It looks like you're using an Ad Blocker.

Please white-list or disable AboveTopSecret.com in your ad-blocking tool.

Thank you.

 

Some features of ATS will be disabled while you continue to use an ad-blocker.

 

Ghosts scientifically possible?

page: 1
8
<<   2 >>

log in

join
share:

posted on Oct, 5 2011 @ 05:10 AM
link   
According to a well known physicist, Henry Stapp, ghosts are a scientific probability.


Stapp received his PhD in particle physics at the University of California, Berkeley, under the supervision of Nobel Laureates Emilio Segrè and Owen Chamberlain. While there, he was a member of the Berkeley Fundamental Fysiks Group, founded in May 1975 by Elizabeth Rauscher and George Weissmann, which met weekly to discuss philosophy and quantum physics.[1] Stapp moved to ETH Zurich to do post-doctoral work under Wolfgang Pauli. During this period he composed an article called 'Mind, Matter and Quantum Mechanics', which he never sent for publication, but would become the title of his 1993 book. When Pauli died in 1958, Stapp transferred to Munich, now in the company of Werner Heisenberg. While making important contributions to, inter alia, the analysis of proton-proton scattering and the development of analytic S-matrix theory, Stapp is perhaps most well known for his ongoing work in the foundations of quantum mechanics, with particular focus on explicating the role and nature of consciousness. He is also an expert on Bell's Theorem, having solved problems related to non-locality presented by John Bell and Albert Einstein. He currently performs his research at the Lawrence Berkeley National Laboratory.


en.wikipedia.org...

So I was reading this article;
www.theinsidegeek.com...

It's a discussion between the poster and a skeptic. In the article the poster links an interview with Henry Stapp by EnlightenNext Magazine.


[Respectable theorists hold a wide variety of views as to how to understand quantum mechanics. That theory accommodates a large variety of phenomena that are not allowed by classical mechanics. The key point here is this: If something like [William] James’ fantastic laws of clinging do exist, and they are sufficiently strong, then aspects of a personality might be able to survive bodily death and persist for a while as an enduring mental entity, existing somewhere in Descartes’ world of mental things, but capable on rare occasions of reconnecting with the physical world. I do not see any compelling theoretical reason why this idea could not be reconciled with the precepts of quantum mechanics. Such an elaboration of quantum mechanics would both allow our conscious efforts to influence our own bodily actions, and also allow certain purported phenomena such as “possession”, “mediumship”, and “reincarnation” to be reconciled with the basic precepts of contemporary physics. These considerations are, I think, sufficient to show that any claim that postmortem personality survival is impossible that is based solely on the belief that it is incompatible with the contemporary laws of physics is not rationally supportable. Rational science-based opinion on this question must be based on the content and quality of the empirical data, not on the presumption that such a phenomenon would be strictly incompatible with our current scientific knowledge of how nature works.


www-physics.lbl.gov...

What interesting to me is reading what Henry Stapp stated about the possibility of ghosts being real.
I've always been interested in the paranormal and I do believe that there is 'another side'.
What this 'other side' may be, I dont know.

I do know however that, like Henry Stapp said, it's scientifically possible.



Any thought's?




posted on Oct, 5 2011 @ 06:06 AM
link   
reply to post by Dr Cosma
 


Until science has an universal all encompassing knowledge of everything and can fully explain everything, then science cannot confidently proclaim the impossibility of anything either.

Science cant have it both ways.



posted on Oct, 5 2011 @ 06:12 AM
link   
reply to post by CrimsonMoon
 


I do like a scientific approach to most topics but I feel that science cannot answer ALL questions.



posted on Oct, 5 2011 @ 06:18 AM
link   

Originally posted by CrimsonMoonScience cant have it both ways.


The "science" of Physics can. If you use induction and complicated enough mathematics, you can have any woo-woo you desire; ghosts, inter-dimensional travelers, dopplegangers, black-is-white, ...anything.

Check out: www.theobjectivestandard.com...



posted on Oct, 5 2011 @ 06:37 AM
link   

Originally posted by Dr Cosma
reply to post by CrimsonMoon
 


I do like a scientific approach to most topics but I feel that science cannot answer ALL questions.



Great article, very interesting! And science WILL answer all questions, just not anytime soon.



posted on Oct, 5 2011 @ 06:59 AM
link   

Originally posted by CharliePrime

Originally posted by CrimsonMoonScience cant have it both ways.


The "science" of Physics can. If you use induction and complicated enough mathematics, you can have any woo-woo you desire; ghosts, inter-dimensional travelers, dopplegangers, black-is-white, ...anything.

