Lisa Irwin - Missing - One Year Later

Originally posted by AuntB
Gabby, I asked if you knew Deborah cause you called her Debbie and kept saying she was an alcoholic. I asked to know, not to be catty. Do I think the mother is an alcoholic? I don't know, all I know is Deborah likes her adult time. That is what I know, those were her words.

Now regarding this debate rather dead then abused, I don't really care for it. The only abuse I see regarding this case, is baby Lisa was probably neglected while Mommy was having adult time. If Lisa had been sexually abused, when they get her back, she will be thoroughly examined and it will be known then. If she was, healing time etc... will factor and she may not go home.

Sorry if I didn't understand why you asked.. because others called her Debbie, and it was others who referred to her as an alcoholic.. I'm not sure if she is an alcoholic.. but I said that because it has been implied here.. so even if she was.. I don't assume it makes her guilty of harming her child.

Enough said. I’ll no longer debate with someone who's (in my opinion) who’s reasoning is far too handicapped by some twisted sense of ‘love’ for me to continue to try and reason with.

Peace to you... I’m done here...

edit on 25-10-2011 by silo13 because: bbc and spelling

Just because someone's thoughts, ideas and belief system differs from ours does not make their reasoning handicapped or them twisted. This is the main problem in not only this thread, but out in the world. We all walk around thinking we're the "normal" ones and with closed mind can't accept anything else but our own ideals. People need to WAKE up and realize that not the whole world was brought up in the same environment with the same morals, values, or ideals and the world will always be that way so get over it.

In regards to this case specifically, I don't have a problem with any parent drinking with children in their care. I've grown up in a family, community, circle of friends where that is quite normal. Blacking out drunk with kids in care? NO..but drinking and even getting drunk after kids are in bed is not completely out of the norm. There have been several occasions over the years where I have girlfriends over and we sit on the patio with wine/beer/drinks and have "adult time" after mine or their kids are down for the evening. Is it because I'm a bad parent, make bad choices, a bad person. I don't think so, but you may. And that doesn't make either one of us right or wrong. It makes us DIFFERENT...which my friend makes the world go 'round.

Michelle

Originally posted by schmae


What do you make of the inconsistencies and things that do not add up? You think they are nothing and mean nothing? If so that's fair and that's your opinion . I for ONE hope you are right and that mom is innocent because then baby Lisa is out there. I for one hope Lisa is found ALIVE no matter what she's been through.

Let me ask you this question, you report your child missing. You've drunk too much and passed out, you awake to find your child gone....

Under those conditions how much meaningful information do you actually have? How long, time wise would it take you to tell it? 5 minutes? Ten minutes? Is it possible that upon being hounded, that your mind might start to play tricks on you? That you might to start playing the what if game? Or the only if I had game? To wonder if you really have done X? I'm not a drinker, yet there are days when I'm not sure if I've taken my vitamins. After going over the same facts, countless times and being told your not being helpful ~ to just state it in another way. And the damn for doing that. To desire to get out there and look for your child, yet be accused of not cooperating if you don't keep yourself available to answer the same questions over and over?

reply to post by gabby2011


your comments are offensive, especially in stating some of the possibilities.

sheesh.

Originally posted by gabby2011

Originally posted by AuntB
Gabby2011- I noticed you call the mother Debbie. Do you know her? All the writings and articles I have read she is called Deborah.

I call her Debbie because I have seen her addressed this way on this thread.

I suppose now I will be 'accused" of knowing her..from the keyboard cops..

Why don't you read the posts.. there are a few who have referred to her as "Debbie"..

(your post is a small example of the accusations and assumptions made over very frivo:dnlous things)

edit on 25-10-2011 by gabby2011 because: (no reason given)

pfft. Get over yourself. Try to debate the matter at hand without being defensive; without assuming every member responding or discussing an issue is attacking you.

AuntB's post pointed out an error with the name and yet you ran off with it and loaded it up with more of your 'everyone is having a go at me' attitude.

