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Lisa Irwin - Missing - One Year Later

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posted on Nov, 23 2011 @ 08:18 AM
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Originally posted by gabby2011
You're wrong about me implying the police from the get go.. but it doesn't surprise me that you have your blinders on ..

Uhm no I am not, and others have pointed this out to you as well, yet you just keeping ignoring it. Your post above this one also contradicts what you are stating here. Corruption, incompetence, all words you used in this case.


Originally posted by gabby2011
and just because I don't understand the methods , etc... doesn't mean the police aren't missing something..or hiding something..

Actually because you dont understand the methods you are continually trying to make claims not supported by the evedence or facts present. You are questioning the manner they are doing their jobs, while you have absolutely no understand of the job or the laws involved.



Originally posted by gabby2011
As far as the appocalypse goes, now you want to add exaggerations to your list.

That was to highlight how overly dramatic you get in your claims and accusations.



Originally posted by gabby2011
Does it bother you that much when people don't kiss the ground the police walk on?.. .. is your cop ego so badly bruised by that?

It bothers me when people who dont have a clue about how law enforcement works, how the law works, how individual rights work, decide to take people to task simply because they are ignorant. If you really think this is about ego or ass kissing, then you are more lost, in denial and woefully ignorant than I origionally thought

What corrupt actions have the police taken in this case?
What laws have the police broken in this case?
What was the result of interviews with the Erwins?
What was the result of their interviews with neighbors and people in the area?
What was the result of their reviews of video evidence?
What was the result of the search warrants executed on their house?

Please, by all means since you are the expert on this, answer these questions. Dazzle us with your indepth analysis and investigative skills.

Since all police are corrupt and incompetent according to you, show them what we are doing wrong.




posted on Nov, 23 2011 @ 08:30 AM
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reply to post by gabby2011
 


Please take the time to list all of the corruption, mistakes, inadequacies, incompetent actions law enforcement has done in the Baby Lisa case.



posted on Nov, 23 2011 @ 08:52 AM
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Why was the media told not to film the FBI dogs?
A dog and it's handler are a team, they spend months in training.
Why was hearsay accepted in the search warrant for the family home? The FBI handler did not testify in court, as to what the dog did or did not do.



posted on Nov, 23 2011 @ 08:55 AM
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reply to post by Xcathdra
 



Since all police are corrupt and incompetent according to you, show them what we are doing wrong.

I think that's Dav1d's job...and he appears to be on holiday.


But I'd like to add, while she's at it, gabby would do well to show how all behavioral health professionals are corrupt and incompetent, too...and tell us what we are doing wrong....

but, uh, she can't.

Xcathdra, what happens now that the command center is closed...will they push for those interviews, or does this become a drawn-out mystery like the Ramsey case?

It's so idiotic to think that those first hours of grilling would have given investigators "everything" they needed...when SINCE THEN there have been PLENTY of developments, persons of interest, twists and turns that the parents might have been able to assist in decoding...

I read elsewhere that the FBI were knocking on doors as far away as New York, following up on leads or "sightings" ... will they continue to do so?

Or perhaps again, this "shut down" is orchestrated to make the guilty party feel more relaxed and slip up?? (Kind of akin to tuning out hysterical, unstable trolls in a thread, who refuse to accept education, show respect, or to develop insight. No use in repeatedly waking rabid vermin or sifting through the same piles they drop. They're just not gonna get it, or clean up after themselves.)



posted on Nov, 23 2011 @ 08:59 AM
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Originally posted by Xcathdra
reply to post by gabby2011
 


Please take the time to list all of the corruption, mistakes, inadequacies, incompetent actions law enforcement has done in the Baby Lisa case.


I wasn't talking about the baby Lisa case.. just talking about law enforcement as a whole.. they do make mistakes..which I'm sure you are aware of..

As far as the baby Lisa case.. how do you expect to have proof..when no proof is available? They hold all the cards..

All I know is baby lisa is not found..and no suspects in the case??

Very easy to ask people for proof knowing full well the real proof would never be there for the average joe to get a hold of.


edit on 23-11-2011 by gabby2011 because: (no reason given)



posted on Nov, 23 2011 @ 09:01 AM
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Originally posted by Dav1d
Why was the media told not to film the FBI dogs?
A dog and it's handler are a team, they spend months in training.
Why was hearsay accepted in the search warrant for the family home? The FBI handler did not testify in court, as to what the dog did or did not do.




