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Lisa Irwin - Missing - One Year Later

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posted on Dec, 1 2011 @ 07:48 AM
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Originally posted by gabby2011


Why don't you say a prayer.. and ask Lisa that?.. Dear Lisa.. if your mom killed you by accident, and is afraid to confess...how do you think we should be treating her..and your dad?.. Dear Lisa.. If your mom is proven to be guilty of killing you by accident.. how do you want justice?

You meditate on that Schmae ..because I have.. ask Jesus to help you with it..


OMG !!

and the little baby Lisa answered the question... goo goo ga ga...

farout... as if a little baby would have any of the reasoning skills you consider...

howabout... we say another prayer:

"Dear Yeshua...

could you please find the missing child Lisa Irwin?"




posted on Dec, 1 2011 @ 07:53 AM
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reply to post by gabby2011
 


I think you must read about 30 % of my posts, lol. Because I've accused everyone who even knew them at some point or another , in fact just THIS morning I accused others. And I don't hate Deb . I guess you missed the whole post about her childhood and life and how awful it would have been for her. Did you see that ? And you will have to ask forgiveness from the entire kdpd and beyond to get into heaven? What are you on about now?
Jesus loved the little children remember? I think anyone who harms them has to answer to him and God said pretty plainly anyone who breaks the laws of their land has to answer for their crimes. Remember? And I've said about 3 to 5 times that if Deb is innocent I will totally eat my words and be super regretful. Will I apologize to her face? Hardly! I haven't said a word of this to her face. So my words don't affect her one way or the other. Neither do any of ours. We're all speculating and guessing and theorizing and you like to fall back on that . But to the rest of us you act as if we've made declarations of her guilt and I recall very few of those kind of posts.



posted on Dec, 1 2011 @ 07:54 AM
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Originally posted by schmae
reply to post by OneisOne
 


ONE IS ! You just brought up an interesting idea. Who would help Deb cover up the death? Unless something else happened to her. Is that what you're suggesting? Perhaps someone else caused the accident, like the uncle or neighbor etc........or were a party to the accident and so that 's why they'd help her cover it up?


That could be it schmae, or it could be one of the other children there that night might have been involved and that is why the coverup happened. I know that this a very frowned upon idea. But please understand I am thinking of this from purely an accidental view point. Deborah was outside having her adult time and Lisa was fussy from a cold so one of the kids tried to help out rather than bother mom. I know that will be a very unpopular idea, but it is the only way I can justify in my mind adults disposing of a baby's body. I want to think these are all good people and the coverup happened to save one of the other children.

OiO



posted on Dec, 1 2011 @ 08:03 AM
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Originally posted by Thurisaz

Originally posted by gabby2011


Why don't you say a prayer.. and ask Lisa that?.. Dear Lisa.. if your mom killed you by accident, and is afraid to confess...how do you think we should be treating her..and your dad?.. Dear Lisa.. If your mom is proven to be guilty of killing you by accident.. how do you want justice?

You meditate on that Schmae ..because I have.. ask Jesus to help you with it..


OMG !!

and the little baby Lisa answered the question... goo goo ga ga...

farout... as if a little baby would have any of the reasoning skills you consider...

howabout... we say another prayer:

"Dear Yeshua...

could you please find the missing child Lisa Irwin?"



That answer was in reply to a question of .."what would be justice for baby Lisa"..and though she may not talk.. her heart still feels.. and what would her heart feel if she knew it was an accident.. and everyone was hating on her family?

What if she knew they were innocent?.. how would that little heart feel with what her family has had to endure and continues to endure.

