Why the death penalty should be abolished

There would be no problems if the Prosecution wouldn't jump the gun before ALL evidence is collected, examined ect.

someone said the Death Penalty is barbaric... and the things someone does to deserve the DP is not barbaric??

SO, in other words your perfectly fine with taxpayer money paying for someone to live out the rest of their life in relative comfort ( food, tv, books and a bed ) just to avoid putting someone who probably deserves it, down.

and pray tell, what should we do with the repeat sex offenders? I would love to hear it

reply to post by TinkerHaus


Hi, just want to say thank you for your informative post. My personal view is that no. Human person has the right to take away the life of another, no matter how serious the crime that has been committed, life should not be taken away by a selected group of people no more than life saving cancer treatment is denied to prolong or save life.

The maximum should be life imprisonment and without possibility of release, but I. Would make sure prisons where a place of punishment and not some holiday camp and training school to plot future crimes. A posthumous pardon to an innocent person is not justice served, an innocent person executed by the state is a crime yet we do not see their executioners face justice .

Originally posted by TinkerHaus
reply to post by doctornamtab

 

In the event that one of my family members or myself (god forbid) were the victim of a violent crime, I do not think I would feel any better knowing that the person had been put to death.

I don't care if that person inhabits the same planet as I do as long as they are behind bars and cannot hurt anyone else. I do not need revenge to move forward in my life.

In fact, I would hope that the offender would eventually feel remorse and seek forgiveness for his crimes. Not feel sorry for themselves, but truly see that what they have done is wrong and have a chance in life to make what amends they could.

For me, seeing that someone was truly sorry for the pain they caused would be a much more satisfying closure than seeing them die.

edit on 5-10-2011 by TinkerHaus because: (no reason given)

I wasnt really talking about revenge. But just because you dont need that satisfaction doesn't mean that everyone doesnt need it.

I was more talking about how much a burden someone is to society when they choose not to improve themselves. These criminals are hopeless and care about no one, not even themselves. All criminals should get the CHANCE to rehabilitate themselves. If some don't even want that chance so what do we do with them? Leave them in prison where they may murder a guard or get out on some BS technicality? No, they should be put down like the rabid dogs they are.

Why is it ok to put down a dog that is a danger to society but not a human being? Shouldnt we be more willing to execute a human since humans have rational capacity and (hopefully) empathy? Human beings can change, dogs not so much. But when that human doesnt WANT to change what then?

reply to post by TinkerHaus


first off if we the people have direct evidence proving beyond a reasonable doubt that you killed. we should take you outside and put a bullet in your head in a public display. No life in prison or any of that nonsense and you can sit there and tell me till your blue in the face that the death penalty isn't a deterrent. WELL NO # maybe if you dragged little johnny down to watch one he wouldn't be so inclined to commit such a crime. Then there's the whole prison system its self lets bring back the roman games, hard labor if you want a deterrent. Locking someone in a box for years isn't doing anybody any good it cost money to feed and house them and yes I can put a value on human life when it's costing me money to support them.

reply to post by synapse5760


I knew this thread would bring out some crazies.

You're saying we should immediately execute these people, right after trial, with a bullet to the head in a public setting for all to see.

This attitude is the reason these crimes happen in the first place. I think you missed the point of the thread.

Have a great day.

reply to post by doctornamtab


In my opinion, those that require revenge are of a similar breed as those who commit these crimes in the first place. I think society, as a whole, would become much more tolerant and we would see less and less of these types of crimes if we revamped our entire justice system.

reply to post by TinkerHausthe


HA I can't believe I have to share oxygen with people like you. Just wait till someone you care about is murdered then you get to watch them on a tv show whine about prison and how it isn't helping them get better. Honestly our prisons in the U.S. are a joke. YES YES YES I do think we should take a low life murder outside in public display shoot and shoot them no waiting but the evidence has to be over whelming and i would go as far to say castration hell complete removal of the reproductive organs of a sex offender. I think people like you forget that not everybody is worth saving. Yeah you can call me crazy but just remember i'm the one who fights for your freedom and protects the streets

I have given a lot of thought to this subject over the past several months.

