"Inca Airplane" and Flying Lawnmowers

Originally posted by Byrd

Originally posted by Hanslune
Yeah demons is my interpretation of a thing with wings, claws and eyes that look like they should belong to a bad vampire movie character

edit on 5/10/11 by Hanslune because: (no reason given)

Ah.

Those, young Grasshopper, are birds. I own two replicas (cast from originals) and when you have your hands on them and turn them over in your fingers and see the feathers and beak and talons (raptor like... two front, two rear) you'll see they're birds.

(these are copies of items in the museum and were bought at the museum store... so I saw, looked closely, and bought the copy after seeing the original.)

edit on 5-10-2011 by Byrd because: (no reason given)

....ahh, I stand corrected - I will go outside for penance and lie in a pit of bronze age pottery shards until Venus rises

Originally posted by Hanslune
Hi guys

These little gold tokens are from the Quimbaya culture (Columbia) not Moche or Inca. They were probably made between the 700 AD to 1000 AD and perhaps up to the arrival of the Spanish.

Most appear to be representations of demons, flying fish and insects

Thank you.

I was frustrated with the estimated fifteen hundred year old dating and "Inca." One source stated it was a Moche artifact and the dates fit. Right era, but I was 750 miles off.

Originally posted by Frira

Originally posted by Hanslune
Hi guys

These little gold tokens are from the Quimbaya culture (Columbia) not Moche or Inca. They were probably made between the 700 AD to 1000 AD and perhaps up to the arrival of the Spanish.

Most appear to be representations of demons, flying fish and insects

Thank you.

I was frustrated with the estimated fifteen hundred year old dating and "Inca." One source stated it was a Moche artifact and the dates fit. Right era, but I was 750 miles off.

My pleasure, there is fringe tendency to try and lump or associate 'mysterious' things with one another. Oh and the area in Columbia is along the coast - which explains the large number of sea creatures - it also explains why the culture crashed. The Spanish were there early, around Cartagena I believe and disease devastated the local native Americans.

There MAY have been trade items amongst the Inca and their predecessors from this culture - I'll ask the Andeanist at the Hall of Ma'at about that

For the record and let the record reflect, my whole approach is to include things that haven't been included in the mainstream textbook understanding
I knew byrd would be here shortly, but I must open one mind at a time.

Hans: Actually there seems to have been lots of it around however it should be pointed out that moving big heavy stones didn’t happen every day – it did use up a lot of resources. However how did you determine your declaration above?

Star: This is a common understanding. The rope, pulley, and log transporting system is one of the oldest ways in trying to explain the pyramids. I can think of at least of about 3 systems that have NEVER been discussed.
**The Kemetic (egyptian) people did not even perceive reality as we do. For example we see the sky as up as they saw it as down or away so just with this key alone we can see why it would be possible and logical to start at the top of the pyramid. I have yet to hear this approach, because we are still approaching this from the perspective of someone in 2011 not as an ancient Kemite. They used the sand to set the blocks in place, and this why most of the pyramids have vents.

Hans: yes it does – who says its linear – time moves in one direction

Star: In my humble opinion I believe this is due to the limited perception of the human experience. We have a very hard time believing or understanding the concept of infinity. For example when we study stars we use the term "birth" and "die" when the same energy is present before and after these supposed phases. A star is very much alive after its supposed death and if one was to take in account the name of my favorite band, Nothing Ever Really Dies. The very same energy is present and is expressed in an infinite amount of ways, we view as the universe. So in essence, time has no beginning and end outside of the human experience. As it is said "time is an illusion. It is a process of eternal now."

Hans: Yes I have noticed that. Iif you go for literal interpretation then those bulbs are bigger than human beings. The hieroglyph around that image explain what the image represents

Star: I have seen big bulbs especially when constructing big buildings. You did not confirm nor deny the existence of the battery that was tested. I have been studying the glyphs for a while so I know there is a literal message in front of a symbolic message and another message*.
youtu.be..." target="_blank" class="postlink">The light bulb
This is one I found on the fly, but I have witnessed many other people experiment with the batteries and the bulbs. There wasn't any soot found because they did not use any torches or lamps. We assume they did so they must have right?