As far as asking for Jesus for help.. think many of us have done that from the get go..and to me..in my heart he tells me NOT to bash the parents...because this will NOT help Lisa.




edit on 1-12-2011 by gabby2011 because: (no reason given)

edit on 1-12-2011 by gabby2011 because: (no reason given)



posted on Dec, 1 2011 @ 08:21 AM
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Bashing would be calling her names and making inflammatory statements about her. Stating she was drunk and negligent is not bashing. Stating she's changed her story multiple times is not bashing. I think since her lawyers started talking for her , they've made her look much more guilty than she did before. The baby is missing without a trace. The last person to see her alive was admitted too drunk to know what was going on. It's not bashing to speculate about what happened. Calling her a fat lazy piece of junk white trash b*** is bashing. One or two posts like that were made way earlier in this thread by fly by nighters who havent' been back to discuss it at all , which leads one to believe they are the sort who love to 'bash' on anyone and have probably written similar posts to loads of stories other than this one.
To say what Lisa would want to happen to her mother is a bit of grey area because often children even of ABUSE want to stay with their parents. So tight is the bond of child to mother that children would choose their mother over anything. ( i am NOT suggesting lisa was an abused baby, only making a point)
Often when a man is thrown in jail for beating his woman, that same woman goes to the jail and pays his bond and drops the charges etc,,, NOT wanting them to be responsible for the abuse because they love them and need them at home, so they just ignore it. SO if Lisa were to not want her mother to be held criminally responsible, IF THERE IS A CRIME, then it doesnt' really matter what Lisa wants. Right?



posted on Dec, 1 2011 @ 08:24 AM
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reply to post by OneisOne
 


Yes ONE, i see where you're going with this. GOD forbid if one of the brothers accidentally did something and caused her death. Of course the child would have gotten off if it had come out immediately. But what if Deb, wanting to protect the older boy, didnt' even tell him. See? She pretends Lisa's ok, puts her in bed and later on fabricates break in etc,,, so that the brother doesnt' have to live with the knowledge he might have caused it? Because that would be a big burden for a little boy to carry , mom says oh no shes' fine,, just a little bump on the head. I'll put her to bed now . And then begins the big mess. I don't know. Wouldnt' that part have come out in the boys' interview? I guess maybe not if Deb did so good a job minimizing it that it just seemed like a bump to the head, no big deal? That's sad to think about


Sad to think about but truly I'd have much more respect for DEB if she were doing all this to cover and protect the emotional well being of her older son than if she were doing all thsi to cover for an accident she herself did.
edit on 1-12-2011 by schmae because: (no reason given)



posted on Dec, 1 2011 @ 08:27 AM
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Originally posted by schmae
Bashing would be calling her names and making inflammatory statements about her. Stating she was drunk and negligent is not bashing. Stating she's changed her story multiple times is not bashing. I think since her lawyers started talking for her , they've made her look much more guilty than she did before. The baby is missing without a trace. The last person to see her alive was admitted too drunk to know what was going on. It's not bashing to speculate about what happened. Calling her a fat lazy piece of junk white trash b*** is bashing. One or two posts like that were made way earlier in this thread by fly by nighters who havent' been back to discuss it at all , which leads one to believe they are the sort who love to 'bash' on anyone and have probably written similar posts to loads of stories other than this one.
To say what Lisa would want to happen to her mother is a bit of grey area because often children even of ABUSE want to stay with their parents. So tight is the bond of child to mother that children would choose their mother over anything. ( i am NOT suggesting lisa was an abused baby, only making a point)
Often when a man is thrown in jail for beating his woman, that same woman goes to the jail and pays his bond and drops the charges etc,,, NOT wanting them to be responsible for the abuse because they love them and need them at home, so they just ignore it. SO if Lisa were to not want her mother to be held criminally responsible, IF THERE IS A CRIME, then it doesnt' really matter what Lisa wants. Right?



Of course it doesn't matter what Lisa would want..she is only the victim..right? how dare her get in the way of of people her calling her mother "ignorant trash"..and that wasn't a fly by night poster.. it was someone who professed to have knowledge in "behavioral sciences", and worked with counseling families.