Anytime a dog is in use (tracking / kadaver) people are kept clear because of scent contamination. Secondly, its an ongoing criminal investigation.

Please show where hear say was used to obtain a warrant.

There is nothing to testify to in court since there are no charges, so please clarify this comment.



posted on Nov, 23 2011 @ 09:11 AM
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Originally posted by wildtimes
Xcathdra, what happens now that the command center is closed...will they push for those interviews, or does this become a drawn-out mystery like the Ramsey case?

All a command center is is a central place to coordinate the investigation from. Just because its shut down doesnt mean the investigation is overwith. When you run out of leads / case grows cold its difficult to justify keeping those types of resources in place. Kansas City did not shut down, and crime did not come to a halt when this incident occured. They will keep following up as they come in, but until then what are they suppose to do?



Originally posted by wildtimes
It's so idiotic to think that those first hours of grilling would have given investigators "everything" they needed...when SINCE THEN there have been PLENTY of developments, persons of interest, twists and turns that the parents might have been able to assist in decoding...

The first 24/48 hours of an abduction are critical. Once it goes beyond that the chances of locating a person / locating a person alive drop dramatically.



Originally posted by wildtimes
I read elsewhere that the FBI were knocking on doors as far away as New York, following up on leads or "sightings" ... will they continue to do so?

As leads come in sure. The Police in San Francisco as well as a few counties still receeive tips regarding the Zodiac Killer, and those leads are followed up on.




Originally posted by wildtimes
Or perhaps again, this "shut down" is orchestrated to make the guilty party feel more relaxed and slip up?? (Kind of akin to tuning out hysterical, unstable trolls in a thread, who refuse to accept education, show respect, or to develop insight. No use in repeatedly waking rabid vermin or sifting through the same piles they drop. They're just not gonna get it, or clean up after themselves.)



posted on Nov, 23 2011 @ 09:12 AM
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reply to post by Xcathdra
 





Uhm no I am not, and others have pointed this out to you as well, yet you just keeping ignoring it. Your post above this one also contradicts what you are stating here. Corruption, incompetence, all words you used in this case.



Actually it doesn't.. when I said you have blinders on I was referring to the implication that I thought police were at fault from the "get go"..which I didn't. It wasn't implicating police at all till david pointed out some facts, and my suspicion was aroused as to how well this department deals with missing children.

You jumped into this thread way too late to implicate what I have been doing from the get go.. so take accountability for that ..please.




Please, by all means since you are the expert on this, answer these questions. Dazzle us with your indepth analysis and investigative skills.


Once again you choose to ridicule..and make assumptions.. I have never said I was an expert..

What I have said is that police have been known to be corrupt.. and we don't get the info that matters.. we only see the evidence that no one has been charged with the crime..and so far they have no suspects.




Since all police are corrupt and incompetent according to you, show them what we are doing wrong.



There you go again..putting words in my mouth..I have said not ALL police are corrupt..and not all are incompetent..I know there are good officers out there...

But I also know there are bad ones.. and what they are involved with, and willing to cover up for is a question I hope we all get answered some day.

You have proven to me by your "blanket" statements of what I infer..such as using the implications that I said "all"..when I never have..that you are just another blind person..unwilling to look at the facts.. and make assumptions..

Have fun with that.. your accusatory and bullying tactics will not work with me, or anyone who cares to see the truth ..



posted on Nov, 23 2011 @ 09:15 AM
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reply to post by wildtimes
 





But I'd like to add, while she's at it, gabby would do well to show how all behavioral health professionals are corrupt and incompetent, too...and tell us what we are doing wrong....



another one who puts words in my mouth..

I have never said all behavioral scientists are corrupt and incompetent.. but I sure will say that some are..because its simply true..



posted on Nov, 23 2011 @ 09:19 AM
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reply to post by gabby2011
 


Obfuscate much?

seriously? your tongue could uncork a wine bottle.

You make all these claims and accusations and when called out, you back track and try to spin. You undermine your own arguments left and right.