Hans: Not quite sure what your point is could you rephrase please?

Star: You were trying to tell me it was easy to move these obelisk. The obelisk in D.C. and the others were cut into pieces and then moved. Sure its easy that way. The ancient Kemites cut some of these megaliths out of one single stone with precision that is difficult to achieve today.

Hans: ??? other than it being a tomb built in a cemetary and serving as a center for Pharoah-god worship....

Star: There is still no evidence of this to this day, just speculation. But, they were purposely built on aquifers, they purposely used the stone that resonates vibrations for the longest amount of time and they purposely did many other things. The pyramids were much more than a burial, or a cemetary. They were like a factory that produced the opposite of pollution if one can fathom that. People claim Imhotep made a mistake when making the bent pyramid, but with a higher understanding one will see it was done on purpose and it has significance in relation to the human body.
I mentioned Tesla and you guys ignore that fact. Go research what he discovered when he went to the Giza plateau.

Hans: Ah they don’t - I presume you thinking that HSS evolved from Chimpanzees, a common Creationist strawman? They didn’t we and they evolved from a common ancestor many millions of years ago

Star: Let's not jump the gun here. Chimps have very little to do with our long history of adaptation. More evidence shows we share a common ancestry with dolphins rather than apes. Apes do not have an innate diving mechanism within their circulatory and respiratory systems.

reply to post by Byrd

I'm pretty good at reading the Bible and I do NOT remember Jesus' father (Joseph) being a god and his mother Mary being the wife and a goddess.

Star: Many people are good at reading the bible, but they fail to see its underlying meaning and somehow they think this young religion didn't use any previous sources as inspiration.
Joseph is NOT "Jesus" as you put it,His father. It is clear she was impregnated by the holy spirit which why they go on to show you the reaction of the people in disbelief. They said what your going to say after you read this, "its impossible" right?!!
You can point out a hand full of things that aren't similar all based on someone else's interpretation. The story of "Jesus" as you put it, is not understood fully. When I say fully, just as I recognized in my post with hans about the literal, symbolic and the other message within the hieroglyphs, the same is for the bible. So you are reading into the bible and ancient Kemite folklore way to hard. I guess you believe Isis really transformed into a bird to right. You will never take from it what they took from it.
For example people read the bible and they can never answer this question( which I know the answer to), the creator created 2 light in the heavens and people like you that have this literal relationship with the bible conclude he is talking about the moon when we know just as the creator did, the moon is non-luminous.

Actually, the word is 'Hekeneut' (you can check the dictionaries for this one... usually given as Hknwt)

Star: we are not referring to the same thing. I'm talking about the concept which isn't even physical, it is a spiritual one. This idea is far older was transmitted across lands before Christianity was invented.

1) Cranes aren't nuclear powered 2) We can move the Space Shuttle and lift it onto its crawler. The Space Shuttle weighs 4,400,000 pounds. The largest stone block in Giza weighs 1,765,200 pounds

Star: I am aware, maybe you took something form it that I didn't convey. Our strongest way of moving things, wouldn't even allow us to fit the blocks in the precise manner in which they were placed. Okay, that scenario is child's play. Here's one for you. In what manner did they cut the blocks so fine that it resembles modern day lasers?? People always tend to lean towards this elementary understanding of how this thing was erected but we aren't dealing with an elementary subject.

This statement is often made on websites where the writer has NO experience with engines, cranes or construction.

Star: this statement is also made by people who are locked into believing this could have only been done one way. No engines, cranes, or other types of modern equipment were used during the construction of the pyramids. The same with Coral Castle, the same with many other sites. When are going to always fail when we try to bring our understanding into their world. It is clear they had a very different understanding of the universe. While the some the other parts of the world were becoming expert archers the Kemites were become expert Alchemist. That hunter gatherer tone only goes so far, and it stems from a limited understanding of our story.

