Lisa Irwin - Missing - One Year Later

Kansas City, Mo. — The local attorney for the parents of a missing Kansas City baby says she has left the case after a disagreement with another lawyer for the couple. Kansas City attorney Cyndy Short told reporters Monday that she differed with New York attorney Joe Tacopina on their goals and approach to the case and that "one of us had to go." That someone, Short said, was her. The two had been representing parents Jeremy Irwin and Deborah Bradley, who say someone must have snatched their baby girl Lisa Irwin in the middle of the night as the mom and two other boys slept. The girl was 10 months old when she was reported missing on Oct. 4, and police say they have no suspects.

Link

Originally posted by Morningglory
reply to post by wildtimes

 

WHY DO THEY NEED AN ATTORNEY at alll??

Can't remember where I read it, I think it was a local KC station, anyway this legal adviser said when the questioning turns accusatory you need to shut up and lawyer up.

As a layman it would be hard to answer LE's questions without inadvertently implicating yourself. LE is extremely good at word play...what you say might help the investigation but it can also be used against you.

As soon as LE says "you did it" guilty or not you need legal advice to help you proceed. When LE gets frustrated they can get a little creative and start grasping at straws. Retaining an attorney is about damage control and helping everyday people muddle through the legal system.

You make a good point. If I was questioned and also told I failed a polygraph (read that way back in the thread) I would probably want to get a lawyer asap just to make sure I did not say something that could be taken differently. Like in the movie My Cousin Vinney when the police have Ralph in questioning him, the police state you killed the clerk. Ralph says back multiple times, I killed the clerk. The police take it as a confession, Ralph meant it as a question. I could be wrong with names and such but I hope you get the meaning.

I do think wildtimes has a valid point as to why hire an out of state lawyer. I never heard of this lawyer before this thread was put up (I did not follow the Casey Anthony case verbatim in the news). I would think the first lawyer I would get was local and someone familiar with all the people in the town/city. Maybe the person(s) paying for the lawyer, if they believe the family is innocent, wanted to try to get the best one out there for this type of case. Maybe they followed the Casey Anthony story and thought he would help them more than a local. We will probably never know who paid for the lawyer as it is between them, but still interesting.

IWOH

reply to post by IwasOnceHappy

I would think the first lawyer I would get was local and someone familiar with all the people in the town/city.

That's my point as well. Yes, I understand that zipping it under an attorney's advisement is probably safer than thinking one can deflect their more inflamatory lines of questioning. HOWEVER, if you did NOTHING WRONG, and wanted an attorney to help you navigate the system, why choose someone who's not even licensed in the STATE, let alone unheard of here.

Why a "world-class" NYC Homicide Defense lawyer? Why a NYC bodyguard?
There are perfectly competent and experienced attorneys in this city. If I were to find myself in this horror of a situation, I would tell NYC to MYOB. This is Kansas City. I doubt either of them had even been here before!!

There are also plenty of very large persons who would be capable of "bodyguard"ing them. It just makes it look like they MUST ANTICIPATE they will NEED the biggest hired guns they can get.

And the refusal to allow the kids to be interviewed? The silence to local media? The disappearing act? The entire city is aware of this case, and frustrated with its stalled progress.

I don't imagine the local PD (save it, Dav1d, I'm weary of your bashing them according to biased reporters and your staunch refusal to acknowledge my previous points on that one) appreciate having some out-pf-town hotshots who no doubt look down their noses at ALL of the residents of this city...like most people who have never been here and have predetermined opinions about "us" (even here on ATS, I see it all the time. Ignorant hayseeds, you know, we ride cows to school, can't tell the diff between an F15 and a police chopper, must all be on dial-up, etc etc -- all ignorant, arrogant drivel).

Were it my nightmare, I would ask the FBI to move into my HOME, and to have a police presence at ALL TIMES outside my door!
I would tell the media to sod off, and I would be out looking for my child.

