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Major influx in Chemtrails over past few days?

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posted on Oct, 6 2011 @ 03:34 PM
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reply to post by dezertdog
 



Through the 60's 70's 80's to around the mid 90's.....


Yes, but what is different over those decades? The airplanes. Specifically, the engines...and the changing engine technology, and design. All designed to A) Increase thrust for each unit mass of fuel used; B) Reduce noise to comply with ever-stricter EPA (and International equivalent) rules; and, C) To increase fuel efficiency, especially in view of the sharply rising costs that began roughly in the early 1980s.

There was a gradual influx of these newer designs, as they were added to airline fleets. But, older airplanes were still used, until it was time to retire them, or their operational costs were exceeding the cost of replacement.

The high-bypass turbo fan engine is responsible for the prevalence of more persistent contrails, year over year. Combined with the fact that today --- they now account for the vast majority of jets flying.

Your little 50-seat commuter jets, although very commonly used today (replacing the turbo-props, which are gradually being phased out) make fewer contrails....partly due to engine design, partly because of their often very short stage lengths (distances between cities) they don't always cruise as high, etc.




posted on Oct, 6 2011 @ 03:34 PM
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reply to post by ProudBird
 



The "long white lines" are contrails formed because of the airplane's passage, at altitude, when there is sufficient moisture to sustain persistence of the contrails.


Exactly. This is a "geo-engineering" forum. Because, geo-engineering has been proven time and time again. They do occasionally spray stuff in the atmosphere, but it isn't the long white lines at altitude in the sky.

There is no such thing as "chem-trails.' There are plenty of different Universities, and Government Orgs spraying a myriad of things at lower altitudes that fall to the ground. There are fuel dumps from planes experiencing problems before landing. There is research ongoing for cloud-seeding, or energy absorption from storms. All those things exist, but none of those things make long white lines up in the sky.

100% of the time, the long white lines are contrails, formed along known jetways, and formed in known meteorlogical conditions. No mysteries there, only misunderstandings.



posted on Oct, 6 2011 @ 03:55 PM
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reply to post by ProudBird
 


As it is now as it was then,the contrails of aircraft engines still disappear when the condensation returns to ambient temperature.Chemtrails however continue to spread out for hours creating an overcast sky.



posted on Oct, 6 2011 @ 03:56 PM
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Originally posted by dezertdog
reply to post by ProudBird
 


As it is now as it was then,the contrails of aircraft engines still disappear when the condensation returns to ambient temperature.Chemtrails however continue to spread out for hours creating an overcast sky.


Fact: There is no set time span in which contrails will dissipate.



posted on Oct, 6 2011 @ 04:04 PM
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reply to post by dezertdog
 


That is WAY oversimplified. In many weather conditions of low humidity and decent temperature, the dissipate, but many times the condensation freezes before it can dissipate, and then it must "sublimate" which takes a whole lot longer. Other times, the humidity level is such that the air is close to saturation, so the contrail lingers for a very, very long time. Other times, especially near a frontal boundary, the contrail contributes to already adapting meteorlogical conditions and actually grows or attracts other condensation and clouds. Since the jetways are used over and over again, sometimes the contrail drifts a little and then the next jet adds to it, and it drifts and the next on adds more, and so on.

Also, sometimes air is "super-saturated" with moisture. The moisture is suspended beyond the air's capacity, and as it strikes the surfaces of the aircraft it flash freezes. This is one of the causes of icing on aircraft wings. It is more common at lower altitudes with higher humidities.

A lot of meteorlogical and atmospheric science and physics goes into suspending a 100-ton airplane 6 miles off the ground at near mach speeds. You can rest assured these things have been explained over and over and over again somewhere.



posted on Oct, 6 2011 @ 04:12 PM
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reply to post by dezertdog
 



Chemtrails however continue to spread out for hours creating an overcast sky.


What you have termed "Chemtrails" are actually contrails. Contrails are actually a form of cirrus cloud. Same exact *stuff* in them --- ice crystals.

Cirrus clouds spread out for hours, and create an overcast sky. In fact, the presence of the initial contrails contributes to this, stimulating more and more cirrus to form.....when the conditions are ripe for the cirrus to form in the first place. Sort of a boot-strap process, but it's the same way it works in nature, it is just initiated by the airplane's hot combustion exhaust as it passes through that region of air. The passage of the airplane, its wake, also contributes.....then, the other factors will be the existing wind velocity, and whether or not any shear layers (of wind speeds, different areas) exist, and to what extent.



posted on Oct, 6 2011 @ 04:51 PM
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Originally posted by dezertdog
reply to post by ProudBird
 


As it is now as it was then,the contrails of aircraft engines still disappear when the condensation returns to ambient temperature.


That makes no sense sorry.

The ambient temperature at 30,000+ feet is often as cold as -40 deg C.

the formation of the contrails is BECAUSE the moisture generated by the engine has cooled down to that ambient temperature.

