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Atheism Explained

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posted on Oct, 6 2011 @ 03:37 PM
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reply to post by daskakik
 

Ah ha yes, anything BUT God, which to be atheist you must not believe in, even if God is the spirit of truth, love and righteousness informing all life. How sad.




posted on Oct, 6 2011 @ 03:40 PM
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Um, it's a bit more complex than "there was nothing and nothing happened then nothing magically exploded for no reason".

en.wikipedia.org...


Just because you're too lazy to actually learn about the theory does not mean it's false. Your ignorance of science is not a proof of God.



posted on Oct, 6 2011 @ 03:40 PM
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edit on 6-10-2011 by Nosred because: (no reason given)



posted on Oct, 6 2011 @ 03:41 PM
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Originally posted by NewAgeMan
reply to post by daskakik
 

Ah ha yes, anything BUT God, which to be atheist you must not believe in, even if God is the spirit of truth, love and righteousness informing all life. How sad.


Why is it sad? Truth, love and righteousness don't have to be embodied in any one being for them to exist. That sound like something to be happy about.



posted on Oct, 6 2011 @ 03:45 PM
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Originally posted by NewAgeMan
reply to post by daskakik
 

Ah ha yes, anything BUT God, which to be atheist you must not believe in, even if God is the spirit of truth, love and righteousness informing all life. How sad.


It is a bit sad that people require imaginary friends in the sky to act like a decent person.



posted on Oct, 6 2011 @ 03:53 PM
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Originally posted by daskakik

Originally posted by ImmortalThought
Atheism is the FAITH in nothing. How sad when you can't even have enough faith to believe in yourself.


Couldn't be more wrong. Atheism is the lack of belief in god/gods. Doesn't mean you can't believe in magic, faries, ghosts, other dimensions, dragons....


Right! Beyond lack of belief in a deity - - - Atheists are individual and can believe anything they want - - or nothing.

Atheism itself is not a belief.

IMO - - to disbelieve god - - you'd first have to acknowledge god. I don't. Its more like a nothingness. Like a complete void. There is nothing to acknowledge - - to disbelieve.

Therefore it is lack of belief -- not disbelief. Fine line for sure. But makes complete sense to me.

Its not an opposition. Because there is nothing to oppose.
edit on 6-10-2011 by Annee because: (no reason given)



posted on Oct, 6 2011 @ 04:06 PM
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Originally posted by daskakik

Originally posted by NewAgeMan
reply to post by daskakik
 

Ah ha yes, anything BUT God, which to be atheist you must not believe in, even if God is the spirit of truth, love and righteousness informing all life. How sad.

Why is it sad? Truth, love and righteousness don't have to be embodied in any one being for them to exist. That sound like something to be happy about.

Well ifr they are not embodied somewhere or in some one, then they don't exist at all. Jesus' secret was obediance to this authority. Trust and obey. But do not assume you know what I mean when I say that.

If there's one thing atheists do a LOT, it's assume, and to presume to know there's no God, not even as a first principal, is the height of arrogance and absurdity.



posted on Oct, 6 2011 @ 04:27 PM
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reply to post by NewAgeMan
 


The word atheist has a definition which means someone who lacks a belief in god/gods. It doesn't mean you can't believe in anything alse. There is nothing to argue over. It is what it is. If atheists are right or wrong is something else altogether.

I said in "any one being". God doesn't have to exist for there to be truth, love and righteousness.

I don't know what you mean with the rest of what you wrote. I'm not particularly interested in what other atheist assume or presume. I only know what I know and believe what I believe.


edit on 6-10-2011 by daskakik because: (no reason given)



posted on Oct, 6 2011 @ 04:34 PM
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reply to post by daskakik
 

There is another view of Christianity however, which i am convinced is a valid frame of reference, and that is the notion that life itself is principal centered and framed, and that love is a formative causation or a first/last cause ie: the reason and purpose of existence, for the sake of mutality and mutual experience. Taken back to it's logical root, and we what we have is a God of love who is the giver or author of life.

What then arises is a spiritual conflict or controversy involving the issue of spiritual authority (and rebellion against that authority) whereby Jesus Christ represents the embodiment of it's resolution in the fullness of time and history.

For those who will, if you wish to better understand the Christian mind, this is "meaty" reading.


Originally posted by NewAgeMan

Spiritual Authority, by Watchman Nee
(available on-line)
www.teachtheword.com...

What was Jesus' secret? Obediance. Trust and obey.


Objection / Rebuttal


Originally posted by NewAgeMan

Originally posted by Q:1984A:1776

Originally posted by NewAgeMan
What was Jesus' secret? Obediance. Trust and obey.


That very sentiment goes against everything that most of us here on ATS stand for: Question everything, when you find something to be based on ignorance, deny it!

