Lisa Irwin - Missing - One Year Later

And since she is a liar, why should we take anything she says as the truth?

Many people lie.. actually we all do at some point or other, to varying degrees,and for varying purposes.. even if it is a white lie to make people feel better.

Politicians lie, and yet we continue to listen to them on certain issues,even after they have been proven to be liars.

Debbie may have lied.. and for what reasons, I'm not sure yet.. but that doesn't mean she never tells the truth, because that would mean that all liars never tell the truth...which is not true.

Originally posted by silo13
reply to post by mcsandy

 

In the above Nancy Grace show hosted by JVM states the homeless Jersey is in jail.....so I think there is only one.

Again there are two. One is an African American and he's in Federal. He's reported as being 6 foot plus and over 200 pounds. I've many links - problem is none of them are admissible here on ATS. I know there's an acceptable link somewhere her in the thread - he was covered in a blog and I reported here - I've just yet to go back and get the link - which I probably will not do. I've posted it once, that's enough. Needless to say the 'black' Jersey - as many call him (no offense in tended I'm reporting what's in the blogs, etc) was well known in the same area.

The other is Megan's ex-boyfriend - currently he and his newly shaven bald head are in a State facility. Unless he just got out. I've not read headlines this morning - yet.

peace

I do believe there are two...but in my head there is only one involved....correct? I am not sure when or where the other Jersey came into play but the one that is being held in county is the ex of Megan W.. As far as blogs....forums....aggregates of verbal vommit...yes I have seen various rumors as well but going with the facts at play - I believe JTanko is being held for misdemeanor offenses and suspicion of burglary via broken in windowsk, squatting at a guys house that the address was given here on this thread which was a man's home who currently is or was in NY. I am not sure he is out..... there is a vid of his court appearance somewhere. I thought it was on here....so how the post I made did not get uploaded...due to novice operator error I am sure. ;-o

I had also talked about the timeframe of Jeremy after I posted that timeline from the two news outlets in KC. I found it odd that it took so long as well to report Lisa missing.

Originally posted by silo13
reply to post by mcsandy

 

ONE thing that rings in my head that DB and JI are concealing the actual truth is JI's statement to Piro of Fox after she asked the question who could have done this and his answer was.....someone who cheated on her husband!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! WTH????

I posted about this here in the thread - under 'Statement analysis'. Jeremy was extremely obvious in trying to 'correct' himself.

And the closest person to Jeremy that is 'cheating on her husband' - is in fact Deborah. She's still married. She's living with another man (Jeremy) and has a child by him. Though Jeremy is an active participant in this 'technically' adulterous affair - we don't know how he was raised. He might not be so thrilled about it all the way around. Or, he could have been speaking his fears. If she's cheated on Sean, her husband, with Jeremy, it's easy for a man who might be not quiet so - secure - in himself to have fears Deborah might cheat on him - and in a moment of stress this point came out. call it Freudian slip if you will.

peace

Statement Analysis - are you speaking from an educated stance of evaluation.....if so then yes I believe I did miss it. I missed a lot while I was ill and skimmed over some that i thought were portions that I had read in other statement analysis blogs...I don't mean that I am requesting for everyone to regurgitate their previous statements for my lack of obtaining or following the previous points.

Freudian slip I can entertain that...I just really think that a devoted father would just say something else.

I've read over the timelines posted on this site, and checked other sites. Maybe I missed it but exactly WHEN did 911 get the phone call? I can't seem to find it. Thanks.

reply to post by Gridrebel

I've read over the timelines posted on this site, and checked other sites. Maybe I missed it but exactly WHEN did 911 get the phone call? I can't seem to find it. Thanks.

04:04 - It's way back in the thread somewhere. I'm glad you asked about it 'cause I wanted to look it up anyway!

Originally posted by silo13
reply to post by mcsandy

 

In the above Nancy Grace show hosted by JVM states the homeless Jersey is in jail.....so I think there is only one.

Again there are two. One is an African American and he's in Federal. He's reported as being 6 foot plus and over 200 pounds. I've many links - problem is none of them are admissible here on ATS. I know there's an acceptable link somewhere her in the thread - he was covered in a blog and I reported here - I've just yet to go back and get the link - which I probably will not do. I've posted it once, that's enough. Needless to say the 'black' Jersey - as many call him (no offense in tended I'm reporting what's in the blogs, etc) was well known in the same area.

