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How Much Control Does The President Have?

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posted on Aug, 27 2004 @ 11:28 PM
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I'm would like to keep this from political mudslinging. I'm just curious, how much control does the President have? Sure, there are executive orders, but most laws and actions require approval of Congress.

Interested in your thoughts.




posted on Aug, 28 2004 @ 12:00 AM
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When the President's party controls all branches of government (like now) then he has unlimited power. (Moreso with a couple more Supreme Court appointments.)

Those saying Kerry is just as big a threat as Bush, have zero basis for such claims.

If nothing else President Kerry having veto power against more Constitutional pandering insanity would be a welcome change.

When in doubt, vote for deadlock.



posted on Aug, 28 2004 @ 12:12 AM
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Originally posted by RANT
When in doubt, vote for deadlock.


Through most of my life, this certainly has been the case and it has generally been a good model. I don't think it will happen this year.



posted on Aug, 28 2004 @ 12:13 AM
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I wouldn't say he has unlimited power. Please provide a couple of examples to back this position.

If I'm wrong, then I'm wrong. Like I said, this wasn't politically motivated, I'm just interested.

[edit on 28-8-2004 by dcgolf]



posted on Aug, 28 2004 @ 12:24 AM
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Originally posted by dcgolf
I wouldn't say he has unlimited power.


Because the Founding Fathers feared power acrueing to a single party or individual, they set up a tripartite government: the Executive, the Legislative and the Judicial Branches. To prevent a military takeover, they put civilians in charge of the military with the President as Commander-in-Chief and civilian Secretaries of Defense (formerly the Secretary of War) and the various branches.

To avoid absolute power over the military, the Congress alone was given the power to declare war. However, the President has the power to commit combat troops to limited engagements. Only the Congress can allocate funds for anything.

So, consider when you blame Bush for war that the Congress approved the war on terror and the wars in Afghanistan and Iraq and also the funding.

To further disperse power, the President was given veto power over Congressional legislation and the Congress was given power to override Presidential vetoes with a two-thirds majority vote.

It's all very ingenious. Please tell me that you are not an American who has a high school education.



[edit on 04/8/28 by GradyPhilpott]



posted on Aug, 28 2004 @ 12:24 AM
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More than any other president in history unfortunately
he himself appears to be controlled by others their agenda has become a factor in the undoing of USA as a whole, as basic tenets of constitutional law are being ammended in the guise of national security and the sheeple are uninformed and unaware of nature of the abridgements.



posted on Aug, 28 2004 @ 01:18 AM
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This is an excellent question. When it comes right down to brass tacks, the president is only as powerful as the wits of all the people he surrounds himself with to advise him. His "cabinet."

Probably the greatest power President Bush and his cabinet members have is the power of diplomatic influence worldwide. Condoleeza Rice can go to Taiwan and do nothing else but have tea with President Chen Shui-bian and the next day the headlines say the U.S. is "provoking" China.

That sort of discreet power is more than anything the Congress could ever come up with in a day's work. I would be willing to bet that Karen Hughes has just as much power as Rice these days. She can clear a roomful of journalists with a stony glare. Of course, the First Lady has more power than all of them combined, including the cabinet.

But as for what any president can do on his/her own without having to kiss anybody's ptooey or make yet another speech or drug some fillibusterers, s/he can modify or create or delete federal regulations all the day long, every day, as much as s/he wants. And they do. And they really like it. Clinton did it a lot. So did Bush Sr. But Bush Jr. has done it the most of anybody. Read about his obsession with deleting regulations here:

Bush administration takes ax to many federal regulations
www.kentucky.com...

Oh yeah, and don't forget that the president holds keys to that infamous locked black briefcase with the state secrets. Or is that an urban legend?



posted on Aug, 28 2004 @ 01:38 AM
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Originally posted by GradyPhilpott

Originally posted by dcgolf
I wouldn't say he has unlimited power.


Because the Founding Fathers feared power acrueing to a single party or individual, they set up a tripartite government: the Executive, the Legislative and the Judicial Branches. To prevent a military takeover, they put civilians in charge of the military with the President as Commander-in-Chief and civilian Secretaries of Defense (formerly the Secretary of War) and the various branches.

To avoid absolute power over the military, the Congress alone was given the power to declare war. However, the President has the power to commit combat troops to limited engagements. Only the Congress can allocate funds for anything.

So, consider when you blame Bush for war that the Congress approved the war on terror and the wars in Afghanistan and Iraq and also the funding.

To further disperse power, the President was given veto power over Congressional legislation and the Congress was given power to override Presidential vetoes with a two-thirds majority vote.

It's all very ingenious. Please tell me that you are not an American who has a high school education.



[edit on 04/8/28 by GradyPhilpott]


I am an American with a high school education. Your post proves he doesn't have unlimited power. The government was set up to limit the power of a single branch, as your statement has shown. I guess I'm not sure why you are attacking my statement.



posted on Aug, 28 2004 @ 01:40 AM
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In addition, I meant this as a general question, not how much control does President Bush have.



posted on Aug, 28 2004 @ 06:08 AM
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dcgolf

I'm not attacking your statement. It's just that everything I said in my post is high school civics. The President wields nearly unbelievable power, but with the Constitutional checks and balances, his power is controlled. Let us also consider that the President is up for re-election is about 60 days.

