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Lisa Irwin - Missing - One Year Later

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posted on Nov, 6 2011 @ 11:26 AM
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Originally posted by silo13
reply to post by Human_Alien
 


It was mentioned that Lisa's father didn't even know she existed. Is that right?


I read this update, I believe the link is posted here.

I got confused at first also - you brought up some great info but let me go back first.

The article as I read it stated Deborah's legal HUSBAND - his name is Sean - did not know of Lisa's birth. (He purportedly has not talked to Deborah for two years, or seen his son that's living with Deborah).

Lisa is reported as being the daughter of the man Deborah, Lisa's mother, is currently living with, that's Mr. Irwin. How do we know that? Deborah said so. (Risky that). There's been no confirmation of DNA, etc.

Now to the part you brought up - Kudos on that.

If Lisa's biological parents are not married - why does Lisa carry the Irwin name?
Is that legal - as you said, to just post any ol name you want on your babies birth certificate?
Did Irwin adopt her? Have a blood test? Whatever?

Interesting question that. I like it!


Welcome to the thread - you've already got my head spinning - in a good way!

peace



Wow, this is as complicated, with players, as the Casey Anthony's case


Okay,
Lisa Irwin = Baby Girl (check)
Deborah = Mother (check)
? = Father (check)
Sean = Husband (check)
Jeremy Irwin = live in boyfriend and NOT related to anyone (check)

Lisa is pregnant? By whom?
There are two boys at home?......what broken up family do they belong to?
(Too bad Jerry Springer went off the air)

This is very reminiscent of the Hailey Cummings case where everyone looked shady and resembled third cousins!
(Somehow, a mandated sterilization program doesn't sound like such a bad idea anymore)


Yup. I am thoroughly confused. Are there Cliff Notes on this case anywhere please?




posted on Nov, 6 2011 @ 11:35 AM
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Originally posted by OneisOne
Believe it or not, the name can be anything the mother wants when she fills out the form at the hospital. (Except for maybe numbers and symbols). So when Lisa was born, if Mr. Irwin was listed as the bio-dad, his surname is acceptable legally. I think the rule is, the surname has to belong to either the mom or dad listed on the birth certificate.

OiO


To add, I did an internet search and found out that the name can be whatever the person that fills out the form chooses, first, middle and last!!! I had no idea, not sure if that applies to all states though.

OiO



posted on Nov, 6 2011 @ 11:35 AM
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Originally posted by Human_Alien
It was mentioned that Lisa's father didn't even know she existed. Is that right?

There was a 911 call posted toward the beginning of this thread where the woman making the call said something about the father of the baby didn't even know that the baby existed. It turned out that that 911 call was not about the Lisa Irwin case; it was about another missing child. I believe Silo asked the moderators to remove the 911 call post after she realized it was in error, but the mods never removed it.

If you go back to where you found that information, if it indeed was from the 911 call, that post is not a credible source of information.



posted on Nov, 6 2011 @ 11:42 AM
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Originally posted by Human_Alien
Yup. I am thoroughly confused. Are there Cliff Notes on this case anywhere please?


HA the only thing I can offer is links that have been posted in this thread. (Many thanks to those that have posted them!!!)

Here are two that I have referred back to.

Who's Who link posted by Silo: Missing Baby Lisa Irwin Investigation Who’s Who

Timeline of events, sorry can't remember who posted this one. Also note this info comes from an "un-named source": Details emerge about the night baby Lisa Irwin disappeared

OiO



posted on Nov, 6 2011 @ 12:43 PM
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Originally posted by Michelle129th

Originally posted by Dav1d

Originally posted by Michelle129th
Well I guess this puts to rest questions about who exactly Mike Thompson ID'd in the photo lineup police showed to him.

As he, and Judge Jeanine Pirro state, he's been cleared and passed a polygraph....so I guess that's it then? But interesting he was the person picked out by motorcycle guy especially since his face hasn't even been all over the media, so it wasn't a case of identifying someone that looked familiar from the news. I am trying to find the video or transcript of Judge Jeanine's show from yesterday and add it here as well.

Michelle


Curious, you are aware that James Brando is alledged to be the father of a baby, just about Lisa age? Just perhaps, what was reported some time ago, was NOT a case of copy and paste error, but the truth?



David, welcome back...we missed you and your different insight into this case!

