Lisa Irwin - Missing - One Year Later

Originally posted by Dav1d

The FBI were there from the very beginning they have NEVER left...

I don't remember saying the FBI left, could be me though. I was more questioning when they actually started verses when you or I know they started on the case.

And for those who would suggest we don't know what KCPD thinks, remember how quick KCPD was to correct the parents, about the boys NOT being schedule for an interview this week... 

I remember, Michelle pointed out it was the FBI asking for more time, not the local Police. If the media asked the local police about the interviews, and they were being told nothing by the FBI or the lawyers, would it not make sense the police did not know the interviews were going to take place? This is the third time I asked or pointed it out.

Another point, is the Amber Alert for Lisa was NOT activated until 7:15 am on the forth, but the FBI was there the morning of the fourth waking people up... Before the Amber Alert was activated, which would have alerted CARD and set the FBI in motion, there would have been a period where the fBI decided if their involment was justified, or not. That takes time, and more time to fly a team in, yet the FBI was there, knocking on doors and waking people up that morning.. 

Good observation. So one leads me to think about this even more now. If the FBI were onsite and running the show, even before the amber alert was put out, then this would explain some inconsistencies. Local police need to put on a show to make people think they can protect and serve. If the local police are not *really* in charge of this case, and the FBI are...hrrrmmmmm.....

I have to think of this more as there are many reasons coming to mind about the actions of all sides once the FBI was involved.

IWOH

Originally posted by silo13
reply to post by Dav1d

 

We have a special forensics expert going up against a six and an eight year old, and judging by the lack of an arrest unable to break a six or an eight year old..

Huh? 'Unable to 'break' a six/eight year old?

What are you going on about now?

'Judging by the lack of an arrest?' They haven't even interviewed them yet?

*Walks out shaking my head*... And you think I'm the one who's biased? Wow...

peace

Did you even bother to read the links I provided?

*Walks out shaking my head*... And you think I'm the one who's biased? Wow.

You claim to have some special insight into my mind?
Yes I have acknowledged that I believe many have chosen sides in this case by acting as if they are blind to anything that conflicts with their opinion. I am sorry you feel that I have characterize you, Silo13 as biased, that has never been my intention, as this thread is NOT about you! I apologize. I believe your post(s) speaks loudly enough on that subject. Certainly within this thread are examples where you have disagreed with another members view, without attempting to make it about that member.

Or are you suggesting that my view; that the actions of the KCPD, have tended to cause people to take sides, is incorrect? That the vast majority here are waiting for the results of a trial, before deciding guilt or innocents? Take for example Cptn. Steve Young, tactic of calling a news conference to announce that KCPD would not be releasing details about an ongoing investigation, and oh by the way did you know the family is NOT working with the police anymore, had no effect on the public's perception of guilt or innocents? That when the KCPD denied that there was an interview scheduled for this week (Nov 8), after the family announced that there was one scheduled (Nov 7), that the effect was to once again cast suspicion upon the family? Or are you suggesting that the KCPD could NOT be expected to foresee these results?

Originally posted by Michelle129th

Originally posted by schmae
Or maybe they are hoping that the boys have heard something SINCE then in the home that might give them some idea. Poor boys. I feel so bad for them. I hope they are as content and still in this tornado as possible. I hope they get to play with their friends and just climb a tree and be boys !

AHA, that's a good thought too...maybe overheard the parents talking about it or whatever. And I agree that those poor boys are as much victim as anyone in this case. I wonder what they go through at school...

Michelle

I think you are on to something. With the specialist onsite for the interviews, maybe the boys might remember something that happened that night. I remember a forensics show on the television where the boy said a "monster dressed in green" opened his door and then shut it. It turned out that the intruder wore a green jump suit.

Maybe by the interviews, they can find out how the boys view what happened that night and maybe get a lead.

I agree with you. Happy Birthday Lisa.

IWOH

I did want to state something, I think it should be stated as some of my replies might seem harsh.

Dav1d, I see your point on many of the issues and wanted you to know that I am not trying to come at you in an attacking stance. I am just trying to bring up "what if's" as the way I see them as this thread has grown so much and the case has lasted a long time. I do apologize if it looked like I was attacking you in anyway. I thought about this and wanted to make sure I said it because I am not the best at expressing my views.

