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American Dominance on the World Stage

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posted on Aug, 29 2004 @ 10:07 AM
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i edited the post becuz i messed up on the quote thingy (im new to the quoting thingy) but what my point is, why cant the iraqis decide which form of gov they like better, theve been brainwashed for years they need to see and experience it, you think that they all love living they way they did, but maybe some did and some didint, i think the only ones who loved it, were the rich ones under saddams protection and such, the rest were poor and knew no better...




posted on Aug, 29 2004 @ 10:14 AM
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Originally posted by UK Wizard
ImAMERICAN I think you should grow up, what are you 10! You refuse to listen to other peoples ideas and opinions


Originally posted by imAMERICAN
WHO ARE YOU TO SAY WHAT THE IRAQIS WANTED!


I'd like to put that question to you as well, Who are you to say what the iraqis wanted!


I noticed you edited you post, think before you type




Actualy, he didn't edit his post, he just had a ["quote"] tag problem going on, his post was included in the quote, he fixed that.(you see iamAMERICAN, I'll even defend you when I think your assaulted without reason)


As an answer to AMERICAN, I think the Iraqi people are quite clearly showing that they don't want the US there. Maybe its because they lived in a dictatorship so long, maybe their culture just doesn't alow it to happen, maybe they want a democracy, but like alot of other people in the world, see that a democracy put in place by the US goverment is NOT a democracy at all, but a corrupt goverment put in place to reflect the wants and needs of the US Goverment instead of that of the Iraqi people.

[edit on 29-8-2004 by thematrix]



posted on Aug, 29 2004 @ 10:20 AM
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compare



look i hate to use personal atks, but u rele are stupid, those iraqis ARE NOT LIVING THE IDEAL DAM N MUSLIM LIFE! they were being tortured and brutalized and had no rights whatsoever! WHO ARE YOU TO SAY WHAT THE IRAQIS WANTED! THEY DIDINT KNOW HOW WONDERFULL THE FREEDOMS WE ENJOY ARE! MAYBE IF THEY GOT A CHANCE TO TASTE IT, THEY COULD DECIDE FOR THEMSELVES WHILE THEY ARENT UNDER A DICTATOR! OPEN YOUR EYES!

[edit on 29-8-2004 by imAMERICAN]



and what he said before edit, which i had quoted before he changed it




quote: Originally posted by imAMERICAN

look i hate to use personal atks, but u rele are stupid, those iraqis ARE NOT LIVING THE IDEAL DAM N MUSLIM LIFE! they were being tortured and brutalized and had no rights whatsoever! WHO ARE YOU TO SAY WHAT THE IRAQIS WANTED! THEY DIDINT KNOW HOW WONDERFULL THE FREEDOMS WE ENJOY ARE! MAYBE IF THEY GOT A CHANCE TO TASTE IT, THEY COULD DECIDE FOR THEMSELVES WHILE THEY ARENT UNDER A DICTATOR! OPEN YOUR EYES!
The ATS administrator should ban you from this forum.



it's the last line that it different, yes i know you'll proberly say i did it, but i just wanted to present my evidence. I'm not trying to make trouble, i just wanted to defend my accusation.

I'll shut up about the subject now


[edit on 29-8-2004 by UK Wizard]



posted on Aug, 29 2004 @ 10:33 AM
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i was fixing an accident wherei put my reply, in the quote i made- it was a mistake and i fixed it, anyway, i dont think the gov, is corrupt. becuz they have the power to remove american troops from iraq (not that they ever will implement it) but thats besides my point, and i dont think its the iraqis, its a small group who lost everything when saddam fell- the loyal supporters, AND lets not forget when we first invaded, they said, drop your weapons and go home- well they did, and they donned civilian clothing and hidden AK's, so basically we are fighting the iraqi army that fled, and donnet guerrilla tactics, and the terrorist like insurgents that either-hate the usa, or lost everything in the invasion- i dont think the average iraqi hates the americans, from what ive seen



posted on Aug, 29 2004 @ 10:54 AM
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Originally posted by imAMERICAN


that in ww1, the russians pulled out and the entire weight of Germany was on France, France was going to fall if the Americans didint come and fill in the ranks to push back ther germans,


actually you know nothing about that. hell the germans did do an advance and couldnt take it they didnt have the troops hell your troops didnt get thier untill 1918 ! your forces done feck all in that war. all you did was give supplies thats all!

