Lisa Irwin - Missing - One Year Later

reply to post by OneisOne


If the only thing discounting motorcycle man's account is that gil abeyto showed him brando's pic first then this is a HUGE shame Because abeyto was acting in good faith and trying to be helpful and probably when motor. man pointed to brando, abeyto thought YES YES YES we've got him ! It's sad because he seems like a really good guy who put his heart and money and time into trying to find a missing baby and if the case turned backwards on his actions, its' really sad and I bet he's just sick about it as well.

Originally posted by schmae
reply to post by gabby2011

 

Gabby, they were in response to your statement that baby Lisa , in Jesus' arms, would not want her mother punished for a crime against her. That Lisa would be sad knowing her mom had to go through all this. ( unless you ONLY meant if Deb was innocent, if that's so then I apologize) But I wanted to point out other instances where the VICTIM doesn't want charges filed even though they SHOULD be. You said something like Lisa's just the victim, so what does her opinion matter? re: whether or not she would want her mother punished. So they are valid questions because there are many instances where the victim of a crime does not WANT to press charges. So I wondered what you thought of THOSE instances. Should the victim, even a young child be the deciding factor in whether or not their assailant is punished?

And it HAD nothing to do with this case until you brought up that Lisa's opinion on whether or not Deb should be punished should be the opinion that counts. That's not how the law works, THANK GOD, or no domestic abuser would ever go to jail. Right?

edit on 2-12-2011 by schmae because: (no reason given)

Those are different scenarios..

let me ask you this.. if one of your children.. happened to crawl up ..and fell out of there crib..slamming their head hard..which resulted in death...

lets just say it was on a night..that you were drinking with friends ..

Do you think your child would want to see you put through hell.. do you think the child would forgive you?

Do you think the drinking had anything to do with it? because many would say it did..

That scenario would be more along the lines of why I am saying the child would forgive.. this is NOT a domestic abuse case.. so your comparisons are silly..

reply to post by schmae

I brought up the question about cold/cough medicine earlier in the thread. Children under 2 should not be given any over the counter cold/cough medicine per the FDA.

From a 2008 CNN article:

The FDA "strongly recommends" that OTC cough and cold medicines not be used for infants and children younger than 2, Dr. Charles Ganley, director of the FDA's Office of Nonprescription Products, said Thursday in a phone interview.

He said the FDA is concerned that parents hadn't gotten the message about the drugs despite heavy publicity on the issue in fall 2007. Watch why the FDA is warning parents

"The reality is these products are used quite a bit in this age group, and parents are using them without getting advice from a health-care provider," Ganley said.

Although the side effects are rare, they are serious, the FDA said. They can include death, convulsions, rapid heart rates, and decreased levels of consciousness.

Over the past two years, 1,500 babies and toddlers have wound up in emergency rooms after having a bad reaction to cold medicines, according to the U.S. Centers for Disease Control and Prevention. And in 2007, the FDA completed a review that found there were 54 reported child deaths from decongestants and 69 from antihistamines from 1969 and fall 2006. Most of those involved children under 2. Source

Maybe someone who didn't know this info gave Lisa medicine and she had a reaction. And like you stated, the mother not knowing what happened panicked because she had been drinking.

OiO

Originally posted by schmae
reply to post by OneisOne

 

If the only thing discounting motorcycle man's account is that gil abeyto showed him brando's pic first then this is a HUGE shame

Because abeyto was acting in good faith and trying to be helpful and probably when motor. man pointed to brando, abeyto thought YES YES YES we've got him ! It's sad because he seems like a really good guy who put his heart and money and time into trying to find a missing baby and if the case turned backwards on his actions, its' really sad and I bet he's just sick about it as well.

The problem with this is.. even if the id was inadmissible in court.. the police would have good reason to still look into it..and try to connect the dots.. ?

That is why I want to hear what these witnesses have to say..

reply to post by gabby2011


So no answer because you deem it silly. OK.
The point is the victim in a case does not always get to decide. If a crime was committed the STATE brings the charge and that is the end of it. A mother whose son is going to prison for life for killling 10 people will NOT WANT him to have justice. She will cry and moan and hope and pray there is a way he can get out of it. It doesn't mean it should be that way. An emotional response to a punishment is always going to be harsh on someone, but it still must be carried out.

While we're on the topic of Lisa in Jesus' hands, let's not forget Jesus took a punishment for all sins of the whole world............things he hadn't even done. So I'm guessing God and Jesus both believe in punishment. In fact God will send you to hell for punishment of a crime against Him.... so it's not as though a Christian by its very nature believes no one gets punished for their wrong doing !

reply to post by gabby2011


Well Brando is a good suspect,,, good as in was in the area, knew the family, was up that night and possibly had an axe to grind with Irwins. But there was that 'profile' abeyto made, remember? It seemed to point directly at Brando. So I'm wondering was that profile made before or after motorcycle guy picks out Brandos' pic?
Because if the 2 were independant,,, profile pointing at brando and witness seeing brando, then that is actually pretty big deal, don't you think?
Brando, like a few others, are 'wild cards' in this. Don't look too guilty and yet don't look too innocent either.