IWOH

reply to post by IwasOnceHappy


I ditto Iwasoncehappy. I know police stations are full of regular folks. For every regular 100 people, theres' many probably 10 or 20 total jerks. So that 's true in police stations too. But what I cannot figure out of your posts, David, is are you accusing the police of ineptitude or something worse , like intentionally destroying overlooking evidence to frame mom. Like they want to save their own image so they pin it on mom no matter what? Or some of your posts even look like the police may be involved in something even bigger or worse than that?
But also another good point brought up this morning is is the FBI calling all shots and at this point the KCPD is merely along for the ride and makes no decisions on their own.?

I'm not down on anyone's opinion. We're just having a long ongoing adult conversation/discussion. I've even been thinking about Gabby's theory on a big international child abudction ring. If that is the case, that type of thing is funded by HUGE money and Lisa would , no doubt, never be found . It would easily explain why no trace of anything was left, if that is the case.

I just had a really sad thought! This global recession/ depression has been causing states and cities to cut back on everything . Street lights are going dark, garbage pickups are once instead of twice weekly. Fire departments are charging people for putting out fires, etc etc. You guys on ATS know what's been going on. What if this police department has had to make huge cuts and the kind of thing they normally would do they are unable to do because of budget cuts? Tracking dogs, specialists, over time, etc etc? I would love to think cops would work overtime for free at least somewhat in this type of case, but who knows? I think when I get home from work I will google KCPD budget cuts and see if anything shockign has been ELIMINATED in the past year or two. What are everyone's thoughts on this? Anyone who is home all day and bored could certainly google it as well.
That would be a travesty if I ever saw one though Just thinking out loud.

Originally posted by IwasOnceHappy

I don't remember saying the FBI left, could be me though. I was more questioning when they actually started verses when you or I know they started on the case.

I did not suggest that you stated the FBI left, I was simply pointing out that they have been involved from day one. And I at least have been aware of that involvement. I've posted here about that involvement.

I remember, Michelle pointed out it was the FBI asking for more time, not the local Police. If the media asked the local police about the interviews, and they were being told nothing by the FBI or the lawyers, would it not make sense the police did not know the interviews were going to take place? This is the third time I asked or pointed it out.

Confusion!?! It is the KCPD, that has created an issue, about their ability to question the boys, are you suggesting that in actuality the KCPD cared so little about questioning the boys they couldn't be bother to check with the FBI? Or perhaps you're suggesting that the KCPD is so poorly organized that they lacked the ability to keep updated on the FBI status?!? To my mind it's rather simple the KCPD created the issue, the KCPD claimed the need, and for whatever reason one dreams up were at best either so out of the loop, that less than 48 hours before the event occurred had no knowledge of it, (doesn't that imply something about the KCPD) after being put on notice of it; or once again attempted to spin the truth? At best it is an example of turning a blind eye to things you don't perceive as real... If the KCPD can't validate a meeting that they request, how will they every find Lisa? By that logic the kidnappers of Lisa could have called into the tip line, saying we have Lisa she is at 3637 North South street, come and get her, and they would be dismissed because KCPD KNOWS Lisa is dead! Just as the family's statement was dismissed that the boys would be interview this week!!! Think about it! How MUCH EFFORT does it take to check, rather than assume?

Good observation. So one leads me to think about this even more now. If the FBI were onsite and running the show, even before the amber alert was put out, then this would explain some inconsistencies. Local police need to put on a show to make people think they can protect and serve. If the local police are not *really* in charge of this case, and the FBI are...hrrrmmmmm.....

Once again the FBI role here is one of support, not command. Nor is there any hint in all the conference conducted by KCPD that the KCPD is not in sole charge.

Originally posted by Dav1d

I remember, Michelle pointed out it was the FBI asking for more time, not the local Police. If the media asked the local police about the interviews, and they were being told nothing by the FBI or the lawyers, would it not make sense the police did not know the interviews were going to take place? This is the third time I asked or pointed it out.

