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Lisa Irwin - Missing - One Year Later

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posted on Dec, 1 2011 @ 03:45 PM
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reply to post by OneisOne
 


How normal can life be if your home has been broken into, your infant has been kidnapped and remains missing and your other children are left to believe that an evil boogeyman who has already stolen your sister remains at large?

You've really got to think about what that will do to the boys long term emotional/mental health. Not only is the 'monster' that 'took' their little sister still 'out there on the loose somewhere' - but those poor boys are back living in the same house where their sister was stolen and they're supposed to 'get back to normal?'


I'm not going to pretend to be a child psychiatrist but I'd hazard a guess the massive repression taking place compounded by fear, tension, so much more! Wow.
Those poor little boys! I know kids are resilient though so we can hope for their own personal integrity staying in one piece - still - my HOPE is the judge will force counseling and regular home visits from CPS.

I was going to say something about 'keep your fingers crossed' over the 'River' info - but I'm not sure what I'm in hopes for.


peace



edit on 1-12-2011 by silo13 because: spacing




posted on Dec, 1 2011 @ 03:48 PM
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reply to post by silo13
 





- Police do not believe an 'intruder' came into the home through the 'window'.
- Jersey has been ruled out (along with the rest of the flop-house-gang).
- ALL eyewitnesses have been ruled out.


Once again silo..you post info to make it look like the parents are to blame.. why didn't you add they have ruled out the Irwins as well..because they have said that too?

Oh right..I forgot..when they say it about the Irwins they are lying to the public.. so they can give the parents rope to hang themselves.. but when they say it about others ..its of course true.

wow.. Did anyone else see what I saw, when those police tried to go in that window..it was ridiculous how they tried the hardest way possible..sideways..

All eye witnesses ruled out hunh??

Wonder what the two initial eye witnesses think about that..

The only thing that gives me some sense of piece on this case.. is believing a higher power knows the truth..and anyone who has tried to cover up the truth for whatever motivations will be exposed.

I know exactly where I would go .. to get more info.. and I would watch very carefully..

My wish is.. that if Lisa was abducted.. someone is watching certain people very closely right now..as they should be.



posted on Dec, 1 2011 @ 03:53 PM
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reply to post by silo13
 





You've really got to think about what that will do to the boys long term emotional/mental health. Not only is the 'monster' that 'took' their little sister still out there - but living in the same house and 'trying to get back to normal?'


Is this an example of how you have not made up your mind ?


What will damage the emotional /mental health of these boys is what the public has decided to put their family through..

They will get over the trauma of losing their baby sister.. but the trauma of the bashing and hating will go on for some time..and that will be much more difficult to live with as time goes on...and it will continue ..all under the guise of caring .. (disgusting)



posted on Dec, 1 2011 @ 03:57 PM
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reply to post by wildtimes
 


Wait. What?? He was tainted by ..... OH! I get it. Not that he was reading this thread and decided to become an "eyewitness"....that he has been, by many on this thread, discredited.
Right?

I posted some information about the gentleman named Gel who lost his boy 25 years ago and was trying to help the Brad-Win. I was all for him helping the parents and openly hoped that he could and would - regardless what some have intentionally misconstrued.

Anyway, it was pointed out by a few here in the thread supposedly Gel showed a picture of a suspect 'out of turn' and after a witness was tainted. I've no reason to doubt Michelle I'm only clarifying (which in fact later on Michelle did also) that the police never confirmed the above info (that a witness was tainted).

Regardless if a witness was or was not tainted? None of the 'witnesses' have been credible with their changing stories on multiple levels and the police have repeatedly reiterated nothing from any 'witness' 'panned out'.

peace



posted on Dec, 1 2011 @ 04:02 PM
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reply to post by silo13
 


Ah... I thought you were referring to the guy on the motorcycle...who was shown a lineup but that whole thing was dismissed....
yeah.
In my opinion, the guy Gil Abeyta, who lost his son and showed up at the home where Lisa's family was staying, was doing his utmost to assist, to offer moral support and encouragement, and give the parents some knowledge gained through experience.

He was eventually allowed to come in, but Deborah and Jeremy ignored him entirely, and Deborah was busy cleaning up the kitchen, and it was later stated that "their lawyer told them not to talk to him."

Okay, I recall.

