Lisa Irwin - Missing - One Year Later

reply to post by Michelle129th

Yeah, there's just too much adding up - that doesn't add up - but does add up, lol.
It's like those round pegs are fitting in the round holes when they shouldn't.

What about Lisa? Wow... I'd make a joke about it being the 100 thousand dollar question if that wasn't all too true and all true horrible.

peace

CONTINUANCE>>>>>>

Since there is a gathering maybe Lisa isn't allowing for the adult time to continue and JI usually puts her to sleep or maybe deals with her mostly. (Jeremy has been quoted that he spent a lot of time with the children and caring for them.) Since Deb is home alone with them her nerves are frazzled and Lisa isn't feelng well, could Lisa have given OTC meds to make her sleep and gave her too much? By the time Lisa realizes this it is just too late. Could the boys have been watching her and just didn't notice that Lisa's condition was bad - they possibly thought the baby was just asleep. The boys and Brando's girl have been occupied playing vid games OR maybe the boys were playing vid games and Brando's daughter could be watching a movie - at DB's or even at her own house because the Brandos are arguing and the daughter is actually staying with daddy. INSERT ALL OF THE THEORIES HERE AS TO LISA'S MISFORTUNE!!

The cig butts - could the slum seven have come over to DB's to party before of some stopped by with Jersey as Jersey and DB may have a fling going on or maybe dropping of illicit drugs and share a mary jane cig.

I have other thoughts .... mommy duty calls. Hopefully I make since if not I am sure it is a platform for thought as for me I am juggling child, dinner, flu, pets, ATS -while attempting to channel Sherlock Holmes.

Detailed timeline of missing baby Lisa Irwin - Weeks 1 -3
Has inconsistencies as well - Parents versions as they change....

www.examiner.com... ons-in-national/detailed-timeline-weeks-1-3-missing-baby-lisa-irwin-case

This was created on 10.26.11 - hopefully it works.

So today we learn the neighbor she drank with Samantha Brando and her hubby James Brando were indeed having a spat and hewas to spend the night elsewhere and he has been questioned by police and has passed a polygraph test. Says on his fb he does electronic SURVEILLANCE for spring. Now in light of all these mysterious phone calls and missing and stolen phones and do they get service and can they call in or out and does any of it make any sense............... does James Brandos' expertise in electronic surveillance factor in at all or not? If not, then it's just one more of the seemingly endless bits of useless information that have caused this case to go nowhere !

Oops he works for SPRINT **** not Spring ,

Sadly, I want to bring attention to the fact that the Kansas City Star -- the metro's only major newspaper -- has removed from their homepage the Lisa Irwin Breaking News major clickable link, which has for a month been at the very top of the page, highlighted in red and very much the top story. Apparently, the "no new developments" plague has demoted little Lisa to a not-news status.

The mayor's Christmas Tree, however, having arrived, is VERY special and important! Woo hoo!! (/sarcasm)

www.kansascity.com...

The local stations and reporters are kinda-sorta regurgitating the older stuff, and the only new development seems to be that the brother of Deborah has now been interviewed by investigators to the tune of several hours...
he has been living in the home where Lisa's family are staying, and there is now hearsay that he was at the home the evening in question.

So....
wherever Lisa may be, her plight is no longer the local headline news.

But, the parents met with their new local attorney yesterday -- another major-crimes defense specialist. Who defended the murderer of a local man.
Sickening.

"You're known by the company you keep." Something worth remembering.

Kansas City police said they are not actively searching for 11-month-old Lisa Irwin. Police also said the parents still are not cooperating in the investigation.

That about says it all... Besides...

Where's Lisa?

peace

reply to post by silo13


Huh!
How very odd!
Because on their (the KCPD's) website, THEY claim they are.
www.kcmo.org...

Missing 11-month-old, Lisa Irwin


Police are still looking for 11-month-old Lisa Irwin. We urge anyone with information to call 911 or contact the TIPS Hotline at 816-474-8477.