Back on Topic......

I posted a question earlier and it may have been overlooked?

I feel the media involvement now is quite odd. The media are releasing incorrect information... why?

Perhaps it is evolving just like the Parent's version of events? Could the media hinder the police investigation?

Originally posted by Thurisaz
Back on Topic......

I posted a question earlier and it may have been overlooked?

I feel the media involvement now is quite odd. The media are releasing incorrect information... why?

Perhaps it is evolving just like the Parent's version of events? Could the media hinder the police investigation?

So can you give me an example, of what you are talking about? I believe for the most part, the media and law enforcement work together, that they need one another? I posted an example of this earlier today, were the wording of the search warrant application, and just whom applied for it seems odd, to me. Yet none in the media that I'm aware of has chosen to report on this oddity... I feel a good lawyer could get the justification for the search warrant thrown out.... The media silence in this area, makes for interesting news today, but at the risk of having a significant amount of evidence thrown out later. But the media is not truly concern about justice, is it?

Here's another interesting news article....

Missing Baby Lisa Irwin: Police have 'tough questions' for parents


A quote from that article....(the bold is done by me)

Mike Thompson, the witness who claims he saw a man carrying a baby on the side of the road around 4 a.m. the night Lisa disappeared told ABC News police questioned him again on Monday. "Yesterday they showed me a paper with six pictures on it," Thompson said. "And I picked out the man they had been showing pictures of." The man in the photograph has been questioned by the police several times, but the other witnesses, a couple who live three houses down from the Irwin house, said the photo did not match the man they say they saw with a baby the night Lisa disappeared.

So there is a man that has been interviewed that at least one witness is placing with a baby on the night in question! I wonder if this Mike Thompson is full of it, or completely truthful? I wonder who that man is?

On the rest of the article...I think the police request for separate parent interviews with tough questions is absolutely not too much to ask and probably should have been done a long time ago. I do feel for the parents fears and concerns over being accused, and it wouldn't be the first time an innocent person has paid the price for someone else's wrongdoing (not saying either parent is or isn't innocent)...but at some point they need to answer these tough questions to perhaps get more information out. The case is somewhat stalled at this point with any 'evidence' not giving the police anything more to go on

Michelle

Michelle

reply to post by Thurisaz

pfft. Get over yourself. Try to debate the matter at hand without being defensive; without assuming every member responding or discussing an issue is attacking you.

I've addressed the posts that were attacking me, and if you knew the posts well enough..you would clearly see that.

your comments are offensive, especially in stating some of the possibilities.

In stating those possibilities , I was trying to point out why some parents may very well be relieved to hear their abducted child has been found.. though maybe found dead. You see..if you had read the posts more carefully you would have seen I was under attack and accused of being crazy, and twisted for thinking this way.

I'm sorry if the reality of what exists out there offends you.. but the possibilities and reasons why someone might abduct a child do include those realities.. as ugly as it may be.

Who ever you think you are..you need to get over yourself, and understand a little more about what has been exchanged in a thread before you tell people to get over themselves...and start speaking out like you're an authority on the why and how things have been said.

I find that offensive..

reply to post by Thurisaz


Hey , which false info do you mean? And the idea they keep replaying this fuzzy grainy video of 'man coming out of woods' without any of them mentioning they can't see ANY thing at all in it is odd. I look at that and say WHAT? But the reporters smile and say " is this man Lisa's abductor? ". I cant' even tell it's human really.
I don't know what the media is up to but I feel they are talking about it a little less and that may be because of law enforcement asking them to withhold things. I hope that is why and not because a newer news story is becoming more 'fashionable' .

reply to post by schmae
I agree schmae, I don't really see a person either but they are the experts. Now regarding the neighbor that saw a man carrying a baby was it really a baby? Could it have been a small dog? Like a small pug dog with a big white spot. I can see someone out walking their dog at night then picking the dog up and carrying it home. I can't see someone stealing a baby and blatantly carrying it down the street. Lisa is small enough to fit into a duffel bag or backpack.