Confusion!?! It is the KCPD, that has created an issue, about their ability to question the boys, are you suggesting that in actuality the KCPD cared so little about questioning the boys they couldn't be bother to check with the FBI? Or perhaps you're suggesting that the KCPD is so poorly organized that they lacked the ability to keep updated on the FBI status?!? To my mind it's rather simple the KCPD created the issue, the KCPD claimed the need, and for whatever reason one dreams up were at best either so out of the loop, that less than 48 hours before the event occurred had no knowledge of it, (doesn't that imply something about the KCPD) after being put on notice of it; or once again attempted to spin the truth? At best it is an example of turning a blind eye to things you don't perceive as real... If the KCPD can't validate a meeting that they request, how will they every find Lisa? By that logic the kidnappers of Lisa could have called into the tip line, saying we have Lisa she is at 3637 North South street, come and get her, and they would be dismissed because KCPD KNOWS Lisa is dead! Just as the family's statement was dismissed that the boys would be interview this
week!!! Think about it! How MUCH EFFORT does it take to check, rather than assume?

Michelle pointed out that the lawyers said the kids could be interviewed again, but the FBI delayed it. How do you know the police did not check with the FBI? Could the FBI have told the police the specialist was not ready and then at the last minute change and say they were ready? What this implies at this point, regarding the interviews, is maybe the FBI did not talk to the local police? I am not saying that the police are all the greatest, but when looking at this question, if it included the FBI, I could see the FBI saying they were going to do it their way. Again, since we are only observers, we can't know what was said or done behind the camera.

Originally posted by Dav1d


Once again the FBI role here is one of support, not command. Nor is there any hint in all the conference conducted by KCPD that the KCPD is not in sole charge.

I could agree that the FBI is here for support, but if they are involved, I could see them where they would want to be the leaders behind the scenes. If they do not find baby Lisa, or any leads or any arrests, the FBI could just say, "oh, the Local police is in charge of the case".

reply to post by Michelle129th

if kids did say "I saw mom do it..." I don't know if that could constitute immediate arrest of the mom or if t would still require more evidence.

Would you arrest a parent based solely on the testimony of their son and step-son who are respectively 6 and 8 years old?

Enough said.

Beyond that - If you don't take a stand against sensationalism straight across the board? The impression you give ATS is your entertaining a dalliance when picking and choosing who's sensationalism you'll tolerate and who's you will not. The lack of any evidence that you're standing against such an abhorrent comment referencing the police 'breaking' a child? This is all the cause needed to 'lump you in with' others who act in similar fashion.

Then again maybe you agree with David's belief the police failed to 'BREAK' those little boys? Who knows? We readers surely don't.

What a heartbreaking shame we're talking about a real little girl, Lisa. and her missing, her real family and the real police who're trying to solve such a heartbreaking situation instead of just a paper and pen dilemma.

peace

Originally posted by IwasOnceHappy
I did want to state something, I think it should be stated as some of my replies might seem harsh.

Dav1d, I see your point on many of the issues and wanted you to know that I am not trying to come at you in an attacking stance. I am just trying to bring up "what if's" as the way I see them as this thread has grown so much and the case has lasted a long time. I do apologize if it looked like I was attacking you in anyway. I thought about this and wanted to make sure I said it because I am not the best at expressing my views.

IWOH

Originally posted by schmae
reply to post by IwasOnceHappy

 

I ditto Iwasoncehappy. I know police stations are full of regular folks. For every regular 100 people, theres' many probably 10 or 20 total jerks. So that 's true in police stations too. But what I cannot figure out of your posts, David, is are you accusing the police of ineptitude or something worse , like intentionally destroying overlooking evidence to frame mom. Like they want to save their own image so they pin it on mom no matter what? Or some of your posts even look like the police may be involved in something even bigger or worse than that?
But also another good point brought up this morning is is the FBI calling all shots and at this point the KCPD is merely along for the ride and makes no decisions on their own.?

I'm not down on anyone's opinion. We're just having a long ongoing adult conversation/discussion. I've even been thinking about Gabby's theory on a big international child abudction ring. If that is the case, that type of thing is funded by HUGE money and Lisa would , no doubt, never be found . It would easily explain why no trace of anything was left, if that is the case.

For the record I don't see/perceive either of you attacking me, but rather we are attempting to have an adult conversation/discussion where each of us are attempting to express different point of views. I don't perceive either of you attempting to tell me what I think, feel, or know. And I hope I'm not perceived as attempting to put words in your mouth, only to laugh at them. Nor that I believe I know what you think, feel, or believe. I apologize if I am seen in that light. Too often one falls into the trap of reading what we want to hear in this medium, rather than reading what is actually written.