So now we have yet more conflicting information. I'm thinking the brother cleared up a LOT of questions. I wonder if we'll ever hear the answers. Even if we do, how will we be able to believe it?
*sigh*

Keep an eye on the news today....I dont even know if we're allowed to use twitter as a source, so I won't quote it, but a reporter from CNN that has been reporting on this case has said today 2 "new" figures will emerge in this case. He tweeted that last night and again this morning. I wonder who they may be...or if it's even true? We have seen time and again in this case that reporters will say something and it will later shown to be true, so i'll give him the benefit of the doubt at this point.

It has been reported that the neighbour Samantha's husband has taken a polygraph and passed...

Baby Lisa Irwin Missing: Neighbor Given Polygraph

The man has cooperated with authorities, allowing his home to be searched and taking a polygraph test.

Hmm...just noticed this in the article as well...which doesn't jibe with any of the other reports or timelines of the "source" we've been hearing about. Nor does it even make sense with what was going on in Samantha Brando's relationship with him (they were separating)...

The spouse of Samantha Brando was interviewed by CNN on Wednesday. He is a close friend with baby Lisa's mother, Deborah Bradley, and was with Bradley the evening of Oct. 3 drinking and smoking cigarettes.

I haven't seen that reported anywhere else so again it could be a media spin or mistake. Regardless they have apparently cleared him....so who does that leave?? Someone from Megan's house...Samantha herself....or someone else they've since found out was also at the front porch that night?

Michelle

reply to post by Michelle129th


Maybe the 2 new figures are samantha and james brando and they're going to speak? who knows .
IT's sad shes' not front page news now in KC.
LISA !!!!!!!!!

Baby Lisa Case: Extended Family's Criminal History

I'm not going to list the whole thing. This blog lists case dockets and information about extended family with history of crimes against children.

If nothing else it confirms there's the 'family history' of abuse and violence which was posted in this thread earlier.

I'm making no implications only posting information related to the family of Lisa Irwin.

peace

Retired FBI agent: Lisa’s looks are changing

"A month is a long time for a baby to be missing and for the during the first year of life, the child changes from month to month and the features likely changed, the features have probably changed a little bit but of course she will still be a recognizable baby but the fact is the features do change,” said Lanza.

For example, those two bottom teeth she was described as having when she was first reporting missing, she will now most likely have more teeth.

I don't know why but this statement about Lisa having two teeth now? It's one of the saddest things I've read so far concerning Lisa. Babies are so adorable with those two wee little teeth poking up from the bottom of their little gums. Their slobbery smiles while teething. Parents so proud of those teeth... 'Show Daddy your teeth...'

Gawd... This is so sad. And yes, I KNOW there are millions of little babies dying all over the world, suffering, hungry, and Lisa is just one little baby... BUT it reminds me of a story.

(Roughly) There's a man's walking down a beach studded with starfish, there's millions of them dotting the beach all dying under the sun. He walks by a little boy tossing starfish one by one back into the ocean. The man asks the boy why he's bothering - he can't save them all. The little boy replies... 'But I can save this one...' and tosses another starfish into the water. 'And this one...'...

peace

reply to post by Michelle129th


No, it doesn't make sense, you're right Michelle. In that same article it says

Brando stayed at a friend's home at about 5 p.m. on Oct. 3. Brando told CNN that he woke up for work at 5 a.m. the next day at Whiteman Air force Base.

Right below where it said "He" was smoking and drinking with Deborah. I think perhaps it's poor copy-editing there...they probably meant "She

is a close friend with baby Lisa's mother, Deborah Bradley

.
Maybe just a terribly placed typo?

If 'good thoughts' can help? If 'thinking positive' can help?

Watch this clip and THINK OF LISA!

peace

reply to post by silo13

If nothing else it confirms there's the 'family history' of abuse and violence

Which is very important in the analysis and understanding of the case. As a professional in behavioral-health, one of the theories I used most frequently was "Family Systems". If, with a therapist's help, a client can look objectively at the history of their families, the different personalities, the timelines, the accumulated successes or challenges, the client (theoritically -- it depends on the client's willingness to look at it) can become more insightful into how their part in the larger picture fits in....

Particularly in terms of inherited tendencies and predispositions, learned behaviors, and general coping mechanisms.
If Deborah was connected to these others (which I am not saying she was or was not), it would be at least a starting point to see what the system of the group was before she came along.