I had posted a while back in the thread about there being a baby in the brando family as per seeing a "congrats" post on James' facebook page. I tried to research that with no avail so didn't bother much about it. But yes, back in Dec 2009 (i'm assuming) Samantha was at the very least expecting a baby (or thought she was). I wondered what happened with that baby...that would/should be a bit older than Lisa now. Given the Dec congrats I guessed it to be approx a summer birth. Although it could be as late as October 2010 (a month before Lisa) and as early as...well Dec. 2009 if they hadn't told anyone until very late in the pregnancy.

I don't want to pry into people's personal lives...but since they are involved in this case at least somewhat I have to wonder what scenarios, if any, this could now open suspicions to....

Michelle



One more thought in this mess maybe Baby Lisa is Samantha and Jeremy's baby! That would explain why Jeremy went and beat on their door before he called police.



posted on Nov, 6 2011 @ 01:18 PM
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Originally posted by judydawg


One more thought in this mess maybe Baby Lisa is Samantha and Jeremy's baby! That would explain why Jeremy went and beat on their door before he called police.


Odds would be Lisa is Deborah and Jeremy.
There is a possibility that Lisa is Deborah and James.

If Samantha was pregnant in Dec 2009 with Jeremy's child I believe the child would be slightly older than Lisa...it's worth noting that some males find their partner unattrictive while carrying their child and look elsewhere for their enjoyment/pleasure shall we say?

On another note, generally speaking a conversation between ones lawyers and their client is privileged, but when there is a third party present, they no longer are protected....



posted on Nov, 6 2011 @ 01:30 PM
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reply to post by OneisOne
 

Thanks for supplying the info - I never knew that!

Incredible!

So, no one really knows for sure who Lisa's father is.

I'm not casting doubts, just opening speculation.

peace



posted on Nov, 6 2011 @ 01:35 PM
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reply to post by Redux
 

I believe Silo asked the moderators to remove the 911 call post after she realized it was in error, but the mods never removed it.

It WAS removed.


If you go back to where you found that information, if it indeed was from the 911 call, that post is not a credible source of information.

As I posted we're discussing information that has nothing to do with that 911 call but referring to a RECENT article.

The information about Sean Bradley - (Deborah's husband) - not being aware of Lisa's birth comes from a recent report here: link


Sean is the father to Debbie’s 5-year-old son, who lives with her and Irwin. Hazel says Sean hadn’t known that Lisa was born.


Sean is also Deborah's LEGAL husband.

The son is not 5, but 6.

peace

edit on 6-11-2011 by silo13 because: bbc



posted on Nov, 6 2011 @ 01:40 PM
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reply to post by Human_Alien
 



Lisa is pregnant? By whom?
There are two boys at home?......what broken up family do they belong to?
(Too bad Jerry Springer went off the air)


Lisa is the missing daughter of Deborah Bradley and (if you want to believe what she put on the birth certificate) Jeremy Irwin who Lisa's mother was living with at the time Lisa went 'missing'. They've been living together two years and some.

There were reports Deborah was pregnant with twins - this has never been confirmed.

Deborah Bradley and Jeremy Irwin lived in the home with one son that 'belonged' to Irwin from a past relationship, one son of Deborah's and Sean's (her legal husband) and little Lisa, the child credited to being fathered by Jeremy Irwin.

peace



posted on Nov, 6 2011 @ 01:41 PM
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reply to post by silo13
 


Perhaps one of the reasons that James was asked for a DNA sample? If one assumes that KCPD, actually knows what it may or may not be doing...
Of course if they just assumed that Lisa was Deborah and Jeremy child, that might not have been checked...
Or the KCPD could have told Jeremy that he is NOT the father of Lisa....
The KCPD is not required to be honest, when dealing with the public....



posted on Nov, 6 2011 @ 01:47 PM
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One thing that has always had me going "HMMMMMmm" was that on Deborah's aunt's facebook page (Mike LeRette's mom) she posted a few really odd statements

Oct 15

Cindy Chivalette LeRette I would like to ask everyone to PLEASE copy a flyer about Baby Lisa and put them up ANYWHERE you live, work, shop, etc. Someone has to know something about her. We know where-ever she is she's safe and the apple of someone's eye. But they don't deserve the happiness for our family's sadness.


Oct 18

Cindy Chivalette LeRette Although I am thankful for the search efforts , I am sick and tired of them searching in wooded areas (not to mention the same fricking ones over and over) okay so they may find the cell phones and possible direction they traveled. GET OFF OF IT ALREADY AND START QUESTIONING PEOPLE AND CHECKING IN HOUSES. BABY LISA WAS NOT TAKEN BECAUSE SOMEONE WANTED TO HURT HER, SHE IS BEING WELL TAKEN CARE OF......SOMEWHERE........ANYWHERE.....NOT IN THE WOODS !!!!!!


