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Lisa Irwin - Missing - One Year Later

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posted on Nov, 12 2011 @ 07:19 PM
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Originally posted by Dav1d

I really see this is a very basic kind of deal. KCPD were told the boys were meeting with police later in the week, that fact, did not require an immediate response, such that they couldn't verify that the FBI was not talking to them. Do you really wish to suggest that KCPD doesn't know how to contact the lawyers in this case? Hasn't been in contact with the lawyers? My world is not based on showing how much smarter I am than everyone around me. If I was given this info, at the very least I would of contacted the lawyers and asked, who are they scheduling this with, it's not about making the other side look dumb.


This is one of the points I was talking about. There is a difference between everyone's world. We don't know what was said behind the scenes. I don't think I suggested the police did not contact the lawyers at all (I have to look back, been a long day). I doubt you and I know what, if any, information was communicated between the local police and the lawyers. What if there was a phone call asking about a so called interview being setup and it wasn't returned in time or not at all (by anyone except the FBI and lawyers)? This is in no way pro police, it is, in my opinion, something that *could* have happened. We are all sitting outside this.




But in my opinion, KCPD is out to make this family look criminal, and bad, look at the last media event the family had scheduled near the end of October. That was the day and the hour, that the KCPD does a search of a pond? Do you really think, that morning the family wasn't told of that search? If they go on with their event, it would have been played as them being uncaring, about the search. If they cancel the event, it is played that once again they changed their plans at the last moment. The family is unreliable....


I respect your opinion and the opinions you have given. I in turn am giving my opinion of what could have played out. As for the above quote, I can see your point, and I can also see how the family could be painted bad in that situation.


You go to the major sites, that cover Baby Lisa, and at each one I've been to there is someone very Pro police, who claims to be connected in someway. Perhaps a parole officer, perhaps a psychologist but they are there being vocal, that the family is guilty.... One doesn't need to many people hitting media sites, to make an impression. Most LE encourages its officers not to post as an officer, even my little backwater town. You know the best shills aren't even aware of being one, they simply get fed info, knowing it will be passed on. How many rumors have their origin at KCPD? It's all about manipulation, and steering public opinion is old hat for people involved in propaganda. There are just way to many coincidences in this case.


I agree with what you are saying. I like this site because it's members can usually have an open discussion on threads and may disagree, but can agree to disagree. As in above, I have been to some of the sites and seen the Pro police, anti family stances. Technically, I can see an origin from the police releasing little information, but then it takes a turn and many of the people posting inject their own *facts* into the posts and reports.

I can see your point and can see how the police can manipulate. I can also see how the media and other sites can post what they think is relative to the case, then adding their zeal to it.

In the end, I enjoy talking to you and respect your opinions. I may not always agree with some views that are presented, but find your valuable source of reporting, views and information an asset.

IWOH




posted on Nov, 12 2011 @ 07:20 PM
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The CARD Teams are designed to deploy teams of 4-6 experienced personnel to provide on-the-ground investigative, technical, and resource assistance to state and local law enforcement. The CARD Teams consist of Crimes Against Children investigators who have in-depth experience in child abduction cases. The nationwide CARD Team consists of 60 members, with two full teams serving each region of the country. They work closely with FBI Behavioral Analysis Unit representatives, National Center for the Analysis of Violent Crime Coordinators, and Crimes Against Children Coordinators.


CARD Teams are primarily involved in non-family child abductions, ransom child abductions, and mysterious disappearances of children. They work with state and local law enforcement to protect and save the lives of innocent children.


It may well be one of those things we just will not agree on. But I see "assistance", not control, I see "with" not oversee. To me it's just logical the local cop shop is going to know the area far better than FBI agents from another state. There are going to be far more local cops involved than 4 to 6 card officers. Finally if you take the time to watch the videos those with the FBI labels on themselves don't appear to my eyes to be in charge. That also seems to be the thoughts of the local reporters, as just how many video's have you seen where a reporter went up and stuck a mike in an FBI agents face and asked for a comment? I've see lots of tape where the only comment is no comment from someone in charge... (note there are more than 6 FBI people in this case, lots more if you watch the videos.... Also if you watch real close you can spot ATF agents... Why are they involved at all?)