Please by all emans tell us what Law enforcement has done wrong / screwed up in the Baby Lisa case.
edit on 23-11-2011 by Xcathdra because: (no reason given)

edit on 23-11-2011 by Xcathdra because: (no reason given)



posted on Nov, 23 2011 @ 09:22 AM
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reply to post by Xcathdra
 


what..does the truth hurt too much?

and like I said.. we don"t ..and can't have the evidence that the police have screwed up..

the case of the mother going to jail for two years for killing her child is proof enough that the police can indeed be incompetent.. and do not always get the right person.

So much for "we would rather a guilty person go free than convict an innocent person" crap.






edit on 23-11-2011 by gabby2011 because: (no reason given)



posted on Nov, 23 2011 @ 09:25 AM
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Originally posted by gabby2011
reply to post by Xcathdra
 


what..does the truth hurt too much?



The only thing that hurts is the apparent failure of our educational system. If I were you, I would demand a refund because apprently you got cheated.

Care to answer any of the questions asked, or are you just going to resort to name calling because you cant support your claims?



posted on Nov, 23 2011 @ 09:33 AM
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Originally posted by Xcathdra

Originally posted by gabby2011
reply to post by Xcathdra
 


what..does the truth hurt too much?



The only thing that hurts is the apparent failure of our educational system. If I were you, I would demand a refund because apprently you got cheated.

Care to answer any of the questions asked, or are you just going to resort to name calling because you cant support your claims?


I have answered the questions... you just refuse to see that..instead you choose to bully me into giving information that you well know is not accessible to me.

Perhaps you should be the one who worries about resorting to name calling.. and cheap shots.. your posts to me are full of them..as well as untruths..

care to answer for that? the accusations of me saying "all" when in fact there are many posts on this thread where I specifically say "not all".


Why do I think you would never apologize for putting untruths out there.. ?

Keep up the snide comments..only shows us the real you.



posted on Nov, 23 2011 @ 09:34 AM
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Johnny Chiviarolletti,, sp* Deborah Bradley's maternal uncle, has said some very interesting things on FB last night. He's been quite a talker all along, pleading for Deb to tell where the body is etc and confess so the truth can set her free. I really tend to think he may be a drinker, family history for one, and because he doesnt' talk like someone with much sense half the time. Is he telling the truth , who knows?
BUT last night he wrote..........words to the affect " An accident happened, re: baby Lisa. Deb called 'all the family' asking for help. The family refused and hung up and told her to call the cops. Deb, in desperation called ' the dopers' for help in disposing of body. She was weighted down and thrown in the river' ..........

Is this true? Could it be? Certainly could, but again this guy talks like he's half baked half the time, so who knows. Why would an uncle LIE about a family member? This family has a long history of dysfunction, so I guess there are many reasons. Also I'd like to know is this an uncle who was close with Deb? Sees her regularly and talks regularly? Or is this an uncle that she only talks to every 8 years when they HAVE to. If the latter, then he may just be sucking up his 15 minutes of fame. If what he's saying is true then maybe all these family members that Deb called then called the cops immediately, then that would easily explain why the cops have been looking right at DEB as the bad guy in this crime. But , this guy could be totally blowing smoke.
He took down the posts almost immediately but not before many many fb'ers got screen shots !!!



posted on Nov, 23 2011 @ 09:40 AM
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Originally posted by Xcathdra

Originally posted by Dav1d
Why was the media told not to film the FBI dogs?
A dog and it's handler are a team, they spend months in training.
Why was hearsay accepted in the search warrant for the family home? The FBI handler did not testify in court, as to what the dog did or did not do.




Anytime a dog is in use (tracking / kadaver) people are kept clear because of scent contamination. Secondly, its an ongoing criminal investigation.


I see so it's a major problem for the cadaver dogs getting confused from the sent of people being near? Of course this is misdirection, at best as the press does have access to telephoto lens. They where asked not to record the dogs working! Certainly the KCPD had no issue with having the carpet they paraded around the home photograph or with the apparent x-ray plates...


Please show where hear say was used to obtain a warrant.


I suggest you actually read the affidavit (links are in this thread if you need them) the handler did not swear to what the dog did or did not do. An officer of KCPD did, hence second hand at best.


