UK Members.. How Would You Vote In a EU Referendum and Why?

I would vote against it, it is an elitists wet dream and is utterly pointless. Sure being a member of a super state like the European Union would make us more capable of going toe to toe with bigger, rapidly expanding countries like China or India...but who cares about that? As long as we have the capability to take care of British people and maintain a good standard of living who cares how much power whether economic or military we have on the international stage? We will always have strong trading partners regardless, its not as if European countries will simply stop trading with us... So no, we are a small island that should be humble, look after British people and stop all this nonsense.

As others have said, we should limit our involvement with the EU along the lines of Norway, ie, have freedom of trade and travel, but that's it.

After all, that is what we voted for when we were last asked back in the 70's! Since then, the EU has morphed beyond reason and we have never had a say.

If I/We can get our Democratic reform thing off the ground that some of us have started, then one of our key tenets will be to re-evaluate the UK's continued membership of this quasi-Soviet nonsense.

We didn't fight multiple wars against European powers trying to subvert us into their realm going back 1,000 years, only to sign it away when asked nicely. This whole United Europe concept has only ever been mooted by dictators such as Napoleon or Hitler, who we in the UK spent a lot of treasure and blood fighting against.

It is no coincidence that the biggest proponents of further integration and biggest beneficiaries are France and Germany, the two very same nations that have tried to "unite" Europe previously through war. In fact, the UK sided with one or the other against the third to prevent this, but now those two have teamed up, we gave in.

What the EU could have been and what it actually is are two very different things.

Personally I believe that the time has come for us to go our seperate ways.
I feel no dislike for continental Europeans, well....there is always an exception - can't just forget and ignore a thousand years of Anglo - French enmity overnight....but neither do I feel any particular fondness for them.

There are however nations who we will always have a blood kinship with and whom have always been loyal and steadfast allies of ours.

The EU is possibly one of the most corrupt and wasteful institutions in the world and cronyism is endemic.

In addition it appears to have a decidedly anti-English and anti-UK bias.
I can honestly say that off the top of my head I can't recall a single decree, edict or law that has preserved or protected British interests, in fact everything seems to be forcing the UK to action of enforce something that the vast majority of British people do not want.

That this is possible is due to the treasonous transfer of UK sovereignty to the EU which all Prime Ministers from Heath onwards and The Queen have been guilty of and complicit in allowing.

The EU obtains a fortune from the UK, very little of which is invested back into the UK.
I have travelled all over Europe and it is very common to see all sorts of things which have been built, supported, financed etc by the EU, this includes even the more wealthier nations.
On only a small handful of occassions have I noticed something similair in Scotland, Wales and Northern Ireland and never in England.

British trawler fleets lie tied up on the keyside whilst Dutch, Spanish and French fleets fish what used to be 'our' waters.

All this is possible despite the British people never agreeing to be a part of any such organisation.
In 1973 we voted to join a Trade Organisation not some European Super State.

We must demand our right to determine who governs us.

But it is imperative that a open and honest discussion precedes any referendum and people consider all viewpoints before voting.

Unfortunately I don't think it will happen.
Cameron knows what's best for us.

.

Originally posted by thoughtsfull
I would vote "no" to the Union, nor do I feel we should be tied at the hip to other nations like the US.

The EU is going to try to be a global power and will in time be vying for the position of top dog.. We (Britain that is) have been caught up in those game since the time of Constantine the Great and to be honest it's about time we really made an effort to keep out of those games and sort ourselves out.

I have a hope there is still time/space to carry on the task of building the Commonwealth into something special and since it is made up of the worlds poorest nations I think it about time we use our skills and capabilities to lift those nations out of the poverty trap they are in.

Given that we would get valuable industry and skills in return as well as decent trading partners I honestly do not see the need to continue to rape them of there resources.. lets be an ethical nation for a change.

I think this would certainly be a task that would not only keep the nation busy, but also a task we could be really proud of.. which is something I see lacking in todays society.

edit on 5/10/11 by thoughtsfull because: (no reason given)

If only mate...