The FBI ran the cadaver dogs (grunt work) but the local cops wrote the search warrant request, righting reports is generally the role of those in charge in my experience. The FBI dog handlers didn't even get to write out what the dogs found in their own words! In effect that is the equilvant of hearsay in my opinion. But then chance are very good an FBI agent would not have chosen "...hit on a dead body" either.



posted on Nov, 12 2011 @ 07:25 PM
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Originally posted by Michelle129th

To Schmae: I also wasn't sure what exactly electronic Surveillance meant. I googled it and funny enough I found an old Wanted Ad for the exact same position with sprint at the same location. here is the job description.


Electronic Surveillance Technician,
Sprint | OVERLAND PARK, Kansas
Work Type Full time
Job Description In this critical role of an Electronic Surveillance Technician, you will be responsible for ensuring compliance in this area, which includes 7x24 Law Enforcement Agency (LEA) hotlines used by LEAs for emergencies involving hostage situations, kidnappings and national emergencies. You will coordinate the receipt, processing and response to legal demands received from LEAs and courts for customer records, pen registers and wiretaps.

Your responsibilities will include analyzing law enforcement-generated court orders to determine completeness, assess validity and determine the nature and scope of the request. You will also assist in the implementation and maintenance of court ordered electronic surveillance (i.e. wiretap, pen-register, and trap and trace), handset location tracking a customer requested malicious call trace. You will provide appropriate data for billing law enforcement the cost of providing electronic surveillance. You may be required to provide after-hours call screening by handling non-emergency call requests as well as coordinate switch translation initiation for establishing electronic surveillance. You will report to a Supervisor. ? High school diploma or equivalent

? Experience in security, law or surveillance Sprint is a great place to work for people who want to make a difference. We're at the center of a challenging and changing industry where every day is a growth opportunity. Diverse thought and backgrounds are highly valued. If you're up for a challenge, Sprint is the place to build your career and your character. Sprint is an Equal Opportunity Employer and has been recognized for its commitment to diversity and creating an inclusive workplace where all employees' backgrounds, talents and contributions are valued.

We are proud to be a drug free employer.



Michelle




Oh wow. That is very interesting. It would seem that position would put the person right smack in the middle of where this investigation is.

IWOH



posted on Nov, 12 2011 @ 07:43 PM
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Originally posted by Dav1d

The CARD Teams are designed to deploy teams of 4-6 experienced personnel to provide on-the-ground investigative, technical, and resource assistance to state and local law enforcement. The CARD Teams consist of Crimes Against Children investigators who have in-depth experience in child abduction cases. The nationwide CARD Team consists of 60 members, with two full teams serving each region of the country. They work closely with FBI Behavioral Analysis Unit representatives, National Center for the Analysis of Violent Crime Coordinators, and Crimes Against Children Coordinators.


CARD Teams are primarily involved in non-family child abductions, ransom child abductions, and mysterious disappearances of children. They work with state and local law enforcement to protect and save the lives of innocent children.


It may well be one of those things we just will not agree on. But I see "assistance", not control, I see "with" not oversee.


It may be something we may have to just disagree on then, which is fine. The above quote was taken from the FBI CARD Teams overview page, what I copied from the same article, farther down, was the answers to the public about what they say they actually do.



To me it's just logical the local cop shop is going to know the area far better than FBI agents from another state. There are going to be far more local cops involved than 4 to 6 card officers. Finally if you take the time to watch the videos those with the FBI labels on themselves don't appear to my eyes to be in charge. That also seems to be the thoughts of the local reporters, as just how many video's have you seen where a reporter went up and stuck a mike in an FBI agents face and asked for a comment? I've see lots of tape where the only comment is no comment from someone in charge... (note there are more than 6 FBI people in this case, lots more if you watch the videos.... Also if you watch real close you can spot ATF agents... Why are they involved at all?)


I agree with you here, the local police would know the area far better than the FBI. This is why I also said we might not know what is going on behind the scenes, but the FBI could be leaving the police to do media work (could be considered grunt I guess, I am sure the FBI does not want to get caught up in the media frenzy). Much was spoken at the beginning of the thread about ATF going door to door also with the FBI, I don't remember alot about it as I have not really heard about the ATF since.

IWOH


edit on 12-11-2011 by IwasOnceHappy because: Clarification



posted on Nov, 12 2011 @ 07:49 PM
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Originally posted by Michelle129th


Here's an updated map...just to give an idea of the area it covers. A bit less daunting than the first.