Tyranny is an ever present danger in the world in which we live, but we really should understand and respect the power of our Constitution. Perhaps, then, we would be less fearful of our Government. It should also make up more willing to participate in the political process.


[edit on 04/8/28 by GradyPhilpott]



posted on Aug, 28 2004 @ 09:13 AM
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Then if the president now is controling the branches in the goverment how come he has to use executive power?

Why is the reason for this, perhaps he does not trust his own people to back him up?



posted on Aug, 28 2004 @ 10:30 AM
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Originally posted by marg6043
Then if the president now is controling the branches in the goverment how come he has to use executive power?


The President is the Executive Branch of the Government. That is the power he wields. Please, folks, a high school civics book will answer all these questions. Oh, yeah, there's always the WWW.

[edit on 04/8/28 by GradyPhilpott]



posted on Aug, 28 2004 @ 10:48 AM
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GradyPhilpott,

Not sarcarsm is necesary, it was just a question and by the way I did took adm of goverment I guess is being to long ago and I can not remember.

And I ask because you seem to know it all.



posted on Aug, 28 2004 @ 11:37 AM
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Originally posted by marg6043
GradyPhilpott,

And I ask because you seem to know it all.



I hardly know it all, but as I was constructing the previous response, I realized that I was drawing on knowledge gained at the junior high school and the high school levels. The function of our government is a thing of beauty in itself. It is even moreso when you consider the way our Founding Fathers crafted it out of "thin air," based on their experience and education. When you think about it these men were virtually clairvoyant in devising a system so resistive to overt corruption.

Not only should we know how it works, we should cherish it and be willing to give our lives in its defense.



posted on Aug, 28 2004 @ 12:13 PM
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GradyPhilpott,

I went to school outside of US and I only took american government on my last year of high school and at the time I really did not care much due ot the fact that I though I was going to stay in my dear Island for the rest of my life. I do know how the govermnet works but It does get confusing sometimes.

I hold the Founding Fathers in hight regards I think these were not your regualr type of men.



posted on Aug, 28 2004 @ 12:16 PM
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Originally posted by GradyPhilpott

Originally posted by marg6043
GradyPhilpott,

And I ask because you seem to know it all.



I hardly know it all, but as I was constructing the previous response, I realized that I was drawing on knowledge gained at the junior high school and the high school levels. The function of our government is a thing of beauty in itself. It is even moreso when you consider the way our Founding Fathers crafted it out of "thin air," based on their experience and education. When you think about it these men were virtually clairvoyant in devising a system so resistive to overt corruption.

Not only should we know how it works, we should cherish it and be willing to give our lives in its defense.


I agree with you. On paper, the government has great checks and balances in place. I didn't ask this question because I wanted to know how the government works. You're right, if you are a citizen of the US you should know this (BTW I was a history / poly sci double major in college). I asked the question to perhaps show people that the President (Bush, Clinton, Bush etc.) is not soley responsible for the state of the Union.



posted on Aug, 28 2004 @ 12:23 PM
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Originally posted by GradyPhilpott
When you think about it these men were virtually clairvoyant in devising a system so resistive to overt corruption.


Yeah...that has worked real well


Only kidding there! The Founding Fathers did not just make up everything though. In fact, a lot of what they borrowed came from the works of such people as John Locke, Thomas Hobbs, etc. The Founders did an excellent job with checks and balances, but did not just "pull it out of the air", so to say!



posted on Aug, 28 2004 @ 12:32 PM
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Do you mean the office of the Presidency or do you mean Mr. Bush?

In the case of the former, if the President doesn't try to "kick over the traces" then the answer is that the office has about the same powers as any other branch of the govenment. In the case of Mr. Bush (described as "the Mayberry Machiavelli" and "a loose cannon"), the answer is "far too miuch."

It's amazing how he actually got his war in Afghanistan and his war in Iraq by sneaking around the Congress. We never actually declared war, you know, and are technically not in a state of war (and never were) with either country. This didn't prevent Mr. Bush from sending in all the weaponry he could muster.



posted on Aug, 28 2004 @ 01:35 PM
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Originally posted by JazzermanThe Founders did an excellent job with checks and balances, but did not just "pull it out of the air", so to say!


You will note that I said they relied on their experience and education. And they constructed a government that was unprecedented in world history. They didn't dream it all up, but they synthesized it all in ways that had never been done. You can't minimize that.

[edit on 04/8/28 by GradyPhilpott]



posted on Oct, 15 2004 @ 12:11 AM
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I'd like to update this thread.

First off, I was speaking in general terms. While the office of President is regarded as the symbolic head of government, does it really have so much power that it can shape US policy? Doesn't Congress have a say?

With that in mind, how different will life be in two years if Kerry is elected? How about Bush? I realize that a lot will be determined by who controls the House and Senate, but we place so much emphasis on the President.

Please don't just say, "things will be better, trust me." Try and use logic and facts to justify your position.



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