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Oh, for Heaven's sake, give it a rest already!

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posted on Oct, 5 2011 @ 11:13 AM
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Why the hell are people so damn vindictive in this world? Why is it that they feel the need to track down people how have lived honest, productive lives for decades and put them on trial for something that happened over half a century ago?


Hundreds of Nazi probes reopened

Nearly seven decades after the end of World War II, German authorities have reopened hundreds of dormant investigations of Nazi death camp guards in an eleventh hour attempt that could result in at least dozens of new prosecutions, The Associated Press has learned.

Special Nazi war-crimes investigators reopened the files after the conviction of former U.S. autoworker John Demjanjuk, whose case set a new legal precedent in Germany, said Kurt Schrimm, the prosecutor who heads the unit.

Given the advanced age of all of the suspects, investigators are not waiting until the Demjanjuk appeals process is over, he said.

Yahoo News


Under the new standards, they only have to prove that a person served as a guard at a facility where exterminations were taking place to find them guilty. They don't even have to prove that the person ever took part in any killings themselves; if they were a guard in the compound, they are guilty of genocide, or something equally silly.

These men were ordered to serve as guards at those facilities under a regime that wouldn't hesitate to shoot dissenters if they spoke up. Merely the fact that they guarded the fences to make sure no one escaped makes them a horrible criminal that must be hunted down 70 years after the fact to face persecution for doing their jobs in their old age.

If they have lived their lives for 70 years without any further criminal acts, they should be left alone. I'm sure most of them feel regret for what they were forced to do in their youth.



It makes you wonder; if, 70 years from now the US isn't such a great and feared world power, will they be hunting down the guards who served at Guantanamo Bay and Abu Graib in the same way?




edit on 10/5/11 by FortAnthem because:
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posted on Oct, 5 2011 @ 11:19 AM
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It does seem like over kill..considering that many were most likely forced into accepting the nazi regime.

Makes me wonder if certain Americans were ever put on trial for crimes against humanity, if every soldier that guarded something in which he really had no decision in making happen, would follow as well.



posted on Oct, 5 2011 @ 11:20 AM
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reply to post by FortAnthem
 


Not saying they were all innocent. Hardly the case. But many of them didnt have a choice. They had to do what their leader and government told them to do or else they were convicted of treason and then put to death along with their family.



posted on Oct, 5 2011 @ 11:22 AM
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reply to post by FortAnthem
 


Are you worried about something ?

Justice is justice.

It's about time.



posted on Oct, 5 2011 @ 11:29 AM
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Originally posted by skepticconwatcher
reply to post by FortAnthem
 


Are you worried about something ?

Justice is justice.

It's about time.


That is a rather bold statement. How's about we start prosecuting all people who guarded an internment camp in North America? There is no difference. I bet you are one of the many people that defend "enhanced interrogation techniques too". Using these standards, we also be prosecuting all personnel that guarded or were present at any of the prisons in Iraq.

This is a very slippery slope to start down. It was 70 years ago, let it go already.



posted on Oct, 5 2011 @ 11:30 AM
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Originally posted by skepticconwatcher
reply to post by FortAnthem
 


Are you worried about something ?

Justice is justice.

It's about time.




Truth is Truth...

It's about about time...

Are you worried about something yourself?



posted on Oct, 5 2011 @ 11:39 AM
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reply to post by reeferman
 


What they did is they changed the standards necessary for prosecution 70 years later and reopended the witch hunt for people who, up until they changed that standard, were peaceful, law abiding citizens. Now, they want to send these people to jail.

Am I worried about something? You bet I am.

I served in the Army during Operation Desert storm. During that time, I didn't do anything that would be considered a war crime but, who is to say that 70 odd years in the future, some ICC tribunal may decide that just my participation in the invasion of Iraq makes me guilty of some crime against humanity.

As a result of my participation in that invasion, Iraq was placed under a sanctions regime that cost hundreds of thousands of people their lives from starvation, poor medical care and untreated water.

I was just a soldier following orders who thought I was doing my partiotic duty by liberating the people of Kuwait. What happened afterward is a crying shame and a crime against humanity. Who is to say that future generations may not try to hold me accountable for the part I played in that crime?


edit on 10/5/11 by FortAnthem because:




posted on Oct, 5 2011 @ 11:39 AM
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Originally posted by Rook1545

Originally posted by skepticconwatcher
reply to post by FortAnthem
 


Are you worried about something ?

