Steve Jobs Dies: Apple Chief Created Personal Computer, iPad, iPod

Originally posted by AngryAlien

If Mr. Wozniak can forgive him, why can't you?

That is something I don't get. It is almost as if, people in this thread are taking his business practices, personally, as if they were directly involved or something.

I mean, I can understand not liking his business practices, but damn...Some people are in here laughing and thanking god that he is dead as if he was some kind of monster or something.

The reality is he was a business man and you will be hard pressed to find a CEO who has not walked over a few people, who have not done a few unethical things to get ahead... it happens.. It is business and business is ugly.

fact is, like him or not, he clearly made a major impact on the world.... I leave it up to the posters, whether that impact was good or bad... But, he made a huge impact.

Personally, I think it was a positive impact, in the long run.Yep, he has skeletons in his closet...Who doesn't? But at the end of the day he had a huge impact on the world.

reply to post by gimme_some_truth


Exactly. Jobs left a tremendous impact on our society and in my opinion, a positive one. I think people are just getting carried away with the whole "Who cares?! He's just a man!" nonsense. Yeah, he is just a human being, like you and I. A man who redefined technology, created jobs, inspired so many young Americans and young kids around the world that it's quite okay to be geeky.

The guy really is a great inspiration.

reply to post by gimme_some_truth


As much as Job's most likely assisting the masters of puppets with their sinister agenda of manipulating technology and the masses of sheople in order to moderate and control them all, he was still a pioneer of the technological era. With that being said, I am not yet sure if he intentionally supported the results of some of his work.

Just look at Atari, he was a very big part of their early success in regards to chip technology. Man how I miss those simple days as a young boy while playing Adventure on the Atari 2600 and slaying Digital Dragons who were trying to eat me. The original Raiders of the Ark game, Astroids, Missle Command, Pitfall, Berzerk, Tempest, Dig Dug, Mousetrap and the best of them all, The INCOMPARABLE DEFENDER!!!

Yuh know my friends, It gives me chills just thinking about those days as a kid in the early 80's. Sometimes I really wish I could go back, and not just for pre-historic video games. ~SheopleNation

I'm sure Jobs family is just torn

just torn how they will spend their money (should i say Steves?)...

Hey maybe they will be nice and create a
few jobs for us serfs..
(a man can dream right)

Probably would be for just cheap labor overseas company anyways.

How about they bring that plant TO AMERICA!!!
Let us make your ipad, iphones, icrap and pay people a REAL WAGE..
Invest in US for a change.
Screw apple and steve jobs rip's *brotha*.

reply to post by popsmayhem


Well, for what it is worth, I am sure Apple will find a way to manage with out him.

Only this time they can't hire him back.

I wouldn't mind being the new apple front man. I could go introduce the latest Apple product... and I would only ask half of what Steve Jobs was earning.

Originally posted by gimme_some_truth
reply to post by popsmayhem

 

Well, for what it is worth, I am sure Apple will find a way to manage with out him.

Only this time they can't hire him back.

I wouldn't mind being the new apple front man. I could go introduce the latest Apple product... and I would only ask half of what Steve Jobs was earning.

edit on 7-10-2011 by gimme_some_truth because: (no reason given)

I think they could take the jobs out of china almost as fast as they put them there
and bring them here..

Will they? Of course not, they want to maximize profits.. Even though they could help
the Country that gave them the right to make the billions they will not. Why? Scumbags...
Why does that sound so impossible? Because that is how they want it.

reply to post by SkepticOverlord


SO thanks for posting that video. I ended up watching the entire hour long interview. It was interesting to see where the two companies began and to see where they plan to go.

It was also interesting to find out Microsoft wrote a big portion of the code for the Macintosh computer. To know that until about 1995 Macintosh was Microsoft's biggest client was a little wierd. It just goes to show that even in the computer industry there is a lot less competition than we like to believe.

The interview also showed a fundamental difference in the two men. Bill Gates talked about how he liked the idea of creating the software and letting others develop the hardware. It creates an eco-system of growth where each person or client can maximize the hardware and software for their specific aplication. That applied not only in the PC market but also in the phone and robotics markets. Steve Jobs basically said it was still to be determined if that was the best way to do things. He believed that Apple's software should be put in to apple's hardware to be used as they see fit.

I'm not bashing on Steve or promoting Bill. I'm just saying that it was interesting to see the different personalities come through. I never thought I could geek out for an hour on something like that.

Originally posted by popsmayhem

Originally posted by gimme_some_truth
reply to post by popsmayhem

 

Well, for what it is worth, I am sure Apple will find a way to manage with out him.

Only this time they can't hire him back.