1/3mile radius from Lisa Irwin's house

To Schmae: I also wasn't sure what exactly electronic Surveillance meant. I googled it and funny enough I found an old Wanted Ad for the exact same position with sprint at the same location. here is the job description.


Electronic Surveillance Technician,
Sprint | OVERLAND PARK, Kansas
Work Type Full time
Job Description In this critical role of an Electronic Surveillance Technician, you will be responsible for ensuring compliance in this area, which includes 7x24 Law Enforcement Agency (LEA) hotlines used by LEAs for emergencies involving hostage situations, kidnappings and national emergencies. You will coordinate the receipt, processing and response to legal demands received from LEAs and courts for customer records, pen registers and wiretaps.

Your responsibilities will include analyzing law enforcement-generated court orders to determine completeness, assess validity and determine the nature and scope of the request. You will also assist in the implementation and maintenance of court ordered electronic surveillance (i.e. wiretap, pen-register, and trap and trace), handset location tracking a customer requested malicious call trace. You will provide appropriate data for billing law enforcement the cost of providing electronic surveillance. You may be required to provide after-hours call screening by handling non-emergency call requests as well as coordinate switch translation initiation for establishing electronic surveillance. You will report to a Supervisor. ? High school diploma or equivalent

? Experience in security, law or surveillance Sprint is a great place to work for people who want to make a difference. We're at the center of a challenging and changing industry where every day is a growth opportunity. Diverse thought and backgrounds are highly valued. If you're up for a challenge, Sprint is the place to build your career and your character. Sprint is an Equal Opportunity Employer and has been recognized for its commitment to diversity and creating an inclusive workplace where all employees' backgrounds, talents and contributions are valued.

We are proud to be a drug free employer.



Michelle




So does this have the potential to change perceptions? It appears he is working hand in hand with some of KC finest... Does this represent a close personal relationship, or at least the possibility of one? I believe this indicates he would have both the knowledge and skills as well as access to the equipment to clone a GSM phone. And again I wonder about his function at the airbase. He works security, it's likely he does/did the same at the airbase, in my opinion...



posted on Nov, 13 2011 @ 03:10 AM
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Someone was asking what medication Deborah is/was on.

Effexor


Effexor (venlafaxine) is an antidepressant in a group of drugs called selective serotonin and norepinephrine reuptake inhibitors (SSNRIs). Effexor affects chemicals in the brain that may become unbalanced and cause depression.

Effexor is used to treat major depressive disorder, anxiety, and panic disorder.


I hope that helps. More info of course at the link provided.

peace



posted on Nov, 13 2011 @ 03:13 AM
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More confusion. More 'players'.

Dane and another man claiming to be on the 'porch' that night - he lives just two doors down from the house where Lisa went missing.

peace
edit on 13-11-2011 by silo13 because: (no reason given)



posted on Nov, 13 2011 @ 05:59 AM
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Originally posted by silo13


More confusion. More 'players'.

Dane and another man claiming to be on the 'porch' that night - he lives just two doors down from the house where Lisa went missing.

peace
edit on 13-11-2011 by silo13 because: (no reason given)


So nothing actually *new* here, this was uploaded to YouTube on November the eight, so it is 5 days old now, and was discussed several pages ago. Or have I missed something? Such as Dane claiming to be on the "porch" in this tape? And the "another man" is actually the "new" neighbor to the neighborhood who has already been discussed here previously and really provides no new insight to the events of that night?

Courious Megan Wright is unemployed and gets food stamps, yet she is so "wealthy" she can afford to buy "air time" and give it to unknown friends, using a prepaid anonymous cellphone plan one of the most expensive plans avaible here, as a rule? That also seems to lack credibility to me...



posted on Nov, 13 2011 @ 06:51 AM
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reply to post by Dav1d
 


Just a quick note... the assumption of innocence refers to court of law. I do not know if it necessarily refers to an investigation. Not trying to be argumentative, but I think this came up before here. The police do not have to assume innocence on anyone's part. In fact I think their motto is everyone's a suspect until they have proof they are not. So presumption of innocence is once a charge is filed and a court date is coming. Or that is my understanding of it at least.



posted on Nov, 13 2011 @ 07:00 AM
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reply to post by Michelle129th
 


MICHELLE WELCOME BACK !!!!

and O M G ''Law Enforcement Agency (LEA) hotlines used by LEAs for emergencies involving hostage situations, kidnappings and national emergencies. '''

Could it get any weirder? You've got to be kidding me ! This is James Brandos'
possible job' so stated on his fb page. Hmmmmmmmm

How many things in this case make you go hmmmmm?