But, some people are fine with the new hairdo, the pre-fame bigshot representatives, the GMA interviews, and all that. Bullcrap. Plain and simple is they have not cooperated with media or police, they have obfuscated the investigation, they have shown inappropriate responses to the situation. The public is NOT to blame, or the PD, for this couple's behavior, their national media interviews, or their mega-weapon "defense" team choice. Pre-emptive defense, anyone??

And in ANY case,
if the police WERE to try to get a "false confession" via intimidation or browbeating or tricky language, THEN would be the time to hire an attorney, and a damned experienced LOCAL one, who could then refer one to someone familiar with the LOCAL system and laws and personalities. It isn't that big of a city.

Not BEFORE any charges are even filed! They aren't even suspects! (yeah, right, like I believe that!)

Which is the point. If you are a bereft parent, and not a suspect, why on EARTH would you want these criminal defense guys walking around with you??

reply to post by wildtimes

It occurs to me that having these HotShots from NYC on the case has been, in fact, a detriment to these people. If Taco wants them to be treated fairly, and not raked over the public bloodthirst coals, WHY is he being so outspoken?

It's who he 'is'. take a look at some of the people he's...defended. And normally I wouldn't wonder so much but I open my ears and listen hard when you post. YOU are THERE - you are in the 'know' and your posts are very grounded. Good insight that.

WHY do they need Stanton to be their "spokesperson" and "bodyguard".??? Why can't they use a local attorney, and again, WHY DO THEY NEED AN ATTORNEY at alll??

It's my understanding they need a local attorney because Tacopina for all his - worth - has never passed the bar/isn't registered to practice in that State. That must make him squirm at night.

Especially a criminal defense attorney who specializes in homicides? WHY??

I think he realized that mistake after the fact? Maybe???

And if he's such a "victim advocate" here, why is he not running the show QUIETLY??

Exactly. Why the whoop-la and woop-dee-doo? Just inform the media what you want them to know and any more than that keep quiet.

There was no reason whatsoever that the world needed to know he is representing the Ir-Dleys. No reason they would need a media hound bodyguard former NYC bouncer and cop. We are NOT in NYC. We are not even in the same league as NYC, in terms of size, culture, population...
So, WHY?? Why them??

Sensationalism. Effect. Notoriety. Shock value. Need I go on.

peace

Originally posted by wildtimes
reply to post by IwasOnceHappy

 

I would think the first lawyer I would get was local and someone familiar with all the people in the town/city.

That's my point as well. Yes, I understand that zipping it under an attorney's advisement is probably safer than thinking one can deflect their more inflamatory lines of questioning. HOWEVER, if you did NOTHING WRONG, and wanted an attorney to help you navigate the system, why choose someone who's not even licensed in the STATE, let alone unheard of here.

Why a "world-class" NYC Homicide Defense lawyer? Why a NYC bodyguard?
There are perfectly competent and experienced attorneys in this city. If I were to find myself in this horror of a situation, I would tell NYC to MYOB. This is Kansas City. I doubt either of them had even been here before!!

Perhaps because they are very good, and they are "free" in the sense that you are not directly paying them with your own money.

There are also plenty of very large persons who would be capable of "bodyguard"ing them. It just makes it look like they MUST ANTICIPATE they will NEED the biggest hired guns they can get.

And the refusal to allow the kids to be interviewed? The silence to local media? The disappearing act? The entire city is aware of this case, and frustrated with its stalled progress.

So what if fox is paying for the lawyer, and the lawyer for the bodyguard? Who owns the fox network? Newscorp I believe, who controls newscorp? A certain mr. M

Who might like a little diversion in the media about now? A certain Mr. M, perhaps?

Which major media, just got into trouble in England, and for what?

Would such a major media outlet prefer to limit access to Deborah and Jeremy?

I don't imagine the local PD (save it, Dav1d, I'm weary of your bashing them according to biased reporters and your staunch refusal to acknowledge my previous points on that one) appreciate having some out-pf-town hotshots who no doubt look down their noses at ALL of the residents of this city...like most people who have never been here and have predetermined opinions about "us" (even here on ATS, I see it all the time. Ignorant hayseeds, you know, we ride cows to school, can't tell the diff between an F15 and a police chopper, must all be on dial-up, etc etc -- all ignorant, arrogant drivel).

