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The Battle Between - OWS Critics and Supporters

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posted on Oct, 6 2011 @ 11:51 AM
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Or is there common ground?

We seem to be finding critics on every level for the OWS movement, but what the critics are missing is the fact that the protesters are doing something, misguided or not.

Yes the people are protesting anything and everything, but guess what? They have gotten up off of their collective lazy arses and actually did something, instead of arm chair quarterbacking and whining from the side lines.

These OWS people that seemingly have no direction are making others aware that something is transpiring.

Some people are so buried in debt, crappy jobs, paying bills, and eroding lifestyle they don’t have the time to realize who or what is directly, or indirect responsible, but movements like this seem to strike nerves and resonates with people worldwide.

So just maybe the OWS people and their efforts have woken up 10’s of thousands more, or maybe even Millions.

Does anyone remember the quiet kid in school, or the obnoxious kid that always caused a stir? Did he have a point or agenda, not really but he sure did get the attention.

So, in the spirit of the 1st amendment of the Constitution of the USA of America, and the disgruntled world masses, a token movement like OWS appears to have gained quite a bit of attention, organized or not.

And the people behind the movement are from all walks of life, religions, Ideals, political beliefs and ways of life, but have they all have one thing in common, they know their current way of sustainable living is eroding and are trying to seek a peaceful solution, because every other political, corporate, and religious avenue has failed them.

We don't have to buy into everything that OWS stands for, or even the certain themes that may be presented, but we have to give credit to them for doing something, even the critics have drawn attention to this movement by their frustrations, so in essence it's all good.

So if we strip away all the titles, status, riches, education and stereotyping what to we have?

Human Beings, so let's be Humane.



Peace Out,
RT

edit on 6-10-2011 by Realtruth because: (no reason given)




posted on Oct, 6 2011 @ 12:16 PM
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One song comes to mind with everything that is going on today.

Brilliant Lyrics and so much wisdom from this Davies Hodgson who wrote this song as a young man.

The only difference between a wise young man and an old one are just age.






The Logical Song lyrics
Songwriters: Davies, R; Hodgson, R;

When I was young
It seemed that life was so wonderful
A miracle, oh it was beautiful, magical
And all the birds in the trees
Well they'd be singing so happily
Joyfully, playfully watching me

But then they send me away
To teach me how to be sensible
Logical, responsible, practical
And then they showed me a world
Where I could be so dependable
Clinical, intellectual, cynical

There are times when all the world's asleep
The questions run too deep for such a simple man
Won't you please, please tell me what we've learned?
I know it sounds absurd but please tell me who I am

I say, "Now what would you say for they calling you a radical
Liberal, fanatical, criminal?"
Won't you sign up your name? We'd like to feel you're
Acceptable, respectable, presentable, a vegetable
Oh, ch-ch-check it out yeah

At night when all the world's asleep
The questions run so deep for such a simple man
Won't you please, please tell me what we've learned?
I know it sounds absurd but please tell me who I am
Who I am, who I am, who I am

'Coz I'm feeling so illogical
D-d-digital
Oh, oh, oh, oh
Unbelievable
B-b-bloody marvelous

edit on 6-10-2011 by Realtruth because: (no reason given)



posted on Oct, 6 2011 @ 12:17 PM
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Yeah, like the wars in Afghanistan and Iraq, I mean, what if we just sat on our butts after 9/11? At least we're doing something. I agree! Star and Flag!

/sarcasm

I don't think that this change is going to lead to anything good. First of all, "This is what democracy looks like!" is the cry of the crowds, and guess what? I don't care what democracy looks like, I live in a republic with inalienable rights, not majority rule.

I live in a country where a guy can make money without fear of being tossed into a crowd holding pitchforks because they were suckers in buying their houses, losing them, and somehow it's allright to push the blame on someone else.

No one wants to admit the most important thing. Government is of the people. by the people. These people have their right to free speech and expression of opinion, but I'm not about to hold their idiotic views to some silly inflated regard because they're doing something.