Anyhow...carry on with your "justice"..

edit on 1-12-2011 by gabby2011 because: (no reason given)



posted on Dec, 1 2011 @ 08:31 AM
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reply to post by gabby2011
 


My point was it was not ME who made any such statement and yet you constantly accuse me of bashing the mother! Right?
Do you agree when a woman is beaten senseless by her spouse and she drops charges that she should be able to? Or that the state should pick up the charges?
Do you believ ethat when a mother beats a child and the child still cries with outstretched arms for his mother that the child should still go to foster care?
yes or no to both of those questions would be great ...............
Because victims OFTEN want to drop charges because of EMOTIONAL reasons. That does not negate the fact that the CRIME was committed. So if everyone who "FELT" like they love someone even though they are a criminal got their way, there would be loads of people on the streets right n ow who are murderers !



posted on Dec, 1 2011 @ 08:41 AM
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ac·cuse (-kyz)
v. ac·cused, ac·cus·ing, ac·cus·es
v.tr.
1. To charge with a shortcoming or error.
2. To charge formally with a wrongdoing.
v.intr.
To make a charge of wrongdoing against another.

www.thefreedictionary.com...

Not to speculate or guess, which is what we do all day............ speculate, guess, theorize and wonder what if. Far cry from an " accusation'.



posted on Dec, 1 2011 @ 08:46 AM
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Originally posted by schmae
ac·cuse (-kyz)
v. ac·cused, ac·cus·ing, ac·cus·es
v.tr.
1. To charge with a shortcoming or error.
2. To charge formally with a wrongdoing.
v.intr.
To make a charge of wrongdoing against another.

www.thefreedictionary.com...

Not to speculate or guess, which is what we do all day............ speculate, guess, theorize and wonder what if. Far cry from an " accusation'.


Schmae if you cannot see how this family has been charged with shortcoming or error.. I won't bother trying to explain it..

Their "wrongdoing" in every aspect on this case is splattered on every page..

I'm sorry if you can't understand what a dictionary says, and how it applies here.



posted on Dec, 1 2011 @ 08:55 AM
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reply to post by gabby2011
 



We don't even KNOW what really happened.. but continue on with the bashing and looking for any little evidence that makes the parents look guilty. Its obvious this is what feeds your life at the moment, and who am I to take that pleasure away from you..right?


you misspoke, gabby!!
What you meant to say:

"We don't even KNOW what really happened.. but I WILL continue on with the bashing and looking for any little evidence that makes the OTHER MEMBERS OF THIS THREAD look guilty. Its obvious this is what feeds MY life at the moment, and who ARE YOU to take that pleasure away from ME...right?"

And then I'm sure you intended to add in some more about JUDGING OTHERS!!

You actually think your imaginary friend is somewhere holding Lisa on his lap and nodding in approval that YOU HAVE REPEATEDLY judged, condemned, blamed, accused, abused, misconstrued, criticized, ridiculed, name-called, cursed with bad karma, mocked, badgered, nitpicked, scoffed at, disrespected, discredited, invalidated, insulted, and ATTACKED the people who want Lisa's disappearance rectified and her perpetrator brought to justice!!

You feel GOOD about that??

Is that what he said to you in answer to your prayers?

You prayed: "Dear Jesus, should I continue to relentlessly judge, mock, ridicule, hate, bash and attack these people who continue to try to interact with me?"
And he said: "Yup. That's justice for Lisa. And while you're at it, defend this mother who entrusted her to my care. Very pleased with that. M'kay? Now, run along, gabby. You have work to do in my name. Pay no attention to common sense, intelligent critical thinking, expert opinion, or circumstantial evidence that might try to obscure your mission and confuse you. You know in your heart what happened, and what is right, and who we will be sending into the fires of hell, so you just hang in there and keep hating them and reminding them all. Yeah. Lisa's fine. She enjoys that."

Talk about blatant hypocrisy.



posted on Dec, 1 2011 @ 08:55 AM
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reply to post by gabby2011
 


An accusation is ' they murdered their baby' not ' what if they did or maybe they did'



posted on Dec, 1 2011 @ 09:09 AM
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post removed for serious violation of ATS Terms & Conditions



posted on Dec, 1 2011 @ 09:11 AM
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Originally posted by wildtimes
reply to post by gabby2011
 



We don't even KNOW what really happened.. but continue on with the bashing and looking for any little evidence that makes the parents look guilty. Its obvious this is what feeds your life at the moment, and who am I to take that pleasure away from you..right?


you misspoke, gabby!!
What you meant to say:

"We don't even KNOW what really happened.. but I WILL continue on with the bashing and looking for any little evidence that makes the OTHER MEMBERS OF THIS THREAD look guilty. Its obvious this is what feeds MY life at the moment, and who ARE YOU to take that pleasure away from ME...right?"