DAVID,, I must say here is a case where everyone looks guilty, parents, police, neighbors, family ...... I don't even know what to think.



posted on Nov, 13 2011 @ 07:51 AM
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Originally posted by schmae
reply to post by Dav1d
 


Just a quick note... the assumption of innocence refers to court of law. I do not know if it necessarily refers to an investigation. Not trying to be argumentative, but I think this came up before here. The police do not have to assume innocence on anyone's part. In fact I think their motto is everyone's a suspect until they have proof they are not. So presumption of innocence is once a charge is filed and a court date is coming. Or that is my understanding of it at least.


The population of Kansas City, indeed America is limited.
If this "limited" population, is subjected to years of public condemnation, (the DA announcement that it may take years to solve this case) it will taint the potential jury pool.
The longer your name is associated with a crime, the more people assume you committed the crime.
There is a distinction between assuming someone is guilty, and developing tunel vision and only investigating a lead that support your assumption.
Clearly what KCPD is doing, hasn't located little Lisa.
Clearly KCPD has stated it has no suspects, (classically someone that EVIDENCE points to)
Clearly the DA has stated, this case may take years to solve.
Historically we know that most crimes are solved either within the first hours of the discovery, or it takes sigificantly longer, if ever. We are well beyond the initial hours, days, and weeks at this point.
We have been told the police have nothing...
The police go back multiple times, wasting the limit time they have, re-running the same searches with the same result.... (In my opinion it would be far better, to do a thorough search the very first time, or the second time, rather than less than thorough searches three, four, and more times.)
Deborah and Jeremy are entitled to a fair and impartial jury, who do not have a preconceived idea as to Deborah and Jeremy's guilt or innocents. Each day, each week, that KCPD feeds the media has the overall effect of making such a jury much harder to find. Every child disappearance does not generate this degree of media interest, it is KCPD actions that have inpart fed this interest.
LE role is NOT that of media prosecutor, it is not their purpose to tell us who is and who is not guilty, GUILT is determine by out COURTS...



posted on Nov, 13 2011 @ 08:00 AM
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reply to post by Dav1d
 


''Every child disappearance does not generate this degree of media interest, it is KCPD actions that have inpart fed this interest. ''

And you really do not think the words of Deborah herself have in any way fed this interest? I didn't think too much about the case until I started listenign to her. Truly it was a tragedy of a missing baby, but nothing I became glued to until SHE opened her mouth. So that is either HER or MEDIA, not LE that caused me to start really looking at her.



posted on Nov, 13 2011 @ 08:44 AM
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That presumption of innocents is based on the belief that most people are NOT criminals

So when we look at Deborah and Jeremy.
Do they have a criminal record? No.
Do they appear to be living beyond their means, have more money than they should? No.
Do their neighbors claim they abuse their children in any way? No.
Have they changed their story? Yes.
====================================================
Megan Wright
Does she have a criminal record?
Does she appear to live beyond her means? Yes! (Has a prepaid cell phone, that she claims she lets her friends use. Is unemployed, and on food stamps.
Neighbors claim/suggest she is a drug user, has/had a boyfriend that has a sigificant criminal record
Has she changed her story? Yes, and after having weeks to rehearse it.
=======================================================
KCPD have they told the public things that time has shown to be untrue? Yes.
Have they changed their story? Yes
FBI, why where they there on day one waking people up, searching their homes?
ATF, why where they there, searching for a baby?
KCPD, on day one does it searches suggest a search for a live or a dead baby? In those first 48 critical hours, wouldn't it have been better to ASSUME Lisa was alive, and user your limited manpower to "lock" the area down as much as possible? Rather than wasting your limited manpower searching sewers, wells, landfills, cisterns, and other locations for a dead baby?
Five weeks into this and we still don't know what has happen to Little Lisa, yet when searches where done, they where repeated, time and time and time, again. That suggest that KCPD has demonstrated that KCPD does not believe they where thorough the first or even the second time they were done! If KCPD doubts their own work, why should we accept it?
Men's clothes, and diapers, both soiled and unused where found in the woods, but dismissed. Reports clearly suggested that they where not retained as evidence. What actual evidence supports that the diapers, or clothes where not related to this case? Where DNA test preformed on items, where samples retained? Or is this simply the opinion of a searcher, that KCPD, doesn't actually trust?
Why did KCPD wait weeks to take the dumpster? Weeks in which it could have been dumped how many times?
Why does KCPD claim to "need" answers from Deborah and Jeremy, yet refuse to accept written answers? With written answers there can be no question as to what was said.
When KCPD tells us that they have cleared someone, why not also relay, how, or based on what? Do they fear that their clearing maybe as thorough as their searches appear to be?
====================================================
Jersey
Does he have a criminal record? Yes
Does he have a thing for fire? Yes
Is he a known thief? Yes
Is he known for violence? Yes
Was he in the area? Yes
Does he know Megan Wright? Yes would know her phone number.
Does he fit the discription of a man with a baby seen in the area? Yes



