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Lisa Irwin - Missing - One Year Later

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posted on Nov, 8 2011 @ 09:46 AM
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reply to post by gabby2011
 


Hi Gabby
Good to see you

''Judging from the way they tried to get in the window..while cameras were allowed to film..the police actually seem like they were trying very hard to make it seem like it would be impossible to get through the window. '''

I thought the very same thing when I saw the video. The cop was trying to climb in the window SIDEWAYS like no one else would try to. A normal folk would jump in chest first and legs dangling and climb through . But the cop was trying to sit in the window sill perched and then go on through. I was hoping we only saw a SMALL portion of the police attempts to enter and not the ONLy attempt.




posted on Nov, 8 2011 @ 09:57 AM
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@jimspellmancnn jim spellman
Good morning #babylisa watchers. Getting our reports prepared for @HLNTV today. I'll tweet out an exact time a bit later.


Hopefully it won't be a full day affair again. I'll update if/when he posts an exact time

Michelle



posted on Nov, 8 2011 @ 09:59 AM
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reply to post by Michelle129th
 


It'll be 4 pm CST. Stay tuned. Seriously if this guy doesnt' come off with some actual NEWS today then I will suspect him of being a con artist.



posted on Nov, 8 2011 @ 10:20 AM
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Originally posted by schmae
reply to post by gabby2011
 


Hi Gabby
Good to see you

''Judging from the way they tried to get in the window..while cameras were allowed to film..the police actually seem like they were trying very hard to make it seem like it would be impossible to get through the window. '''

I thought the very same thing when I saw the video. The cop was trying to climb in the window SIDEWAYS like no one else would try to. A normal folk would jump in chest first and legs dangling and climb through . But the cop was trying to sit in the window sill perched and then go on through. I was hoping we only saw a SMALL portion of the police attempts to enter and not the ONLy attempt.


Thank you for admitting to seeing it go down that way....I was a little more than confused when I saw that clip..and wondered if anyone else had seen it the way I did.

If that was their only attempt at getting in the window..to procure evidence..I would be so disappointed, and inclined to think they are indeed guilty of trying to steer evidence , to suit their own agendas...whatever those agendas might be....including trying to make debbie look guilty.

Is it so illogical to think that an intruder used gloves..and never took them off..and left using the front door? Someone that knew the condition that Debbie was in?

I mean really... can police find it so hard that someone doing such a crime would be careful enough not to take off gloves and leave them behind? How stupid are they to think that someone trying to pull off a stunt like this would be that stupid?



posted on Nov, 8 2011 @ 10:21 AM
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Originally posted by schmae
reply to post by gabby2011
 


Hi Gabby
Good to see you

''Judging from the way they tried to get in the window..while cameras were allowed to film..the police actually seem like they were trying very hard to make it seem like it would be impossible to get through the window. '''

I thought the very same thing when I saw the video. The cop was trying to climb in the window SIDEWAYS like no one else would try to. A normal folk would jump in chest first and legs dangling and climb through . But the cop was trying to sit in the window sill perched and then go on through. I was hoping we only saw a SMALL portion of the police attempts to enter and not the ONLy attempt.


I also thought this of the whole charade of "re-enacting" the window scene. My first thought was the guy looked like he was the clumsiest person on earth...couldn't they have chosen a more "lithe" person? Secondly....how do we know there weren't more than one person in on this? Perhaps one holding the window and/or giving a boost? To be honest that window doesn't seem all that high off the ground. Someone used to breaking into places would easily be able to get in that window without all the noise and kerfuffel he seemed to make.

Having said that...I am not 100% convinced the window even had anything to do as an entry point. I would *think* (my opinion) that if they had to push the screen out or out of the way that an intruder would have just removed the screen altogether and thrown it on the ground or something? I don't know the exact makeup of these windows, so I don't know how they work

A lot of people also point out how on earth an intruder would be able to get back out the window with the baby...but we are told the front door was unlocked...how about just walk out the front door? Or, on the same theory as above, more than one person involved...hand the baby out the window to the 2nd person.

Those are a few things I considered when seeing the re-enactment anyhow

Michelle



posted on Nov, 8 2011 @ 10:23 AM
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Early on in the case, Kansas City Police spokesman Steve Young said he trusts that people in the community know what happened to the missing child. However, no one has come forward to produce information that is inching the police closer to finding the missing baby girl.
global.christianpost.com...


One more person coming forward to acknowledge the failure of the KCPD. Cpt. Steve Young states he believes that people within the community KNOW what happen, yet the KCPD is so, mistrusted that not so much as one person is willing to tell them what happen. One has to wonder just how many other police departments whine that they aren't handed the solution to their cases? Could it possible be that if they employed real detectives, that where actually willing to do the foot work, this case would have been solved weeks ago?