Originally posted by imAMERICAN
and in ww2, the british (no offense to british cuz they our homies)
couldnt push through into germ (AFTER THE USA LED LIBERATION OF FRANCE [not that it was all americans, it was majority but besides my point]) i watched that on a documentary about ww2. AND need i remind YOU, if the americans didint liberate up to the Rhine river (i believe it was the Rhine in germ im not sure exactly) the russians woulda pounded not to berlin-but all the way to western france and Europe woulda been in the state that Eastern Europe was for 40 or so years: COMMUNISM

[edit on 29-8-2004 by imAMERICAN]

[edit on 29-8-2004 by imAMERICAN]

what?
no u r an idiot. hell the combined might of french and british forces would of atleast held off russia. hell we aint defenselss ,we ruled the sky's!
actually it wasnt an american led you guys were the bulk but not the leading force we went in first and were the last to leave.



posted on Aug, 29 2004 @ 10:57 AM
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Originally posted by imAMERICAN
i was fixing an accident wherei put my reply, in the quote i made- it was a mistake and i fixed it, anyway, i dont think the gov, is corrupt. becuz they have the power to remove american troops from iraq (not that they ever will implement it) but thats besides my point, and i dont think its the iraqis, its a small group who lost everything when saddam fell- the loyal supporters, AND lets not forget when we first invaded, they said, drop your weapons and go home- well they did, and they donned civilian clothing and hidden AK's, so basically we are fighting the iraqi army that fled, and donnet guerrilla tactics, and the terrorist like insurgents that either-hate the usa, or lost everything in the invasion- i dont think the average iraqi hates the americans, from what ive seen

acutally i think they do hate you.
when you see your families and friends being killed by american bombs and soldeirs ,some by acident and some on purpose, you would hate them.


GD

posted on Aug, 29 2004 @ 11:20 AM
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Originally posted by WisdomMaster

Originally posted by GD
People said the same thing about Japan after WW 2. That turned into a pretty successful democracy. Societies have to learn democracy. Some folks get it a little quicker, but they all go through growing pains.

I challange you to give me evidence that any American soldiers are raping children in Iraq. In making that statement, I would ask you with what unit you served, where you served (in the Middle east) and what was your MOS?

I know and work with many muslims. I have fought beside them. I have fought to defend them. They DO have the same values as we do. That was a statement of overt prejudice.



Just google: american soldiers raping children
What a shame man!!! I am pissed off.

Iraq's Child Prisoners (what a #ING shame!!!!)

Kids sodomized at Abu Ghraib, Pentagon has the videos

Rumors of rape fan anti-American flames

and hundreds more...


Blogs don't count as proof. This very same Boston.com story has already been disproved. You are all sheep. You will believe what the liberal press says and follow their agenda. I truly hope you all wake up before it is too late.


GD

posted on Aug, 29 2004 @ 11:25 AM
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Actually, something like 2 out 0f 3 Iraqis do approve the war.


GD

posted on Aug, 29 2004 @ 11:39 AM
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www.usatoday.com...

www.kmax.ws...

www.ratherbiased.com...

www.channel4.com...

www.freerepublic.com...

There is a bunch of good news out there. Most of you just want to feed into the media frenzy without examining the facts.



posted on Aug, 29 2004 @ 01:18 PM
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Originally posted by GD
www.usatoday.com...


A short peice about a Soldier who sent an email. Whoot, can I get one too? Ive sent loads of email! Good reporting my ass.



www.kmax.ws...


Someones blog - great facts.



www.ratherbiased.com...


A 'scientific' study into how there were more negative stories ran than positive ones since the 'end of the war' speech. Well, hell, maybe thats just because more negative things happened, ever seen the evening news lately? Try counting the ratio when you next do, you will more than likely, over the same period of time, get exactly the same ratio for good:bad.




www.channel4.com...


A piece on Tony Blairs opinions. I have opinions also, mainly about Blair being a lapdog with a bowtie in his hair, running after Bush.



www.freerepublic.com...


freerepublic.com has been shown to be as biased as some of the people on this board before.