posted on Nov, 13 2011 @ 09:07 AM
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Originally posted by schmae
reply to post by Dav1d
 


''Every child disappearance does not generate this degree of media interest, it is KCPD actions that have inpart fed this interest. ''

And you really do not think the words of Deborah herself have in any way fed this interest? I didn't think too much about the case until I started listenign to her. Truly it was a tragedy of a missing baby, but nothing I became glued to until SHE opened her mouth. So that is either HER or MEDIA, not LE that caused me to start really looking at her.


Do you understand the meaning of "impart" in the sentence you quoted? I'm assuming based on your question you don't?
Debrah was also requested to talk to the media by KCPD, as a means of forcing more information out of her in an attempt to trap her.
Would you contend that the "media" and the questions they ask, are in no way prompted by the KCPD? That if it comes to a trial, that none of her statements to the media will be used against her in a trial? Do you really, believe that the media has developed all their own ideas, without input in any way from LE? Or can you accept that LE has suggested things for the media to focus upon?
Would you deny that KCPD uses the media to further it's goals?
Would you deny that KCPD has used the media as a "tool" in this case, from day one?
When one points a gun, and pulls the trigger is one un-responsible for the effects of the action? Because it was the gun that "fired" the round?



posted on Nov, 13 2011 @ 09:28 AM
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reply to post by Dav1d
 


Actually I didnt see the word inpart !
Until you pointed it out. I just think its' media that is making sure there's a report every 30 minutes of some kind and if there is no new news then they make some new news but a suggestion.........suggestion that this neighbor did or said or drank this or that or that this roomie of megans' household may or may not have done drugs, etc. These little suggestions are what keeps the plot thickening, but I'm getting the feeling all of these little details have nothing to do with Lisa. I imagine myself in this situation. We have known felons who are in prison now or out on parole ,, drugs mostly. These are not close family friends who we spend holidays, just folks we happen to know from our youths who we've maintained a small amount of communication with over the years. But in this situation to splatter it on the big breaking news banner headline, FAMILY KNOWS VIOLENT PAROLEE would look real good. But I imagine all the things one could dig up just me and my family and friends and acquaintances. I also have neighbors who are into WHO KNOWS WHAT? I dont' even know but I know there's shady goings on. So I imagine me in this situaiton and they come on media and say ' the neighbor is known to be into drugs and theft and once wrecked a car he's stolen into a telephone pole' and the pubic saying :O omg there you have it, what a bunch of ne'er do wells. Even though it has nothing to do with me or my family . Those little details are minutae and make for great suspense on the evening smear shows but have little do with finding the baby. The media, NOT LE , has brought most of these nuggets up. SO I find themedia much more culpable. This is especially so in the last week of these new ' actors' or players, the dane and shane etc. I dont know that police have mentioned or if they even KNOW of these people, who knows. But the media sure does and they could have NOTHING to do with anything.
I wonder if Jersey is talking ........... truthful or not. He's in jail on some charges and I wonder if he's saying things to get himself a lessor deal or just keeping quiet.



posted on Nov, 13 2011 @ 09:31 AM
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I've invited LE to join us on this thread....
Perhaps we will get some new insights, perhaps I'll just get smacked down



Psychologically speaking I find the apparent public perception of Megan Wright, and Deborah interesting. I think you have some great thoughts there. How many of us now can honestly state that we know no criminals? And in this day and age is stating that one knows none, suspicious in itself?
edit on 13-11-2011 by Dav1d because: (no reason given)



posted on Nov, 13 2011 @ 10:21 AM
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reply to post by Dav1d
 


Heya...