There is nothing to testify to in court since there are no charges, so please clarify this comment.


The so called "hit of the dog" on the so called scent of a dead body was one of the things in the affidavit used to justify the search warrant.



posted on Nov, 23 2011 @ 09:42 AM
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reply to post by gabby2011
 



Have fun with that.. your accusatory and bullying tactics will not work with me


Now THERE is where you are an expert, gabby! ^^^
Accusing and bullying!?? Nono, that's your style.
Wow. Oh, and the back-PEDALING (that you constantly accuse people of, who --- how did you say it? --- "speculate and then turn around and say they haven't MADE UP THEIR MINDS.")

That's NOT backpedaling. That's "keeping an open mind and reserving the right to decide later."

Can't have that, now, can we? People who are willing to be educated by experts who by all evidence appear to be genuinely concerned about this little girl, who stretch themselves to tolerate ludicrous assaults, and stretch themselves outside of their COMFORT ZONES to try to see ALL the angles and to be RESPECTFUL.

No, backpedaling is, for example, when one consistently says the cops on the LISA IRWIN case have messed up, been lazy, inefficient, harassing bullies who don't know what they're doing...and THEN TURN AROUND and say "I wasn't talking about the cops in the Lisa Irwin case."

Gods above, gabby, DO YOU HEAR YOURSELF?

Xcathdra has only called you out and very clearly asked you to explain yourself and admit to your BS. Hmmm. Deborah has also been "called out" to explain. but....she REFUSES!

Hmmm. .. Disrespectful of the officers and investigators, refusing to do as they have asked, refusing to let Lisa's brothers be intereviewed (for really LAME reasons), stonewalling local media as well, all of it...SPIN.
Unless you can PROVE otherwise, explain THAT, without going back to your tired story of "we don't know what we would do." and blaming the police. Assume for just ONE MOMENT, just for a count of ten, that the police have done everything absolutely thoroughly and correctly. WHY won't Lisa's MOTHER go in and talk with them?

Oh, I don't actually expect you to, gabby. I know just the thought of Deborah being held accountable for her behavior makes you froth at the mouth. And "how dare I say that?? It's not a dare. It's an accurate assessment. You have done to the MOST of the rest of the posters on this thread and to police and behavioral professionals EXACTLY what upset you about how others have looked to Deborah, which was, first and foremost, your big beef.!!!










edit on 23-11-2011 by wildtimes because: (no reason given)



posted on Nov, 23 2011 @ 09:43 AM
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reply to post by gabby2011
 


So then the answer would be no, you cannot provide information to support your accusations that there is incompetence / corruption / lack of doing ones job in the Baby Lisa case.

You should go back then and edit your psots where you make those accusations and should refrain from doing it in the future inless you have proof of it.

Ironic though that you get upset when anything occurs to the Erwins yet you refuse to extend the same rights to the police.

When you decide to bring real information to the thread instead of derailing it with your accusations and personal attacks, you and dave can have a conversation with each other.



posted on Nov, 23 2011 @ 09:45 AM
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Originally posted by Xcathdra

Originally posted by gabby2011
reply to post by Xcathdra
 


what..does the truth hurt too much?



The only thing that hurts is the apparent failure of our educational system. If I were you, I would demand a refund because apprently you got cheated.

Care to answer any of the questions asked, or are you just going to resort to name calling because you cant support your claims?


Really ..just because I'm smart enough to know that all educated and professional people are not necessarily good at what they do.. or have selfish agendas ?



posted on Nov, 23 2011 @ 09:47 AM
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Originally posted by gabby2011

Why do I think you would never apologize for putting untruths out there.. ?

Keep up the snide comments..only shows us the real you.



Well you have had an excellent example of just how poor LE can be, luckily NOT all LE is as closed minded, and as willing to assume as some have been so willing to demonstrate, here.



posted on Nov, 23 2011 @ 09:49 AM
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reply to post by schmae
 


If that were true, then why would those family members who were contacted who hung up not report that information to the police?

We need to find out the relationship between the poster of that information and Debroah. If they have a history of not getting along, the comments on facebook might be just someone trying to stir the pot. If it was posted then the police would be having a conversation with that individual.



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