Is the KCPD really interested in finding little Lisa, or are they interested in one of theirs finding little Lisa? The chief of police acknowledges that the KCPD is arrogrant, and it is a problem. Is the idea that a $1000 from the KCPD just as good, and perhaps even better than a $100,000 arrogrant?

If I've not addressed your points please repost them. I'll try again.

Were it my nightmare, I would ask the FBI to move into my HOME, and to have a police presence at ALL TIMES outside my door!

Easy to claim knowing the FBI doesn't work that way.
And so if you where told not to go near any potential crime scene you would ignore it, and interfere with a police invistigation?

I would tell the media to sod off, and I would be out looking for my child.

But, some people are fine with the new hairdo, the pre-fame bigshot representatives, the GMA interviews, and all that. Bullcrap. Plain and simple is they have not cooperated with media or police, they have obfuscated the investigation, they have shown inappropriate responses to the situation. The public is NOT to blame, or the PD, for this couple's behavior, their national media interviews, or their mega-weapon "defense" team choice. Pre-emptive defense, anyone??

Of course you also would not cooperate with the police by your presence at the potential crime scene. We must remember that the KCPD likes to check the same sites over and over....

And in ANY case,
if the police WERE to try to get a "false confession" via intimidation or browbeating or tricky language, THEN would be the time to hire an attorney, and a damned experienced LOCAL one, who could then refer one to someone familiar with the LOCAL system and laws and personalities. It isn't that big of a city.

Like when the KCPD tells you that YOU killed your daughter?
Guess what they and I agree with this, and they did.

Not BEFORE any charges are even filed! They aren't even suspects! (yeah, right, like I believe that!)

Clearly you can't make up your mind.
Which is it, when the police first accuse you of killing your child, would you get a lawyer then! Or would you continue to talk to the police, knowing that ANYTHING you SAY can be used against you?

Which is the point. If you are a bereft parent, and not a suspect, why on EARTH would you want these criminal defense guys walking around with you??

Let's see because you have two other children that you care about?

reply to post by IwasOnceHappy

Maybe the person(s) paying for the lawyer, if they believe the family is innocent, wanted to try to get the best one out there for this type of case. Maybe they followed the Casey Anthony story and thought he would help them more than a local. We will probably never know who paid for the lawyer as it is between them, but still interesting.

People who have a great deal of money usually have a great many advisers.
People who have a great deal of money also know what to invest in, and what not to.
People who have a great deal of money are (as a rule) always ready to make more.
It's not often people with money do anything (it can be generalized) without looking into future gains. If they didn't do this they wouldn't have a great deal of money now would they?
So, yes, people who are loaded are more often than not (if they didn't just win the lottery) visionaries.

It's not a hard stretch to imagine the 'benefactor' to this case - is loaded. Paying Tapioca - oops, I mean Tacopina $750 an house plus.

I wouldn't doubt it or a moment the 'benefactor' knows the long term monetary 'benefit' to a case like this.

And if not? If the 'benefactor' is geared to help financially solely for Lisa? You can bet her 'advisers' are doing their job reminding her it's not a bad investment at all. From any angle you look at it.

peace

reply to post by wildtimes

It just makes it look like they MUST ANTICIPATE they will NEED the biggest hired guns they can get.

Or, vulgarly put? They know these names sell.

Sick to think about but oh so true.

peace

reply to post by Dav1d


Here’s something for you David. I know you’re down on the cops. So, what, if anything do you make of this?

Cop Shop: Relatives pray for missing Missouri girl

The heart-breaking ordeal involving a missing 10-month-old Kansas City, Mo., girl is weighing especially heavy on the minds of relatives here in Delaware County.

Deborah Netz Bradley, the mother of baby Lisa, is a second cousin to Donna Pretti, an investigator for the Delaware County Medical Examiner’s office, and Eddystone Patrolman Joseph Pretti. Donna and Joe are first cousins.

peace

I'll list some links and info about Short and Tacopina after my dinner. I really don't want to get any more nauseated at the moment.