It is my opinion that at a miminum the KCPD has demonstrated ineptitude! Five weeks demonstrates ineptitude, if not something more. It is a crime to lie to the police, it should be everybit as much of a crime, for the police to lie to the public! The police should be held to a higher standard, than just any old joe, in my opinion. After all the police get to carry weapons, and use lethal force, something the average joe doesn't get to do!

We, as a country have claimed to have moved beyond the lynch mob mentality, yet by their actions, their words, KCPD has ferment hatred, in my opinion. By their words, and their lack of words, they have effectively vilify this family. Just because the news media demands explanations doesn't mean they have a right to one. But this is a game, in my opinion for KCPD. ****If week after week the only comment from KCPD was no comment**** we would not have this circus! It is both the public comments, and private snide remarks, and innuendoes that have fed this circus, in my opinion.

I can not climb into another's head to comment on what their intentions might or might not be. However I can observe, I can feel, and I can comment on how I perceive actions. I'm seeing actions, that I perceive a need to comment on, and question. It has been five weeks, and if we are to believe one DA, we are no closer to finding Lisa, and we have no suspects... Now these words are being discounted by many, I've got to wonder how many discount them, because to accept them on face value would imply this case has been missed handled?

Originally posted by Dav1d

Originally posted by IwasOnceHappy
I did want to state something, I think it should be stated as some of my replies might seem harsh.

Dav1d, I see your point on many of the issues and wanted you to know that I am not trying to come at you in an attacking stance. I am just trying to bring up "what if's" as the way I see them as this thread has grown so much and the case has lasted a long time. I do apologize if it looked like I was attacking you in anyway. I thought about this and wanted to make sure I said it because I am not the best at expressing my views.

IWOH

Originally posted by schmae
reply to post by IwasOnceHappy

 

I ditto Iwasoncehappy. I know police stations are full of regular folks. For every regular 100 people, theres' many probably 10 or 20 total jerks. So that 's true in police stations too. But what I cannot figure out of your posts, David, is are you accusing the police of ineptitude or something worse , like intentionally destroying overlooking evidence to frame mom. Like they want to save their own image so they pin it on mom no matter what? Or some of your posts even look like the police may be involved in something even bigger or worse than that?
But also another good point brought up this morning is is the FBI calling all shots and at this point the KCPD is merely along for the ride and makes no decisions on their own.?

I'm not down on anyone's opinion. We're just having a long ongoing adult conversation/discussion. I've even been thinking about Gabby's theory on a big international child abudction ring. If that is the case, that type of thing is funded by HUGE money and Lisa would , no doubt, never be found . It would easily explain why no trace of anything was left, if that is the case.

For the record I don't see/perceive either of you attacking me, but rather we are attempting to have an adult conversation/discussion where each of us are attempting to express different point of views. I don't perceive either of you attempting to tell me what I think, feel, or know. And I hope I'm not perceived as attempting to put words in your mouth, only to laugh at them. Nor that I believe I know what you think, feel, or believe. I apologize if I am seen in that light. Too often one falls into the trap of reading what we want to hear in this medium, rather than reading what is actually written.

It is my opinion that at a miminum the KCPD has demonstrated ineptitude! Five weeks demonstrates ineptitude, if not something more. It is a crime to lie to the police, it should be everybit as much of a crime, for the police to lie to the public! The police should be held to a higher standard, than just any old joe, in my opinion. After all the police get to carry weapons, and use lethal force, something the average joe doesn't get to do!

We, as a country have claimed to have moved beyond the lynch mob mentality, yet by their actions, their words, KCPD has ferment hatred, in my opinion. By their words, and their lack of words, they have effectively vilify this family. Just because the news media demands explanations doesn't mean they have a right to one. But this is a game, in my opinion for KCPD. ****If week after week the only comment from KCPD was no comment**** we would not have this circus! It is both the public comments, and private snide remarks, and innuendoes that have fed this circus, in my opinion.

I can not climb into another's head to comment on what their intentions might or might not be. However I can observe, I can feel, and I can comment on how I perceive actions. I'm seeing actions, that I perceive a need to comment on, and question. It has been five weeks, and if we are to believe one DA, we are no closer to finding Lisa, and we have no suspects... Now these words are being discounted by many, I've got to wonder how many discount them, because to accept them on face value would imply this case has been missed handled?