Other wild cards, in my opinion

Jersey,,,, Shane the neighbor,, Dane,,,,,,,, the uncle, deb's bro, Phillip ?

reply to post by gabby2011


Well I have no idea how Jesus feels about accidents or abortions so I'm not about to speculate. It's one thing to speculate on what an irwin may have done,,,,,,,,,,, but the Savior? NOPE !
As for Silo , I have n o clue on that either. But I can bet no good can come from taking the baby Lisa thread to an abortion discussion......none.
So guessing Deb accidentally killed the baby,, total accident, but did not allow Lisa proper burial or any closure or even allow LISA FATHER to know what happened to her. You think she's still innocent? And Lisa approves of all this? Once you've committed a crime in the eyes of the state , yes it no longer matters what your VICTIM thinks. The state has the right to charge you or not. Deb gave up the right to no charge with an accident when she covered it, lied and disposed of the body. If that is what happened.

reply to post by gabby2011


Also drunkenness is a sin, so if an accident occurred under the sin of drunkenness, I'm not sure how it would be looked at by Heaven.
What about a drunk driving accident? Different story but an accident occurring with your car while drunk carries a WAY BIGGER penalty than a regular car accident.

Originally posted by schmae
reply to post by gabby2011

 

Well I have no idea how Jesus feels about accidents or abortions so I'm not about to speculate. It's one thing to speculate on what an irwin may have done,,,,,,,,,,, but the Savior? NOPE !
As for Silo , I have n o clue on that either. But I can bet no good can come from taking the baby Lisa thread to an abortion discussion......none.
So guessing Deb accidentally killed the baby,, total accident, but did not allow Lisa proper burial or any closure or even allow LISA FATHER to know what happened to her. You think she's still innocent? And Lisa approves of all this? Once you've committed a crime in the eyes of the state , yes it no longer matters what your VICTIM thinks. The state has the right to charge you or not. Deb gave up the right to no charge with an accident when she covered it, lied and disposed of the body. If that is what happened.

Well I have no idea how Jesus feels about accidents or abortions so I'm not about to speculate. It's one thing to speculate on what an irwin may have done,,,,,,,,,,, but the Savior? NOPE !

Really now..but you can speculate that Jesus sends help to those so they can get justice.. what kind of justice?

He would want justice for a child that has died of an accident..but not one from am abortion?..why because the state laws are different?

So God judges by state laws now?

I won't answer anymore of your posts schmae.. you play the back peddle twist around game.. expect your questions answered but skirt around the ones I ask..

Originally posted by schmae
reply to post by gabby2011

 

Also drunkenness is a sin, so if an accident occurred under the sin of drunkenness, I'm not sure how it would be looked at by Heaven.
What about a drunk driving accident? Different story but an accident occurring with your car while drunk carries a WAY BIGGER penalty than a regular car accident.

Thats right schmae...and so many parents have just been plain lucky that nothing happened to their children while they were drinking..

You yourself have admitted to drinking before and after your kids went to bed..and even driving them to the hospital in that condition... because you were "afraid' to call for help..

You got lucky... plain and simple.. and you're really no better than Debbie in my eyes..as far as drinking and childcare goes..

reply to post by gabby2011


'''Really now..but you can speculate that Jesus sends help to those so they can get justice.. what kind of justice? '''

What ? I said Jesus SENDS HELP to whom?

I cannot answer a question about SILO and how she feels about abortion because I have no idea,,,,,,, sorry if that burns your bonnet.
As for sins,,,,,,,,, ALL sins are equal in the eyes of the Father......... so you can decipher what that means for yourself. I'm sure you already knew that though. It's pretty common knowledge that a lie or a murder is the same in the eyes of God !

reply to post by gabby2011


GABBY re read my post before you comment. READ IT AGAIN, i said a night i was NOT drinking i had to drive them to the hospital and thought OMG what if this was a night I had drank. I made it VERY VERY clear to anyone who READS what I write what was going on. This explains a TON about you and your ridiculous comments. As I thought before you read a line or two and draw a conclusion and go on and make a post.
SHAME ON YOU !
I never drove my kids anywhere drunk........ lol .
Can you understand the english language? This has come up many many times and yet you're the one who seems to keep getting it wrong and you point the finger at me.
READ what I WROTE not what you want to.
Do you honestly think I would be commenting 170 pages later if I were a drinking driving negligent parent myself? That would be the height of hypocrisy and not my thing, but apparently yours !
SHAME ON YOU !

Can you read these words and understand them ...........

When my kids were young I did drink. Didn't ignore kids for adult time and stuff like that but I would have a few beers in the evening, maybe a few more after they went to bed ( not at 6 pm bedtime, either, actual bedtime) and on weekends often they'd go to parents house and we'd do lots of drinking with friends etc. WHILE the KIDS were AWAY!!!!!!! To clarify NO BLACKING OUT drunk!!!!!!!!!!!!
One night NOT drinking, one of my kids got very ill in the middle of the night with a bad asthma attack and had to go to ER. It was pretty sudden and unexpected and they HAD to go and could not wait until morning. I was thinking while driving over " o m g what if I had been drunk on this night?"" I imagined getting pulled over on way to ER with my sick child and the nightmare OR calling an ambulance and explaining I can't drive because I'm drunk but my child needs help. Either option a NO GO.