The other is Megan's ex-boyfriend - currently he and his newly shaven bald head are in a State facility. Unless he just got out. I've not read headlines this morning - yet.

peace

News nugget ....he is actually being held on the suspicion of breaking and entering a vehicle. His criminallity ways was the reason Megan broke up with him.....per a vid seg on a local news station Tuesday evening. Wasn't she tracked down by investigators via a craigs lits post regarding the sale of gps units....8 or so??? That would usually be found in a vehicle??? Hmmm....as they have said for now they are "moving on" from Megan and Jersey Tanko. I am sure this means keeping them in sight and following up on the investigations of the two. In the same station page they are reporting that DBs brother is now stating he was there with the Brando and Bradley on Oct 3 during their adult time - new info released from the interview.

Does this start The Vanishing of Lisa Irwin 6.0??? The walls of deception seem to be crumbling away by the investigators.

www.kmbc.com...

Hear Dispatch Tapes Moments After Baby Lisa Disappears

I hope this still works

Originally posted by silo13
reply to post by Gridrebel

 

I've read over the timelines posted on this site, and checked other sites. Maybe I missed it but exactly WHEN did 911 get the phone call? I can't seem to find it. Thanks.

04:04 - It's way back in the thread somewhere. I'm glad you asked about it 'cause I wanted to look it up anyway!

Heresay.....read that there were 2 calls - 1 from JI about a burglary at first...then the call about Lisa being missing. I als recall reading in the same area that the burglary in progress was at the JI DB home...I recall seeing the law lingo - code for burglary somewhere BUT NOT SURE if it was from JI or from someone in the neighborhood calling in the timeframe at question about a burglary in progress.....and "heresay" again...recall reading that someone called 911 after hearing screaming, squealing and/or arguing?! This would play into the fact that maybe JI went off on a angry rant to DB (dom violence - verbal at this time) and could that be what DB is refering to that she is sure the boys heard something. THIS post just jogged my memory....I will try and find the history on my computer to get a source...if viable. But this leads me to think maybe JI saw the window open/broken in and went straight to DB - she is incherrent or foggy and turns to call 911 immediately (from his work phone?? Or did he go to call and noticed the cells gone after viewing the window and then called...BUT from the neighbor's phone correct?

Originally posted by silo13
reply to post by InsideOfItAll

 

And since she is a liar, why should we take anything she says as the truth?

Exactly. Her version of the night her DAUGHTER went MISSING has changed 6 times now.
I'm not saying her inability to keep a story straight (giving her the benefit of the doubt) or, her pathological lying (not giving her the benefit of the doubt) means she harmed her daughter - but she has lost all credibility. All of it. And I wouldn't hesitate to presume the police feel the same say. We all know how forgiving police are.

peace

As a mother ..... I feel if it were my daughter I would let them sleep with me if that meant they would focus on finding her if I had nothing to do with the incident. Her mannerisms, use of the english language. - pertaining to Lisa as she & her, their sister, NOT my daughter - my precious little girl - our love child....the last may be hokey but that is what Lisa was and if their relationship (JI & DB) were so strong and a very loving one you would state it not declare that the child is the cement that bonds the family together ( i believe her words). Just saying....from experience I have a love child and I am not married and I am not divorced from my ex. (because he wouldn't sign papers...thinking he could keep me from leaving....AND he was abusive.) I guess everyone reacts differently but she seems to hanging her head in shame or has been coached on how to be viewed - perception IS reality - right? I also feel if he were abusive that he would have different mannerisms...have more to say - the need for control...abusers do not sit on the sideline...their ego drives them to the forefront or at least to have a voice to be heard and usually attempting to be the voice of reason. I say that she is the abuser...look at her actions...getting sloshed while having supervision of her baby and two younger ones. Also she has a husband and does she live near the husband so that the son can see the father even if the father may not be prime fatherly material....it is important as parents to be there for their children in every way possible. It may not be a great life for her but when you have children - your life isn't yours - your life is the rearing of a child to become a respectable human being of society. Lastly....her mother had issues - whether she killed herself or not....she was an alcoholic and the disease has been proven to be genetic and by association. Look at a person's past and usually you can their future. Even functioning alcoholics aren't really focused on their children....they are self absorbed and only pretending for those closest to them - when perception is reality a drunk can't parent, be nuturing, loving, even tempered and logical.