****If week after week the only comment from KCPD was no comment**** we would not have this circus! It is both the public comments, and private snide remarks, and innuendoes that have fed this circus, in my opinion.

David imagine just for a minute if week after week no comment from kcpd and ADDITIONALLY week after week NO COMMENT from anyone in the irwin/bradly family , including deborah. If neither side had said anything, do you really believe we would be in this circus? I think much more circus atmosphere and suspicions cast have come from Deb's own mouth than anything KCPD did or did not say . I cannot imagine very much interest in the case at all, frankly, by outsiders like all of us if Deborah hadnt said all that she's said. If shes' been quiet as well as Law then I think there would be almost no one talking about it today at all.
How can you villify someone with silence?

Im sorry my attempts at ' QUOTING' do not work out for me ... that's Davids quote at top of thispost !



I personally was upset about the case for sure but was not nearly as INTERESTED until after her wooops I drank a LOT that night statement. So that was HER WORDS that got my attnetion, nothing the police did. I'd venture to say a LOT of other people took notice at that time as well.

OMG Oh wait i did quote that whole thing up there ^^^^^^^^ so sorry guys. I didn't mean to and I'll never attempt to use quotes again. I did not mean to do that and don't kow how to undo it ......... :| yikes

Originally posted by silo13
reply to post by Michelle129th

 

if kids did say "I saw mom do it..." I don't know if that could constitute immediate arrest of the mom or if t would still require more evidence.

Would you arrest a parent based solely on the testimony of their son and step-son who are respectively 6 and 8 years old?

Enough said.

Beyond that? If you don't take a stand against sensationalism across the board? The impression you give is you entertain a dalliance when picking and choosing who's sensationalism you'll tolerate and who's you will not.

If you don't take a stand to right a abhorrent comment referencing the police 'breaking' a child? Then yes, my opinion will 'lump you in with' the other 'lumps' if you can't find your voice and instead swallowing such tripe.

Pretty simple that.

Someday you're going to have to take a stand and stop giving the impression of being wish-washy. Why do I say that? It's obvious and not just to me. You've no problem being David's mouthpiece but I've yet to see you censor him for his outrageous claims. If you're not going to take point with him over the 'breaking of a child' by the police what will it take?

We're talking about children here - a missing little girl and her half brothers - not junior high popularity groups. Something many in this thread would do good to remember - if they ever knew it at all.

peace

edit on 11-11-2011 by silo13 because: bold

You're right I am wishy washy. As for your observation on a total stranger being here for brownie points or popularity points, I'd have to say you would need to know me far better to make that statement. I could care less on how popular I am on this site. If you look at my posting history I rarely posted until this case and only posted because this story in particular caught my attention.

I am wishy washy because I have no clue what i think about this case or the people involved. Just when I feel I "know" something...new reports come out making me doubt myself again...so sure I'll take complete responsibility for that and agree totally with you!

As for David's mouthpiece...wow you're really snarky this morning...did you have a bad sleep? I am not his mouthpiece I just reply to outright lies/misquotes I've seen in the thread. You said the boys hadn't been interviewed. I replied yes they have. How is that David's mouthpiece it has nothing to do with David? I have disagreed with David several times in the thread just as I have disagreed with you and others. Unlike you, I don't feel the need to tear apart each and every statement someone makes anymore. I'm too tired to bother all the copy pasting and quoting several different posts to insist everyone see the case the way I do.

As for whether or not I would arrest a parent based on a child's testimony alone...that was the question I asked, thanks for answering in not so kind way.

I think you're becoming nasty now that there are less people posting that took a similar stance to you in the beginning. The majority are now opening their minds to each and every possibility and obviously you're not. That's fine, I will remain wishy washy and you can remain close minded.

Have a great day.

Michelle

Originally posted by schmae
I just had a really sad thought! This global recession/ depression has been causing states and cities to cut back on everything . Street lights are going dark, garbage pickups are once instead of twice weekly. Fire departments are charging people for putting out fires, etc etc. You guys on ATS know what's been going on. What if this police department has had to make huge cuts and the kind of thing they normally would do they are unable to do because of budget cuts? Tracking dogs, specialists, over time, etc etc? I would love to think cops would work overtime for free at least somewhat in this type of case, but who knows? I think when I get home from work I will google KCPD budget cuts and see if anything shockign has been ELIMINATED in the past year or two. What are everyone's thoughts on this? Anyone who is home all day and bored could certainly google it as well.