Justice is justice.

It's about time.


That is a rather bold statement. How's about we start prosecuting all people who guarded an internment camp in North America? There is no difference. I bet you are one of the many people that defend "enhanced interrogation techniques too". Using these standards, we also be prosecuting all personnel that guarded or were present at any of the prisons in Iraq.

This is a very slippery slope to start down. It was 70 years ago, let it go already.


Yea you forgot something a little important that is the difference in you comparison. I don't seem to recall the US committing genocide against any of the Japanese Americans or separating the families never to see them again because they where put in a Gas chamber or put in a blast furnace alive.BY THE MILLIONS!
edit on 10/5/2011 by CaptGizmo because: (no reason given)



posted on Oct, 5 2011 @ 11:42 AM
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THANK YOU! Somebody finally said it.

The History channel is mostly the Hitler channel. I know there is more history out there than the years 1939 - 1945. It is getting damned tiresome.

Before you jump on me, my father, as a 7 year old child, had to flee the Nazis because his Slavic blood meant there was a spot for him in the extermination camps. I grew up with stories of deprivation, starvation, fleeing with only the clothes on one's back, etc. Was it evil? Yes. But how much more television and newspaper mileage are they trying to get out of beating this dead horse? My father grew tired of talking about it, and only wanted to look forward, not back.

How about they prosecute the US Government for their "Operation Paperclip", in which the government shipped over literally thousands of die-hard Nazis, their families and even their mistresses, gave them citizenship and "forgiveness", so they would work for the government and give us all their precious Nazi science secrets? How about charging the Bush family with trading with the enemy during WW II? How about getting the banks who laundered Nazi money while the banks pretended to be all-American?

What gets me riled is the utter gall, the freaking HYPOCRISY of the United States, when it comes to Nazi Germany. As far as I'm concerned, Jim Marrs is correct when he says that the US is the "fourth reich". We picked up where they left off, only we're sneakier and our flag has different colors.



posted on Oct, 5 2011 @ 11:46 AM
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reply to post by CaptGizmo
 


No, I didn't forget that part. The people that were ORDERED to be at those camps, and did not participate in genocide, did nothing wrong. They did not throw anyone into an oven. These were just guys doing their jobs. They are the same guys that manned the bunkers on D-Day. Should we go after those guys too? What about the Luftwaffe? It was an order that they got, they didn't have any choice. The same as the guys guarding the Japanese.

LIke it was pointed out, you don't know what will happen in 70 years, you start with this now, and who knows, it could back to bite American soldiers later on.



posted on Oct, 5 2011 @ 11:49 AM
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Originally posted by FortAnthem

I was just a soldier following orders who thought I was doing my partiotic duty by liberating the people of Kuwait. What happened afterward is a crying shame and a crime against humanity. Who is to say that future generations may not try to hold me accountable for the part I played in that crime?


You just admitted that you helped crimes against humanity occur. Hell yes, you should be held accountable. You are instructed to disobey an illegal order/immoral order. Instead, you helped kick in the door and bum rush the place. Was it you specifically who handed down restrictions on drinking water? No, but you helped it happen.

Just because you felt you were following orders doesnt make it right. If someone tells you to pull the trigger, you are still guilty of murder as a civilian....

Im not dumping on the military, I just wish more of our soldiers would use critical thinking BEFORE joining the armed forces and helping to pillage smaller countries.



posted on Oct, 5 2011 @ 11:52 AM
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reply to post by aching_knuckles
 


I see the points you are making, and I agree..

BUT.. what about the many who have been forced to join, for instance during the vietnam war...

They were labelled cowards if they deflected, and went to another country.

Just wondering as to what choice many germans had during the times of Hitler.



posted on Oct, 5 2011 @ 11:59 AM
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Originally posted by FortAnthem
It makes you wonder; if, 70 years from now the US isn't such a great and feared world power, will they be hunting down the guards who served at Guantanamo Bay and Abu Graib in the same way?


Guantanamo is horrible but it would be a big mistake to compare this
with the German KZ,
this Places have been a "Machinery of Death" (Toetungsmaschiene)
this is still very unique in the Human History!