Sorry to go so deep or more off on a tangent. I have a very similar past as DB as well as her current family structure the only difference is every move I make is for the betterment of my daughter of 3 yrs olld and was the same way with my 20 yr old. After me and my husband split - my only focus was being a parent. I did not date, nor did I party - have babysitters - etc - my sole purpose was to ensure she could see her father as often as she wanted and he could allow and that she had a very stable environment to thrive..

I feel that JI is a puppet of DB....therefore the infedelity statement may mean that possibly he was incinuating that she was a bad mother/partner and karma came to her house. Just my personal conceptions and opinion.

reply to post by mcsandy

Heresay.

Hearsay? Not really at all... The time of the call to dispatch is probably one of the only things we can nail down precisely.

As for two calls? The dispatcher doesn't report two calls, only (for whatever reason we still don't know) advised patrol officers the call came in as a robbery then quickly provided the information there was also a missing child.

One point I remember being very confusing at the beginning of all this is police alluding to a burglary call involving Jeremy. They didn't say if he called it in, or, if he was involved. It was very confusing. Anyway, I believe the confusion was due to a call Jeremy had made a week (or more) earlier involving an attempt break-in on his family vehicle.

Interesting enough - something I could never quite grasp in full - Deborah called the police back to the house a few days after Lisa went 'missing' - thinking the police might want to examine the 'cigarette butts' for fingerprints. She'd saved the ciggy-butts from around the place where the family vehicle was (supposedly) broken into.

Something still rings 'of' about that. Like... Someone's first attempt to take Lisa? Parents clocking the response time of the police in advance? So many possibilities to come up with based on that freakishness. But that's the problem - it's all supposition. For now.

[quote]Or did he go to call and noticed the cells gone after viewing the window and then called...BUT from the neighbor's phone correct?

It was reported Jeremy called 911 from his work cellphone he had in his pocket.

peace

Originally posted by silo13
Interesting enough - something I could never quite grasp in full - Deborah called the police back to the house a few days after Lisa went 'missing' - thinking the police might want to examine the 'cigarette butts' for fingerprints. She'd saved the ciggy-butts from around the place where the family vehicle was (supposedly) broken into.

Something still rings 'of' about that. Like... Someone's first attempt to take Lisa? Parents clocking the response time of the police in advance? So many possibilities to come up with based on that freakishness. But that's the problem - it's all supposition. For now.

Why would that be "off"? If you saw something that in some way, any way, could be connected to the disappearance, and you noticed that police hadn't collected it, wouldn't you call it to their attention? Or am I missing something from the account?

It seems like Deborah is darned if she does, and darned if she doesn't. If she hadn't called it to the policeman's attention, and it turned out to be relevant, would people be pointing the finger at her that she had been careless?

ETA: Maybe I'm missing something here because I don't understand the inference that they did it to clock the policemen's timing.

reply to post by Redux

If you saw something that in some way, any way, could be connected to the disappearance, and you noticed that police hadn't collected it, wouldn't you call it to their attention? Or am I missing something from the account?

Yes, you'd call their attention to it at the time - not save the 'evidence' in a paper bag and call the police back about it two weeks later.

Why would that be "off"?

One - It's 'off' to me because I don't know anyone that would pick up cigarette butts from around a family car after a break in and save them in a paper bag for two weeks.

Two - Why not turn them over at the time? That's called withholding evidence.

(and) Three - If the police didn't save them after investigating the beak in - why bother to save them at all?

Four - Why save them for 2 weeks and then... Yes, this is where the dog gets dizzy from chasing it's tail.

And by the by, I didn't blame Deborah for anything. I said I felt it was 'off'. For all we know Jeremy saved the 'butts' and it's all getting hung on Deborah for bringing it to the attention of the police.

ETA: Maybe I'm missing something here because I don't understand the inference that they did it to clock the policeman's timing.

I did not say they DID this. I stated possibilities. Very straightforward possibilities.

'Key' your car, make it look like a break in. Call the police. Check how long it takes them to respond.

What have you done? Forged a foundation for setting a case (later after your baby is gone) 'someone's' been 'staking out the house.' Or, a simple car break in led to something more (a kidnapping). Maybe you also know a local handyman has a history of breaking into cars...