Sharks, however, do. And if you look at ALL of the ones they're identifying as "aircraft" you can see that many of them have sharklike mouths and teeth. Some have "rays" (fins) that are pretty detailed. Several have gill representations. They didn't make exact copies -- each piece is individualistic. But if you look at ALL of them (not just 4 or 8) then it's clear they are representations of animals.

Star: this is pretty common with you guys. If I have or anyone else never posted that insects do NOT have wings on there bottom you guys would be so adamant that it is a recreation of an insect. Now thats out of the way, I have never seen a shark with its head separated from its body nor I have I seen one when replicated in art have over-pronounced fins. Another thing I will like to mention, they applied a nice amount of detail to this artifact, yet they did not include the only way a marine animal of this kind, is able to breathe, gills.
many blessings.

Originally posted by AKINOFTHEFIRSSTARS
reply to post by steveknows

 

Im not here to argue.....But allow me to inform you, there weren't enough trees, hemp, or man power to erect those monuments that way. Sorry. I know its hard to believe that evolution and history of mankind is NOT linear, but hey the evidence stands. You guys swear they used torches and lamps when there is no evidence of soot of any kind. People have a hard time accepting facts. There are glyph's of light bulbs. The scoffers will say yeah right, but they have even been tested. So if they had electricity, which is said to be impossible because you guys think they are primitive, who knows what they had that we haven't discovered.

In order to receive new things one must create space by letting go of the old obsolete ones.

Hanslune, I knew you'd be here.

Really break down the pyramids. The 'granite' that is placed precisely within the kings chamber, They are aligned with the cardinal points before the invention of the compass, I could go on for hours.
As for the obelisk correct me if I'm wrong. They cut it into pieces just like when the moved the valley( correct me again if im wrong). These obelisk and statues were erected and cut precisely out of one piece originally. We still think the bent pyramid was an accident.LOL. We still don't have a clue in my humble opinion because it was deliberate. Look at the degrees. When we study Kemet(egypt) from the inside out, the records show it was either quartz or diamond at the top which to me is amazing. I bet you guys think this was for decoration or ceremonial purposes,huh?? Wrong again. What is even more fascinating, no one even questions or understands the foundation of the pyramids. I'm not talking about the encoded math formulas within the pyramids, I am talking about the pyramidal structure that supports the visible side. Oh wait, you aren't going to talk about that because napoleon or Zahi and the others haven't witnessed it. Right!??!!?

Fully analyze the pyramids with an open mind. Their purpose isn't even fully expressed in any textbook and no one talks about how Tesla was even empowered and inspired by the Giza plateau and we all know his revolutionary ideas are the key to the future, Or the past depending on who you are.
Nice try. But like I said above history isn't linear like we have been lead to believe. It's NOT a start here end here, up-down, and point-to-point. If the theory of evolution is correct according to darwin himself and other fools to follow a theory with a close mind, the creatures that evolve from each other should NOT exist simultaneously. Everything is layered.

Wow you sound biblical by the way you said you aren't here to argue then went into a rant.

In spite of all you said. Yet even today sitting on the bottom of the Nile are giant stone slabs which were meant for the pyramids but landed on the bottom went the boats they were floating on sunk. They're high tech enough to build these giant things without using thousand of humans as labour but they can't raise these expensive hard to shape slabs from the bottom of the nile? Perhaps it's you who had better open your mind my misguided ATS fellow.

Star: This is a common understanding. The rope, pulley, and log transporting system is one of the oldest ways in trying to explain the pyramids. I can think of at least of about 3 systems that have NEVER been discussed.

Hans: Ropes and sleds actually

The Kemetic (egyptian) people did not even perceive reality as we do. For example we see the sky as up as they saw it as down or away so just with this key alone we can see why it would be possible and logical to start at the top of the pyramid. I have yet to hear this approach, because we are still approaching this from the perspective of someone in 2011 not as an ancient Kemite. They used the sand to set the blocks in place, and this why most of the pyramids have vents.