And then I'm sure you intended to add in some more about JUDGING OTHERS!!

You actually think your imaginary friend is somewhere holding Lisa on his lap and nodding in approval that YOU HAVE REPEATEDLY judged, condemned, blamed, accused, abused, misconstrued, criticized, ridiculed, name-called, cursed with bad karma, mocked, badgered, nitpicked, scoffed at, disrespected, discredited, invalidated, insulted, and ATTACKED the people who want Lisa's disappearance rectified and her perpetrator brought to justice!!

You feel GOOD about that??

Is that what he said to you in answer to your prayers?

You prayed: "Dear Jesus, should I continue to relentlessly judge, mock, ridicule, hate, bash and attack these people who continue to try to interact with me?"
And he said: "Yup. That's justice for Lisa. And while you're at it, defend this mother who entrusted her to my care. Very pleased with that. M'kay? Now, run along, gabby. You have work to do in my name. Pay no attention to common sense, intelligent critical thinking, expert opinion, or circumstantial evidence that might try to obscure your mission and confuse you. You know in your heart what happened, and what is right, and who we will be sending into the fires of hell, so you just hang in there and keep hating them and reminding them all. Yeah. Lisa's fine. She enjoys that."

Talk about blatant hypocrisy.





OOPS i was trying to do the little trick for quoting and once again, EPIC FAIL, so I'll go back to doing it copy paste way and thanks to ALL who have tried to assist me !

edit on 1-12-2011 by schmae because: (no reason given)



posted on Dec, 1 2011 @ 10:19 AM
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reply to post by wildtimes
 





You prayed: "Dear Jesus, should I continue to relentlessly judge, mock, ridicule, hate, bash and attack these people who continue to try to interact with me?" And he said: "Yup. That's justice for Lisa. And while you're at it, defend this mother who entrusted her to my care. Very pleased with that. M'kay? Now, run along, gabby. You have work to do in my name. Pay no attention to common sense, intelligent critical thinking, expert opinion, or circumstantial evidence that might try to obscure your mission and confuse you. You know in your heart what happened, and what is right, and who we will be sending into the fires of hell, so you just hang in there and keep hating them and reminding them all. Yeah. Lisa's fine. She enjoys that."


hardly think you know what my prayers are about.. and the above is a prime example of how you twist my words..

I never said I was holier.. but when I pray for lisa..I don't ever get a sense that I should dig up all the dirt on the irwins..and make them PAY..for something I am not even sure they have done.

For those Christians who think this is the way.. they make their choices..






edit on 1-12-2011 by gabby2011 because: (no reason given)



posted on Dec, 1 2011 @ 10:30 AM
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reply to post by OneisOne
 


Silo this reminded me of the heart break and anger I felt when I learned about Tyler Dasher. It wasn't the fact that his mom killed him that upset me so much, it was she left him on the side of the road. I can forgive the murder part, but I can not forgive treating him like a piece of garbage just to try and save herself.

Exactly the point I was driving for. The mistake of murder is one thing. It's treating a child like it’s worth less than a piece of trash after, in order to ‘save’ retribution that 'gets me' also.

It also sends a horrible message to those who would harm children. It sends the message that children worthless. And sometimes you can even get away with the getting rid of them and just 'get back to normal life' before even two months pass.


I do believe she died accidentally that night, but I don't believe a drunk Deborah could have covered it up on her own. That leaves me with two questions. Was she really drunk that night? Or what else happened that night that convinced friends/family to help her cover up an accidental death? It would be very hard for me (if not next to impossible) to justify disposing of a baby's body just to cover for someone.

The only justification I can find? If one of the boys had something to do with her untimely death. Or even Deborah for that matter. I can easily see Jeremy returning home and as the ‘head of the household’ feeling ultimately responsible. I can almost hear him saying, ‘I should have told her not to drink tonight’ and the like. All the self recrimination any loving parent would immediately heap upon themselves.