I wouldn't mind being the new apple front man. I could go introduce the latest Apple product... and I would only ask half of what Steve Jobs was earning.

edit on 7-10-2011 by gimme_some_truth because: (no reason given)

I think they could take the jobs out of china almost as fast as they put them there
and bring them here..

Will they? Of course not, they want to maximize profits.. Even though they could help
the Country that gave them the right to make the billions they will not. Why? Scumbags...
Why does that sound so impossible? Because that is how they want it.

edit on 7-10-2011 by popsmayhem because: (no reason given)

A business wants to maximize profits, oh the humanity! That's still not Jobs fault, it's Apples fault and the fault and all their share holders. It's probably people like you that make them want to operate overseas. You are arrogant, self-centered, spiteful, and just talk crap, demanding a high wage. Why don't YOU try to start a US based company that hires even a fraction of 20,000+ Americans that Apple employs? Oh, because you can't...

Is it really that bad that a company makes smart production decisions? They are a world-wide business, why not hire people throughout the world? Shouldn't the blame be on the government for creating a situation where businesses NEED to go out of country to turn a profit?

What the hell are you talking about?
I'm sure APPLE can pay a measly $7.00 an hour
to PEOPLE IN AMERICA to make their product!!!
I'm not wanting them to pay people 10-15-20 dollars an hour
Just bring the jobs here and pay people minimum wage. People will
take that jobs as it is very secure and 50 hours a week at 7 dollars an hour
would be great for people in America!!!
Why they should NOT hire the Chinese
or other countries? BECAUSE THE CHINESE GOVERNMENT RAPES THEIR WORKERS
WAY WORSE THEN THE US... As well as the other VERY cheap labor.
They want to pay people 50 cents a day. Apple can afford American Minimum Wage.
They should invest here because THIS IS WHERE THEY got the right and opportunity
to do what they did!!
Again screw apple and steve jobs

Again, I ask:

How many American employees do you employ? Do you employ, even a fraction of the 20,000+ Americans that Apple does? Do you own a business?

Originally posted by popsmayhem

I think they could take the jobs out of china almost as fast as they put them there
and bring them here..

Will they? Of course not, they want to maximize profits.. Even though they could help
the Country that gave them the right to make the billions they will not. Why? Scumbags...
Why does that sound so impossible? Because that is how they want it.

edit on 7-10-2011 by popsmayhem because: (no reason given)

Well, I do agree with you. This is the reason why companies outsource. it saves them money. Cheaper labor, cheaper manufacturing. These two things do mean a bigger profit.

But I don't know if I would call them a scumbag company, but only because so many other American companies have done the same thing... I think it would be more fair to call Every American Company who have taken jobs away from America, at a time when we really need them, a sort of...Collective scumbag...

Well, it is a scumbag move anyway, I admit. What it says to me when a company outsources ( outsource and get greedy and want a bigger profit, are interchangeable here) is that they don't care about anything but money.

reply to post by AngryAlien



Okay first, please calm down. Popsmayhem has every right to his opinion as do you. His opinion does not make him any of the names you called him. Please be respectful. At the very least. Civil. Name calling is uncalled for.

Yes, they are a world wide business, and they do hire people over seas. But can you not understand popsmayhem's gripe? I can.

Our economy is in shambles. Jobs aren't exactly easy to find. Companies outsourcing jobs, for the sake of profit is not exactly helping. You are right. They have every right to do this, but I think it shows greed on the part of the company.

What it says to me when a company outsource is that they don't care about anything but money.Screw everything but money, is what I see. It's all about profit and I think that stinks.

Originally posted by AngryAlien

Again, I ask:

How many American employees do you employ? Do you employ, even a fraction of the 20,000+ Americans that Apple does? Do you own a business?

That is an irrelevant question. First, you don't know who this person is. For all you know, you are talking to the owner of some Fortune 500 company.

Second, chances are, even if he does own a company they are not nearly as big as apple... But if Pops is in the US and owns a small business... I bet percentage wise, he hires more Americans than Apple does. I would bet.... 100% versus apples.... well..Not sure what there percentage is, but it would be less than 100, because they do outsource.

Oh and if you argue that he might hire illegal immigrants... Call me crazy but I doubt a person arguing in support of bringing the jobs to the US so American's can have them, would hire illegals.

So your point is moot.

Originally posted by gimme_some_truth
Well, I do agree with you. This is the reason why companies outsource. it saves them money. Cheaper labor, cheaper manufacturing. These two things do mean a bigger profit.

But I don't know if I would call them a scumbag company, but only because so many other American companies have done the same thing... I think it would be more fair to call Every American Company who have taken jobs away from America, at a time when we really need them, a sort of...Collective scumbag...