Thanks for the clarification.!!



posted on Dec, 1 2011 @ 04:07 PM
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reply to post by wildtimes
 
Yes, I believe it was 'Motorcycle Mike' - and since then perhaps the police have some out and said something about him being 'tainted' - BUT - I've not seen anything. That isn't saying it isn't there - I'm just going by what Michelle was pointing out. It was a while ago so I'm open for hearing if the police did make a conclusion about Gel.

Regardless though Mike waited far to long to report the 'sighting' - and after he couldn't keep the description of the 'baby' correct which was my point for doubting his credibility.




posted on Dec, 1 2011 @ 04:07 PM
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reply to post by silo13
 





Regardless if a witness was or was not tainted? None of the 'witnesses' have been credible with their changing stories on multiple levels and the police have repeatedly reiterated nothing from any 'witness' 'panned out'.


Just because a witness wasn't sure if a baby had on a t shirt or not.. a baby that has tan marks ..even slightly could look like they had a tshirt on.. ?

I want these witnesses in a book.. I want to read a book ..and get many more facts that we are not privy to, by the actual people themselves.. and I do see that coming at some point..

Don't know..but it seems like the police have tried real hard to discredit certain people.

Something fishy going on with this case.. and someday the real truth will be known.

My heart goes out to the Irwin family..



posted on Dec, 1 2011 @ 04:13 PM
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reply to post by silo13
 





Regardless though Mike waited far to long to report the 'sighting' - and after he couldn't keep the description of the 'baby' correct which was my point for doubting his credibility.


Did you ever pause to think he may not have heard about the case till a few days later..then mentioned something to a friend about an odd thing he saw that night, and it was then he was encouraged to go tell his story?

The huge conflict was that he wasn't sure if the child had on a tshirt or not.. and like I said.. mild tan lines could cause that illusion quite easily.

Of course that just throws his credibility right out the window....because you WANT his credibility thrown out the window..

and the other two..the couple who saw the man within a block from the irwins?.. what have you decided to paint them with.. so they are considered not credible?

I think private eyes could still be working on this case.. so I am guessing there are things being looked into that the police are not looking into..for whatever reason... and that will be the book that sells millions.



posted on Dec, 1 2011 @ 04:50 PM
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reply to post by gabby2011
 


We have no idea why the police have 'moved on ' from the sightings by the 3 individuals and the store security camera. The police didn't say there was a discrediting of the witness, did they? I think what they said is the sightings were UNRELATED to baby Lisa. That means that indeed these people may have seen someone carrying a baby but it turns out to NOT be baby Lisa. Maybe someone in the neighborhood admitted they were carrying their baby outside for some reason, to get the mail or walk them to sleep because they were crying , etc., and THIS other person hearing all the hoopla from the case said PLEASE do not release my name or anything else. I don't want to be a part of this media circus this case has inspired. So we don't know why they were moved on. Maybe the motorcyle guy was drinking OR has super poor eyesight and admitted he didn't have his glasses on that night or something that made police realize his account is not USABLE.

And it doesnt matter if silo or me or anyone else WANTS motorcycle Mike's crediibiltity thrown out the window, the police decide and they decide his 'sighting' is unusable. So you , once again, think it must be shoddy work and coverup by KCPD . Is there any other reason it could be? He's either 100% accurate and saw Lisa's kidnapper OR there is a coverup by the KCPD regarding him............. there's nothing in between??

edit on 1-12-2011 by schmae because: (no reason given)



posted on Dec, 1 2011 @ 05:24 PM
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reply to post by schmae
 





He's either 100% accurate and saw Lisa's kidnapper OR there is a coverup by the KCPD regarding him............. there's nothing in between??


See..exaggerations again..

what I am saying is that his account can't be totally dismissed.. I did not say he was100 % accurate.

I said" I smell something fishy".. and those words can be used to imply a lot of things.

But continue on with your quest for justice...



posted on Dec, 1 2011 @ 06:08 PM
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reply to post by gabby2011
 


You have ignored many questions I've asked you today. Is there anything between the two? I ASKED and instead of answering you spin it. What is the middle ground in your opinion? Why would the police move on from the eyewitness sightings of man with a baby walking at night?



posted on Dec, 1 2011 @ 06:34 PM
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reply to post by gabby2011
 


The police have said ALL EYEWITNESS accounts were ruled out or moved on from. That's one of the very VERY few things the police have actually stated. So , like you've said many times, we'll have to wait for a book to see what is what with these eye witnesses.
Also did we ever get any clarification about exactly WHO stated that gil abeyto had 'tainted' the motorcycle man witness? Did police or media or lawyers state that? For all we know it's a media spin and he was not 'tainted' just discounted as not related to this case !