The combination of parents actively shaping the development of their offspring, offspring innately responding to their parents' moods, attitudes, and actions, and the long dependency period of human offspring results in people developing levels of differentiation of self similar to their parents' levels. However, the relationship patterns of nuclear family emotional systems often result in at least one member of a sibling group developing a little more "self" and another member developing a little less "self" than the parents.

www.thebowencenter.org...

This is where my thoughts always go when these mysterious and perplexing patterns of behavior show up.
Not saying anything except that this is one angle from which to look at the puzzle.

Originally posted by wildtimes
Sadly, I want to bring attention to the fact that the Kansas City Star -- the metro's only major newspaper -- has removed from their homepage the Lisa Irwin Breaking News major clickable link...Apparently, the "no new developments" plague has demoted little Lisa to a not-news status.

That is sad. With no new fodder the media has run this horse into the ground, and now will abandon it.

Originally posted by wildtimes
The mayor's Christmas Tree, however, having arrived, is VERY special and important! Woo hoo!! (/sarcasm)

Now, running that is actually a little sick, or at the very least, in really poor taste.

Originally posted by wildtimes

But, the parents met with their new local attorney yesterday -- another major-crimes defense specialist. Who defended the murderer of a local man.
Sickening.

I keep seeing this come up over and over. Many people here seem to think that if one retains a defense attorney or specifically a criminal defense attorney it is somehow proof of guilt, or (as implied above) at least proof of... being bad people...? This doesn't make any sense. So what should they get? An Innocent Defense Attorney? I don't think that they have those. All joking aside, if you fear you are going to be accused of a criminal offense than get a criminal defense attorney. Anything else is stupid.

An accusation is not proof of guilt. An investigation, is not proof of guilt. Being convicted in the court of public opinion is not proof of guilt. If there is a trial, the fact of the trial in and of itself is NOT PROOF OF GUILT. The investigative process is not infallible because at the end of the day, it is human beings making these determinations; and as this thread illustrates just beautifully people are prone to bias, scapegoating, and mob mentalities. Even the cops, even the "trained professionals" can behave this way. This is why we have a trial, and *gasp* defense attorneys; even attorneys who specialize in criminal defense. Sometimes, the process goes wrong. Sometimes people need someone to defend them if they are wrongly accused, and it happens far, far more often than many people are aware of (apparently).

Originally posted by wildtimes
"You're known by the company you keep." Something worth remembering.

I could throw a few tired cliches out here myself at this one, but most of them contain questionable language, so I will settle for...

"Innocent until proven guilty." Something worth remembering as well.

So, we've found the 'kitten' but not the kid.

(See mark 1:30 - Jeremy foots the small cat off the porch)...





peace

Originally posted by redhorse
I keep seeing this come up over and over. Many people here seem to think that if one retains a defense attorney or specifically a criminal defense attorney it is somehow proof of guilt, or (as implied above) at least proof of... being bad people...? This doesn't make any sense. So what should they get? An Innocent Defense Attorney? I don't think that they have those. All joking aside, if you fear you are going to be accused of a criminal offense than get a criminal defense attorney. Anything else is stupid. ...The investigative process is not infallible because at the end of the day, it is human beings making these determinations; and as this thread illustrates just beautifully people are prone to bias, scapegoating, and mob mentalities. Even the cops, even the "trained professionals" can behave this way....

We've been over this before. Some find it logical and sensible for someone who is afraid of being accused to hire a defense attorney. Clearly that's what this family has done. Some find it a "red flag" -- as in, if you have done nothing wrong, why do you need a high-roller, world-class, celebrity attorney, bring attention to yourself for weeks on end by perplexing behavior and the apparent refusal to cooperate with local investigators?

I, and others on this thread, have addressed this issue.

For a scientific and objective look at why this behavior can reasonably be seen as negative or suspicious, have a look at this site, which Silo referenced this morning...seamusoriley.blogspot.com...
In the interest of ATS' mission, perhaps you can glean a little education from the link above, to understand how trained professionals *raises hand* DO look at behaviors, and the methods they use to do so:

Baby Lisa: Behavioral Analysis

"No one knows how they'd react if their child was missing" Cindy Anthony
That's the interesting part of behavioral analysis: we do know how guilty people act and how innocent people act.