Check out: www.theobjectivestandard.com...


Interesting article but it is advertising a book written by a philosopher of science (whatever that is)

My statement still stands until science knows and has explored everything (Quantum physics, other dimensions the whole she-bang) it can neither prove or disprove the existence of ghosts.



posted on Oct, 5 2011 @ 07:12 AM
link   
reply to post by Dr Cosma
 


Wow! Thanks Dr Cosma!

That was quite the rabbit hole you sent me down. My mind is still foggy from sleep, so I've made notes of some links.

The one thing on the insidegeek link that really jumped out at me was:

The issue arises when we have classical scientist dismissing things that operate within the quantum because they unable to measure them, thereby using that as proof that something does not exist in totality or at the very least exist probabilistically. Clearly, this is flawed thinking.


That gave me something to think about. Are all things that are known on the quantum level measurable? And if they are not measurable, yet they are known, are they accepted as existing?

Need. More. Coffee. (and a better understanding of physics!)

Thanks Again!
OiO



posted on Oct, 5 2011 @ 07:18 AM
link   
reply to post by OneisOne
 




That gave me something to think about. Are all things that are known on the quantum level measurable? And if they are not measurable, yet they are known, are they accepted as existing?


Interesting question. I dont know what is or is not measurable in the quantum level.
If they are known, then they have to be accepted as existing because it is reality!

Glad you liked the thread dude.


Im gona go for coffee also and take a look at that



posted on Oct, 5 2011 @ 07:25 AM
link   
reply to post by OneisOne
 


Uncertainty principle


In quantum mechanics, the Heisenberg uncertainty principle states a fundamental limit on the accuracy with which certain pairs of physical properties of a particle, such as position and momentum, can be simultaneously known. In other words, the more precisely one property is measured, the less precisely the other can be controlled, determined, or known. Max Born states, in his Nobel Laureate speech: To measure space coordinates and instants of time, rigid measuring rods and clocks are required. On the other hand, to measure momenta and energies, devices are necessary with movable parts to absorb the impact of the test object and to indicate the size of its momentum. Paying regard to the fact that quantum mechanics is competent for dealing with the interaction of object and apparatus, it is seen that no arrangement is possible that will fulfill both requirements simultaneously."


en.wikipedia.org...


Quantum nonlocality is a paradox that was described first by Einstein, Podolsky, and Rosen (EPR), who published the idea in 1935. The EPR paradox draws attention to a phenomenon predicted by quantum mechanics known as quantum entanglement, in which measurements on spatially separated quantum systems can instantaneously influence one another.


So quantum mechanics states that quantum systems can influence one another!


quantum mechanics violates a principle formulated by Einstein, known as the principle of locality or local realism, which states that changes performed on one physical system should have no immediate effect on another spatially separated system.


www.braungardt.com...

Was Einstein wrong then?
edit on 5-10-2011 by Dr Cosma because: (no reason given)



posted on Oct, 5 2011 @ 07:41 AM
link   
reply to post by Dr Cosma
 


actually science could answer ALL questions if only it was more advanced. science has the potential to resolve any issues regarding stuff concerning the existence. it's just, science has to work waaaaay hard to achieve that.



posted on Oct, 5 2011 @ 07:44 AM
link   
reply to post by jamsession
 


Thanks for posting.

Yes I believe in time science will answer all questions, but not yet.
But then again, by that time we will have another set of questions for science to answer and the cycle never end's which is the beuty of science it self, IMO.



posted on Oct, 5 2011 @ 07:56 AM
link   
reply to post by Dr Cosma
 


Like I said.... Rabbit Hole!!!


Add to the list of things you just posted. Particle/Wave Duality & Non-locality theory and that is pretty much what I study when I can! And I added a new one to the list this morning, Survival Theory. (thanks for that!)

As for things in science that are accepted, but not measured. Dark matter was the first thing that popped into my mind. It is known to exist because of its effects, but it can not be directly measured.

I have experienced "paranormal" type stuff most of my life. It was only last year I started going to known "haunted" locations. (one of which I'm going back to this Sunday!) I know that there is something happening that science does not accept. But that is my personal belief. I also do not think that science will ever accept that "ghosts" exist. Imagine carrying the weight of saying that it has been proven that the "personality" survives the body's death. I just can't see the scientific community accepting that as a "fact". And that is more than fine with me! As you pointed out, they even argue between themselves on already accepted theories!