There is a time to take off the gloves, and in my opinion that is not, until you have the evidence that supports your beliefs. Where is Little Lisa? At 34 days into this case, it is clear that KCPD does know the answer to this question. There is an old saying about catching more flies with sugar than vinegar.... I believe not tipping your hand, before you have the proof is a sign of good police work.
edit on 8-11-2011 by Dav1d because: (no reason given)



posted on Nov, 8 2011 @ 10:57 AM
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I think when a child goes missing and its a case of no clues what so ever and parents have made a mistake, in either their actions prior to the abduction or in their statements. For the police and the rest of us watching this event, alarm bells begin to ring.
Take Madeleine Mccann's parents. Doctors, intelligent, beautiful people who look like loving parents. They made a mistake by being away from the children, left in an apartment to sleep, while eating a meal some distance away. They, when the public found out, were then greatly disliked by many people for doing what they did.
The police at that time were suspicious of this very fact and were intent on finding evidence to charge them with murder.
But this is the point with the police. They only have their words of the event in the 1st stages of the abduction. They are not concerned with how upsetting the questioning is for the adults, it solely the child's welfare and life that's at stake. The child is paramount in every second it is missing and they have many tactics to find the truth. And they do not care who they upset in getting that truth. That's how the police work and that is how they get results. And of course, the police all know too well that parents do kill. So evidently parents are the 1st under suspicion. They become more under suspicion when their statements don't add up. Which is exactly what we are doing. The police know how anybody can lie, they know how anybody can distort the truth. And i'm sure many many experts are looking at this case. I'm afraid it's the Irwins word against hard forensic facts or eyewitnesses or sadly a body.
Madeleine Mccann was never found, the parents continue to search and so do detectives. But again it's the Mccanns word against any hard physical facts.
This situation isn't new. it will happen again and it will happen when the best of us make a mistake. Their will hundreds of children going missing next year and the year after.
I have 3 sons, all grown now, but 2 of them have gone missing for a short time. Once when on holiday and it took me, hubby and the whole 20 security guards 3 hours to find him.
3 hours later found him in a suitcase fast asleep. But the panic as he was only 4 nearly killed me.
Other son went out to play and after 3 hours I went looking for him, no sign, phone neighbours, they went out looking for him then after another hour I was really panicking and phoned the police, I had men in cars driving round, People phoning from a mile away, then the little so and so walked in through the door covered in grass stains. He'd been playing nearby but we all missed him.
Phoning the police was the worst moment in my life and when he walked through that door I fell on my knees and howled into his tummy with my arms tight around him.
I phoned the police to say he was back but they came anyway to make sure he was home and that I hadn't lied and to ask him questions where he had been, and bless them, they told him off for not coming home earlier and upsetting mummy and daddy.
Myself personally I would be walking arm in arm with the police if my daughter went missing. I just don't understand Deborah's take on this.



posted on Nov, 8 2011 @ 11:06 AM
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reply to post by sussy
 


Curious, just how long did it take the police to accuse you of killing your son?



It is one thing to know in your head that the police are looking at you as a suspect, I. Would contend, in those first few hours, to have an officer throw a picture of your child down in front of you, order you too look at it. To tell you they know YOU KILLEd YOUR CHILD, changes how one sees the police. This was Deborah experience, in those first few critical hours.

Now you claim they don't care how the parents feel, and this is effective. I see, that we are over a month into this, there is no body, there is no arrest, and I truly question what they gain by this.


edit on 8-11-2011 by Dav1d because: (no reason given)



posted on Nov, 8 2011 @ 11:23 AM
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reply to post by Dav1d
 

I do understand what you mean David. But what would you do? How would you investigate this abduction, and it is an investigation until Lisa is found.



posted on Nov, 8 2011 @ 11:43 AM
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@jimspellmancnn jim spellman First live shot on #babylisa will be at 1:15 eastern on @HLNTV


New update on twitter

Michelle



posted on Nov, 8 2011 @ 11:54 AM
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reply to post by sussy
 





Myself personally I would be walking arm in arm with the police if my daughter went missing. I just don't understand Deborah's take on this.


You say that now... but would you be so willing had they insinuated you waited to long to call them.. really..a whole hour went by before you called them? You know what that means to some on here.. you must indeed be hiding something...

and..if the police knowingly lied to you during an investigation..to try and conjure a confession from you.. would you be so willing to walk arm and arm with them?

All of what you say is just hearsay, until something of that nature happens..and you are subjected to what the Irwin's may have been subjected to.

I think there are some hard facts pointing that other individuals who were around could have very well done this .

Seems as if Jersey had quite the little racket going on with breaking and entry, and perhaps stealing items to be resold for profit. Meagan seemed to be a part of this in selling of these items, and who else in that home of 7 was involved in criminal activity for profit?