Oct 22

Cindy Chivalette LeRette PLEASE pass this along so we can have these pages shut down. I REALLY REALLY Need y'all NOW!!!!!!! There is so much the public doesn't know and I wish I could share....and one day I will. Thank You


Those statements are very....odd to me. I don't know if she knows something that isn't coming out in the story? here's another scenario ...a stretch but hey at this point, aren't we all the possibilities a stretch??

What if there WAS a ransom demand and the parents were told not to contact authorities and they are too scared to say so? I know...sounds like a million movies we've all seen, but those statements sound as if this aunt knows something we don't....

Michelle



posted on Nov, 6 2011 @ 01:51 PM
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Originally posted by silo13

As I posted we're discussing information that has nothing to do with that 911 call but referring to a RECENT article.

The information about Sean Bradley - (Deborah's husband) - not being aware of Lisa's birth comes from a recent report here: link


Sean is the father to Debbie’s 5-year-old son, who lives with her and Irwin. Hazel says Sean hadn’t known that Lisa was born.


Sean is also Deborah's LEGAL husband.

The son is not 5, but 6.

peace

edit on 6-11-2011 by silo13 because: bbc


Silo, if you read HumanAlien's post he said he didn't read past page 4 and skipped directly to this page. He IS talking about that 911 call. Even though the post was removed other members were discussing the "father not knowing" in relation to that 911 post. Their posts unfortunately weren't removed.

Human Alien, you really need to read the majority of the thread, or at least go through some of the links. It's difficult at this point to do a coles note version. Depending on whom you get the "coles notes" from you will get a very different version of the story.

Michelle



posted on Nov, 6 2011 @ 01:52 PM
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reply to post by Michelle129th
 

I'd like to hear more from you about those quotes you feel are 'off' - just so I can get in your head a bit (I promise I'll not leave stray gum wrappers and empty water bottles behind when I leave)...


Also:


What if there WAS a ransom demand and the parents were told not to contact authorities and they are too scared to say so? I know...sounds like a million movies we've all seen, but those statements sound as if this aunt knows something we don't....


This is completely believable - unless you factor in anyone who knew the family well enough to sneak into the house to steal Lisa would have to be an unmitigated moron to think they had money. Unless they're doing something pretty nefarious and lucrative behind closed doors we don't know about? Or, that ‘benefactor’ who’s paying for Tapioca would put up the cash???

peace

edit on 6-11-2011 by silo13 because: bold



posted on Nov, 6 2011 @ 01:58 PM
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Originally posted by silo13
reply to post by Michelle129th
 

I'd like to hear more from you about those quotes you feel are 'off' - just so I can get in your head a bit (I promise I'll not leave stray gum wrappers and empty water bottles behind when I leave)...


I can't pinpoint it exactly..but it feels to me like the aunt knows something. It could very well be that she is just keeping positive thoughts when she says lisa is safe somewhere and people are taking care of her... I could get that by thinking positive maybe positive will come. It was more the 3rd one that caught my eye

PLEASE pass this along so we can have these pages shut down. I REALLY REALLY Need y'all NOW!!!!!!! There is so much the public doesn't know and I wish I could share....and one day I will. Thank You

What more is there to share?? And hopefully, it has been shared with the police/FBI. I don't recall this aunt ever being questioned...although I'm guessing if there is some deep family secret the other family members will also know about it.





This is completely believable other than the fact that anyone who knew them well enough to sneak into the house to steal Lisa would have to be an unmitigated moron to think they had money. Unless they're doing something pretty nefarious and lucrative behind closed doors we don't know about? Or, that ‘benefactor’ who’s paying for Tapioca would put up the cash???

peace



edit on 6-11-2011 by silo13 because: (no reason given)


Yeah...hadn't thought that far ahead yet LOL...the benefactor (possibly a Kristi Schiller Hoss person that seems an interesting lead) perhaps would be the person they would be looking to get money from. Although, I guess if that was the intended outcome someone was looking for in this case, why haven't they given her back yet

Michelle



posted on Nov, 6 2011 @ 02:04 PM
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Originally posted by Michelle129th


What if there WAS a ransom demand and the parents were told not to contact authorities and they are too scared to say so? I know...sounds like a million movies we've all seen, but those statements sound as if this aunt knows something we don't....