They go away if the HUMIDITY is low enough for the moisture to "disolve" into the air - regardless of the the temperature.


Chemtrails however continue to spread out for hours creating an overcast sky.


Right - so for you the telling mark of a chemtrail is that it expands to cover the sky - that's fair enough - it is a clear criteria that I can understand, even if I think it is wrong


So therefore you think that the USAAF was chemtrailing over England in WW2??


Conditions were ideal as one particular raid took off on the morning of 11 May 1944, with clear skies and enough moisture for contrails to form.

Timmis and MacKenzie found that where the aircraft circled and assembled into formation it was significantly cloudier and 0.8 °C cooler than the area upwind of the bases.


edit on 6-10-2011 by Aloysius the Gaul because: (no reason given)



posted on Oct, 6 2011 @ 04:52 PM
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reply to post by TechUnique
 


..................Those are just clouds.

Fail.



posted on Oct, 6 2011 @ 04:59 PM
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reply to post by getreadyalready
 


Well I think your response WAY over complicates the issue.

Look,here's a typical scenario:It's 8:00 a.m. on a hot,calm day here in the desert.Perfect blue sky from horizon to horizon.Jets are crisscrossing the sky in crosshatch and large circular patterns leaving behind large white "trails".They appear to be around 10k feet.Above these jets are commercial aircraft on their typical flight paths(east/west) leaving behind faint contrails which disappear after a couple plane lengths.By mid-day it's still hot and calm however the white "trails" left by the lower altitude jets have spread out now obscuring a blue sky turning it to an overcast mess.This overcast keeps falling in altitude until my view of the mountains is cast in a haze.

I can not believe this is not a concerted effort.I've seen it over and over again.



posted on Oct, 6 2011 @ 05:02 PM
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reply to post by dezertdog
 


You have a layer of moisture at some lower level that is being directly impacted by the lower jets. Possibly even a temperature inversion, which puts warmer air above colder air. It is unusual, but with the seasons changing and the mountain effect it is probably fairly common for your area.

Without even looking at your weather, there are several plausible explanations. Call your local meteorologist and ask them their opinion, and then post it back here. That would be interesting for everyone!



posted on Oct, 6 2011 @ 05:25 PM
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reply to post by dezertdog
 


As an airline pilot for over 25 years, this is where your description breaks down, for me....because it seems most likely to be a misinterpretation of what you *think* you are witnessing. (Don't worry, happens a lot to lay-people. Not an insult, just a fact):


Jets are crisscrossing the sky in crosshatch and large circular patterns leaving behind large white "trails".They appear to be around 10k feet.


It is the second sentence....the estimate *you* make of "around 10k feet". This is where the perception is failing, and there are various tools to assist in this investigation.

I presume you reside in the American desert Southwest? If so, go to this website:

www.flightaware.com...

Then, thinking of the major airport nearest you, input its name where the site has a box, on the left-side panel. Or, if you know your airport three-letter code, put a 'K' in front of that (it's the ICAO code..internationally recognized) and use that...either method will work.

For example....let's use Las Vegas ('KLAS').

Clicking the hyper-link above will give you the main page....you can expand the "Activity" view, and see this:

flightaware.com...

You can use it similarly to Google Maps, zoom in and out, etc. Left-click and slew the map, and so forth.

Also, hover our mouse cursor over the airplane icons, and get details.

Do this for wherever you are (in the USA, if using FlightAware...other countries have other websites).


Point is, you can see in (nearly) real-time....*there is a slight time delay, about 7 to 10 minutes, I've found, due to processing time from the FAA computers, to the website)*...you can see the identities of the actual airplanes.

Most will be passenger jets, or regularly scheduled cargo operators, such as UPS, FedEx, etc. SOme will be private airplanes, business jets and so forth. All that are on an IFR Flight Plan, and in the FAA computer system being monitored by ATC are in that *mix*.

Hovering over the airplane icon shows the "data block" (not exactly what ATC sees, depends on their system...it varies between facilities...but, if you need help deciphering, just ask.



posted on Oct, 6 2011 @ 05:38 PM
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Originally posted by dezertdog
reply to post by getreadyalready
 


Look,here's a typical scenario:It's 8:00 a.m. on a hot,calm day here in the desert.


A hot calm day at ground level.

What are the conditions at 30-40,000 feet??
edit on 6-10-2011 by Aloysius the Gaul because: (no reason given)



posted on Oct, 6 2011 @ 05:55 PM
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reply to post by ProudBird
 


I understand that. Are you in the air industry? If so is it normal for planes to fly in a grid pattern not in line with the airport? I live right in line with detroit metro airport and watch the planes come from that direction alot. however i don't see trails on them. could that be becuase of them being at lower alltitudes? It just seems strange sometimes thats all. But I am by no means an expert on the subject, just trying to learn more.



posted on Oct, 6 2011 @ 06:13 PM
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reply to post by ProudBird
 


Oh yeah,I've been using flightaware as a tool for going on 3 years now trying to identify these chemical spewing aircraft and I got to tell you not once have they been tracked on it.