Also, it would establish a rough ETA (estimated time of arrival) of the police when you call 911.

peace

Mike the 'motorcycle man' was quoted way back - in his own words on video - the baby was 'wearing a diaper'. NO mention of a shirt. He also stated he thought it was weird due to the weather etc. Yet now, miraculously the baby is wearing a shirt.

About him fingering 'Jersey'. No. He out and out said it was not and ruled out Jersey.

I'd hesitate to use anything Nancy Grace says as fact. Her first commentary (I posted here) was awash with bias and misinformation. She's also known to manipulate photos of her subjects - as she obviously did with Lisa - for shock appeal.

See this post: Notice the pictures before and after the pictures I posted are NOT manipulated. But these are.

www.abovetopsecret.com...


peace



Mike Thompson phoned into the Nancy Grace show with JVM hosting (since NG is dancing to win for and she questioned him about the baby and he DID say that the baby was wearing a t-shirt. I missed the entire phone interview - due to motherly duties, therefore I don't know what he said about Jersey Tanko....but the teaser earlier stated JVM was going to speak to him again regarding the photo line-up. I was going to look at the transcripts from the show of 11.2.11. As far as Nancy Grace...she is from my hometown and her family is well known and respected. They are devout christians and Nancy focuses on "victims" because of her past personal experience of her fiance being murdered. I don't think that it is true that she displays altered pictures purposely....who's to say her producers MAY have but she is an advocate of finding the truth and putting all the facts out there. Yes she may sensationalize but I don't think she plagiarized any info maliciously or for entertainment purposes. Her mother teaches piano to children and philanthropically devotes efforts to missing and disadvantaged children. NG is dancing for the National Center of Missing and Exploited Children. She s a past prosecutor as well so again I don't think she would knowing plagiarize any photography exploiting a child for her ratings and from a legal standpoint either....it is agains the law. AGAIN - My opinion; and yes I could be wrong.

Without "the talking heads" we the public really wouldn't know as much as we do because local stations would not have the resources or enough exposure in hopes to finding the missing and sheding the light on exploited and murdered children.

Originally posted by silo13
reply to post by Redux

 

If you saw something that in some way, any way, could be connected to the disappearance, and you noticed that police hadn't collected it, wouldn't you call it to their attention? Or am I missing something from the account?

Yes, you'd call their attention to it at the time - not save the 'evidence' in a paper bag and call the police back about it two weeks later.

See, that's why I said I must be missing something. I did not remember that from the original account (the fact that she kept it in a bag for two weeks and then showed it to police), and you didn't mention it in the post.

And by the by, I didn't blame Deborah for anything. I said I felt it was 'off'. For all we know Jeremy saved the 'butts' and it's all getting hung on Deborah for bringing it to the attention of the police.

I didn't say you did blame Deborah for anything. I said "people" would be pointing the finger whether she had called them back or had not called them back, not "you".

ETA: Maybe I'm missing something here because I don't understand the inference that they did it to clock the policeman's timing.

I did not say they DID this. I stated possibilities. Very straightforward possibilities.

That's why I said "inference" here, not that they had actually done it. I didn't understand your inference that there was something to be gained by clocking the policeman's timing at that point.


All I was trying to do was understand your post - that's why I clearly stated (twice) I might be missing something as I was trying to understand what was so suspicious about pointing out potential evidence to the police.

Originally posted by Dav1d
reply to post by mcsandy

 

What I was attempting to state is:
There are two people with an alias of Jersey, they have different given names. These two people are both in jail. One in federal, one in county. It is likely, the finger will be pointed at Tanko, by the defense, unless they do sufficient research. It's also possible that the finger will be point at him simply to create doubt.

As far as I am aware of the KCPD have been deligent as to not point the figure to anyone. Nor call anyone a person of interest. DB has said all along that she expects to be arrestted....I guess there is no need to labels because those that seem to be caught in the web that surrounds DB & JI and the neighborhood is pretty much self-explanatory. Implication without doctrination. The characters that are at play have every reason to looked as a "suspicious" person related to the case or neighborhood. I don't think it is fair to blatant state thay Jersey Tanko will be a fall guy. It seems the KCPD have a theory or theories....and until the have concrete evidence they are allowing the pieces to fall as they continue on their own legal path and maintaining the intergrity of a possible trial.

reply to post by mcsandy

Mike Thompson phoned into the Nancy Grace show with JVM hosting (since NG is dancing to win for and she questioned him about the baby and he DID say that the baby was wearing a t-shirt.