Some info on the off chance it was never posted.

* - Child abductions - When the investigation goes beyond 48 hours with no resolution, the chances of finding a person alive decrease quickly.
* - KCPD is the lead agency since its within their jurisdiction. The FBI can be requested, and as people pointed out have CARD teams (which can act as investigators / support / etc). If a crime is committed in one state and the suspect flees across a stateline, it becomes Federal in almost all cases.
* - logic dictates that when working an abduction there is 2 approaches. First officer on scene secures everything, including family / witnesses etc. Inital information gathered from that is sent out to law enforcement / hospitals etc so those on the outside know what to be looking for.

* - As irritating as some people find it, the parents / family members are looked at as suspects. Its the job of law enforcement to rule out people as suspects as much as it is to locate the suspect.

* - Abduction of a baby is a completely seperate ball game than if a teenager goes missing. With teenagers etc they look at the family, but also friends, webpages, chat logs on the computer, did the kid run away, drug problems etc.
With a baby none of those issues are present. That automatically places focus in certain areas - The Family / Friends / Strangers. The focus will be on behavior / criminal history / associations with groups or people etc. They will look for situations that may have been severe enough where a person targets the couples child to "hit them where it counts".

In child abduction cases the parents are key to the investigation, as shown above. They have every right to retain a lawyer, and that does not indicate guilt. However, ask yourself this question - What would a reasonable person do if they were in that situation. Complete and total cooperation with law enforcement so they can find the child. In cases like this, when the parents end cooperation, generally there is a reason for it, and its not going to be because the KCPD held a news conference on the matter.

In this one area, it lends credence to potential parental involvement in a crime by their lack of cooperation.

* Amber Alerts - Missouri Amber Alerts are issued through MO DPS, and the requirements are strict, as was pointed out in another post. Just because the amber alert ended doesnt mean info is not going out. Law Enforcement across the country has the ability to send out notices / attempt to locate / stop and hold etc. In addition to amber alerts, Missouri also has the ability to send regional alerts out as well.

Ask yourself this question - If you dont know when the child was taken, you dont know who was involved, no idea what they drive or the person descrption, then what good is an amber alert? It would be like broadcasting - Please help us find this baby and nothing else. Since all babies look the same, do you know how many leads could come in?

* - As far as interviewing the other 2 children, that is up to the parents only (unless they can get a court order but even then thats iffy). As a Law enforcement officer I cant even question a minor unless I get parental permission. Even then I have no authority to arrest a minor, that requires a juvenile Officer.

* Refusal to be questioned seperately - The family tried to set conditions on being interviewed, which raises some red flags for me. The reason to interview family members seperately is to allow a person to talk to the police without fear of retaliation from another family member IE bullied into giving the same answer. It also can reveal discrepancies in the offical statement / event line the parents gave. With both parents being interviewed together, they are able to maintain one coherent story / time line.

Rule of thumb - The longer an investigation goes, its more and more difficult for a party to remember the entire lie. We saw this with Megan Kellys interview on Fox News where mom gave a conflicting answer on the time frame. She told police a different time than she told the media.

* Law Enforcement being required to be honest - Completely disagree with this. We are allowed to lie in some circumstances. Again, going back to the interview scenario and being seperate. We can tell one parent the other parent admitted to the crime, gave conflicting info etc. Passing a law that requires law enforcement to be honest is like passing a law to ban guns. It restricts the wrong party. Criminals are called criminals for a reason.

Child abduction cases arent fun to work as you guys see. Its even worse when there are no leads to follow up on. If all leads are exhausted, logic says to recheck family / friend statements and and confirm the info a second time.

Anyways, hope the info is usefull.. Any questions just ask..



posted on Nov, 13 2011 @ 10:32 AM
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On Tuesday October 11, 2011 there was an abandon home own by the city, that was searched. In the time lines I've looked at this appears to be the first mention of this place being search. The video I recall seeing, suggest that it was searched only by a very limited number of people, and nothing of a forensic nature was taken....
After the search, the home was demolished....
This stands out in my mind.
Why the rush to destroy this house now?
Without knowing what happen to Lisa, but knowing that apparently she spent some time in the area, any forensic evidence could prove meaningful in the future. The destruction of this home has the potential to destroy evidence. KCPD has established a pattern of not doing thorough searches and requiring multiple searches to obtain evidence, evidence that I would suggest is tainted...



posted on Nov, 13 2011 @ 10:35 AM
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Originally posted by Dav1d
Debrah was also requested to talk to the media by KCPD, as a means of forcing more information out of her in an attempt to trap her.

