Lisa Irwin - Missing - One Year Later

Originally posted by schmae
reply to post by gabby2011

 

'''they had some sort of distrust for this lawyer who was willing to work for free, or they were told by another lawyer that this lawyer wasn't working in their best interest..'''

This is what I think Gab. The big shot lawyer came in and got rid of little local lawyer lady so that he could call the shots. I also wonder if she was questioning some of his tactics or ideas and he just got rid of her. Irwin family looks and says H'es big time and famous etc, surely he's got to be a better lawyer. Could be HE even told them, 'they're going to try to hang you for this and this little cyndy short will NOT be able to save your a##'

yes..we could speculate on and on.. but until some of these people actually write about what went on..(and that would have to be after a trial..I'm assuming).. I don't think we'll know the whole truth... from all the perspectives involved.

If this case is a jumbled mess to those who have inside info.. its even more of a jumbled mess to us outsiders.. getting false info, with insinuations to what was implied,etc.

Originally posted by schmae
There are 5 components or "PLAYERS" in this story.

Law enforcement

Irwin Family

Lawyers

Media

Public.

I think we have spent the first many pages critiquing and pulling apart everything we could find on the family. We absorbed every word from every source about them.

I think we all are distrustful of media from the word go but have come to realize more lately how very 'fast and loose' with the facts they are playing.

We've given a real discriminating look at Law Enforcement, and David, thank you ( not sarcasm) for pointing out a lot of the mistakes and/or inconsistencies with them. THAT HAS BEEN A VALID TOOL.

We are the public left scratching our heads about what the HECK all these other parties have been up to.

Lawyers : it's only just beginning to look like the lawyers may have some explaining to do with some of the statement they've made. I wanted to look into this and ponder it a bit more, with everyone's input.

The other groups, family, le and media have already been raked over the coals back and forth by all of us.
Maybe the lawyers of the family need the same scrutiny.

I hope this clears it up without offending anyone .

oops left out what may indeed be the most important group, the band of 8 ...........

edit on 19-11-2011 by schmae because: (no reason given)

Great post!!! you must have been writing it while I was responding to one you made..

Thank you for clearing up so well your views..as well as your acknowledgement of the important facts david has brought to this thread.

Your post really hit on the realities of this case.. again thank you..

Originally posted by schmae
reply to post by Dav1d

 

''''Yes a discussion board...
Where discussion is unwelcome if you happen to have a different POV.
Where discussion is not about understanding what may have been happening
Where when you point out that you are being attributed with things you never said, you are told to stop contributing. ''''

Qualify these statements please? Because they are ridiculously untrue. I've discussed many times with you the LE discrpencies AD NAUSEUM without attacking you. So how is that unwelcome? When any one makes a post that is not about attacking LE, you insert LE attacks into it. It's clear you are very down on LE and then declare you're not down on LE, that's now what you said, etc etc.
When a post is about whether or not a lawyer might be mishandling some PR work for the parents, that's what the post is about. That particular thought had nothing to do with LE, but you think it did.

What was attributed to yuo that you didn't say? Who told you to stop contributing? You said ' are we to assume you don't care about what caused this' because I wanted to see what others thought about whether or not LAWYERS have some responsibility in the fiasco we are watching unfold.
Since everything I type makes you upset and want to throw barbs, then yea ignore it and post on something else. Thats not saying STOP contributing. If all you want to contribute are LE attacks, then that's fine. But when its' totally off topic to a post, maybe make it a new post instead of a ' reply' to a post about lawyers. See?

Hmm...
I believe you can not honestly examine the lawyers comments in a vacuum. I posted what about that the failure to acknowledge that the FBI requested a delay, is that fact an attack on LE? At that point you come back and post that it is not about LE. later it is not about Deborah or Jeremy. You ask that I not post to you.

From my perspective if I wish to post to you I'll use your name in my post. If I wish to post about a post/respond to a post I'll quote the post. Or at least the section of the post I'm responding to, as some members post so much that their is no room left when quoting them.

I don't know what you intend. I do know that what I heard is a request to not comment upon your post! This is a public forum. And if one can stay within the rules, all are suppose to be welcome here. Because people from all over the world can post here, I asked if English was a second language for you, willing to give some of our communications issues to not understanding the language in some way. To give you the benefit of doubt.

You wish to start a thread about how bad the lawyers are go for it. I'll do my darnedest to ignore it. This thread is not about that topic.

Perhaps they should simple re-title this thread to let's bash Deborah and Jeremy, there are some interested in what actually might have happen, not in simply adding more hurt to a family, one needs to assume is already hurting.

Originally posted by Dav1d
Hmm...
I believe you can not honestly examine the lawyers comments in a vacuum. I posted what about that the failure to acknowledge that the FBI requested a delay, is that fact an attack on LE? At that point you come back and post that it is not about LE. later it is not about Deborah or Jeremy. You ask that I not post to you.