Hans: How nice of you to know that – and you know that how? How many pyramids have vents? How big would this mound of yours be to allow you to 'start at the top"?

Star: In my humble opinion I believe this is due to the limited perception of the human experience. We have a very hard time believing or understanding the concept of infinity. ..snip..... So in essence, time has no beginning and end outside of the human experience. As it is said "time is an illusion. It is a process of eternal now."

Hans: nice new age philosophy but the point is?

Star: I have seen big bulbs especially when constructing big buildings. You did not confirm nor deny the existence of the battery that was tested. I have been studying the glyphs for a while so I know there is a literal message in front of a symbolic message and another message.

This is one I found on the fly, but I have witnessed many other people experiment with the batteries and the bulbs. There wasn't any soot found because they did not use any torches or lamps. We assume they did so they must have right?

Hans: What battery? They used lamps and torches, there is zero evidence for any other lighting method. You might want to take a look at their level of technology – did they have glass blowing technology? Could they create a vacuum? Could they generate electricity? Here is a puzzle for you why are thousands of oil lamps found in AE archaeological sites???? and not a single light bulb?? LOL

Nope, you wanting them to have this level of technology is very touching but not supported by the archaeological evidence - nor their culture

Star: You were trying to tell me it was easy to move these obelisk. The obelisk in D.C. and the others were cut into pieces and then moved. Sure its easy that way. The ancient Kemites cut some of these megaliths out of one single stone with precision that is difficult to achieve today.

Hans: You avoided the main point; go again and look at the Lateran obelisk. I’ll make it easy for you:

1. It was built and moved and set up by the AE
2. The Romans took it down and moved it to Rome
3. The Romans set it up
4. At some point it fell down and broke into three pieces
5. The Vatican put it back up in one piece

Weight 455 tons

The accuracy of the obelisks is easily match and bettered by modern methods

Star: There is still no evidence of this to this day, just speculation. But, they were purposely built on aquifers, they purposely used the stone that resonates vibrations for the longest amount of time and they purposely did many other things. The pyramids were much more than a burial, or a cemetary. They were like a factory that produced the opposite of pollution if one can fathom that. People claim Imhotep made a mistake when making the bent pyramid, but with a higher understanding one will see it was done on purpose and it has significance in relation to the human body.

Hans: Tons of evidence for a tomb, only those who used industrial strength denial can effective ignore the evidence provided by the AE culture and archaeology, but you were partially correct there is lots of 'new age energy' speculation that ignores the Egyptians culture and tries to apply things to the AE that are a bit silly. Okay here is a challenge: provide facts that the pyramids are not tombs but which don't consist of deny the existing evidence.....have fun

I mentioned Tesla and you guys ignore that fact. Go research what he discovered when he went to the Giza plateau.

Hans: I’m not aware of his going to Egypt. I'd see my comment just above

Star: Let's not jump the gun here. Chimps have very little to do with our long history of adaptation. More evidence shows we share a common ancestry with dolphins rather than apes. Apes do not have an innate diving mechanism within their circulatory and respiratory systems.

What the chimps do has nothing to do with our evolution after we separated from them. The AAT died a long time ago from a lack of evidence. We have far more in common with our cousins the apes that a dolphin. We separated from the ancestors of todays dolphins 40-50 million years ago if not longer, apes around 8 - I would think we have more in common with them.....however people do seem to have a deep liking for tuna....hmmmm



However we are taking this thread off topic. If you want to discuss all this - I'd suggest you start a new thread

Originally posted by BIGPoJo
My response?


You do not find miniature gold models of modern lawnmowers.

But we do, and have, found multiple miniature golden models of sylized flying fish.


Harte

whats next thousands of years from know will they find transformer toys and say we turned into cars or had giant robots. Basing idea's off kids toys is bad. The mystery of the great FURBIE lol wonder how many reports that will fill in the future they will swear we had talking alien pets there will be crews to decipher there language..