THAT is something we could all get behind I think, and in terms of population a very powerful entity indeed with the influence to make changes on a global scale.

reply to post by Freeborn

With that in mind I would have to question the legality of subsequent eu treaties as the politicos did not have our mandate to sign anything.

To me that makes our involvement null invoid.

reply to post by EvanB

Well at present ,it may seem like a good idea to distance ourselves from the Eu as quickly as possible.
Although we do not rely on the Euro, the fallout from any devaluation/collapse of that currency will surely reverberate throughout other areas of Euro joint venture,particularly trade and manufacturing.
As a nation with our own currency,we would,to a certain degree,be outwith the monetary issues that such a collapse may bring,but as a nation that has had its manufacturing base destroyed by succesive governments,we have a distinct lack of "hard" goods with which to trade to nations outwith the Euro zone,i.e if the world's most succesful manufacturing nation (Germany) were to slip back due to monetary devaluation,a Britain with a strong manufacturing industry would be in a prime position to fill the gap.unfortunately emergant economies built on manufacture such as China will be quick to jump in.

In conclussion,as we are,I really do not think that leaving the EU would be of any great benefit to us,at least in the short term.

reply to post by EvanB


Apologies, my mistake, the referendum was held in 1975 and not in 1973. We entered the EEC in 1973 and the referendum of '75 was about continued membership.

en.wikipedia.org...

The EEC was a Trade Organisation and there was no suggestion of full European integration and the EU Super State at the time.

The fact that the EU can overturn laws passed by both Houses Of Parliament means that the EU has sovereignty over the UK.
Those who have knowingly signed over such powers to the EU, including The Queen, are guilty of treason.

We, the people, should demand our right of self-determination over who governs us.

reply to post by EvanB


I've not read the thread yet, so apologies if it's been said already.

But, i have to say Evan i'm virtually of the same opinion you are, for all the very valid reasons you gave, but with a small nagging caveat.

Do we feel that way, and do most others who feel that way because of historical nationalistic conditioning?

Colloquialism / nationalism is fine and it gives us an identity and standard we can rally and aspire to during life.

But something nags at me..the world is shrinking.

It's no longer the days of empire where romantic notions of cavalry charges, true British spirit and courage and honourable battles for king/queen and country particularly apply any more.

The internet has pretty much ended all of the mystique and ignorance of foreigners single handedly. Simply, fast and affordable world travel did the rest.

The question is, do we want to remain an isolated community, selfishly protecting our own backsides and call ourselves British, or do we want to look at ourselves as members primarily as members of the human species and work and politic towards a unified species, not just an economic and political union of Europe?

That's my nagging doubt...look backwards or look forwards.

I still don't know.

reply to post by spikey

It's no longer the days of empire where romantic notions of cavalry charges, true British spirit and courage and honourable battles for king/queen and country particularly apply any more

Bollocks to past glories and all that nonsense.

Of course I take a bit of pride in what once was and I recognise and acknowledge it's place in our culture and heritage.

But it's about moving forward and being proud of and taking pride in what we can build today and tomorrow.
Yes, the world is getting smaller but we have to accept responsiiblity for the here and now and put our own house in order before we do anything else.

i would vote no for many of the reasons already stated by other members on this thread.

the main ones being the cost and the fact they can make our laws and also the fact they did it all without asking any of us in the first place, which will instantly make me against it regardless of what it is.

if you have to force people to be a part of something then it cannot be good for the people and it proves they think we would not accept it in the first place, which proves they know it is not good for the people, therefore their only option is to not give us a choice.

and even though there is talk about referndums from time to time i am convinced they will never give us that choice, because they know currently we do not want it, they will wait for the next generations to accept it then maybe we will get a referendum when they are confident the answer will be in favour of it.

reply to post by nake13


I cant help but think that the 40 million a day we plough into the eu would be better spent investing in our infrastructure and developing our high end manufacturing base. Also we should become more competitive with not being tied in eu red tape. We should be as business friendly as we can, making our own rules and making UK PLC brand synomynous with excellence..

reply to post by Freeborn


Sorry if this is off topic (and it probably is) but regarding what you said here:

I feel no dislike for continental Europeans, well....there is always an exception - can't just forget and ignore a thousand years of Anglo - French enmity overnight....but neither do I feel any particular fondness for them.