What hypocrites. Tacopina and Short go on and on an on about the details of their falling out - barely mention Lisa - but then turn and admonish the media for being too intrusive when they are manipulating the media and making it 'all about them' instead of Lisa!

Unbelievable.

reply to post by Dav1d


*sigh*
Dav1d.
Dav1d, Dav1d, Dav1d.

I am bewildered by your tactics here.
I don't even think we disagree, aside from the fact that you have decided that the KCPD is incompetent. I don't argue against your idea that Mr M is possibly responsible for the media attention. It very well could be the case.

With you, my beef is that
A) you don't know anything about Kansas City aside from what you've "acquired" in this case, and
B) you have chosen to be the "Police Suck!" spokesman here.

Which I don't get. But, since you've convinced yourself that the KCPD does suck, there's no point in my trying again to help you get the context of the new chief's remarks that you have repeatedly, um...repeated.

You made remarks about them thinking the baby is "white trash". Where on earth did you get that?
You've said they have only 1/4 of the force out doing what some other PD did for someone else, so that makes them sucky. You've presented time and again that the police will try to put words in the mouth of someone they want to "pin" the case on.

If that's what you think, no amount of my countering your opinions is going to work. You apparently also think there are hundreds or thousands of taxis ripping around this city. Okay, fine. Believe what you want.

They did NOT extract a confession from D Bradley. They may have said she "failed" a polygraph, that they "know" she did it, but she has NOT CONFESSED to it. And she nas NOT BEEN CHARGED with it.

So, WHY does she need some east-coast woowoo "i-can-get-anyone-off" lawyer?
So someone hired him. Can she not tell him to get lost?

I'm almost ready to give up on even contemplating this whole case...except
wait....
THERE IS A BABY MISSING!!

Oh my goodness! Oh dear! A BABY is missing!

I honestly don't know what your connections or real-life experience is with FBI or LEO, but given what I believe about them, I would ask them to station someone in my home ANYWAY, even if they "don't work that way." I would ask them to tear my house down to cubic centimeters of materials if they needed to to CLEAR my name. I would call the cell-phone service myself, and say "What number called my phone on the night of Oct 3?".
Oh.
Wait.
I can just look that up on my computer....."view recent activity".

Nor did I suggest that she "foul" the crime scene or search areas. If my child were missing, I would be going door to door asking anyone "have you seen this child?"
How is that "tampering" with a crime scene?

Ughghh.

I have NOT made up my mind, you are spot on with that call. I just know what actions I THINK I might take in these circumstances. And getting a makeover and refusing to talk to media are not two of them. Allowing some courtroom thug and a NYC bodyguard to be involved is another. Although, ironically enough, last year I learned that if a couple will go on the "Jerry Springer" show, they'll fly you to their studio, put you in a hotel, and the woman gets a free makeover and the guy gets a carton of cigarettes.
I KID YOU NOT.

peace, brother.

reply to post by wildtimes



You can say all you want... what you would do wildtimes...but until you are in that situation, and you have been treated like the criminal because your child is missing..then its all just a big bag of hot air.

You have no idea how they questioned those two parents for 11 hours the first time, and what they said and did, including the lies they used to manipulate.

So until you are in there exact same position .. you can spout off all the stuff you would do.. like all of us can...but it means nothing..NOTHING.. because you are just an outsider looking in.

reply to post by silo13


Honestly just how smart do you believe Deborah and Jeremy to be?

How many cellphone service providers are there in that area? How good is the cellphone service where Deborah and Jeremy live, and where Jeremy works?

Hmmm thinking, what if you know there will be an investigation...
You like in an area that has good cellphone service on provider "A" but bad on "B"
You work in an area that has poor cellphone service on provider "A" but good on "B"
The cost of data on provider "A" and "B" is high, but on provider "D" you can get unlimited data...