Now considering they are adept at break and enters..it does not seem illogical that one or more of them decided to take advantage of a situation to take a baby, and sell it, having inside links as to who would be willing to pay for a blue eyed blonde baby girl... in the criminal world... or perhaps for their own distorted entertainment.

Seems like there are plenty of facts in this case that point away from the parents, including the eye witness reports as well as the picking out of jersey in a police lineup. I would be interested to talk to this witness..and see what he has to say about this whole case and how it has been handled.

To me it seems totally illogical for some on this thread to say that it had to be debbie, yet she was so drunk? How can a seriously drunk person cover up a crime like that, and dispose of the body without police not finding evidence?

Does it not seem more logical that they would find evidence quite quickly if that was the case... much more than if it was a kidnapping by experienced burglars?

I just have to wonder where the common sense is for people who think that way.

I also find it odd that the FBI were the ones that eventually found out about the criminal activity Jeremy was involved with.

There is much more to this, and I think the police either are hiding some facts... or they really bungled another case.







edit on 8-11-2011 by gabby2011 because: (no reason given)



posted on Nov, 8 2011 @ 12:02 PM
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Originally posted by sussy
reply to post by Dav1d
 

I do understand what you mean David. But what would you do? How would you investigate this abduction, and it is an investigation until Lisa is found.


First of all not everyone can be a detective, it takes a special combination of abilities. It takes more than simply being a cop for X period of time.

If I was detective, in those first critical 48 hours, I would NOT have wasted my limited resources and time searching in landfills, sewers, and cisterns... I would choose in those critical hours to use my limited resources to FIND a LIVE child. The sad fact is that no matter how many people you have, the number is limited.

During those first few hours, I'm going to request and get DNA samples from everyone in the home for the last week or more. I'm going to ASSUME it is a kidnapping, while the family is in shock, I'll use that. Yes the parents may know that they are a suspect, but I'm going to bend over backwards NOT to make them feel like they are. I want and NEED their cooperation. I NEED to maintain that cooperation as long as possible.

Ever watch a cop show on TV? The idea as I understand it is you want them talking as long as possible without a lawyer. [Shrug] To my mind the cops here really went out of their way to demonstrate that Deborah and Jeremy NEEDED a Lawyer, as soon as possible. They ( those cops should get a check from the defense team ~ they've done more than anyone to keep Deborah and Jeremy out of jail so far ) by their actions, ended the cooperation of Deborah and Jeremy. That totally silly recreation, ( of entering the window) served no point.

I can go on and on, like the searches, and the slipshod way they were done? That they were done time and time again, at the same location!! What will the defense team make of that? It doesn't take much to show even the police DIDN'T trush their own work, and remember if the POLICE doesn't trust their own work why should the jury? Remember the police went back time and time again, because they weren't SURE.... So how can the jury be more sure than the police? How can they be sure NOtHING was lost? Nothing was added?

I'm sorry but they (Deborah and Jeremy) were confronted way too soon! If they are guilt there is plenty of time to convict them. If Lisa is alive they clock is ticking, if Lisa is dead, she will be just as dead in 48 hours. There is sadly all too much time to recover a body. The cops didn't want the community involved, they toal them to stay home, NOT to get out and look. Another very poor choice in my opinion.



posted on Nov, 8 2011 @ 12:15 PM
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I do understand everyone's take on this. Theories are needed to think outside your own personal comfort zone. Some peoples theories are not what I would of come up with but then none of us made the same with the same emotions, thoughts or intelligence. We don't have the answers and we are sort of investigating ourselves in a way with the little we have. I have moments of empathy with Deborah and feel she is suffering then I look again and read up on the news and I don't have empathy and only have suspicions. Its a cruel world for the parents but its much crueler for Lisa.
I will answer your question.
Yes I would still be working with the police even if they had accused me of killing my child. I would have the intelligence to know that this is something they needed to do. I also know that they need evidence to accuse me with.
I also know that the police try really hard to solve cases especially with children, many are parents themselves.
Through my actions of co-operating with them and supplying everything they needed, my innocence and desperate need to find my baby at no cost to myself or my feelings of fear of being arrested by the police would stop me in anyway. When you are innocent you bloody well know you are innocent. You don't give up after a few days of interrogation. It's when you lie you know you can't keep the lie going. You start to make mistakes. Deborah may be innocent but she gave up too soon.
Go back to the police Deborah, talk again and again and again. Stand there and prove your innocence.



posted on Nov, 8 2011 @ 12:21 PM
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Originally posted by Michelle129th

@jimspellmancnn jim spellman First live shot on #babylisa will be at 1:15 eastern on @HLNTV


New update on twitter

Michelle


Well I'm seeing nothing....
Other than bobbing heads, and money...

edit on 8-11-2011 by Dav1d because: (no reason given)



posted on Nov, 8 2011 @ 12:21 PM
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.....