I dont think its to entrap her at all. With no leads and hitting a brick wall, la wnforcement has asked the mothers to go on tv to appeal for the return of her child. Sometimes, the people who take the child will see this and have a bout of guilty concsious and turn themselves in, admit to killing the child, or will drop the child off at a safe place and then flee.


Originally posted by Dav1d
Would you contend that the "media" and the questions they ask, are in no way prompted by the KCPD? That if it comes to a trial, that none of her statements to the media will be used against her in a trial?

If Law Enforcement went to a reporter and asked that reporter to ask certain questions (guilt seeking), I could see the Defense Atorney filing a motion to supress the statements. When law enforcement asks a civilian to do something, it causes a miranda rights issue. Since the police requested and gave the question for the reporter to ask, the reporter essentially stopped being a reporter and became an agent of the state since she was acting at the direction of law enforcement.

However, media knows what to ask without any need for the police to prompt it.,


Originally posted by Dav1d
Do you really, believe that the media has developed all their own ideas, without input in any way from LE? Or can you accept that LE has suggested things for the media to focus upon?

I beleive the media develops their own ideas. Media people generally know what rights protect them and how to use that to their advantage. Media looks at ratings and the story first and how it affects their employer and their career (not in all cases but you get the idea).


Originally posted by Dav1d
Would you deny that KCPD uses the media to further it's goals?

Law Enforcement routinely uses the media to assist in their investigations. When new evidence is disovered, they use the media to update the investigation in hopes the new info might be the info that jogs a persons memory. The media can be quite usefull in cases like these. The more exposure on child abductions (among others) the better the chance of solving the case.


Originally posted by Dav1d
Would you deny that KCPD has used the media as a "tool" in this case, from day one?

I think the Police uses the media as much as the media uses the police.



Originally posted by Dav1d
When one points a gun, and pulls the trigger is one un-responsible for the effects of the action? Because it was the gun that "fired" the round?

It very much depends on the situation and reasons for the person to pull the trigger.



posted on Nov, 13 2011 @ 10:44 AM
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Originally posted by Dav1d
On Tuesday October 11, 2011 there was an abandon home own by the city, that was searched. In the time lines I've looked at this appears to be the first mention of this place being search. The video I recall seeing, suggest that it was searched only by a very limited number of people, and nothing of a forensic nature was taken....

That building was brought into the limelight because diapers and some baby tpe clothing were located near it. The items located were determined to not be connected to the case.


Originally posted by Dav1d
After the search, the home was demolished....

Its possible the property owner decided to do that based on what was found close. It would suck to own an abandoned / vacant property only to be notified a death / rape / etc occured there. Not everything is sinister, although in cases like this I can see why people would see issues with the action.



Originally posted by Dav1d
This stands out in my mind.
Why the rush to destroy this house now?

See above


Originally posted by Dav1d
Without knowing what happen to Lisa, but knowing that apparently she spent some time in the area, any forensic evidence could prove meaningful in the future. The destruction of this home has the potential to destroy evidence.

A light breeze or a heavy rain / snow fall can destroy evidence as well. There is nothing more irritating than working an arson call. The Fire Department, or crime scene cleaners as I call them, destroy evidence when they are fighting the fire. Its the nature of the beast. KCPD went through the house and determined it had nothing to do with the case. What type of evidence would they be looking for that wouldnt stand out in a house like that?



Originally posted by Dav1d
KCPD has established a pattern of not doing thorough searches and requiring multiple searches to obtain evidence, evidence that I would suggest is tainted...

Actually it will depend on the search locaton, the time the search is to be conducted etc. For the most part once a search warrant is submitted, reviewed and approved, its only valid for a certain amount of time, and is restricted to only those items in the search warrant. As an example if a search warrant is issued to locate a bloody chair in a house. Officers can only search areas that could contain the chair and nothing else.

If enough time goes by, Law Enforcement will be required to submit a new PC statement to get another search warrant. If the same items are listed, they are going to be required to explain why they needed a second warrant.

Out of curiosity, what incident are you referring to with KCPD and thorough searches?



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