A number of years ago, i felt similar dispassionate feelings towards the French.

Before my sons were born, i was into bikes. I loved getting on and just going..you know?

Took a trip with my Mrs on the back through the Chunnel, on a baccy run and realised what a berk i'd been not filling the tank up before i'd left the UK...no problem, i had plastic will travel, or so i thought.

Was running on fumes, as we entered the tiny French farming village of whatever name it was and was hopelessly lost, running out of juice and didn't hold out much hope of finding a petrol station.

Chanced upon a young French guy and his girlfriend on a bike outside a small country house, and tried in my best broken high school french to ask where the nearest petrol station was, pointing to the tank and making cut throat gestures as i did! He got the message, beckoned us to follow him and roared off down the lane.

Took us to the station, we said Merci! and they set off...anyway, the station was an automated one, and while it took plastic, it didn't like mine! The bloke came back, stuck his card in the pump CC slot and i filled up, he wouldn't take a penny off me, despite me trying to pay him with pounds.

I've never forgotten that.

Long story short...don't judge people of any nationality before you've actually met a few them. I did..and i was wrong.

Good and bad are everywhere mate...i mean, do you think all of us are great?

OUT. Now.

We want to do this... we must ask permission of the EU. We want to do that... we must ask permission of the EU...

For God's sake, it's pathetic. How the mighty have fallen... what happened to our fighting spirit?

"oh but we need the European trade!!!" "oh but we need the European labour!!!"

We are British. We once held the world in our hands. We can look after ourselves.

Yes I would vote in it and I would vote no.


We don't need to be in it to trade with Europe and the negatives far outweigh the positives.

reply to post by spikey


Of course there are good and bad everywhere, but it's impossible to forget the history between the two nations.

Just consider De Gaulle's complete dislike and mistrust of us Brits and how he actively strove to oppose us at every opportunity after the war despite how we harboured him and his few supporters and armed them and handed France to him on a plate.

Speak to a Frenchman and I dare say he'll be able to give numerous reasons for his arrogant, supercillious attitude and his dislike of all things English.

The distrust between the two nations goes back about a thousand years or so.

ETA.
I have travelled quite extensively in Europe and met many good people of many varied nationalities.
And in my experiences the French sterotype is probably the one which is most accurate.

reply to post by FOXMULDER147


It's the 'looking back' thing again though mate isn't it?

Ok, let's put it this way...we want to do this - we have to ask the EU, we want to do that - we have to ask the EU...what about if you want to build an extension on your gaff, you can go right ahead and build it can you mate?

No, you gotta go an ask some arsewipe in the council for his holier than thou permission.

Want to protest, or march on an issue you feel strongly about...go right ahead eh?

Wait a minute...nope, gotta ask permission from the British government for that, via the police...get yourself a permit, then they'll tell you when where and how many can march.

It's the same thing here as it is there...too many arsewipes trying to make life more difficult than it need be. Pencil necks are bastards whther they come from Britain or any continental European country.

What you're on about is individual rights of freedom, you won't get that here in the UK to any greater extent than you would from any oter EU country...probably less in fact.

I love my country, and i abso -effing -luely HATE the idea of any feck exploiting my countrymen, but we have to face up to the fact sometime, that wrapping a Union Jack around some no neck, snivelling git still makes them a no neck snivelling git, but just one using patriotism to hide precisely what a no no neck snivelling git he or she really is!

There is a bigger picture.

One of unity. Not just puking, corrupt EU unity, but species wide unity..and sometimes we step in crap, to get to where we want to go. The EU might be that pile of crap, but is part of the journey.

Originally posted by spikey
what about if you want to build an extension on your gaff, you can go right ahead and build it can you mate?

No, you gotta go an ask some arsewipe in the council for his holier than thou permission.

Want to protest, or march on an issue you feel strongly about...go right ahead eh?