From there? We know he fought ‘viciously’ for his son. It’s very easy to believe that one, either ‘someone’ already had disposed of Lisa using the ‘I did it to save the family’ line, the guilt line ‘If I hadn’t of done it they would have taken our sons.’... Or for Jeremy to ‘dispose’ of Lisa in order to achieve the same end. To ‘save’ the family.
It’s heartbreaking, sure, but it isn’t so heartbreaking that justice should not be served.

peace


edit on 1-12-2011 by silo13 because: spelling



posted on Dec, 1 2011 @ 12:15 PM
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reply to post by silo13
 


''''It’s heartbreaking, sure, but it isn’t so heartbreaking that justice should not be served. '''


EXACTLY! Accidents happen and people do understand and had she not been 'drunk' she probably would have called 911 right then.........or whenever she got a phone turned on..........or used the neighbors..............or her own? BUT to cover it up is where the crime comes in. And what if Lisa had an accident and could have been saved with PROMPT medical attention. There is failure to render aid and that may have been what happened.
It's what happened after the accident that made it a crime.



posted on Dec, 1 2011 @ 01:05 PM
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reply to post by schmae
 


It's what happened after the accident that made it a crime.

That's what I've been going over time and again. I've been trying to 'run the scenario' through my 'defend no matter what' program.

Lisa is (already) dead.
Jeremy has a family to think of.
Nothing will bring Lisa back.
Calling the police 'might' destroy the entire family.

At that moment and in the moment of stress? After a LONG day and a longer night or work. Wow. I can almost understand him for making that decision. (If he did of course).

Problem is - the family is destroyed anyway.

BUT - take Jeremy out of it?

An accident happens and Lisa's discovered on the bedroom floor - already 'gone'.
Oh my GOD NO ONE CAN FIND OUT ABOUT IT!
Call someone to 'GET RID OF IT' (Not 'Her' 'IT) - Or, take a quick walk to the River and CHUCK IT IN with the cell phones.

Nawwww that just beyond comprehension.

peace


edit on 1-12-2011 by silo13 because: spacing



posted on Dec, 1 2011 @ 01:18 PM
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Originally posted by silo13
reply to post by schmae
 


It's what happened after the accident that made it a crime.

That's what I've been going over time and again. I've been trying to 'run the scenario' through my 'defend no matter what' program.

Lisa is (already) dead.
Jeremy has a family to think of.
Nothing will bring Lisa back.
Calling the police 'might' destroy the entire family.

At that moment and in the moment of stress? After a LONG day and a longer night or work. Wow. I can almost understand him for making that decision. (If he did of course).

Problem is - the family is destroyed anyway.

BUT - take Jeremy out of it?

An accident happens and Lisa's discovered on the bedroom floor - already 'gone'.
Oh my GOD NO ONE CAN FIND OUT ABOUT IT!
Call someone to 'GET RID OF IT' (Not 'Her' 'IT) - Or, take a quick walk to the River and CHUCK IT IN with the cell phones.

Nawwww that just beyond comprehension.

peace


edit on 1-12-2011 by silo13 because: spacing


and thats "assuming" they are guilty.. the fact remains..that they could very well be innocent..there are enough clues and evidence that point to others being involved.

Sad that you have made up your mind on the guilt part, and deciding the whys and hows already.



posted on Dec, 1 2011 @ 01:22 PM
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reply to post by gabby2011
 


Really no sadder than you assuming the police are guilty of a coverup or incompetence or something more sinister. Everyone's entitled to their opinion here but of the 2 parties who may be guilty of something, ONLY ONE PARTY HAS A MISSING CHILD!
I feel an accident happend and you've said yourself you feel an accidednt MAY have happened, more than oonce you've said it. So how come if someone else says it you point fingers. We're speculating and thinking out loud. That's what we all do here.


As for Jeremy , for some reason, I still do not think he's involved, not even in the cover up phase. I think he may know NOW what happened, but on the night in question I think he was at work being a diligent husband and dad and came home and BELIEVED whatever was told to him.



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