reason given)



posted on Oct, 6 2011 @ 04:38 PM
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reply to post by halfoldman
 


lol, ok .... you guys just made me realize that I am starting to get out of touch with SA....... not sure if I should laugh or cry..... Cry because I always believed SA could become a fantastic country if everybody put their minds to it, or laugh hysterically (because I don't know what else to do), because the things the right wing warned about is happening ....



edit on 6/10/2011 by Hellhound604 because: (no reason given)



posted on Oct, 6 2011 @ 04:50 PM
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reply to post by halfoldman
 


I think you have very profound insight into our politics, and definitely a bigger grasp on it than me!!!

I reckon that if any Americans wanted to pass some of their less-decorated and much-complained-about politicians our way - we would only be too grateful to do some swapping!



posted on Oct, 6 2011 @ 08:02 PM
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reply to post by Hellhound604
 

Good point, but with "right-wing" there are multiple meanings, just as the label "liberal" is bandied about.

"Right-wing" could mean a traditional sense of religious white people, who want to isolate themselves from the ANC rule and the other population groups in SA.
So that "right-wing" could include everything from disillusioned and suddenly panicked white people, to the AWB.
Even opposition parties are sometimes displaced by the ANC as "right-wing".
Afriforum is often painted as right-wing, when they just helped out many blacks who had their shoddy RDP houses destroyed by a tornado.
Mostly it refers to whites who realize the ANC is albophobic in it's policies, or whites who want to start organizing as an indigenous minority that has been in SA for over 300 hundred years, but they still want to make a contribution without feeling forced to integrate, especially when they feel unwelcome.
Then it also includes a variety of more intense groups, like the AWB.
Some hardcore minority sects ultimately have completely unique interpretations of the Bible linked to white identity teachings.

"Right-wing" could also refer to US fundamentalist religion, which has no racist teaching, but is often offered in segregationist terms.
It denies being racist, but is against African spirituality, competing religions and sects, and very anti-feminism and gay rights.
Right-wing religion tends to fuse with existing ideas, so in African culture preachers deal with witchcraft and curses, while the whites who follow Angus Buchan want to restore a militarized male patriarchy on women and gays.

There's a preacher in that market for almost every taste and focus, from white men in quasi-uniforms to Nigerian miracle-men in ethnic shirts.
They all tend to focus on the "prosperity gospel", where handing your cash over to the preacher (guru) is supposed to bless you.

But, is it really anti-communist?
Angus Buchan and some Nigerian preachers have been on TBN.
TBN seems to dish out the central concepts with its channel in SA.
TBN has made overtures to China since about 2002, when a storm of protest complained that it ignored the plight of independent Christians and house-churches in that country.
www.charismamag.com...

However, it began operations in Hong Kong in 2005.
www.tbn.org...

In a statement that one would have expected to leave Western Christians gasping for breath (but strangely it didn't), TBN patriarch Paul Crouch praised Chairman Mao:


Said Crouch: "We can thank the former revolutionary leader Mao Tse-tung for requiring all of China to understand the Mandarin language. Without such a requirement, TBN would be at a loss as how to communicate the programs to the masses in Hong Kong."

www.tbn.org...

So there we have it.
There is no clash between right-wing Christianity in the sense of US style Evangelical Fundamentalists, and the Marxist Chinese.
So perhaps we should not be confused by all these "holy socialists" who don't want the Dalai Lama after all.

edit on 6-10-2011 by halfoldman because: (no reason given)



posted on Oct, 6 2011 @ 08:22 PM
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Of course the irony is that TBN and the people on it, or associated with its message, still make a huge song and dance for their followers about the "oppressed" Christians in China.
They don't exactly highlight the truth.

But the commercial venture and mind-control are no longer at odds.

I just recall some charity material we received for a hand-out in impoverished areas last Christmas.
It came with boxes of Christian salvation booklets - all of them printed in China!
I guess that provides some clue to the new "openness".
edit on 6-10-2011 by halfoldman because: (no reason given)



posted on Oct, 7 2011 @ 03:42 AM
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Fri, Oct 07, 2011 - Page 8 
EDITORIAL: China winning around the world


www.taipeitimes.com/News/editorials/archives/2011/10/07/2003515098


China’s war of diplomacy has never stopped, despite President Ma Ying-jeou’s (馬英九) claims that his modus vivendi policy has put on hold a contest to woo each other’s allies. If anything, all the modus vivendi did was to take the game to a new level, where instead of trying to steal each other’s allies, they have focused their efforts on consolidating their gains over the past decade.

The new phase of China’s strategy to consolidate its diplomatic influence worldwide can readily be seen in South Africa’s refusal to grant Tibetan spiritual leader the Dalai Lama a visa to attend the 80th birthday of Archbishop Desmond Tutu.

Although the African National Congress (ANC)-led South African government would likely deny Chinese involvement in the bureaucratic red tape that blocked the Dalai Lama’s visa process — which Tutu’s office began applying for in June — the evidence points to Beijing.

As Ela Gandhi, granddaughter of Indian independence leader Mahatma Gandhi and a former South African member of parliament, has said: “Everybody thinks this is because of pressure from China.”

“It’s very sad another country is allowed to dictate terms to our government. It’s going back to apartheid times. I am ashamed of my own country,” she added.

(...)



posted on Oct, 7 2011 @ 04:02 AM
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reply to post by jjjtir
 

Yes indeed!
Thank you for a great post and point.

They are indeed consolidating.
It is not a case of big bad China watching what the ANC is doing.
The ANC did it it by choice, because they share this ideology!



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