But i am sure that Guantanamo is also a Crime against Humanity
and the Guards are in plight to Disobey every Order!



posted on Oct, 5 2011 @ 11:59 AM
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Okay they must have run out of people to send to prison......this is completely ridiculous that they even bring this up gosh leave the past in the past. s&f for you.



posted on Oct, 5 2011 @ 12:00 PM
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Originally posted by Rook1545

Originally posted by skepticconwatcher
reply to post by FortAnthem
 


Are you worried about something ?

Justice is justice.

It's about time.


That is a rather bold statement. How's about we start prosecuting all people who guarded an internment camp in North America? There is no difference. I bet you are one of the many people that defend "enhanced interrogation techniques too". Using these standards, we also be prosecuting all personnel that guarded or were present at any of the prisons in Iraq.

This is a very slippery slope to start down. It was 70 years ago, let it go already.


We should have prosecuted those people too. They were rounding up and detaining fellow Americans. Clearly, they cared little for human rights.

As far as the ex-Nazis? Well, I'm a forgiving guy but if I spent years "only" guarding a facility that tortured and murdered countless men, women, and children, I would expect to eventually atone for my sins. People who are tracked down should not be surprised nor should they feel it is unfair.



posted on Oct, 5 2011 @ 12:01 PM
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reply to post by aching_knuckles
 


What is a true shame is the fact that our soldiers could end up facing justice for the decisions forced on them by this country's policymakers. You can be damn sure it will be a cold day in hell before anyone from Washington has to face justice for what their policy decisions do to one of the countries we've overrun.

The soldier's actions may not individually add up to any war crimes; I never fired a weapon or destroyed any vital infrastructure during my time in Iraq. There were no unlawful orders for me to refuse during my time there but, because I took part in the overall effort, one could say I took part in those war crimes.

If they want to seek justice against those responsible for war crimes, they should seek out those who were responsible for making the decisions that led to those crimes, not the individual soldiers who simply took part in a greater overall scheme they could not comprehend.

edit on 10/5/11 by FortAnthem because:



posted on Oct, 5 2011 @ 12:03 PM
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Comparing places like "Gitmo" and Abu Grab to Nazi death camps is like comparing apples and oranges. Factories for death established by the third Reich under Nazism take the prize for A**hole of the World Club bar none. Guards who ran these facilities were exclusively Schultz Staffe (SS). These are the poster boys for Hitler's NWO and fully understood their job description TO_A_"T". Sorry about the spelling. Nothing since compares to that era of barbarism procreated by the Third Reich under Der Furher.

Now if you want to talk about A**hole of the World Club runner up...



posted on Oct, 5 2011 @ 12:03 PM
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reply to post by FortAnthem
 


This is no different than there being no statue of limitations on murder here in the U.S.
What they did was a willful act of hatred against another sect of humans,trying to wipe them off the face of the earth.There must be a strong message sent to others that if you try to decimate another group due to their beliefs,race or nationality you will never get away with it.



posted on Oct, 5 2011 @ 12:08 PM
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Originally posted by Dimithae
reply to post by FortAnthem
 


This is no different than there being no statue of limitations on murder here in the U.S.
What they did was a willful act of hatred against another sect of humans,trying to wipe them off the face of the earth.There must be a strong message sent to others that if you try to decimate another group due to their beliefs,race or nationality you will never get away with it.


Those soldiers didn't make the decision to commit those crimes, for the most part, they were merely told to stand guard at the camps and make sure no one escaped. Holding the guard responsible for the work of the executioner is wrong IMO.

If they can prove that those guards took part in the killings, then they should be prosecuted to the fullest extent of the law. Prosecuting them for merely being present where the killings took place is a travesty of justice.



posted on Oct, 5 2011 @ 12:08 PM
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Originally posted by Rook1545
reply to post by CaptGizmo
 


No, I didn't forget that part. The people that were ORDERED to be at those camps, and did not participate in genocide, did nothing wrong. They did not throw anyone into an oven. These were just guys doing their jobs. They are the same guys that manned the bunkers on D-Day. Should we go after those guys too? What about the Luftwaffe? It was an order that they got, they didn't have any choice. The same as the guys guarding the Japanese.

LIke it was pointed out, you don't know what will happen in 70 years, you start with this now, and who knows, it could back to bite American soldiers later on.


Well by your reasoning...no one would be held responsible except for the Leader of said country, because all the upper ranking officers can say is" I am innocent, I was ordered to pull the lever that injects the poisonous gas that killed the families"."I was innocent I was ordered to open the gates to usher the families into the concentration camps that killed all of the families".







 
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