I have come down to two primary reasons to abolish the death penalty.

1) There is no "OOPS" after an execution. If, by any circumstance, a person is wrongfully convicted you don't get a do-over.

2) There is no punishment in death. If a person commits a crime whose penalty would warrent the death penalty, they would be far less comfortable in a cell than in a grave.

One other aspect of this in Alabama. Those sentenced to death row are "given" automatic appeals which tend to cost thousands of dollars. It has been shown that it costs less to keep a man locked up than to execute him.

If a person is sentenced to, say life and a day, they have to mount and pay for their own appeals.

I think this is much more fair for all concerned, and justice is still served.

reply to post by synapse5760


You fight for my freedom and protect the streets? In what capacity?

Funny how you result to personal attacks and assumptions about my situation to defend your statements. You don't know anything about me, but you assume you do. Someone with such obvious faults in logic has no place offering input on how criminals should be dealt with.

I hope to God you don't say you're in law enforcement, "protecting" the streets. You have a horrible character to be given a gun and badge.

I think the issue here is that you see the effect of the death penalty on the prisoner while many see the effect it has on society. We can become a more tolerant and just society by eliminating the ones that are intolerant and unwilling to follow the rules, repeatedly unwilling to follow the rules. There are some who are unable to be rehabilitated and dont want to be rehabilitated. In their case, execute them. You cannot save everyone. Criminals make their own choices fully knowing the consequences. What we can do is save society from people like this by simply eliminating them from society.

Think of society, not the criminals. Criminals are enprisoned to keep them away from us, not to teach them a lesson. If they learn a lesson and stop commiting crimes then great. But many wont, many wont want to and history has shown us that many do not stop commiting crimes.

reply to post by doctornamtab


Who is next after repeat offenders? I know anyone with more than three trafic/motoring convictions and then its got to be stupid people, i mean society would be soo much better without bad drivers and thicko's.While you'r at it how about people who like Jazz yer they gotta go.

From a previous post of mine:

Originally posted by Dreamwatcher
You want to know want some cold hard facts about capital punishment:

Since 1973, over 130 people have been released from death row with evidence of their innocence. (Staff Report, House Judiciary Subcommittee on Civil & Constitutional Rights, Oct. 1993, with updates from DPIC).

That report came out in 1993 with a total of 226 executions since 1976.

Since 1975 there have been 1267 executions through Sept. 14 ,2011

From 1973-1999, there was an average of 3.1 exonerations per year. From 2000-2007, there has been an average of 5 exonerations per year.

Those are just the ones we caught, how many more have been executed while being innocent of the crime?

Do you truly believe that our justice system can be charged with determining weather somebody lives or dies?

Link to Report

There are some very interesting facts in that report.

Originally posted by marvinthemartian
reply to post by doctornamtab

 

Who is next after repeat offenders? I know anyone with more than three trafic/motoring convictions and then its got to be stupid people, i mean society would be soo much better without bad drivers and thicko's.While you'r at it how about people who like Jazz yer they gotta go.

Ummm no one is next after repeat offenders. And its not just repeat offenders its repeat offenders who have no willingness to become a part of legitimate society. Sooooooo stop putting words in my mouth and read the posts before you comment. Thanks

reply to post by doctornamtab


I did read the thread.
I am not putting words in your mouth,i am simply expanding upon your train of thought with the same logic you are useing.
Ok we can leave the stupid people alone but bad drivers and Jazz fans are just blatently refusing to join in and be usefull members of society.

Originally posted by marvinthemartian
reply to post by doctornamtab

 

I did read the thread.
I am not putting words in your mouth,i am simply expanding upon your train of thought with the same logic you are useing.
Ok we can leave the stupid people alone but bad drivers and Jazz fans are just blatently refusing to join in and be usefull members of society.

edit on 5-10-2011 by marvinthemartian because: dyslexic, my brain is quicker than my typing

Well your logical train of thought is taking my words to illogical places. If you're going to be logical you have to stay on the train and not jump off when you see shiny things on the side of the tracks

Originally posted by doctornamtab
We can become a more tolerant and just society by eliminating the ones that are intolerant and unwilling to follow the rules, repeatedly unwilling to follow the rules.