That would be a travesty if I ever saw one though

Just thinking out loud.

The budget request of $191,343,616 represents a 5.71 percent increase from the current fiscal year budget. The bulk of the increase stems from the pay raises. But police also asked for more money to pay for $80,000 in data transmission costs for e-ticketing devices and $250,000 to cover expected overtime costs at the Major League Baseball All-Star Game in July.

The budget leaves 155 positions vacant — 75 of them law enforcement. Police asked for an additional $5 million to fill those positions, but the city in recent years typically has not funded such extra requests, known as “decision packages.”



Read more: www.kansascity.com...

Is that what you are looking for?

A video of Joe Tacopina on Good Morning america today

Missing Baby Lisa Irwin's First Birthday

The lawyer and parents were not in the room with the kids...so that's good news. Interesting how much different his take on what's going on in comparison to what we've heard through the MSM.

Michelle

reply to post by Michelle129th

You've said a mouthful but once again you've regretfully forgotten to answer the question as you've done many times in my rebuttals to your posts.

In my opinion for anyone on this thread - or outside this thread - to infer police are attempting to or failed to 'break' a child they're responsible for is unacceptable. Period. It's gross bias, sensationalist and has no business being included in reference to two little boys who might hold the key to helping find their lost sister.

I guess I'm the only one that can see that. Or the only one who has the sack to stand up and say so.

And no, I'm not being - what was you called it? 'Snarky' - only stating the obvious.

Once again - I can't even imagine using the word 'break' a child in conjunction with Deborah Bradley or Jeremy Irwin - much less in conjunction with professionals doing their best to find Lisa.

peace

reply to post by silo13


Ah Silo, I wonder if this is a 'language barrier' issue. In the US , the term break is used as in 'get them to talk'. It's usually used though for a guilty person under police interrogation to get them to BREAK as in quit pretending they don't know or will not talk. It's not at all intended like to BREAK the child as in physically break or hurt or something. Its a figure of speech, a term, that perhaps in your native language sounds worse than what an american might think of it as. Is that possible?
That being said I thougth it odd David would use the term because to 'break the boys' would imply they are with holding information and all they could with hold would be info incriminating their mom, so it's odd he'd use that term.

Sorry if you already knew what it meant. It just dawned on me that might be the issue.

Originally posted by silo13
reply to post by Michelle129th

 

if kids did say "I saw mom do it..." I don't know if that could constitute immediate arrest of the mom or if t would still require more evidence.

Would you arrest a parent based solely on the testimony of their son and step-son who are respectively 6 and 8 years old?

Enough said.

So at five weeks your firm stance is the police, have NOTHING, other than the possibility of one of their boys indicting Deborah and/or Jeremy? That is your firm non wishywashy stance this morning?

Beyond that - If you don't take a stand against sensationalism straight across the board?

So this thread's purpose was to in someway desensationalize this case? This topic?

The lack of any evidence that you're standing against such an abhorrent comment referencing the police 'breaking' a child?

Just where was this outrage when on this thread, it was suggested that one of those boys might have killed his sister? Who on this thread suggested the possibility of this occurring? Breaking is a term of art, it refers to confronting a suspect with the facts and getting a confession, an acknowledgement that "I" did it.

Then again maybe you agree with David's belief the police failed to 'BREAK' those little boys? Who knows? We readers surely don't.

So you are suggesting that the police got a confession last night, and failed to act upon it?

reply to post by schmae

That being said I thougth it odd David would use the term because to 'break the boys' would imply they are with holding information and all they could with hold would be info incriminating their mom, so it's odd he'd use that term.

Good point. I'll take it to heart. But that doesn't change the use of a negative term for the police interrogation/questioning of little children who might hold the key to Lisa's disappearance, in my opinion is grossly out of line. Especially when the police had reassured not only the family, but the public all consideration will be afforded to these children possible. And with a lawyer like Tacopina? You can bet those kids were given every consideration possible - and more. (Thank goodness!)!

Thank you for the point through. "Break' just sounds so brutal - so - well...no need to go on explaining.

peace