Yes, he did. Agreed. He changed his statement talking to NG. BUT - he did not tell the police the same story in his first account. He told them the baby was wearing a diaper.

Nancy Grace? She's ultimately responsible for what goes on under her 'name' on her show. Someone 'under her' does in fact manipulate photos. There's too much video proof not to 'see it with your own eyes'. If Nancy Grace doesn't know about it - she should. If she does know about it - she should put a stop to it. Did you see those photos I posted you a link about? You really think that's appropriate? To do that to photos of a missing 10 month old baby?

You've your right to Nancy Grace. I'm glad you're out there rooting for her. But facts are she does make money on sensationalism, she does 'HYPE it up' and she does distort facts. Maybe not on purpose (distorting facts) but even so it happens. All you have to do is listen to her interviews to hear it.

Honestly, didn't you cringe at all when she was talking about Deborah and she said 'Mom goes out and buys a BIG HONKIN' BOX A WINE' . NG doesn't hesitate to make inflammatory statements like that on a regular basis - and - No holds barred she demonizes Deborah at every turn. Just listen to her. It's disgusting. Sure, I'm mad at Deborah's irresponsibility but Nancy Grace is ready to burn her at the stake and doesn't even know if she's guilty or not.

Enough about Nancy Grace. Back to Lisa.

peace

Originally posted by silo13

What have you done? Forged a foundation for setting a case (later after your baby is gone) 'someone's' been 'staking out the house.' Or, a simple car break in led to something more (a kidnapping). Maybe you also know a local handyman has a history of breaking into cars...

Also, it would establish a rough ETA (estimated time of arrival) of the police when you call 911.

peace

edit on 3-11-2011 by silo13 because: extra

Hmmmmm....I'm sure most people know you and I rarely agree on this case...but you bringing up this point has my brain working a bit. I am of the mindset the parents had absolutely nothing to do with this case....that it is in fact an abduction. However...this scenario has not crossed my mind, an for some reason now rings true with me (as in...a very plausible/possible scenario).

So the parents know the local handyman's history and know he's all over the neighbourhood including squatting in an abandoned house. Perhaps....perhaps they even get into that house months or week before and place some diapers, wipes and men's clothing...

A few weeks before, set the stage for the handyman to be a possible person on their property breaking into a car. Even keeping cigarette butts (maybe they saw Jersey smoking these cigs and picked up the butts over the course of a few weeks so his DNA would be on them...also the idea that there was more than one cig. butt would show that the perpetrator of the car break-in was standing on their property for quite a while - perhaps casing the house for break in points??)

They then do whatever they did with Lisa ( )...use one of their phones to call MW's # (perhaps thinking it was Jersey's phone as that was the # he used for neighbours to get a hold of him to do yardwork) to link Jersey to the stolen cells/Baby Lisa.

Light the dumpster fire to either a)get rid of evidence or b)knowing he's a "firebug" point even more evidence his way. Then (perhaps Deborah's brother) dresses in white tshirt and parades a baby(or doll) around town making sure to be seen.

Wow....that's quite the conspiracy with a whole lot of maybes but I can't help but think it could happen. I'm not sure this family is this smart but hey, I've been fooled before. The only piece I still can't get is motive....and the gut feeling I have that the parents aren't involved.

Michelle

reply to post by silo13


Re: NG / JVM....yes I agree with you that she should know. The pics have looked different to me in various se tories...some she looks thinner more petite then in others she looks like she's had a growth spurt and her head has grown. And yes I agree about the different stories....the need to quantify and qualify points of view or angles under consideration got me carrieded away I guess you could say. My trigger was your telling me to stay away from the NG highlights....and yes...back to Lisa.....

Originally posted by silo13
Honestly, didn't you cringe at all when she was talking about Deborah and she said 'Mom goes out and buys a BIG HONKIN' BOX A WINE' . NG doesn't hesitate to make inflammatory statements like that on a regular basis - and - No holds barred she demonizes Deborah at every turn. Just listen to her. It's disgusting. Sure, I'm mad at Deborah's irresponsibility but Nancy Grace is ready to burn her at the stake and doesn't even know if she's guilty or not.