From my perspective if I wish to post to you I'll use your name in my post. If I wish to post about a post/respond to a post I'll quote the post. Or at least the section of the post I'm responding to, as some members post so much that their is no room left when quoting them.

I don't know what you intend. I do know that what I heard is a request to not comment upon your post! This is a public forum. And if one can stay within the rules, all are suppose to be welcome here. Because people from all over the world can post here, I asked if English was a second language for you, willing to give some of our communications issues to not understanding the language in some way. To give you the benefit of doubt.

You wish to start a thread about how bad the lawyers are go for it. I'll do my darnedest to ignore it. This thread is not about that topic.

Perhaps they should simple re-title this thread to let's bash Deborah and Jeremy, there are some interested in what actually might have happen, not in simply adding more hurt to a family, one needs to assume is already hurting.

Or they can simply leave the thread title as it is (it has changed multiple times due to the age). I have read back and there has been *bashing* of everyone in the case, including the public and people on this thread. No one is really without suspicion in the case (not talking about the people in this thread).

IWOH

Nancy Grace has an agenda as demonstrated by this:

CLAYTON • St. Louis County police dispatchers were inundated with more than 200 phone calls in a half hour Thursday night after the nationally televised "Nancy Grace" show told viewers to call and voice their opinions about the Tyler Dasher homicide case.
"Let your voice be heard. On behalf of this 13-month-old baby boy," host Nancy Grace told viewers, displeased that Tyler's mother was facing a "light" second-degree murder charge instead of first-degree murder.


Read more:

Should we accept anything at face value, from someone willing to profit off the death of a child? Someone willing to use the death to stir public opinion?

Originally posted by Dav1d
Nancy Grace has an agenda as demonstrated by this:

CLAYTON • St. Louis County police dispatchers were inundated with more than 200 phone calls in a half hour Thursday night after the nationally televised "Nancy Grace" show told viewers to call and voice their opinions about the Tyler Dasher homicide case.
"Let your voice be heard. On behalf of this 13-month-old baby boy," host Nancy Grace told viewers, displeased that Tyler's mother was facing a "light" second-degree murder charge instead of first-degree murder.


Read more:

Should we accept anything at face value, from someone willing to profit off the death of a child? Someone willing to use the death to stir public opinion?

That's a good question. When I travel, I see Nancy Graces tv show on while I am at the hotel, I do not usually watch it when I am home.

I think we should take the media's words with a grain of salt. We have to rely on them many times for news and information, but also have to remember that they still put their version (or spin) on the report for ratings. As per the above, that is interesting. I think (my opinion) it would have been better served to ask the viewers to call their representatives about this rather than the local dispatch number.

IWOH

What about the flipside here?
She is "national" and only 200 extra calls, and 60 didn't even talk? Does that say something also?

Originally posted by Dav1d
What about the flipside here?
She is "national" and only 200 extra calls, and 60 didn't even talk? Does that say something also?

Good question. Maybe some people felt the charge for that case was enough? Or many of the national people did not call the DA's office as to let the local people affected by it call (or they could have called the DA's office and when the automated system took over figured they could call during normal business hours?). Even though it is a national show, how many people from St. Louis watch it.

Couldn't tell you why the 60 people did not talk or just hung up. Maybe they figured that it is the prosecutor that is doing the charging? Maybe they thought they would get voice mail and got a live person and then decided not to talk?

That would be many questions for St. Louis.

IWOH

While it is possible to focus our interest on just the lawyers, and find fault in them, ignoring all other players. That seems lets than helpful unless one wishes to coach defense lawyers.

Perhaps a better example is to focus on what Police did right in Tyler case? How if indeed they behaved different than police in KC? Are the police professionals, or are they amateurs who simply depend on luck? Everyone wants Deborah to confess, yet after extensive interviews she has yet to confess. In Tyler case they have an arrest in less than 24 hours... Can we learn something valid here?

reply to post by Dav1d

Should we accept anything at face value, from someone willing to profit off the death of a child? Someone willing to use the death to stir public opinion?

Good point..

and there is something "off' about nancy grace.. as far as being a lawyer...and wanting justice.

If there was ever anyone in the media that would seem to work for 'the inside media track" for the illuminati type circles.. its her.

I know ..off topic.. but TPTB , and their circles do use the media for their own agendas..and you can't help but wonder what part in all this they play

I was looking at the News Persons Facebook page and did notice he linked to NBC for a page that has many resources on it from the beginning to the end. If anyone wants to scan it in case there is something they have not seen, it is:

NBC News

IWOH

Six months on and the local police are still looking for help from the community,

Aurora Police are hoping this new video will help them figure out what happened to 7 year-old Timmothy Pitzen.

Previous surveillance video shows Amy Fry-Pitzen taking Timmothy out from school on May 11th.