Often one has a phone for "A", "B", and "D"
Are you still with me?
So you acknowledge provider "A" and ***focus attention on it*** and simply don't mention provider "B" or "D"
Now if provider "D" is only used for data, you have access to a safe phone....
Do you hear what I'm suggesting here?
If you have a "lazy" police department they don't check all the providers, because they ***know*** the cellphone number(s).... I mean they are already "focused" on recovery of the phones....

What do you think?
You call your friend, the *bad cop* and scream "help" I just killed my kid what do I do?
Who knows how a copy's mind works better than a cop...
Maybe just by chance the *bad cop's* phone is on provider "D" and can talk to you for free on "D"...
Maybe the *bad cop* even provided the "D" phone....

reply to post by Dav1d


This city has ample coverage from any of SEVERAL cellphone service providers.
Once again, putting your opinions of KC where they don't belong and have no firsthand knowledge.

reply to post by wildtimes

Which is the point. If you are a bereft parent, and not a suspect, why on EARTH would you want these criminal defense guys walking around with you??

If I were a bereft parent I'd probably go into shock and run on auto-pilot. I know my family would come in to help. If at the same time I'm confronted with a legal emergency I see no harm in obtaining "legal help." Attorneys will walk you through the process when maybe you can't do it alone. A good attorney will also suggest that you tell the truth and do the right thing.

The fact they've chosen a criminal attorney is because whatever charges do come down will most likely be criminal in nature. I think Deborah has stated a time or two she feared she could be arrested.

if the police WERE to try to get a "false confession" via intimidation or browbeating or tricky language, THEN would be the time to hire an attorney

The only problem I see with that is LE isn't going to say in advance if their main objective is extracting a "false confession." You go in without representation they feel a bit braver in pushing harder..damage done and you never saw it coming. Not only do attorneys advise you they make sure investigative/legal proceedings stay within the law. Imo I think that's good for the innocent as well as the guilty.

reply to post by silo13


Did you hear about the Dead Baby they found in I think an abandoned home in Joplin? The local news said they would cover the story at 5. Although the first thing that came to mind was Baby Lisa, I doubt it is her or the media would be swarming like a sharks with breaking coverage, but still had to ask if you have heard.

Ok just googled it and here is what I found:

Baby Found Dead In Home At Joplin
Saturday, October 29, 2011

Police in Joplin are trying to figure out how a baby died in a home on Pennsylvania Street.

Officers were called to the home in the 1300 block where they found the child, who was 18-months-old.

The child's name and other details are not being released until other family members have been notified that the baby has died.

Police also say they want to look at all the pieces of evidence until they are certain they have a clear picture of what happened.

www.ktts.com...

Originally posted by wildtimes
reply to post by Dav1d

 

*sigh*
Dav1d.
Dav1d, Dav1d, Dav1d.

I am bewildered by your tactics here.
I don't even think we disagree, aside from the fact that you have decided that the KCPD is incompetent. I don't argue against your idea that Mr M is possibly responsible for the media attention. It very well could be the case.

With you, my beef is that
A) you don't know anything about Kansas City aside from what you've "acquired" in this case, and
B) you have chosen to be the "Police Suck!" spokesman here.

Which I don't get. But, since you've convinced yourself that the KCPD does suck, there's no point in my trying again to help you get the context of the new chief's remarks that you have repeatedly, um...repeated.

You made remarks about them thinking the baby is "white trash". Where on earth did you get that?
You've said they have only 1/4 of the force out doing what some other PD did for someone else, so that makes them sucky. You've presented time and again that the police will try to put words in the mouth of someone they want to "pin" the case on.

If that's what you think, no amount of my countering your opinions is going to work. You apparently also think there are hundreds or thousands of taxis ripping around this city. Okay, fine. Believe what you want.

I've created this [url=http://www.abovetopsecret.com/forum/thread770440/pg1]> Police Chief Darryl Forté

reply to post by antar

Oh no! NOOOO!
Lisa or no that's just so sad. I hadn't heard I'm pretty sick at the moment having a hard time staying on top of things.
*****

I'll go look and see what I can find.