Lets see about the points that they make in that post:

"Hundreds of thousands of children who had not received proper medical care now have up-to-date immunizations and other medical care." - it may suprise you, but regardless of how bad the 'Oil for Aid' was being abused, the sanctions hit exactly these children. The sanctions forbid the purchase of the amounts of medication that would have been required for the 'proper medical care' that the US/UK are now offering, and remember that those sanctions were artificial, presanction Iraq had a medical system on par with Kuwait.

"School attendance, by some estimates, is up 80% from levels before the war. Among those being educated are young girls who previously may not have received proper education." - the key words here are 'by some estimates', Baghdad and the other major cities already had mixed and female only schools. There are still worse off countries than pre invasion Iraq, by far.

"Despite much publicity early in the war that power plants had been bombed or sabotaged, what hasnt received wide publicity is that today Iraq now has more electrical power than it did before the war." - Yes, you know why? Because the UN sanctions forbid purchase of enough technology to replace the generating units destroyed during the 1991 conflict, and other bombing campaigns during the 1990s.

"Hundreds of thousands of people have telephones for the first time ever." - What use is telephones when you really want food and medical supplies?

"Textbooks that don't mention Saddam are in the schools for the first time in 30 years." - Hmm propaganda, cool.

Basically, most of the current plus points of the invasion of Iraq are the result of the UN lifting sanctions and the country finally having the tools and trained people to carry out repairs.

[quote
There is a bunch of good news out there. Most of you just want to feed into the media frenzy without examining the facts.

And some of you just want to feed into the propaganda without examining the facts. Why is it that every discussion on this board seems to degenerate into an Iraq Invasion discussion? Grow up people, there is more than a single opinion on the matter.

Iraq sure is better off now, with Saddam behind bars and an Interim government in power (i refuse to call it democratic, because it isnt). I dont dispute that, and NEITHER DO PEOPLE IN FRANCE OR GERMANY. But, guys, the reason the invasion is disputed is that pretty much all of the evidence that the US and the UK took to the UN security council was in doubt, it wasnt convincing and the rest of the security council said so.

Theres this thing in the US called 'due process', and even the most hardened criminal is allowed it. Its enshrined in your constitution and bill of rights, and it basically says this: 'Mob rule in the US is not allowed - everyone is entitled to a fair trial'. No matter if you are a drug dealer or what, you get the same treatment.

What the US and the UK did was akin to a police officer asking a court for a warrant of search, getting turned down but going ahead with the raid anyway. Oh well, he didnt really find anything, but thats OK because he knew that this person is a bad person and the neighbourhood is a better place without him.

Iraq is a better place, but the way it was done does not fit in with the heritage or the great history of the US or the UK.


GD

posted on Aug, 29 2004 @ 06:55 PM
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There were pertinant links within the blog. The links I gae are a whole lot less biased than CNN or CBS. Additionally, this war was waged in accordance with numerous UN Resolutions. Weapons of Masss Destruction were found, as was evidence that they were buried in Syria. Had Saddam resigned, there would have been no sanctions. Had the money Iraq had rasied gone where it was supposed to (as opposed to the French weapons salesman and Geman contractors) then everyone would have had what they needed. In either case it was not the fault of the United States.



posted on Aug, 29 2004 @ 07:09 PM
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We found hundreds of thousands in mass graves, dozens of chemical weapons, and terrorist camps. Among other things, they had an illegal ballistic missile system, and were buying something better from North Korea. The Iraqi-Niger claims have been proven...

I'd say we've found enough to justify taking out a sadistic asshole like Saddam. We've also given help to the people in the process.

I find it funny Europeans always bitch about American arrogance, but always spew out a good amount of their own in the process.


Come over here right now and I'll defend my freedom, my honor and my good name as a Belgian who will fight to the bitter end to defend himself, his family and if needed his country and the world.


You guys have stunk of nuetrality since WW2. Where was this honor and pride when the Nazis used your country to invade France...?

The Germans are not the only ones who should be disgraced about actions during WW2. I'm not just talking about the French, either. The British were in the business of appeasing Hitler until he invaded Poland. Even after Poland the Germans had to bring the war to the French and British.