Wait a minute...nope, gotta ask permission from the British government for that, via the police...get yourself a permit, then they'll tell you when where and how many can march.

It's the same thing here as it is there...too many arsewipes trying to make life more difficult than it need be. Pencil necks are bastards whther they come from Britain or any continental European country.

Yeah that's British decisions being made by British officials.... you should be able to rule, run and police your own country without having to go and ask a board/commission in another country.

It's just ridiculous.

but just one using patriotism to hide precisely what a no no neck snivelling git he or she really is!

There is a bigger picture.

One of unity. Not just puking, corrupt EU unity, but species wide unity..and sometimes we step in crap, to get to where we want to go. The EU might be that pile of crap, but is part of the journey.

I am one of the least patriotic people... really I am, I don't not want to join because I love my country and I am some flag waving moron.... I don't want to join because we can govern ourselves.
Too much red tape and bureaucracy is a bad thing, and you get that in spades from Europe.

I am a proper lefty who sees the world as my back garden and every nation and every people as my neighbour..... yeah I know, sad isn't it.... but I still think everyone should have a country.... have a language, have a culture.


And I know that there's probably some hypocrisy in there somewhere.... but then again, I'm a mixed bag.

What can i say.

reply to post by Freeborn


Yeah, it does...but why?

Indoctrination and centuries of conditioning against an 'enemy' will instil that intense dislike and distrust i suppose, couple that with the fact they are a short hop across the channel and we could literally see them 'break wind in our general direction' on a clear day. and it builds many barriers and distrust.

De Gaulle was a wanker, and was not, i feel representative of the ordinary French people..people like you and i are not the same as, oh i don't know..let's just say the majority of British politicians!

We're the people. Not in some kind of beatnik, 1950's communist kind of way, but in the stalwart 1940's keep your chin up when the Germans were bombing us kind of way.

Not all Germans were NAZIs and not all French were onion munching surrender monkeys either.

We have to remember that most of the fault of division among the whole human race, lays squarely at the feet of the historical 'great and good' (yeah, right!) of this world, not the great ordinary people.

De Gaulle being a case in point.

I'm not certain about this, but i so feel, clawing away somewhere at the back of my mind, that it's time to let go of our glorious history based on empire and the bloodshed and misery expended to attain that glory, and instead bask in a leadership role in a new empire? An empire based on peace and prosperity of the people, not particularly economic prosperity, but advancement in all directions.

Wouldn't you want Great Britain to be respected in such a venture? To be the innovator, the standard bearer?

The one to imitate?

Or shall we become the pariah...the derided nation, left by the sidelines, acknowledged politely, but laughed at behind our backs instead?

I think i would prefer our country to set the standard, to be a respected voice that doesn't have to shout from the sidelines to be heard or taken seriously, instead of the alternative.

Wouldn't you want Great Britain to be respected n such a venture? To be the innovator, the standard bearer? The one to imitate? Or shall we become the pariah...the derided nation, left by the sidelines, acknowledged politely, but laughed at behind our backs instead? I think i would prefer our country to set the standard, to be a respected voice that doesn't have to shout from the sidelines to be heard or taken seriously, instead of the alternative

reply to post by spikey

To set the standard we have to be in control of our own destiny and not have others who are so far apart from in terms of culture and language doing it for us.

I would vote no. The greater the power the more the control.

We are not just Americans, Europeans, Asians etc we are all human beings. Each person is unique. The experience is someone/some power seeks to control our lives. All people/souls are important. I am not against government, only that freedom of thought is is done in a just,humane and democratic way.

How can we consider ourselves to be good people when others are dying of hunger. Many countries throw food away to maintain higher prices or give excuses it is too expensive to transport. If there were to be a one world order one day I hope that it would be for a famine free free world, a world of peace and understanding.

Has the EU accounts ever been audited to satisfaction or the Federal bank for that matter ever been audited?

Countries themselves have no money, only that which tax payers give them. If there was a new world order how I wish I could be president !!! I would truly represent the world to enter a new dimension of equality, love and understanding where all people have an acceptance. Your world needs me!!! It also needs You!!