Thank you for the info.

I see now you have a link - I started to run off without checking the other messages.

I'll have to look on a map and see how close this is to Lisa. I so hope this isn't some how connected.

ADDED NOTE: On another note:

For whatever reason it gave me (personally) a lot of confidence Lisa is still alive after hearing Short say she really believes this in an abduction case. I hope I'm not just grasping at emotional straws - considering earlier I was (and still am at some level) convinced her office has been involved in a lot of damage control lately.

peace

Originally posted by silo13
reply to post by antar

 

Oh no! NOOOO!
Lisa or no that's just so sad. I hadn't heard I'm pretty sick at the moment having a hard time staying on top of things.

*****

I'll go look and see what I can find.

Thank you for the info.

I see now you have a link - I started to run off without checking the other messages.

I'll have to look on a map and see how close this is to Lisa. I so hope this isn't some how connected.

ADDED NOTE: On another note:

For whatever reason it gave me (personally) a lot of confidence Lisa is still alive after hearing Short say she really believes this in an abduction case. I hope I'm not just grasping at emotional straws - considering earlier I was (and still am at some level) convinced her office has been involved in a lot of damage control lately.

peace

edit on 31-10-2011 by silo13 because: (no reason given)

I agree with you here on this one. The fact that Short feels it's an abduction did give me a stronger feeling as well that the parents weren't involved (which gives us at least a better chance at that baby being alive). As an attorney I'd think (hope) she has developed a good sense of character and judge of whether or not they're lying. Something none of us can claim as we haven't sat and talked to them first hand. I will continue to hope and pray she is safe and unharmed.

Michelle

Originally posted by wildtimes
reply to post by Dav1d

 

*sigh*
Dav1d.
Dav1d, Dav1d, Dav1d.

I am bewildered by your tactics here.
I don't even think we disagree, aside from the fact that you have decided that the KCPD is incompetent. I don't argue against your idea that Mr M is possibly responsible for the media attention. It very well could be the case.

With you, my beef is that
A) you don't know anything about Kansas City aside from what you've "acquired" in this case, and
B) you have chosen to be the "Police Suck!" spokesman here.

You made remarks about them thinking the baby is "white trash". Where on earth did you get that?
You've said they have only 1/4 of the force out doing what some other PD did for someone else, so that makes them sucky. You've presented time and again that the police will try to put words in the mouth of someone they want to "pin" the case on.

I think to be fair most of us in this thread have speculated, thrown out possible scenarios or asked questions that might plague us...yourself included (below)

Hmmm. Okay, giving Dad time to do...what, exactly? Wash out the wine glasses for her? Get rid of the phones? Give the boys a heads up? Just speculating. What was happening at home while she was out getting her party supplies?

Flames shooting up? Wouldn't that happen if a BATTERY was blown up, maybe? A cellular phone battery, or three? And combined with an empty wine box? Which may or may not have been refilled with other things like clothing?

I don't know that I agree with David entirely in his line of thinking...but I am open minded enough to allow for many possibilities in this thread, including that the police have dropped the ball, the parents are responsible, or this is an abduction. Sometimes we get heated and passionate thinking OUR way of thinking is the only right way but that isn't necessarily so. I don't have to defend David as he seems to be very well spoken and thoughtful in his input, but I have to wonder why at this point in the thread people are still getting upset over someone with a different line of thinking. (I myself have been guilty of this so don't think I'm picking on you specifically wildtimes)

It's obvious (to me at least) that you take David's feeling about the KCPD personally because you live there...but he's as entitled to his opinion as the rest of us in this thread. I don't agree with lying, adding text or misconstruing/confusing the reports we're getting...but I have had to get over the fact that not everyone agrees with my point of view which is that the parents are innocent.

Like you said a baby is missing...and all of us have become quite passionate in our own feelings for this case, child, family, city, police department. It's so hard in this case to not become aggressive and angry....I can't imagine how the parents are feeling at this point if WE are all this crazy over it

Michelle