As for the true purpose of this topic, American military dominance-there isn't any competition and won't be for a long time.

China probably won't be able to rival us for decades. They don't have an economy large enough to match us in spending, and wont' for some time. Even with an economy of equal size, they'll have more spread out spending. The military budget will still be far smaller. They've yet to produce anything really on their own. Even their J-10 was made by Isrealis and Russians.

The Russians never really compared to us in the air. Their avionics were far behind ours, and that's far more important then the frame. The SU-47 wouldn't even be competition for the F-22, more like a rival for the JSF. It's doubtful they'll be making a fifth generation plane anytime soon, either. They couldn't even get funds when they asked other nations...

Europe is full of a bunch of military midgets. Maybe when the EU starts to faze out the individual governments they'll be more of a rival. That's a long way off, though.


GD

posted on Aug, 29 2004 @ 08:59 PM
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Maybe when the EU starts to faze out the individual governments they'll be more of a rival. That's a long way off, though.


IF they phase them out. The europeans cant play nice with others, let alone themselves.



posted on Aug, 29 2004 @ 09:43 PM
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Listen, all Americans here, I must have a word with you. Do not lower your selfs to other countries levels. They are just saying stuff you try and get you mad, deep down, who is the best? USA ALL THE WAY. Simple as that. Just ignore then and think to your self. Thats why I stop posting, pretty soon they will die out the haters and have nothing to say but repeat and repeat. Also, don't listen to DEVILWASP, he once told me that he would give up his own soldiers life to kill one man. I can dig that post up. Thank you have a nice day.



posted on Aug, 30 2004 @ 01:15 AM
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Originally posted by Disturbed Deliverer

Come over here right now and I'll defend my freedom, my honor and my good name as a Belgian who will fight to the bitter end to defend himself, his family and if needed his country and the world.


You guys have stunk of nuetrality since WW2. Where was this honor and pride when the Nazis used your country to invade France...?

The Germans are not the only ones who should be disgraced about actions during WW2. I'm not just talking about the French, either. The British were in the business of appeasing Hitler until he invaded Poland. Even after Poland the Germans had to bring the war to the French and British.


You can come here and ask the WW1 and WW2 war veterans that are still alive to testify how they fought. You'll have to be fast though because there are only a few left and those that are left are the very few that get to die of old age.

European country's, the US, Russia and other nations from all around the world are who won WW1 and WW2. Not just the US. Without working together, all of us, noone would have won against Hitler.

And don't you go say other countrys were appeasing Hitler, your current presidents granddady had his damn company seized by the US goverment because he was playing Hitlers personal banker.



posted on Aug, 30 2004 @ 07:28 AM
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Originally posted by Disturbed Deliverer
We found hundreds of thousands in mass graves, dozens of chemical weapons, and terrorist camps. Among other things, they had an illegal ballistic missile system, and were buying something better from North Korea. The Iraqi-Niger claims have been proven...


Really?

Lets see, Iraq-Niger claims: proven false. Sources:

The New Yorker

Arms Control Association

CNN

Global Policy Forum

Working For Change

Independant Media

Basically the only thing that stands up to scrutiny is the fact that in 1999 Iraqi officials visited Niger, and this was later proven to be about Oil extraction techniques.

WMD finds? Lets see:

Botulism testtube found 'in scientists home fridge' was over 10 years old

Missile find 'false'

No evidence found

Butler report says that 'WMD claims are now uncertain'

CIA paper says 'Iraq had no nuclear capability and was not seeking it

Suspected chemical weapons find proves negative

Mobile WMD production facilities proven false


THe main things that the pro invasion media and people are grasping are the 'finds' of two old shells (yes, TWO single shells) carrying chemical weapons. Oh and a number of sacks carrying coca beans, which may or may not have been used to make Sarin (despite the fact they were found in a coca oil factory)


Ive never disputed that removing Saddam was a good thing, as proven by the mass graves found. What I, and many other people, dispute IS THE LEVEL OF EVIDENCE that supported the invasion. It was a bunch of crap, pure and simple. How do you expect to get a resolution based on patently bad evidence? You cant and indeed you didnt, and THAT is the thing here. Basically post invasion justification has come down to 'he was a bad man and Iraq is now better off without him'.