Well, it is a scumbag move anyway, I admit. What it says to me when a company outsources ( outsource and get greedy and want a bigger profit, are interchangeable here) is that they don't care about anything but money.

That is exactly what I mean..

I would not say I am anti-union but i'm anti-BIG HUGE UNIONS that are only looking
to bring in more money/dues off the working man to line their own damn pocket.
Or demanding APPLE to pay people 20 dollars an hour or something outrages.
Apple could bring the manufacturing jobs back to America to a right-to-work state, unions would be a moot point.
If you really believe APPLE could not pay people in America minimum wage and STILL turn huge profits, you are kidding yourself.. Any big company who does this I agree are scumbags.

Originally posted by gimme_some_truth

Originally posted by AngryAlien

Again, I ask:

How many American employees do you employ? Do you employ, even a fraction of the 20,000+ Americans that Apple does? Do you own a business?

That is an irrelevant question. First, you don't know who this person is. For all you know, you are talking to the owner of some Fortune 500 company.

Second, chances are, even if he does own a company they are not nearly as big as apple... But if Pops is in the US and owns a small business... I bet percentage wise, he hires more Americans than Apple does.

I would bet.... 100% versus apples.... well..Not sure what there percentage is, but it would be less than 100, because they do outsource.

Oh and if you argue that he might hire illegal immigrants... Call me crazy but I doubt a person arguing in support of bringing the jobs to the US so American's can have them, would hire illegals.

So your point is moot.

edit on 7-10-2011 by gimme_some_truth because: (no reason given)

The question is relevant, and I am positive he is not a Fortune 500 company owner. I know that because he knows nothing about running a business. There is a reason they outsource, and it's not just to make huge profits for themselves. They have tons of stock holders who are relying on them to deliver, based on cost, production, sales, and performance. To keep those in check, many companies choose to outsource. This, does several things.

1. Lowers cost to the consumer. That same iPad would cost more if produced in the US. Apple knows that people will only pay so much for their technology. They can sell more units at a lower price, and give more consumers what they want at a fair price. Is that the companies fault? Or the fault of the consumer for demanding lower prices?

2. It raises profit forecasts, thus raising shareholder stock.

3. It can provide the company with more capital to expand. This expansion may include US based jobs.

4. Better turn-around time. Outsourcing is usually contract driven and people are given a deadline. Often there are monetary penalties involved if the contract is breached or the dealine is missed. The company can then choose to not work with the outsourced company again, and they don't have to fire their American factory workers.

There are more reasons too.

Additionally, outsourcing for small business is becoming more popular, as people are realizing the savings involved.

smallbiztrends.com...

reply to post by AngryAlien


Nope. Not relevant. If he owns a business, I would bet money that percentage wise he has more American employees than apple.

Also it does not matter what other businesses are doing. You were asking about Pop's business and how many employees he has in America. Percentage wise, I would bet money, that Pop's comes out on top.

Let's ask him.

hey, Pops, does your business have a higher percentage rate of American employees?

Short answer if all of your Employees are American citizens, than yes you do.

Angry, your point is moot and your question really has nothing to do with anything in regards to Steve Jobs dying anyway....


What I am getting at is that I disagree with you. I would like to see Apple bring jobs back to America. All of them. It would be a good suggestion that they care about people and not money.... But they are a business and all they care about is profit so they outsource and again, I think that stinks. Greedy as can be.

Hey, put the owner of these companies on minimum wage and watch how fast they quit outsourcing.

Originally posted by AngryAlien


1. Lowers cost to the consumer. That same iPad would cost more if produced in the US. Apple knows that people will only pay so much for their technology. They can sell more units at a lower price, and give more consumers what they want at a fair price. Is that the companies fault? Or the fault of the consumer for demanding lower prices?

2. It raises profit forecasts, thus raising shareholder stock.

3. It can provide the company with more capital to expand. This expansion may include US based jobs.

4. Better turn-around time. Outsourcing is usually contract driven and people are given a deadline. Often there are monetary penalties involved if the contract is breached or the dealine is missed. The company can then choose to not work with the outsourced company again, and they don't have to fire their American factory workers.

There are more reasons too.

We know why companies outsource... Bottom line is that it comes down to money. Neither of us have disputed that. We have said that ourselves.

We just think it stinks... I wonder how many people would jump at a chance to have that job here, and I wonder how many would be happy to get paid minimum wage for it, or even less?

They can make profit here in the US as well... So move on to your next point.... Or just move on.

Originally posted by gimme_some_truth
reply to post by AngryAlien

 

Nope. Not relevant. If he owns a business, I would bet money that percentage wise he has more American employees than apple.