Real change is enacted through different channels. For instance, getting your local STEP program removed from your LEO is a good change, and one that won't be on the news. How about educating your neighbors on the dangers of flouride or other toxins? Maybe explaining how the war on drugs is a farce, because ( at least for heroin ) we could track the drugs from the fields they are grown on all the way to the end user with spacial recognition software, sattelites, and ground pounding detective work. I'm sorry, when was the last huge cartel busted? Oh yeah, that's right.

So pound bricks and cry for free education, healthcare and storm Washington making Obama a dictator. Or, you can vote for someone like Ron Paul, who is a strong candidate with great views. Except, either way you get a dictator. In order to enact the change either side wants, the only solution is a pseudo-dictator. Think about it, repealing the FED? Repealing laws? Cutting through the red tape? That would take a president an entirely stacked House and Judicial branch, or dictatorial powers. Don't worry, I'm sure that they willl relinquish those powers at an undisclosed time...

You are all insane, and deserve what you get. Here's looking at you OWS, enjoy the outcome because your movement is going to change, something. Maybe when you figure out what that is, you'll see my point.




posted on Oct, 6 2011 @ 12:29 PM
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I agree, but not everyone at OWS holds idiotic views, or at least they don't think so.


I would have to think that OWS is a catalyst, hopefully a good one.

Real change has been promised over and over and over, but it's all talk and no action.

How many lies does it take?

If I lied to everyone here at ATS and made up a BS story it ends up in the hoax bin, and I risk losing points, or worse being banned.

But politicians can lie through their teeth and still hold office? if they truly represent us, maybe we are just lying to ourselves and believe our on BS, so we get what we deserve.

I think people these days are grasping at straws and holding on to some type of belief system, because they do not know any other way, but communication is the key and they way things will get resolved.

What people are looking for is more self empowerment and they are realizing they shouldn't have to give up their power to an elite few, these masses of people are just not sure how to do it, hence OWS.



Originally posted by sbctinfantry
No one wants to admit the most important thing. Government is of the people. by the people. These people have their right to free speech and expression of opinion, but I'm not about to hold their idiotic views to some silly inflated regard because they're doing something.

Real change is enacted through different channels.

edit on 6-10-2011 by Realtruth because: (no reason given)



posted on Oct, 6 2011 @ 04:07 PM
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Realtruth,

I'll take your post seriously and assume that you are looking for common ground. Then, I will be honest and engage you in your good work of finding harmony. I find it difficult to support OWS because I don't know what it is.

Is OWS a group that wants somebody to do something? Who? The people of America? The government? The people with money? The world elite?

What does OWS want done? Riots? Legislation? Confiscation of wealth? Formation of a new party? Be a catalyst? Between where we are now, and what? Another Obama term? Socialism? Direct democracy? You're hoping it will be a good catalyst? It might be a bad one?


Originally posted by Realtruth
Real change has been promised over and over and over, but it's all talk and no action.


So I can assume that OWS's purpose is to get real change? Change in the legislative system, judicial, or executive? Or change something outside of government?


But politicians can lie through their teeth and still hold office? if they truly represent us, maybe we are just lying to ourselves and believe our on BS, so we get what we deserve.
I don't understand. Are you saying it should be easier to get rid of elected officials? That there shouldn't be elected officials? That we need a different system for choosing our officials?


I think people these days are grasping at straws and holding on to some type of belief system, because they do not know any other way, but communication is the key and they way things will get resolved.
Communication between the protesters and who? And what will get resolved?


What people are looking for is more self empowerment and they are realizing they shouldn't have to give up their power to an elite few, these masses of people are just not sure how to do it, hence OWS.
"[T]hese masses of people are not sure how to do it." Do you? Does anyone in OWS? Giving up power to an elite few? We elect an elite few. 535 in Congress and the president. Is that where the objection is? Or are you saying that people give up their power to rich people? Why do they have to do that? How do they do that?

I'm anxious to support good things, not unknown things. I'm seriously interested in learning.