The new video shows them at Key Lime Cove Water Park in Gurnee, and Kalahari Resorts in Wisconsin Dells on May 12th. The two also went to Brookfield Zoo. There's also new surveillance video that shows Fry-Pitzen entering and leaving Sullivan's Foods in Winnebago.

Fry-Pitzen later killed herself at a motel in Rockford. She left a note that said Timmothy was safe.
Read more:

Forensic evidence reveals where Amy stopped her SUV before taking her life. Scientists working with the Aurora Police Department believe she pulled off an asphalt road onto a gravel road.

Authorities believe that gravel road is near a grassy meadow or field and is nowhere near trees or corn. Both Queen Anne's lace and black mustard plants grow in the same area. They can be found in Lee County and Whiteside County.

Unfortunately, police say these new developments don't warrant another ground search like the last one done in Ogle County. The two were also seen at Sullivan’s foods in Winnebago. The cashier tells us Amy checked out alone at about 8:00. She was then found dead at the Rockford Inn the next morning. James says he hopes the timeline will help police find his son.
Read more:

One of the things the police here has done, is collect evidence. They have forensic evidence of where she was. Did the KCPD, get evidence of where the family cars had been? Of where Deborah's shoes had been?

reply to post by Dav1d


Nowhere did I say don't post to me. That is you putting WORDS INTO MY MOUTH for about the umpteenth time. This is why I wonder why you ask me if I understand the language. I said if my posts upset you so much don't read them and don't respond to them. Since when you read them you have to skip over half the post , thus invalidating its meaning, and then post a reply that has nothing to do with what was said originally, then maybe you should not. When I post about lawyers and you're upset I didn't mention LE...........that post was not about LE. Everyone of your posts is about LE and their poor job and yet you call me close minded when I offer up some other parties who may have a hand in the circus. It's very possible LE has dropped the ball on this. If that is true, it does not EXCLUDE all other parties from any guilt of any kind. Do you agree?
Truly if you know for a fact that LE screwed up and that's the end of the story and the irwins and their lawyers are innocent of any wrong doing , then I don't know why you are still here. You've solved the case.
The rest of us are trying to discuss all /other/ any possibiliites to explain what's going on.
It's unfair for you to cry victim of me saying DONT POST to me when there's nowhere that I said that or even implied it. Take responsibility for what you've said . I've apologized several times for things I felt I misunderstood or misspoke about and this one is NOT one of them.

reply to post by gabby2011


I gotta admit I used to like her show,, I think because it was about the only show a few years back that consistently covered missing kids and missing persons in depth. After the Melinda Duckette thing I kinda fell
off the NG bandwagon. Now when I see her, she makes my neck hair stand.

Originally posted by schmae
reply to post by Dav1d

 

I wont' reply i n kind like your accusing me of not knowing the english language and not understanding what words mean. If you do NOT want to read my post and understand what it is about, then just don't reply to it.
I said nothing about the irwins . I'm talking about their lawyers.
Do words have meanings? Do names mean anything? Can yuo understand the difference between the family and their lawyers or are they now ONE entity in your mind?

And what would be the meaning of "...just don't reply to it."? Just how should I take that? Clearly you don't wish to explain your position to me. And my opinions are unwanted. This is a discussion board.

reply to post by Dav1d


LMAO do the words before ' just dont reply to it' mean anything to you ? This is the very thing you accuse others of doing and you do it in just about every post. If you have no interest in reading what I say and not just eveyr 4th word of what I say then, yea just dont reply.

Apparently you think no one can post anything without including something negative about the KCPD. Thus my post about lawyers upset you because it was only about lawyers. And apparently my post explaing all the players and why I think lawyers need a look at now got ovelooked as well.
There are debate forums all over the web. Perhaps you'd enjoy them more than this sort of forum.

Originally posted by schmae
reply to post by Dav1d

 

Nowhere did I say don't post to me. That is you putting WORDS INTO MY MOUTH for about the umpteenth time. This is why I wonder why you ask me if I understand the language. I said if my posts upset you so much don't read them and don't respond to them.

You ask me not to respond to your post, what does that exactly mean?

Since when you read them you have to skip over half the post , thus invalidating its meaning, and then post a reply that has nothing to do with what was said originally, then maybe you should not.

Should not exactly what?

You posted that the lawyer said the boys would be interview, and where not, and where not the next week.

I responded that the FBI asked for the delay....

Then you accuse me of not replying to your post and ask me not to reply!!!

When I post about lawyers and you're upset I didn't mention LE...........that post was not about LE. Everyone of your posts is about LE and their poor job and yet you call me close minded when I offer up some other parties who may have a hand in the circus.

That is a lie. One needs to read only this page, to find out everyone of my post is NOT about LE!

It's very possible LE has dropped the ball on this. If that is true, it does not EXCLUDE all other parties from any guilt of any kind.