You see these aircraft don't follow any traffic lanes. They navigate all over the place.



posted on Oct, 6 2011 @ 06:21 PM
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reply to post by usmc0311
 


Thanks for your questions.



....is it normal for planes to fly in a grid pattern not in line with the airport?


Yes, and this will depend on our actual location, as you observe....on days when contrail formation conditions are prevalent. Most of us on the ground have no way to know what conditions are like 6 to 8 miles overhead, unless researched....and few ever spend the day never taking their eyes off the skies, only looking up occasionally, and then forming (false) impressions.

About the "grids", just the nature of air travel, and the multitude of departure/destination points. My earlier posts provide the links.



I live right in line with detroit metro airport and watch the planes come from that direction alot. however i don't see trails on them.


Yes, because if and when we are discussing airplanes (and by "airplanes", I mean the larger jets, whether passenger, cargo only or military transports....they are all basically powered by the same engines), when you are seeing contrails, those are being made by airplanes that are not departing/arriving at DTW. (Detroit Metro Wayne Airport, as it's called).

This is a very common misconception that ads confusion to the "chemtrail" myth. Hopefully a YouTube vid at the bottom of this post will make more sense of it, for you.



.....just trying to learn more.


I appreciate that, and thank you for your military service (BTW). It is important to learn, in order to understand.

The YT video (please go to full screen by clicking the "youtube" direct link:



At about 1:50 the video switches to a close-up of the NorthEast region of the USA (I may have been flying that day!! LOL...if not, it's deja vu for just about any other horrible weather day, if it's summer and storms, or winter and snow, for us in the airline industry...in terms of operations).


ATS (abovetopsecret.com) is a World-Wide website, so here is another video, that is "World-Wide":




posted on Oct, 6 2011 @ 06:24 PM
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reply to post by Aloysius the Gaul
 


Beats me what the temperature may be.However as I stated the commercial traffic at that altitude had very faint and short contrails while the aircraft at 10K had "trails" that spread out over hours.

Seems counter to the temperature argument in the conditions given.



posted on Oct, 6 2011 @ 06:26 PM
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reply to post by TechUnique
 


I also live is Hastings, East Sussex, and have been monitoring the unusual trails being sprayed above us since early summer 2011 (there may well have been spraying before that, but early summer is when I first noticed them). There were 2 readers letters sent into The Hastings Observer within a few weeks of each other, regarding this issue.
There seems to be periods of days where no trails are left and then comes the onslaught of often 3-5 aircraft flying with what can only be described as 'with purpose', criss-crossing the sky sometimes from mid morning, sometimes later in the day, but either way, the end result is that within a few hours of first noticing them, more often than not, in relatively clear blue sky, the trails linger, disseminate and results in a murky cloud resembling blanket.
Often, planes can be seen leaving the usual contrail at the same time, which is helpful for the use of comparison.
If we all breathe the same air, these increasingly common worldwide occurrences (certainly in NATO countries), are hard to acknowledge as one arm of a depopulation agenda for humans. If they are part of geoengineering of the weather, then it is of extreme concern that an unproven science is being tested with no certainty of the resulting effects on humanity.
Please refer to www.globalresearch.ca...
A final note to all those 'doubters', keep looking up, if you haven't seen them yet, they will be coming to a sky near you soon........sadly.



posted on Oct, 6 2011 @ 06:31 PM
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been looking for the trails here in Oregon .. but nothing but clouds, there's a vid/thread of them spraying over the cloud cover now.. so.. yea



posted on Oct, 6 2011 @ 06:40 PM
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reply to post by Komodo
 



.........there's a vid/thread of them spraying over the cloud cover now.. so.. yea


Oh? A "vid", do you say?? Or, only a "thread"...is it an ATS thread?

DO tell, please provide the links, we wish to know the facts to assess them all.

Thanks in advance.



posted on Oct, 6 2011 @ 06:53 PM
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reply to post by dezertdog
 


Only if your assessment of altitude is correct.

as a personal aside, I recently had cause to watch a QANTAS 747 flying directly overhead on a bright clear day, and I was surprised to see as much detail as I did - teh 4 engine contrails weer clearly visible, as was the red tail, various slightly different colours around cowlings and fairings - and it was at 37,000 feet - I had to check twice because it looked a great deal closer.

So when people tell me that they thin a/c were at 10,000 feet my immediate response is "how do you know?", and if they can only say "well that's how far away it looked/I know waht I saw/I've been looking at a/c all my life" etc., then I am afraid I discount their assessment as evidence of actual height.

Oh and of course humidity also plays a fairly important part in the scheme of things too......



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