I don't know if the media is saying misinformation because I am not seeing much new information. Maybe because the news is desperate they are changing the wordings and putting slants on the story to keep it alive.

I have a small question.

When the father came home that night, and the door was unlocked and lights were on, WHERE was Debbie?

I have never heard where she was, was she passed out? Sitting on the couch smoking a cig? I just want to know.

reply to post by berkeleygal


What I heard was she was in their bed. Sleeping

Originally posted by schmae
reply to post by redhorse

 

Most of the 'attacks' come in the form of new headline, mom said this or that,,, and we comment on it, USUALLY the comments are like what is she thinking? does this mean anything? etc etc..... I don't know about
attacks . Maybe I don't see an attack in the same way. I don't say anyone really saying lock her up and throw away the key or EVEN take her other kid from her , shes' a horrible mom. I havent' seen that kind of attack.

Really. Then you should reread the thread. I have seen character crucifixion that attacks everything about this woman (and her husband) from her demeanor, to her weight, to her socio-economic status, and somehow at the end imply these assessments are "evidence" that the woman killed the child. I have seen attempts to link her to the death of another child, and even satanic rituals, and I HAVE seen calls for her death. All in this thread. You are incorrect. Look again. It may begin with a new headline but the tangents that spin off from that inevitably degrade into vicious attacks against the parents (particularly the mother).

Originally posted by schmae
It's fair to speculate about what happened.

Yes, if the speculation is fair, and not just an excuse to indulge in what amounts to nothing more than torrid, viscous and even sick gossip.

Originally posted by schmae
That's what the thread is for

I didn't think the thread was for speculation, but for making information available. That was the intent set in the title, however it seems to have become a pretext to indulge in finger-shaking and accusations based on "gut feelings" and once again... sensationalized, corrupted information.

Originally posted by schmae
...because there are MORE of those posts.

Far, FAR more of the sordid, vicious posts than any sort of fair speculation. That's rather my point.

Originally posted by schmae
What do you make of the inconsistencies and things that do not add up? You think they are nothing and mean nothing?

I think that it is extraordinarily difficult to interpret what the inconsistencies mean while we are left on the wrong side of the distorted media looking glass. They may mean something or they may not, it may be correct un-biased information or it may not.

Besides, it's all subjective. How you interpret one thing may not be how I would. For example I hear everyone talking about how nervous and "shut down", or angry the father looked, and what I saw was very different. Especially at the beginning, every time I saw him, he was tense true, and not looking at the camera which is also true; however, he was blinking alot, swallowing repeatedly, clenching his jaw, and often shiny eyed. What I saw was a man desperately trying to not start blubbering in front of the camera, and sometimes when you are trying to hold it together that way you can look angry. But I admit I could be wrong. It's hard to say for certain.

Another example is when we learned that she admitted she was drunk, well... That was it for most of the people here. She's guilty. Done.

I don't see it that way.

I will say that that was really bad judgment in and of itself, as well as not coming forward to the police with that (if indeed she did not) is also really bad judgment. However, from what I have seen the police may have already had that information and the "confession" was just to the media. If she did with-hold that information from the police it may have been from simple fear of looking "even more guilty". If so, not smart, but I'd like to put it forward as another possibility.

I have to say that I haven't seen any "inconsistencies" that will stand up enough by themselves for me to start making accusations. They are worrisome, and no; they certainly don't mean "nothing", but not enough information is known, and many things can seem inconsistent if the full context is not known, and in these circumstances knowing that for us is extraordinarily difficult.

Originally posted by schmae
I for ONE hope you are right and that mom is innocent because then baby Lisa is out there.

Me too. Hope for hope.