Originally posted by Hanslune
....ahh, I stand corrected - I will go outside for penance and lie in a pit of bronze age pottery shards until Venus rises

Oooh! I'm jealous!

We are tentatively planning a trip to the Yucatan area for December 2012, and I'm looking forward to getting out to see some of the sites and the museums.

reply to post by Frira


I believe in the possibility of Ancient ETs I think the comparison between the lawnmower and the Inca gold figurines is a stretch.

Sure you could make a toaster fly but where did the Inca get the ideas for a tail rudder and wings on the bottom of their bodies?

Bugs, birds and beetles do not have those two very modern aeronautical design features.

Originally posted by Byrd

Originally posted by Hanslune
....ahh, I stand corrected - I will go outside for penance and lie in a pit of bronze age pottery shards until Venus rises

Oooh! I'm jealous!

We are tentatively planning a trip to the Yucatan area for December 2012, and I'm looking forward to getting out to see some of the sites and the museums.

Great, I can suggest seeing: Tulum, Uxmal, Yaxchilan, Becan, Palenque, Dzibanche (may have spelled that one wrong) and Carakmul. I can also recommend the pollo pibil, papadzules
 and chilaquiles.

Originally posted by BIGPoJo
My response?


You do not find miniature gold models of modern lawnmowers.

I was about to ask the same question after reading his post.
Too funny. I'm still not sure about the whole AA question but they did seem to know a lot about mathematics and astronomy.

Shrugs shoulders.

Its not the shape of the body thats important its the cross section of the wings. From what i could see of the original gold model the wings were flat which means they could not possibly fly.



When they 'scaled' the model up to make the RC plane they added a teardrop cross section to the wing to enable it fly. If they had made a real scale model of the original design it would have done nothing at all. So the whole experiment was a worthless lie.

Originally posted by AKINOFTHEFIRSSTARS
Joseph is NOT "Jesus" as you put it,His father. It is clear she was impregnated by the holy spirit which why they go on to show you the reaction of the people in disbelief. They said what your going to say after you read this, "its impossible" right?!!

Oh not at all. However, the story of Jesus and the story of Horus are very different.

So you are reading into the bible and ancient Kemite folklore way to hard. I guess you believe Isis really transformed into a bird to right. You will never take from it what they took from it.

Depends on which of the manuscripts you read. There's quite a famous picture of her that illustrates this tale (the text around it is a caption which says Isis is mourning Osiris, flying over him in the shape of a falcon and that she's casting the spell to bring him back to life.)

I feel it's pretty certain that this is what they took from it, given other spells and texts that refer to this and given the iconography.

Actually, the word is 'Hekeneut' (you can check the dictionaries for this one... usually given as Hknwt)

Star: we are not referring to the same thing. I'm talking about the concept which isn't even physical, it is a spiritual one. This idea is far older was transmitted across lands before Christianity was invented.

Actually, that's the word for the concept. The source of your word doesn't seem to be any of the Egyptian dictionaries -- so (as far as I can tell) the word you mention didn't exist in the language.

n what manner did they cut the blocks so fine that it resembles modern day lasers??

It doesn't. Have a closer look at the stones. In the interior, you'll find a lot of very rough cut stones and surfaces that aren't finished. Even in the tall column stones of temples, the joints are very visible. They aren't precision cut to the same size, and you can fit a piece of paper between them (or a knife blade) in many places. We can fit stones together so smoothly you can't tell where one ended and one began.


People always tend to lean towards this elementary understanding of how this thing was erected but we aren't dealing with an elementary subject.

No engines, cranes, or other types of modern equipment were used during the construction of the pyramids. The same with Coral Castle, the same with many other sites.

You DO know that there are pictures (and on the Coral Castle site, at that) of Leedskalnin with winches and chains and tripods and pulleys and his blocks of coral.. don't you?