(BTW, I'm a dudette. But dude works fine too!)
OiO



posted on Oct, 5 2011 @ 08:23 AM
link   
reply to post by OneisOne
 


Hah, dudette!


Well, I dont think it's something that science can accept as a fact because it cannot be tested.
Maybe on a quantum level.
I believe that our personalities or our energy survives death.
but that's just an opinion maybe based on my up bringing, school, thing's i've learned and speculation.
To hear a physicist say that it's possible is a step further I think to understanding or trying to understand it.

ETA:


I have experienced "paranormal" type stuff most of my life.


Interesting. Have you any thread's where you talk about personal paranormal stories?


edit on 5-10-2011 by Dr Cosma because: (no reason given)



posted on Oct, 5 2011 @ 08:29 AM
link   
Science can't have it both ways, its all theory until its proved or disproved



posted on Oct, 5 2011 @ 08:58 AM
link   

Originally posted by Dr Cosma
ETA:


I have experienced "paranormal" type stuff most of my life.


Interesting. Have you any thread's where you talk about personal paranormal stories?


edit on 5-10-2011 by Dr Cosma because: (no reason given)


No, I have not made any threads. I've found that in the ATS universe some people would rather bash the OP, then have a serious thought on the subject. I would love to find a place to discuss what I've experienced and have people propose thought out explanations without resorting to HOAX/Troll/Liar knee jerk reactions. I love opposing views, they always make me think and question. But I hate it when people bash, for bashings sake.

You know. I have even read comments on ATS from a serious paranormal investigator that believes in possessions/demons/etc, but absolutely dismisses all EVPs because science can explain them away (evps). I really respect that, but I don't agree with it. I've heard some pretty amazing evps.

So... totally off topic: Love all the bacon!!!!


OiO



posted on Oct, 5 2011 @ 09:16 AM
link   
reply to post by OneisOne
 




Love all the bacon!!!!


You better!!!


On a serious note now, well yea I agree with you on the part that too many people bash and that but it's something that we have to deal with unfortunately.
It's the bad side of a discussion forum.

Would love to hear some of your stories, maybe you make one some day eh?



posted on Oct, 5 2011 @ 09:33 AM
link   
reply to post by Dr Cosma
 


Great thread!

Henry Stapp is not the only physicist to think such things are possible. Have you heard of Nobel Laureate Brian Josephson?

www.tcm.phy.cam.ac.uk...


edit on 5-10-2011 by Quirky because: typo

edit on 5-10-2011 by Quirky because: typo



posted on Oct, 5 2011 @ 11:09 AM
link   
reply to post by Dr Cosma
 


whee you're welcome.
exactly, it's a vicious cycle. but ghosts are a phenomenon likely to be resolved relatively sooner, they're rather trivial when compared to the universe as a whole. resolving ghosts could actually go hand in hand with quantum physics and philosophy, there're a few aspects whch could form a ready basis such as radiowaves, or the phenomenon for which is it assumed that anything audio and visual is recorded in the space time continuum. the multiverse, multidimensions along with the idea of a simultaneous past, present and future are further theories that could possibly add more to the topic once they're on firm grounds.



posted on Oct, 5 2011 @ 01:22 PM
link   

Originally posted by jamsession
actually science could answer ALL questions if only it was more advanced. science has the potential to resolve any issues regarding stuff concerning the existence. it's just, science has to work waaaaay hard to achieve that.


The Incompleteness Theorem states that it cannot answer ALL questions, sorry. Unless you admit to the Universe not being logically consistent.



posted on Oct, 5 2011 @ 01:39 PM
link   
The problem with proof coming from the scientific community is that the majority of all scientific research is funded by major corporations and the powers that be primarily for the defense and medical industries.

Both of which are big money makers and as to why they receive the majority of funding for research.

And due to the fact that there is no money in which to be made as to whether proof of ghosts scientifically exists or not, then subsequently, the scientific community has no motivation to prove it one way or the other.

So I wouldn't exactly hold my breath waiting for proof from the scientific community.

What I do feel will happen is that with the cost of electronics continuing to drop, for example as to how all cell phones now have digital cameras in them these days as well as digital recorders.

That the sheer numbers of these devices in circulation and use will only provide more and more evidence as to ghost's existence and recorded electronically.

Inevitably the scientific community will find it increasingly difficult to deny or disprove.

Because we will now have something measurable and quantifiable such as an electrical signal in the form of an EVP and or videos which are the foundation of scientific evidence.

PEACE.


edit on 5-10-2011 by nh_ee because: The Truth Shall Set You Free !




top topics



 
8
<<   2 >>

log in

join