As for some of the very uglier posts you mentioned , YES i saw them. I just ignore them and move unless there is something in there I want to answer. I don't feel the need to address every post and for the most part only avery few people *( i'd suggest folks who posted one or two times) wrote things like that. I dont want the mom put on death row or anything of the sort. I've not mentioned her weight or her income level. Most folks here have not because they realize those things mean NOTHING in the grand scheme of things. So those statements come and go but I can't see how you could say the thread is dominated by them. Is it dominated by suspicion of mom YES but MOM is very suspicious acting. I hope and pray shes just clueless and not guilty. I totally 100% pray that she is not guilty. Because that means Lisa may be alive and hopefully NOT suffering. I've wondered if the neighbor is involved. I've wondered if the brother is involved. I've wondered if a stranger is involved. At the end of the day it always comes back to MOM beign the one who has the most opportunity and access to the victim. By her own accoutns she's got little to no clue what happened that night.

Someone previously asked wha I would do if I were in her position. Honestly I cannot say that I know. If i woke up in a drunken stupor and my child was gone.......... I do not know what I would do or how I would handle. I can't speculate to it. I would HOPE that I would be able to be as helpful as possible to police to find my baby. I might even consider some sort of hypnosis.........does anyone know if hypnosis works on drunken blackouts?

Originally posted by schmae I don't say anyone really saying lock her up and throw away the key or EVEN take her other kid from her , shes' a horrible mom. I havent' seen that kind of attack.

And then you say...

Originally posted by schmaeAs for some of the very uglier posts you mentioned , YES i saw them.

Is this not an inconsistency?

See how easy that is? Both to appear inconsistent and to point it out and so discredit someone or in the appropriate circumstance arouse suspicion. Neat huh?

Originally posted by redhorse

Originally posted by schmae I don't say anyone really saying lock her up and throw away the key or EVEN take her other kid from her , shes' a horrible mom. I havent' seen that kind of attack.

And then you say...

Originally posted by schmaeAs for some of the very uglier posts you mentioned , YES i saw them.

Is this not an inconsistency?

See how easy that is? Both to appear inconsistent and to point it out and so discredit someone or in the appropriate circumstance arouse suspicion. Neat huh?

Is that really an inconsistency, or is it just two snippets taken out of context? Is the first example, is it a statment about Deborah? In the second example could it be a statment about how the users here treat one another?

reply to post by Dav1d

Is that really an inconsistency, or is it just two snippets taken out of context? Is the first example, is it a statment about Deborah? In the second example could it be a statment about how the users here treat one another?

I don't think its two snippets taken out of context...

first off schmae said this..

Originally posted by schmae I don't say anyone really saying lock her up and throw away the key or EVEN take her other kid from her , shes' a horrible mom. I havent' seen that kind of attack.

when clearly that has been some very strong attacks against her...where it was suggested she be hauled off to an electric chair.

Redhorse mentioned these..to which schmae replied

As for some of the very uglier posts you mentioned , YES i saw them.

So saying she wasn't aware of any posts that were an attack, then admitting that yes..she saw them.. seems very contradictory to me.

I think Redhorse has a level enough sense to see what was being referred to, and I totally understand why it seemed a contradiction.

Lets face it..the mother is being attacked and put under a lot of public scrutiny..so who can blame her for not wanting to invite the media into their lives anymore.

If she is hiding the truth for whatever reason, hopefully that will come to light.... but I don't see a hate campaign helping in getting any kind of real truth revealed, or true justice.

For the sake of baby Lisa , hopefully the truth is revealed sooner than later.

reply to post by redhorse


I havent' seen a post that says lock her up and throw away the key or one that says shes a horrible mother. I haven't read every post but dang near every post.
Uglier posts ive seen were to her weight or intelligence or income level.

So that's not inconsistent ,,,,,,, its completely consistent.
Sorry if that confused you. My piont was yes folks are being uglier than necessary. But it's not as if i've seen HORRID things written about the mom .

I think there is a big difference is calling for someone's lifetime imprisonment or calling them fat or stupid.
If you would scrutinize deborahs bradleys words one FIFTH of what you scruitinize my words you might understand why fokls are pointing the finger at her.