Star: this is pretty common with you guys. If I have or anyone else never posted that insects do NOT have wings on there bottom you guys would be so adamant that it is a recreation of an insect. Now thats out of the way, I have never seen a shark with its head separated from its body nor I have I seen one when replicated in art have over-pronounced fins. Another thing I will like to mention, they applied a nice amount of detail to this artifact, yet they did not include the only way a marine animal of this kind, is able to breathe, gills.
many blessings.

I think you may have looked at only a few of these artifacts. I spent many hours in the Museo del Oro, Costa Rica looking at many of these objects. More were at the Jade Museum in Costa Rica, and a few others were at the National Museum.

If you take the time to look at ALL of these items (not just the handpicked ones they show you), you'll start to recognize both the elements and the styles.

reply to post by Hanslune


Greetings

Oh not at all. However, the story of Jesus and the story of Horus are very different.

Yes, I will agree the literal 'stories' are different, but the same symbolic message is conveyed. There are a few key points that mainstreamers fail to mention. Kemet was a spiritual center and I can think of at least 5 systems of religion that stem directly or indirectly from KMT.

Depends on which of the manuscripts you read. There's quite a famous picture of her that illustrates this tale

It doesn't matter what manuscript you read there is only one truth, and it can not be obtain by literal translation.

Actually, that's the word for the concept. The source of your word doesn't seem to be any of the Egyptian dictionaries -- so (as far as I can tell) the word you mention didn't exist in the language.

See here is where the confusion come's in. I'm not talking about Egyptian diction, I am talking about the Kemite people which predates the Egyptians. Egyptians inhabit the land but they are not the indigenous people. In biblical scripture they use the word Mizrayim(sp??) which is NOT what we would consider to be a modern Egyptian. The modern Egyptian is literally an Arab invader and I mean no harm and it is not my intentions to insult anyone. This is why people like Zahi and other who claim and operate under the misnomer Egyptian, are still searching and learning about their supposed history. Now go to other parts of Africa and you can hear and see detailed descriptions of things that aren't even there anymore due to the invaders. They know of their history, if the invader was an autochthon or the actual indigenous people, they wouldn't have to excavate, they would be able to tell you, unless they just acquired the worst case of amnesia ever. Ask the United States citizens, who built Mt. Rushmore and I think they are aware and in fact Mt Rushmore resembles some of the United States citizen. It is funny, the Egyptian does not resemble the indigenous Kemite people that we see in the heiroglyphs, unless we go to the later dynasty where the royal blood no longer ruled the throne, due to invaders.

It doesn't. Have a closer look at the stones. In the interior, you'll find a lot of very rough cut stones and surfaces that aren't finished.

Yes, I will openly agree, I have no problem with that but not all of them. Just like the Great Pyramid,it is composed of different types of stones rough and very smooth. There is only a small trace of them remaining but we aren't looking at this in its proper light. Things like osirion(sp) and other megatliths.
Peace and blessings

reply to post by AKINOFTHEFIRSSTARS


I think you meant that for Strategos Byrd

I've seen some of the third season of this show, and to be perfectly honest it's an insult to one's intelligence.

The idea that non-human beings interacted with ancient civilisations is an attractive idea that holds some weight maybe - but some of the themes of the recent series are really stretching that idea to it's limit - the show has rarely been informative, and now it's not even entertaining. I think they covered all they had in season 1 - and even that only made the flimsiest of cases.

Originally posted by VelvetSplash
I've seen some of the third season of this show, and to be perfectly honest it's an insult to one's intelligence.

The idea that non-human beings interacted with ancient civilisations is an attractive idea that holds some weight maybe - but some of the themes of the recent series are really stretching that idea to it's limit - the show has rarely been informative, and now it's not even entertaining. I think they covered all they had in season 1 - and even that only made the flimsiest of cases.

Howdy VS

I believe the descriptor you are looking for to describe the quality of the shows is 'dribble', dribble is what you get when you have really bad drivel.

Isn't dribble what you do when you're in the 'special' academy?