Absolutely NOTHING new on HLN regarding Lisa...the clothes were talked about and no new interview sched. with boys...that's it???

Justice for Lisa FB page confirms what (sorry can't remember who now) another member said earlier about 4pm. They said not a big enough time slot to report all. *shaking head* that we need to schedule a timeslot for info about a missing baby...

Michelle
edit on 8-11-2011 by Michelle129th because: (no reason given)



posted on Nov, 8 2011 @ 12:29 PM
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Originally posted by sussy
I do understand everyone's take on this. Theories are needed to think outside your own personal comfort zone. Some peoples theories are not what I would of come up with but then none of us made the same with the same emotions, thoughts or intelligence. We don't have the answers and we are sort of investigating ourselves in a way with the little we have. I have moments of empathy with Deborah and feel she is suffering then I look again and read up on the news and I don't have empathy and only have suspicions. Its a cruel world for the parents but its much crueler for Lisa.
I will answer your question.
Yes I would still be working with the police even if they had accused me of killing my child. I would have the intelligence to know that this is something they needed to do. I also know that they need evidence to accuse me with.
I also know that the police try really hard to solve cases especially with children, many are parents themselves.
Through my actions of co-operating with them and supplying everything they needed, my innocence and desperate need to find my baby at no cost to myself or my feelings of fear of being arrested by the police would stop me in anyway. When you are innocent you bloody well know you are innocent. You don't give up after a few days of interrogation. It's when you lie you know you can't keep the lie going. You start to make mistakes. Deborah may be innocent but she gave up too soon.
Go back to the police Deborah, talk again and again and again. Stand there and prove your innocence.


really now?.. until you are in those shoes I don't believe you really know what you would do, especially if you felt they were trying to coerce you into a confession.

Not sure how police could not pick up on obvious clues left behind from a drunken woman who either accidentally killed her baby..or sold it onto the black market.

and maybe when you can only give the same info over and over again, the questions begin to feel useless in actually trying to find out what happened to your baby.

oh by the way..just saw the blurp on HLN on baby lisa.. and its was full of NOTHING.!

Lots of media and twitter hype all for the sake of ratings...I have no respect for that channel ..
..another sensationalistic media whore .



posted on Nov, 8 2011 @ 12:32 PM
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Originally posted by sussy
I do understand everyone's take on this. Theories are needed to think outside your own personal comfort zone. Some peoples theories are not what I would of come up with but then none of us made the same with the same emotions, thoughts or intelligence. We don't have the answers and we are sort of investigating ourselves in a way with the little we have. I have moments of empathy with Deborah and feel she is suffering then I look again and read up on the news and I don't have empathy and only have suspicions. Its a cruel world for the parents but its much crueler for Lisa.
I will answer your question.
Yes I would still be working with the police even if they had accused me of killing my child. I would have the intelligence to know that this is something they needed to do. I also know that they need evidence to accuse me with.
I also know that the police try really hard to solve cases especially with children, many are parents themselves.
Through my actions of co-operating with them and supplying everything they needed, my innocence and desperate need to find my baby at no cost to myself or my feelings of fear of being arrested by the police would stop me in anyway. When you are innocent you bloody well know you are innocent. You don't give up after a few days of interrogation. It's when you lie you know you can't keep the lie going. You start to make mistakes. Deborah may be innocent but she gave up too soon.
Go back to the police Deborah, talk again and again and again. Stand there and prove your innocence.


So based on this, you were not accused, you haven't experience what Deborah has.

Now me, I think if the police choose to hunt for a body, they will most likely find a body, or nothing.... Unless some outside agency not invested in finding a body, happens to find the child.

Also an interesting little typo there....
Might have some relevance to this topic...

And you've had two children disappear while under your care, and CPS didn't get involved? Your parenting skills weren't question? No parent is such a great parent, that they make NO mistakes, and that includes the STATE!



posted on Nov, 8 2011 @ 12:50 PM
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HLN, gives me the impression they are playing with us...

Lisa is NOT a sound bite, nor is she a means to boost ratings..

edit on 8-11-2011 by Dav1d because: (no reason given)



posted on Nov, 8 2011 @ 12:59 PM
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Looks like fox might just have had the real news, rumor is they are reporting that Magan lied, everyone in her shared home has their own phone...



posted on Nov, 8 2011 @ 01:05 PM
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reply to post by Dav1d
 


oops... yes..I meant jersey...ugh..sorry
..my bad.

Please forgive me
...I have too many names running in my head..
edit on 8-11-2011 by gabby2011 because: (no reason given)



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