Charles1952



posted on Oct, 6 2011 @ 04:15 PM
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Who is on other side ? Bill O'Reilly , Bernanke, Federal reserve, BoA, Jp Morgan, KBR, Greedy Bankers, war lovers ?

Which side you are on ?

Every good common citizen should support this




And first senator from 100 to stand for people




posted on Oct, 6 2011 @ 06:40 PM
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Make no mistake, both sides are a farce.

I've posted about it enough, time will tell.



posted on Oct, 6 2011 @ 07:55 PM
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reply to post by Realtruth
 


I could not have put it better.

Thank for this thread. (:



posted on Oct, 7 2011 @ 12:43 PM
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Agree or disagree with the overall views of OWS , it is certainly true that it's now drawing attention and that is not a bad thing. I like to see the people get up and do something (I agree, armchair quarterbacking gets old) and as a whole, we should be reminding the decision makers that people will only be pushed so far, before they will push back.

Many factors (positive, negative and neutral) contribute to this movement starting to snowball, but it does seem they've begun to identify some real targets (The Fed) as an example. I hope it continues to grow, I think it's time those in DC remember that the public will be heard...



posted on Oct, 7 2011 @ 12:54 PM
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reply to post by Realtruth
 


I support the energy the OWS movement is creating...and that's about it.

I don't support their "cause"...because they don't have coherent one. The things I have heard from them, most are unrealistic and some are outright idiotic. No, we aren't going to have student loan forgiveness, we aren't going to make banks stop foreclosures, currency isn't going away, and yes you are going to have to work hard to make it in this world. Sorry...those are the facts...buck up and take responsibility.

But like I said, I do support the "energy".

But that energy at some point needs to be focused and directed or it is all for nothing. No one will like this, but this movement has to be converted into a Democratic Party movement.

If not, you have one of two outcomes.

1) You have a movement that has no focus or direction...sure it will last for a little while...but the timing is horrible. The winter months will stop these protests if nothing else. So you will have something that burned bright at the beginning...but will fade as enthusiasm fades. You can't keep up enthusiasm if you have no end goal...it just isn't possible.

2) The movement creates enough momentum to create a third party...and then the Republicans win...and they go agains everything the OWS stands for. The Dems may not be 100% in line with OWS, but they at least share some ideals.


In the end, this movement has to become political...there is no other way.



posted on Oct, 7 2011 @ 01:07 PM
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reply to post by OutKast Searcher
 


Please forgive me for putting words into your mouth, but it sounds as those you're saying OWS will remain useless until they become a Democratic party movement.

Isn't OWS basically Democratic now? Will non-Democrats stay with it when it endorses Obama?

I'm still trying to understand this whole thing and your comment seems to make sense.



posted on Oct, 7 2011 @ 01:15 PM
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reply to post by charles1952
 


Yes, that is what I'm saying. Right now I wouldn't say it is Democratic...it is in the process of Dems trying to gain a foothold in it. But right now I would say it is borderline anarchism more than anything.

OWS has to become the left's "Tea Party"...it was something that was needed to create energy for the left.

If that doesn't happen...then the movement dies. I'm sure a handful of people will support it to their dying days...but it will accomplish nothing at all unless it becomes part of the political process.


If someone thinks OWS can accomplish anything outside the political process...please enlighten us as to how.
edit on 7-10-2011 by OutKast Searcher because: (no reason given)



posted on Oct, 7 2011 @ 03:23 PM
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So did the Tea Partiers and we were heartily condemned by the media, by the Establishment Republicans, and by the Progressives, and probably by you, and now you want me to get behind a bunch of socialist operatives wanting to fundamentally change our country from our Republican founding Constitution to Direct Democracy of Socialism.
That is what most of the protesters are calling for. Most of them now are mobs of unions, with a small sprinkling of other independents and Ron Paul supporters.



posted on Oct, 7 2011 @ 03:30 PM
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reply to post by OutKast Searcher
 