At first glance this seems reasonable.

I tell you the death penalty has an effect on society as a whole. That effect is evidenced in this thread by it's supporters.

I realize some people are just bad. I'm not asking anyone to forgive them. I'm definitely not recommending they be set free. I'm saying first and foremost that there is NO WAY to be 100% positive that innocent people are not slipping through the crack. You cannot justify the death of one innocent by saying they are rare instances. One innocent person dies and we are all murderers, as has been mentioned. You have innocent blood on your hands and so do I.

Beyond this there is a moral problem. One of the first steps to becoming a peaceful, equal society is stopping this ancient and barbaric practice of murdering our criminals.

If you want to argue about a drain on the tax system let's first talk about the millions of people who are incarcerated for debt, incarcerated for minor offenses that I'm not allowed to mention here, incarcerated for losing their job and being unable to pay child support... Let's talk about taking the prison system out of the control of private corporations so that we're not paying up the wazoo for something the government could manage for much less. Compared to all this the cost to jail the 3242 people who are on death row is a drop in the bucket.

I know there is no provable causation, but it seems to me like the USA's high crime rates are directly related to our harsh and inhumane justice system.

This is a tough matter.

We either spend billions keeping sick men locked away for the rest of their lives, or get rid of them right then and there.

But I've got a compromise. We should only give the death sentence when there is 100% decisive evidence proving the defendant is pure and simply guilty. For example, video/forensic evidence.

the death penalty is worthless and serves no purpous. Most convicted die before they can make it to their execution date anyway and those that do make it cost the tax payers more money.

reply to post by TinkerHaus


I agree, that the death penalty is not humaine. I believe that no man has the right to take a life. Wether it's 'government' or criminal.

Most people who commit murder, or kill someone is either.

- mentally unstable
- do it in an act of rage, where they loose complete self control
- by an accident
- mentally ill
- act of desparation

What do all these people have in common? They at that point (when killing a person) have no value for the reprocussions for there actions. Meaning they at that point don't even think about getting caught, punished or even sentenced to death. So it does not strike them with fear, that when they kill someone they could get the chair.

Therefor to me the death sentence has no value. People will realise to late of what they did, and can't turn back the clock to undo it. Should they be punished? Hell yeah, but not by death sentence. Alltho family/friends of the victim always feel that death is the best option, it's really not. That's just the emotions playing tricks on us.

I know people that can actually 'forgive' a person that killed a loved one. That to me is amaizing! Why are doctors not getting the chair when they kill a person to the cause of there 'error'? What is the difference?
Eventho you killed someone by accident, 80% of the time you do time, or worse.

reply to post by synapse5760


I have to agree. In the old days if you killed someone and it was proven you were publicly executed be it by fireing squad, beheading or hanging. There was no waiting and appealing. If there is enough evidence to prove beyond the shadow of a doubt you committed murder then ur sentence is carried out soon after. For those that commit "lesser" crimes we need to go back to the old prision systems where they make prison miserable. You wake up every morning at 4am. work all day rain or shine then return to your cell in the evening eat shower and go to bed to get up and do it all over agian. That would save the taxpayers money on TVs and radios and snacks and such that we have to pay for because they have too much leisu're time on their hands.

Now I know that people are going to say what about those that are innocent. let me say this. Our prisons are full of innocent men. all inmates claim they are innocent of their crimes. Those who are actually innocent shouldnt have put themselves in a position to even be considered guilty.

I am not a hater of prisoners in the least. My theory is simple make prison a bad place to be and you will not have so many repeat offenders. Many get out and go right back in because life is easier in there. I know a guy who is 57 years old and has spent the better part of 45 years in and out of prison. I asked him onetime why he kept going back. His answer was "because it is easier in there. I have a place to stay food to eat free medical care everything is provided to me and I dont have to worrie about anything." he finnally got his wish he is in for a life sentence now which is exatly what he wanted. This is why I say make prison a bad place to be. That way people wont want to go back