Also it does not matter what other businesses are doing. You were asking about Pop's business and how many employees he has in America. Percentage wise, I would bet money, that Pop's comes out on top.

Let's ask him.

hey, Pops, does your business have a higher percentage rate of American employees?

Short answer if all of your Employees are American citizens, than yes you do.

Angry, your point is moot and your question really has nothing to do with anything in regards to Steve Jobs dying anyway....


What I am getting at is that I disagree with you. I would like to see Apple bring jobs back to America. All of them. It would be a good suggestion that they care about people and not money.... But they are a business and all they care about is profit so they outsource and again, I think that stinks. Greedy as can be.

Hey, put the owner of these companies on minimum wage and watch how fast they quit outsourcing.

edit on 7-10-2011 by gimme_some_truth because: (no reason given)

I manage a restaurant, work right with the owner, who has me hire the entire staff,
they are ALL legal U.S residents. No it is not the size of APPLE, no we have no need to outsource,
and I'm not saying I know everything about it..

What I AM saying, is APPLE could EASILY hire workers in the USA to make their products for minimum
wage and STILL turn a HUGE profit.. The reason for running a business it to turn a profit, not rape, pillage,
and SCREW every one over, especially the country who gave you the RIGHT and the ATMOSPHERE to make all the money you have.

Originally posted by popsmayhem


I manage a restaurant, work right with the owner, who has me hire the entire staff,
they are ALL legal U.S residents. No it is not the size of APPLE, no we have no need to outsource,
and I'm not saying I know everything about it..

What I AM saying, is APPLE could EASILY hire workers in the USA to make their products for minimum
wage and STILL turn a HUGE profit.. The reason for running a business it to turn a profit, not rape, pillage,
and SCREW over the very country who gave you the RIGHT to make all the money you have.

Well, there you go Angry. Your question has been answered and you were wrong. Percentage wise, Pop's has a much higher amount of American Citizens as employees. Pop's 100% versus Apples... Oh I will be generous and say.... 80%

I agree, I know of so many people desperate for jobs who would be more than happy to work for Apple at minimum wage. About 50 years away from my house is a bridge. Two homeless people live under it. I have talked to one of them before. Nice guy. Just down on his luck. He is actively looking for work, but it is hard to get work when you have no home address or phone number to put on job applications.

My point being, he would jump at a chance to work for them and I bet he would even take less than minimum wage. Hey anything is better than nothing.

Companies can and do make huge profits here in the US so there is no legit reason to continue outsourcing. Especially with so many here, willing to work for minimum wage.

Now that your questions have been answered and your point is officially beyond moot. It is time to move on to your next point, or just move on. Because frankly, the thread is getting too far off topic now.

Originally posted by gimme_some_truth

We know why companies outsource... Bottom line is that it comes down to money. Neither of us have disputed that. We have said that ourselves.

We just think it stinks... I wonder how many people would jump at a chance to have that job here, and I wonder how many would be happy to get paid minimum wage for it, or even less?

They can make profit here in the US as well... So move on to your next point.... Or just move on.

edit on 7-10-2011 by gimme_some_truth because: (no reason given)

Yes it does come down to money. That's the focus of any business, maximize profits. There are plenty of low paying jobs in the US, that Americans are not willing to take. The reason? The wage is too low, or the labour is too hard. I've heard people say, "I make more on unemployment, so why get a job?"

Like we've agreed, businesses just want to make money, that is their purpose. The percentage of US employess does not matter, since we're talking about the number of jobs created by the company. Even if Apple inly has 10% of it's employees in the US, it still provides more Americans with jobs.

You don't understand international business either. If a company can produce a higher quality product for the half the cost, why not? Why try to staff and build an entire factory, when you can hire a company that already has the resources in place? It saves time, money, and reduces costs to consumers. If I have an idea for a product, it makes more sense for me to outsource the job to someone with the resources in place to produce the product. This saves me the time of interviewing, hiring, training, and supervising people.

I like the point where you tell me to move on. I thought you were all about people voicing and being entitled to their opinions. This thread got hijacked, long before I showed up, so don't try to pull the off topic card. My only intent was to prove that the jabs against Steve Jobs are uncalled for, since it's not his sole decision to make.

The consumers are the cause and outsourcing is the effect. There are plenty of jobs out there, just do a search. Pick up a newspaper with a classifieds section, and look at the "Jobs" section. Is it empty? Search Craigslist, there were 400+ jobs posted just today.

seattle.craigslist.org...

california.jobing.com...

Why not impose new taxes on businesses that send work overseas? Why not give a business an incentive to hire domestic employees? Don't hate on a company for trying to run it in their (and their share holders) best intrests.