Need a dictionary toknow what NOT means?

RETRACT this statement ...........
You yourself have admitted to drinking before and after your kids went to bed..and even driving them to the hospital in that condition... because you were "afraid' to call for help..

You got lucky... plain and simple.. and you're really no better than Debbie in my eyes..as far as drinking and childcare goes..
Because you are now slandering me !

Many times I've been pm'd to report you to mods and I have not done so. I actually kind of enjoy a riveting debate and I figure you've done no harm so why report it. But apparently some people have and you've had many posts removed. Now you're just talking lies and making things UP fabricating them and it's no wonder half of your posts make no sense because you only read portions of them. I will go to mods with this if you don't retract it and apologize for NOT even bothering to read the post. And after this, I will no longer read or responod to anything you say. You make me sad Gabby . Your life must be very dark and bitter.

And now you're silent? Why now? It only takes a minute to say oops I misread that, sorry. But you're trying to think of a way to cover your own tail and not admit a mistake. I've 3 or 5 or more times apologized to you when you showed me that i MISREAD a post of yours. I am very eager to apologize when I misread something. But you apparently cannot admit a mistake. So you must know how DEBORAH feels to not want to admit a mistake, right? Maybe this is why you are so gung ho to defend her at all turns, because you and her are a lot alike and no matter what you are faced with, it is not your fault. Is that it, Gabby?

reply to post by schmae

One night NOT drinking, one of my kids got very ill in the middle of the night with a bad asthma attack and had to go to ER. It was pretty sudden and unexpected and they HAD to go and could not wait until morning. I was thinking while driving over " o m g what if I had been drunk on this night?"" I imagined getting pulled over on way to ER with my sick child and the nightmare OR calling an ambulance and explaining I can't drive because I'm drunk but my child needs help. Either option a NO GO.

yes.. I did mistake what you said..

But..you yourself admitted it could have happened on a night you were drinking..

yes..you seem to love a good debate.. just fuels that life spark.. which is most likely why you are on this thread.. and specualting.. and hoping for an argument.. because YOU LOVE IT.

has little to do with wanting justice..

Have fun with that..

reply to post by gabby2011


Of course it COULD have.......... that's when I woke up and decided drinking no matter if your kids are awake or asleep is a bad idea. I learned from the experience. We all have to live and learn. And if it had happened ona night I was drinking I'd likely be suffering some sort of consequence for it today . AND I WOULD DESERVE IT ! You're saying there is no fault and no punishment even if it was an accident. I disagree. And no when I first starrted on this thread , it was about sharing ideas and theories. You've made it a daily debate and drudgery. Most have quit even responding to you and now I can see why. Anyone who has been drunk and has children was taking a chance and I'd bet thats a huge %% of the population. Did we learn anything from it? Deb's still defending her right to drink to this day. She has the right, but her baby's gone. So she didnt' learn anything from it. I did and I thank GOD did not have a horrible accident to teach me. I realized WITHOUT an accident that it was risky behavior !

Originally posted by schmae
And now you're silent? Why now? It only takes a minute to say oops I misread that, sorry. But you're trying to think of a way to cover your own tail and not admit a mistake. I've 3 or 5 or more times apologized to you when you showed me that i MISREAD a post of yours. I am very eager to apologize when I misread something. But you apparently cannot admit a mistake. So you must know how DEBORAH feels to not want to admit a mistake, right? Maybe this is why you are so gung ho to defend her at all turns, because you and her are a lot alike and no matter what you are faced with, it is not your fault. Is that it, Gabby?

whatever.. and you have not apologized that many times..

You have a problem with comprehension..and a knack for twisting.. and now you want to psychologically look at my intentions here?..save it.

Have fun with your "debating".. looking for the darkness.. and enjoying the bitterness against debbie..

Originally posted by schmae
reply to post by gabby2011

 

Of course it COULD have.......... that's when I woke up and decided drinking no matter if your kids are awake or asleep is a bad idea. I learned from the experience. We all have to live and learn. And if it had happened ona night I was drinking I'd likely be suffering some sort of consequence for it today . AND I WOULD DESERVE IT ! You're saying there is no fault and no punishment even if it was an accident. I disagree. And no when I first starrted on this thread , it was about sharing ideas and theories. You've made it a daily debate and drudgery. Most have quit even responding to you and now I can see why. Anyone who has been drunk and has children was taking a chance and I'd bet thats a huge %% of the population. Did we learn anything from it? Deb's still defending her right to drink to this day. She has the right, but her baby's gone. So she didnt' learn anything from it. I did and I thank GOD did not have a horrible accident to teach me. I realized WITHOUT an accident that it was risky behavior !

Where is she defending her right to drink to this day? Can you back that up with facts?

Can you back up any of what you say you have done concerning drinking with facts?..

Maybe people should dig up all the info they can about your life..with witnesses.. and see how much you tell the truth?