All any of us have are assumptions !!!!!!!!!! ALL OF US are ASSUMING almost everything in every post we make because NONE of us are directly involved or have direct access to information. That means ALL of us !



posted on Dec, 1 2011 @ 07:17 PM
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Originally posted by schmae
reply to post by gabby2011
 


You have ignored many questions I've asked you today. Is there anything between the two? I ASKED and instead of answering you spin it. What is the middle ground in your opinion? Why would the police move on from the eyewitness sightings of man with a baby walking at night?


If I've ignored your questions..it is either because I have felt that they have already been answered.. or you take the answer the wrong and spin yet another question.

Good question .. why would they?

Why would they think debbie killed her child then covered it up?... were there witnesses who saw either her or jeremy leaving, removing something..?

Did they find a body in the home..or any where in their yard..?

If they were looking at all these water spots..was it on a psychic tip, and if so.. did jeremy or debbie have the means to get there?..with no witnesses?

I don't see how an obviously drunk woman could cover up a crime.. and I don't see Jeremy helping her.

That being said..I have a lot of questions as well..and hopefully in time they will get answered.







edit on 1-12-2011 by gabby2011 because: (no reason given)



posted on Dec, 1 2011 @ 09:29 PM
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reply to post by gabby2011
 


Do you agree when a woman is beaten senseless by her spouse and she drops charges that she should be able to? Or that the state should pick up the charges?
Do you believ ethat when a mother beats a child and the child still cries with outstretched arms for his mother that the child should still go to foster care?
yes or no to both of those questions would be great ...............

YES OR NO and I guess we'll see if I can spin it
, but I'm curious your answer to questions like these .



posted on Dec, 2 2011 @ 05:14 AM
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Lisa Irwin case: Picerno continues to jump the shark

Here's Val's take on the situation. The whole link is worth a read.
In finall thoughts concerning Deborah and the 'custody hearing' she writes:


Losing your baby while you’re blitzo drunk, and not even being able to recall when you last checked her on before she went missing is not a “strike”, it’s a friggin crime. It’s called child neglect, child endangerment…irresponsibility of epic proportions. Unlike the potential criminal side of this situation, those possible child-endangering actions do not have to be proven beyond a reasonable doubt in a family court setting. They just have to be apparent enough to scare the bejeezus out of the judge. I think we’ve reached “bejeezus-scaring” level.


As as I agree, and have stated numerous times, this does not make the mother a murderess, but, it surely does not hold her innocent of the above either.

peace



posted on Dec, 2 2011 @ 06:40 AM
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Originally posted by schmae
Also did we ever get any clarification about exactly WHO stated that gil abeyto had 'tainted' the motorcycle man witness? Did police or media or lawyers state that? For all we know it's a media spin and he was not 'tainted' just discounted as not related to this case !


I think this info originally came from the CNN reporter Jim Spellman. I went back through his twitter feed and found it.

You have to read these bottom to top for them to make since. If you want to see them on his page, it is @jimspellmancnn, scroll down to the tweets from November 14.

@jimspellmancnn
I hope that clarifies MT and his photo ID. I hope this also explains why I haven't named this man , who i have met and am in contact with
14 Nov

@jimspellmancnn
We arent sure how Gil conducted his photo array, but KCPD tells me that since Gil had already seen pictures his testimony is ruined.
14 Nov

@jimspellmancnn
And he again IDed the same guy. I got all this from MT, GA and CS. So, he did ID the man to LE but after he IDed him to Gil.
14 Nov

@jimspellmancnn
..brough this to Cyndy SHorts attention and CS took MT to the KCPD. They interviewed him fro 2 hours and did their own photo array...
14 Nov

@jimspellmancnn
And to add a bit of clarity about MT and the photos. Gil took him photos first and he IDed a man as being the person he saw. GA then...
14 Nov

So I'm thinking the initials are as follows:
MT - Mike Thompson
GA - Gil Abetya
CS - Cyndy Short

If anyone would like to review the original discussion on this is starts on page 109 with a post from Michelle129th.