Outkast, see that is what is wrong with that movement to begin with. You say "the Republicans win". This is still the left/right paradigm no matter how much people here are trying to convince me it's not. The Ruckus Society, Tides(Soros), adbusters, and it looks now like the Democrat Party, was always behind this movement. It is Left Democrat from the start, and will continue to be that, pushing for Obama and Soros World Socialist Utopia with Big Labor and Big Unions behind them because they have always been a tool of communism to put a wedge between Corporations and their employees, while putting money in the big bosses pockets. Meanwhile, Richard Trumka is spouting off about world financial taxes and all the Progressives underneath him and most of these protesters are going right for it. Don't tell me you are fighting the NWO till you can fight this socialist/communist Utopia ideal too.



posted on Oct, 7 2011 @ 03:39 PM
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reply to post by xavi1000
 


George Soros is behind this protest. Which side is he on? I bet he's on his own side.



posted on Oct, 7 2011 @ 03:45 PM
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reply to post by sbctinfantry
 


Look there are communist revolutionaries behind this protest. It's just so simple and everyone is making it so hard. That is why I refuse to give it my support, and I agree with you about the silly "this is what democracy looks like" mob chant. You are right, we are a Republic with democratic elections. We already have democratic elections, so why these people want more democracy, means they want to get rid of the Republic and replace it with direct democracy. The people who organize this stuff know what it is they are promoting, and masses of unwitting tools think that the democracy they want is going to get them more jobs and better pay, or less police brutality, or whatever they've been brainwashed into believing.



posted on Oct, 7 2011 @ 03:50 PM
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If you support OWS or any platform for a getting corporate money out of the law making process, you are a communist.

At least, that is what I would say if I was a #ing idiot.



posted on Oct, 7 2011 @ 03:54 PM
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The Battle Between - OWS Critics and Supporters


There's plenty to be unhappy about. Our nation has been basically gutted of agriculture and industry. Between special interests owning our elected government and the bankers controlling the availability of funds for nearly every sector of the economy, one could find plenty of reason to be unhappy and protest.

The problem is that, in my view, these protesters are just wayyy to disconnected to those causes and validations they claim to represent. As one watches them snapping cute little photos via their Verizon or AT&T cell phones, slurping Starbucks espressos and munching Dominoes pizza, it's really very difficult to align with their motivations.

In sum, how does one protest against the very institutions that one is supporting? The irony is almost comical but the hypocrisy is a dead sure shot. These people don't have the slightest clue what it is like to go hungry or thirsty or have to depend on a pay phone for communications. They evolved from the overstuffed recliner onto Wall Street because...why? it was the trendy thing to do? Because they wanted their faces on the web?

The whole thing spirals down in flames because there is no heart behind the effort. There's no real battle, either, because it's all as perception-driven as this digital age in which we live.

Where you fall simply depends on your ability to see the little guy behind the curtains pulling the levers and pushing the buttons.



posted on Oct, 7 2011 @ 03:54 PM
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Originally posted by ThirdEyeofHorus
reply to post by sbctinfantry
 


Look there are communist revolutionaries behind this protest. It's just so simple and everyone is making it so hard. That is why I refuse to give it my support, and I agree with you about the silly "this is what democracy looks like" mob chant. You are right, we are a Republic with democratic elections. We already have democratic elections, so why these people want more democracy, means they want to get rid of the Republic and replace it with direct democracy. The people who organize this stuff know what it is they are promoting, and masses of unwitting tools think that the democracy they want is going to get them more jobs and better pay, or less police brutality, or whatever they've been brainwashed into believing.


You call an electoral process that is dominated by two corporate backed political parties "democratic"?

I think that you a traitor to the citizens of the United States by being an open supporter of corporate fascism. If everyone who disagrees with you is a communist, you are a CORPORATE FASCIST.

Hear that folks? When these shills start calling you a communist for being in favor of the people instead of the oligarchy, call them a bloody fascist and see how they like it.




edit on 7-10-2011 by illuminatislave because: (no reason given)




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