That is a fallacy a straw dog argument. It is NOT my position!

Truly if you know for a fact that LE screwed up and that's the end of the story and the irwins and their lawyers are innocent of any wrong doing , then I don't know why you are still here. You've solved the case.

And you see this as welcoming to this forum?

The rest of us are trying to discuss all /other/ any possibiliites to explain what's going on.
It's unfair for you to cry victim of me saying DONT POST to me when there's nowhere that I said that or even implied it. Take responsibility for what you've said . I've apologized several times for things I felt I misunderstood or misspoke about and this one is NOT one of them.

Right this certain express how happy you are for me to post here.. (Sarcasm off)

Originally posted by Dav1d



One of the things the police here has done, is collect evidence. They have forensic evidence of where she was. Did the KCPD, get evidence of where the family cars had been? Of where Deborah's shoes had been?

edit on 19-11-2011 by Dav1d because: (no reason given)

This is interesting. From what we have been showed and have seen on live views, there was forensic evidence taken. As far as the questions about the cars and the shoes, I guess we will not know until the case is resolved (if there are no orders prohibiting the releasing of information). Unless someone here has been working with the local police and FBI, we can only speculate if the two items above were probed.

IWOH

reply to post by Dav1d

That is a lie. One needs to read only this page, to find out everyone of my post is NOT about LE!

I decided to be "one" who did this ^^^^.

The ONLY posts you made that were NOT about LE sucking, were the ones where you were completely OFF TOPIC and ATTACKING schmae, and DENYING your own part in the hostility. Your ceaseless word-twisting and accusations, double-talk and out-of-context allegations (not only to other members, but relating to media snips as well) are NOT welcome here, Dav1d!! Get a clue!

You have made your point. Ad nauseum. You invited a uniformed LEO to participate, and then when that intelligent, thoughtful, and articulate person called you out for your belligerence and refusal to be respectful, you attacked HIM! The LEO YOU BROUGHT INTO THE THREAD!!

And he pointed that out, and you then dissed him entirely.
It is disgraceful. The only thing you want to do on here, or hear on here, is condemnation of police, and if not ALL police, then the KCPD. And you are talking about something which you are only observing from the outside, like the rest of us.

And for you to turn around and DENY that that is NOT your agenda is patently laughable, or insane.
You have "hammered your point home" and in addition offended some very worthwhile members. What else do you want?
Please, as schmae suggests, just leave if you can't be civil and repectful. Oh, wait, I mean BECAUSE you can't, or won't, be civil and respectful.

For a new member you certainly are not practicing any kind of diplomacy or "entry level" decorum.

THE THREAD IS ABOUT LISA!! It is not about YOU or your obstinate opinions and cop-advice. You stated you want to be "the idea guy", to offer suggestions to the "incompetent", "amateur" police. A policeman even came here. Turned out he wasn't incompetent, or amateur. Instead, he rebutted your rationale and educated everyone. And then, you attacked him, just as you have attacked EVERYONE who isn't willing to put up with your crap!!

You are out of your league. Go start another thread in Social Issues if all you want to do is cop-bust. Oh, wait, you already did! And didn't get much attention. Makes you wonder why not, doesn't it??
Oh, no, of course not. Because in YOUR MIND you are the only one who makes sense.

And I don't even care if this post gets removed, or I get a wrist slap and big roadsign. This needed to be said, in public, in defense of not only myself but every other member here who has ATTEMPTED to talk sense with you.

Language barrier my backside!!
You're being belligerent, obtuse, and behaving like a troll. If you are NOT a troll, or autistic, then knock it off!!
Okay? You are wasting all of our time, and you have FAR PASSED the point of redeeming yourself IN MY OPINION. There is no more you can say to try to justify yourself or to prove your point. You're done. Movie's over. We got it. We know what you think. And that you'll deny you think it, and try to make it out like everyone is deliberately misunderstanding you, or can't understand English. We know you'll do that, too.

I have no more interest in anything you have to say. In my book, your window of opportunity to influence my thinking is CLOSED. You are dismissed, just like you have dismissed EVERYONE else who didn't "yes-sir-you're-right-sir" your insistence. Your last reply to mine was just rude, and pointless. Yes, Dav1d, I know my words speak for themselves. That's how I write them!

BACK ON TOPIC:
It was brought to my attention that the Jon-Benet Ramsey case time-line has much in common with this Irwin case. I'm going to look into it and see what I can find in similarities.

-WT

This is a tragic story, but lets not forget that there is a kidnapping everyday in the US. About 2-3 average per day in Mexico(scary considering Mexico has 1/3 the population of the US). Not trying to downplay this story, but there are many tragic stories like this that happen all of the time the don't get picked up in the media, but those people should still be remembered in our hearts. Oh, when was the last time you heard about a missing black girl?