OiO



posted on Dec, 2 2011 @ 06:48 AM
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reply to post by OneisOne
 


TKS ONE ! So KCPD told Spellman that the sighting was compromised because of Abeyto. That's great info because I thought if maybe just media said it it was a rumor. BUT I do believe before this was said KCPD had already said they were moving on from all eyewitness sightings. That means they were already non credible or non related.
Tks again !



posted on Dec, 2 2011 @ 06:56 AM
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Originally posted by schmae
reply to post by gabby2011
 


Do you agree when a woman is beaten senseless by her spouse and she drops charges that she should be able to? Or that the state should pick up the charges?
Do you believ ethat when a mother beats a child and the child still cries with outstretched arms for his mother that the child should still go to foster care?
yes or no to both of those questions would be great ...............

YES OR NO and I guess we'll see if I can spin it
, but I'm curious your answer to questions like these .


Again ..an example of senseless questions that have nothing to do with this case..

This might be why I don't bother with your questions?

edit on 2-12-2011 by gabby2011 because: (no reason given)



posted on Dec, 2 2011 @ 07:12 AM
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reply to post by gabby2011
 


Gabby, they were in response to your statement that baby Lisa , in Jesus' arms, would not want her mother punished for a crime against her. That Lisa would be sad knowing her mom had to go through all this. ( unless you ONLY meant if Deb was innocent, if that's so then I apologize) But I wanted to point out other instances where the VICTIM doesn't want charges filed even though they SHOULD be. You said something like Lisa's just the victim, so what does her opinion matter? re: whether or not she would want her mother punished. So they are valid questions because there are many instances where the victim of a crime does not WANT to press charges. So I wondered what you thought of THOSE instances. Should the victim, even a young child be the deciding factor in whether or not their assailant is punished?

And it HAD nothing to do with this case until you brought up that Lisa's opinion on whether or not Deb should be punished should be the opinion that counts. That's not how the law works, THANK GOD, or no domestic abuser would ever go to jail. Right?
edit on 2-12-2011 by schmae because: (no reason given)



posted on Dec, 2 2011 @ 07:23 AM
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SO I had a thought.
When my kids were young I did drink. Didn't ignore kids for adult time and stuff like that but I would have a few beers in the evening, maybe a few more after they went to bed ( not at 6 pm bedtime, either, actual bedtime) and on weekends often they'd go to parents house and we'd do lots of drinking with friends etc. WHILE the KIDS were AWAY!!!!!!! To clarify NO BLACKING OUT drunk!!!!!!!!!!!!
One night NOT drinking, one of my kids got very ill in the middle of the night with a bad asthma attack and had to go to ER. It was pretty sudden and unexpected and they HAD to go and could not wait until morning. I was thinking while driving over " o m g what if I had been drunk on this night?"" I imagined getting pulled over on way to ER with my sick child and the nightmare OR calling an ambulance and explaining I can't drive because I'm drunk but my child needs help. Either option a NO GO.

So this made me think Baby Lisa was sick that night....... havent' really heard MUCH about what her 'sickness' was. If she had a bad cold that can turn into an asthmatic event pretty quickly and without warning. Well there is warning but with a child who cannot speak and tell you they're having respiratory distress, there is little warning. So what if Lisa had an event like that ? She was just sick and seemed to have a basic cold . Some cold meds robitussin and triaminic etc , actually have ingredients that can make an asthma attack WORSE. I cannot remember if its' the decongestant or anti histamine , but one of them is the OPPOSITE of what you want to give an asthmatic child. So maybe Deb, having no experience with asthma with her older kids, didnt' expect anything like this or know what to look for, gives her some triaminic and it makes an asthma attack worse. Baby Lisa cannot breath but no one knows because it's very quiet, not like a fall and bump on the head where she would cry. So when Deb goes to check her sometime later, she LITERALLY , has no idea what happened. Racking her brain to try to remember and thinking OMG did I do this or what happened here?

So food for thought ! The most heartbreaking part of this case is to imagine a simple accident that is easily explained and EVERYONE can understand, may have caused all of this. That Deb was too afraid to get help when it could have gone so smoothly. Yes she would have had some explaining to do but it would have been ok. She may have just literally made a mountain out of a molehill for herself.
edit on 2-12-2011 by schmae because: (no reason given)



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