"Just because someone tells a few mistruths doesn't make them a murderer" Cindy Anthony
On the contrary, fabrication of reality and murder are linked. Cindy makes for great quotes. We do know that when a child goes missing and the mother and/or father lie, the child is likely dead, a victim of homicide at the hands of one or both of the parents.
We do know that 1500 parents each year kill their children.
We do know that most all stranger abductions are not only rare, but the baby lives.
We have something similar to Statement Analysis: Behavioral Analysis.

Further down, the methods are explained and illustrated.
Here's a snip, just for anyone who doesn't actually feel like tripping on over to this article:

Behavioral Analysis can be viewed in two ways:
1. Research
2. Common Sense
1. Research: The FBI amasses a great volume of research by simply reporting the actions of family of missing persons and when the case is adjudicated, they put the file on either pile A or pile B. Pile A is "family did it" and pile B, much smaller, "Stranger did it" and are able to compare the behavior of families in Pile A with families in Pile B. Elizabeth Smart's family, for example, is in Pile B.

see the article for further examples of A and B

Guilty people react one way and innocent people react another.

Now here's the Common Sense part:

2. Common Sense
Some people are naturals at Behavioral Analysis. It is a matter of working through detail with systematic thought. It starts with a premise:
Believe what you are told. This is the same principle of Statement Analysis: believe that what you are about to examine is truthful and make your way through the facts (or in the case of linguistic analysis, through the words) and see if you hit any bumps in the road.

Then they give more examples...which see.
and

the innocent tell attorneys where to go, and can't eat, sleep, or function for the first few weeks.

Quite diff from scapegoating.

You have articulated yourself using good syntax, grammar, and spelling. Had you left out the *gasp* sarcasm and the labels of "bias, scapegoating, and mob mentalities" as well as the following

I could throw a few tired cliches out here myself at this one, but most of them contain questionable language, so I will settle for...

You might have earned my respect. But no, unfortunately, the snide remarks and couched name-calling hint that you are not actually interested in looking at this case from a "behavioral science" point of view. I am a behavioral scientist. It is my profession.
The article has great examples and is worth a read. But...after all..

This is common sense and some people are better at it than others.

Another interesting tidbit....again I don't believe we can use some of these sources so I won't quote (hopefully just talking about them isn't against T&C either).

On James Brando's facebook page back in Dec 2009 someone is congratulating him on his newcoming baby. I'd assume it was fairly new news which would mean a baby coming in 2010 (so a 1 year old now). The only children we've heard about Samantha bringing over is the older 4 year old. Wonder what happened with that baby? Of course they could very well have a 1 year old that was somewhere else that evening..but it could also mean there is no baby as in something going wrong with the pregnancy or the baby itself. Lets say it being "new" news in Dec 2009 could possibly mean a due date of approx. summer 2010. Along comes baby Lisa in Nov 2010....could the neighbours have been still grieving a loss of their baby?

Would this "tie in" with Jeremy's statement of "someone who had lost a baby, who had miscarried...cheated on their husb..." Maybe why jeremy went to Samantha's house first looking for Lisa? Maybe he thought she might take the baby?

This is ALLLLLL speculation, and not even my own ideas...something I had seen somewhere else..someone else's "detective" work, but seem to fit maybe?

Michelle

reply to post by wildtimes


So are you saying that you think debbie is guilty..through your "professional" insight..and common sense?

reply to post by Michelle129th

Would this "tie in" with Jeremy's statement of "someone who had lost a baby, who had miscarried...cheated on their husb..." Maybe why jeremy went to Samantha's house first looking for Lisa? Maybe he thought she might take the baby? This is ALLLLLL speculation, and not even my own ideas...something I had seen somewhere else..someone else's "detective" work, but seem to fit maybe?

This is what I originally thought could be possible when he said those words..but trying to throw that kind of 'common sense" in this thread.. doesn't go over very well with those who have already decided who is most likely guilty.