Enough about Nancy Grace. Back to Lisa.

peace

edit on 3-11-2011 by silo13 because: quick bbc fix

Oh good lord...I think it was also NG that started out a segment with "SO...while mom was CHUG A LUGGING her 10 glasses of wine...."

So much for media being unbiased. How's that for setting the country on one side of the other. She's clearly made her mind up and should no longer be presenting this case to the public.

Michelle

Originally posted by silo13
reply to post by mcsandy

 

Heresay.

Hearsay? Not really at all... The time of the call to dispatch is probably one of the only things we can nail down precisely.

As for two calls? The dispatcher doesn't report two calls, only (for whatever reason we still don't know) advised patrol officers the call came in as a robbery then quickly provided the information there was also a missing child.

One point I remember being very confusing at the beginning of all this is police alluding to a burglary call involving Jeremy. They didn't say if he called it in, or, if he was involved. It was very confusing. Anyway, I believe the confusion was due to a call Jeremy had made a week (or more) earlier involving an attempt break-in on his family vehicle.

Interesting enough - something I could never quite grasp in full - Deborah called the police back to the house a few days after Lisa went 'missing' - thinking the police might want to examine the 'cigarette butts' for fingerprints. She'd saved the ciggy-butts from around the place where the family vehicle was (supposedly) broken into.

Something still rings 'of' about that. Like... Someone's first attempt to take Lisa? Parents clocking the response time of the police in advance? So many possibilities to come up with based on that freakishness. But that's the problem - it's all supposition. For now.

[quote]Or did he go to call and noticed the cells gone after viewing the window and then called...BUT from the neighbor's phone correct?

It was reported Jeremy called 911 from his work cellphone he had in his pocket.

peace



HA!!! laughing...so hard to portray a point at times without a discertaion. I meant that what I was about to post was heresay!!
I did not know that the burglary call was a week earlier...l missed that. BUT interesting indeed.

Could there have been a gps there in the family car? Could DB have seen the ad on craigslist about the gps for sale and wanted to find out if theirs was one - so she wrote number down for JI to call later? Or if it was an attempted break-in maybe they ran into Jersey, got to know him - either DB really got to know him or JI and DB met him. They become friendly and Jersey brings Megan (Megan might stay outside waiting and smoking) while Jersey goes in to show gps for DB & JI to purchase. Maybe Megan has already met them and they have partied together. Jersey may end up at DB's while JI is at work with some party fairs and while Megan isn't around and party of 2 commences. DB gets close to Jersey and he tells her what he has been doing - how he is surviving by stealing. Maybe Jersey, DB & JI get together to create a scheme of their own - they realize this could be an ave to persue in efforts to "earn" more money. Hatching a plan to test the cops respond time in the neighborhood; so they can target homes in and around their neighborhood. To either break into cars or maybe go to next level and break into homes since JI is an electrician; he can disconnect and reconnect alarms - possible that is what he does for a living. Since he was at Starbucks. Could JI become a benefactor to the slum house because they are dealing drugs and doing petty theft and Megan may be the post ad answer ad girl for the stolen items. Could DB as well as JI, Jersey Tanko, Megan and Brando have gathered to plan a heist - since they are all in financial straits and with Jeremy they can target something bigger. Break into someone's home to take electronics where they would sell online and split monies or maybe a business with lots of tvs. JI has the know how and bus connections from past jobs as an electrician - Jersey does the deed - because Jersey is scoping out the neighbors to see who's who and has what by doing handy man / hunny do list jobs to make money so he is trusted or maybe becomes a familar face to neighbors. Once they make a break-in maybe Megan posts the ads and becomes the contact - they use a burner phone just for this purpose. They all have them....hence the 3 that DB & JI say were stolen. Who has 3 phones and none work actually who has 3 phones at one time? You can exhange data via sim card very easily and quickly. Are the phones inoperable because there wasn't a job in play or maybe they have prepaid time cards to use as needed. All cells can call 911 without any phone time, minutes or event disconnects of non-payment can still call 911. Going with the thug theorgy could there have been a gathering to plan a job? Maybe he is suppose to return with info from Starbucks and whatever is near; but gets tied with mecanical issues. cont'd