As much as I hate to say it, the blatent ProAmericanism and flag waving from americans on this board has forced me to conceed that the good information I gain from this board is not enough for me to continue to wade through all the propaganda posted. I mean, lets face it, in the past week we havent really had a forum topic that hasnt degenerated into american flag waving. Ive had enough.

Oh and one last thing. If the US was so noble and great in WW2, why did you appease Hitler before the invasion of Poland (as you have accused the UK of doing). Why did you not participate in the war until GERMANY DECLARED WAR ON YOU? Why did you sell the UK outdated ships for more than they were origionally built for. Why did you insist that the UK government pay for *all* the supplies shipped to the UK between 1939 and 1945, even tho over 50% of those supplies were for your men?

You like to think yourselves as being the best, but your treatment of France recently is something to be ashamed of, to be honest. Lets see. WW1 Invasion, france actually did a very good effort in maintaining the line where it was. The line didnt actually move very much when British and American troops arrived, a matter of a few 10s of miles. WW2? Germany was supposed to be kept under control by the league of nations, of which the US refused to be a major player in, and indeed it was American money which financed much of Germanys rearmament. Why does all focus fall on France, when in both wars Belgium and other countries fell quicker.

Im going to be called anti american for this, and really Im not, Im just anti propaganda and anti Bush. But in this day and age, theres not much difference given, and Im sorry, but this round of 'patriotism' going around the US at the moment just stinks of the same thing Hitler did in the mid 1930s.



posted on Aug, 30 2004 @ 08:27 AM
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I agree wholeheartedly, very well said Richard. Your last sentence is particularly pertinent, its like the board is run by Fox News its so over the top.



posted on Aug, 30 2004 @ 10:16 AM
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Originally posted by Disturbed Deliverer






You guys have stunk of nuetrality since WW2. Where was this honor and pride when the Nazis used your country to invade France...?

The Germans are not the only ones who should be disgraced about actions during WW2. I'm not just talking about the French, either. The British were in the business of appeasing Hitler until he invaded Poland. Even after Poland the Germans had to bring the war to the French and British.

.

oh yes and i suppose the fact that the schliefen plan was delayed by a couple of months wasnt due to belgium defensive positions? no its cause they stopped to take a pee isnt it?
germans be disgraced? get real
we british hold no grudge wi them.unlike u
the french are good as well so dont diss them.
yeah cause we werent ready for war, im sorry we didnt go in all guns blazeing and stormed berlin but we werent prepared for that. do you have any idea how long it takes to raise an army and get across the channel? no u dont also we were waiting for them but we were outmanovoured.

[edit on 30-8-2004 by devilwasp]



posted on Aug, 30 2004 @ 10:18 AM
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Originally posted by Laxpla
Listen, all Americans here, I must have a word with you. Do not lower your selfs to other countries levels. They are just saying stuff you try and get you mad, deep down, who is the best? USA ALL THE WAY. Simple as that. Just ignore then and think to your self. Thats why I stop posting, pretty soon they will die out the haters and have nothing to say but repeat and repeat. Also, don't listen to DEVILWASP, he once told me that he would give up his own soldiers life to kill one man. I can dig that post up. Thank you have a nice day.

actually i didnt say that. please tell me when i said i would trade one of my mens life for anothers?
yes of course just cause ur forces got your asses kicked by a bunch of third world insurgents.

[edit on 30-8-2004 by devilwasp]



posted on Aug, 30 2004 @ 10:34 AM
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Originally posted by Disturbed Deliverer


Europe is full of a bunch of military midgets. Maybe when the EU starts to faze out the individual governments they'll be more of a rival. That's a long way off, though.

yes of course thats why you buy most tech off us?
radar comunication,sending radar info from one plane to another, was invented by the sweedish airforce and on the gryphen before you had it on paper.
Chobham armour,the best armour availible, made in britain and shipped to the US to put on thier tanks.
super lynx,made by westland helicopters a british company, fastest most agile helicopter made. only helicopter that can loop with out stalling.
challanger 2 tank best protected tank in the world.
harrier jump jet ,made by BA and boing under licence, first VSTOL jet made.
nbnow tell me all of these inventions are not used by the american military.





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