Michelle


Okay what if there is a note, just NOT a ransom note? What if there is a note that attempts to justify the taking of Lisa? What if this note simply doesn't fit with KCPD's take on what happen, and so like so many other things the KCPD has moved on? What if this note wasn't left but came later? What if KCPD chose to dismiss it as from a nut case?



posted on Nov, 6 2011 @ 02:18 PM
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Originally posted by silo13

This is completely believable - unless you factor in anyone who knew the family well enough to sneak into the house to steal Lisa would have to be an unmitigated moron to think they had money. Unless they're doing something pretty nefarious and lucrative behind closed doors we don't know about? Or, that ‘benefactor’ who’s paying for Tapioca would put up the cash???

peace

edit on 6-11-2011 by silo13 because: bold


Would they? Or would they only need to know about the link to K9ForPolice? Perhaps shared a Christmas?
Just because you are unaware of any past gifts, are we to assume that there were none? Or could it have been something that Deborah and Jeremy were proud of? That they had a rich relative that cared enough to....



posted on Nov, 6 2011 @ 02:24 PM
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reply to post by Dav1d
 


Interesting take...it could very well have been someone not looking for money but just a note as to why they took her with the threat of harm if they told anyone.

Honestly, even though this is my own scenario I don't know that it's all that believable for a few reasons. Wouldn't they have refused the lawyer's and Wild Bill's help in case it was construed as contacting authorities? I don't know..it hurts to think anymore on this. This is why I'm not a lawyer/cop/detective....my brain can't handle all the different paths!!

Speaking of lawyers...I wonder where Cyndy Short has gone? She said a week ago she would continue to look for Baby Lisa, but hasn't been seen or heard from since? I wonder if she joined the community search yesterday? I sincerely hope she wasn't using this as a PR campaign....maybe they were right to fire her. OR, just to remain open minded....maybe she is doing behind the scenes searching...following leads?

Michelle



posted on Nov, 6 2011 @ 02:25 PM
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reply to post by Dav1d
 


What if there is a note that attempts to justify the taking of Lisa? What if this note simply doesn't fit with KCPD's take on what happen, and so like so many other things the KCPD has moved on?


So by your thinking someone left a note explaining they just had to take Lisa, they don't want any money for her and the KCPD police just didn't think it was important so they moved on?

Is it April 1st already?

Ya know Dave, you can knock the KCPD police all you want, go for it, your choice, but at some point someone really needs to pull you aside and very kindly point out you're bordering on becoming ludicrous.

peace

edit on 6-11-2011 by silo13 because: bold



posted on Nov, 6 2011 @ 02:46 PM
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Originally posted by OneisOne



Believe it or not, the name can be anything the mother wants when she fills out the form at the hospital. (Except for maybe numbers and symbols). So when Lisa was born, if Mr. Irwin was listed as the bio-dad, his surname is acceptable legally. I think the rule is, the surname has to belong to either the mom or dad listed on the birth certificate.

OiO



That is absolutely not true. It's ONLY true if Irwin is taking on the responsibility and.....gets her legally adopted.

Think about it...iff that WERE the case (and it was that simple for mothers to name their babies anything they want), do you know how many (famous or rich) men would be accused as being these fathers only to later on ...have everyone go to court to get the names switched? The courts would be backed up big time. You have to present proof. And if not, the baby gets the mothers name when s/he leaves the hospital.

A mother can NOT just tell the hospital clerk upon check out that: "my son is Barack Obama Jr" without the 'father' agreeing.

If there is no father (this is if the mother is unwed) then the baby gets the mothers last name.



OP. Yeah. My bad about confusing Lisa and Deborah.
I'm still not understanding the family dynamics though. The 'husband' opposed to 'father' opposed to live-in 'boyfriend'. I surmise these are three different men correct?

Any idea how old these people are? They look to be in their early 20's. Is that right?

edit on 6-11-2011 by Human_Alien because: (no reason given)



posted on Nov, 6 2011 @ 02:56 PM
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reply to post by Human_Alien
 


Some of the Players in the Lisa Irwin Case


Lisa Irwin -> 11 month old baby reported missing October 4, 2011 from 3620 N. Lister Ave. Kansas City, MO

Deborah Bradley -> Lisa's mother

Jeremy Irwin -> Lisa's alledged father

Phillip Netz -> Deborah little brother lived with them 3620 N Lister

6-year-old boy -> Lisa's Half brother (Deborah Bradley's son from previous marriage - with Sean Bradley)

8-year-old boy -> Lisa's Half brother (Jeremy Irwin's son from previous relationship - with Rasleen Raim)

Sean Bradley -> Deborah Bradley's Ex-Husband (Father of Lisa's 6 year old half brother)

Rasleen Raim -> Jeremy Irwins Ex girl friend (Mother of Lisa's 8 year old half brother) 


Hope that helps...



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