Yes, but it all depends doesn't it. There must be something to trust and obey, and if that very something is the will to love and to growth, understanding and conscious awareness, as synonymous with the will of God, and the spirit of truth and love that IS God, then it's a whole new ballgame, and an entirely different frame of reference by which all ignorance IS denied, and not without coming to grips with it's utter absurdity and nonsense. What's left when all that is gone - this is the one to trust and obey don't you see?

And don't forget we are talking about the NT Jesus here, who reframed or framed more perfectly, everything, to himself. By trusting and obeying, the one RIGHT thing, he subjugated the whole world beneath his feat, and stood tall relative to the whole of it all, and then acted and spoke for all the right reasons, motivated for the right reason, in a right way of being. Trust and obey what is holy just and true. Yes, deny ignorance. You mistook the premise of the argument.

Best Regards,

NAM



edit on 6-10-2011 by NewAgeMan because: (no reason given)



posted on Oct, 6 2011 @ 05:35 PM
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Originally posted by Nosred

Originally posted by NewAgeMan
reply to post by daskakik
 

Ah ha yes, anything BUT God, which to be atheist you must not believe in, even if God is the spirit of truth, love and righteousness informing all life. How sad.

It is a bit sad that people require imaginary friends in the sky to act like a decent person.

It's not about a morality play, but absolute freedom as the freedom to love and to be most fully self expressed as intended.

The fruit of the tree of the duality of the knowledge of good and evil is death and destruction.

If anythiing, it's about consciousness, and our state of being, or our constitution as a human being made in the image (reflection) of God.

What bothers me I guess is that the atheists just ASSUME without even bothering to begin to try to undestand what we really think about these things.


edit on 6-10-2011 by NewAgeMan because: edit



posted on Oct, 6 2011 @ 06:15 PM
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Originally posted by NewAgeMan
What bothers me I guess is that the atheists just ASSUME without even bothering to begin to try to undestand what we really think about these things.


What is it that you feel atheists assume?

Do you really need me to try to understand what you think about these things?

Aren't you assuming that I have not tried?



posted on Oct, 6 2011 @ 06:58 PM
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reply to post by daskakik
 

You assume you know what we all mean by "God" which you do not believe exists.

From my frame of reference, that's like arguing that nothing exists, including yourself.

God is either everything, or nothing.



posted on Oct, 6 2011 @ 08:21 PM
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reply to post by NewAgeMan
 

God is a general term. I can't begin to understand what every other person on the planet means by god so I could only address it in general terms.

Your frame of reference may be wrong.

Now you are the one assuming and presuming that there is a god. You insist that your frame of reference is the truth while accusing atheists of being arrogant and absurd for doing the same thing.



posted on Oct, 6 2011 @ 09:30 PM
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Originally posted by daskakik
You insist that your frame of reference is the truth while accusing atheists of being arrogant and absurd for doing the same thing.


You noticed that too.




posted on Oct, 6 2011 @ 09:32 PM
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No, I'm just saying consider things from new perspectives and points of view, as potentially valid, including the idea of God as an appropriate frame of reference for any human being that is seeking, not even as much "God" as some sort of separate entity, but his own true nature and true self as he is as an evolved, self aware sentient, and spiritually embodied being within the whole of all creation, without succumbing to a principal of rebellion on the one hand, or an absurd and pointless power struggle on the other. To have the courage to recognize and to know God within the stillness of our hearts, where God lives as his innerant expression, by design.

We cannot understand or argue about God as the Absolute, but we CAN posit the notion that there must be one (an Absolute), and if fully informed in eternity, through an eternal cosmic evolutionary process (even a "big bang" is still sandwitched between two eternities), or "information rich", at it's most fundamental level then such an unfathomable mysterious being, as the "spirit of the universe" (cosmic consciousness) has had more than enough time to become self aware. Our experience of the world, as self aware conscious being in creation, may then be seen as the byproduct an intentional limitation or subtraction from this Absolute, or the visble restraint of God (virtue is power restrained) in limitation - or better yet, we ourselves as God's own reflection in eternity, where it is our very destiny as created beings, to become at one with God (atonement). This is the "Great Work" or the Magnum Opus of Jesus Christ, you see.

And the Creation is like the beauty of a perfect creator, who does't get "in our face" in a negative way, and we see him and his works reflected everywhere we look, if only we had the eyes to see. So while we cannot UNDERSTAND God nor the mind of God, we can nevertheless know and experience God, both within the interior reality of our own "qualia" or unique personal experience that is our life and imbedded in life itself (depth of reality), with the ability to creatively take action and thus presented with an opportunity to participate (a free gift of life) - as part of the whole process (life meeting life in eternity), included, for a reason, and a purpose, which is to do God's will on earth as in heaven, a will revealed through Jesus Christ the son as the will to love where love is the will to give of one's self for the sake of another person's spiritual growth and well being, yet which, no matter how helpful the intent, must always be free, free to freely express itself, to be recieved, and to give in turn, free, since the freedom to love is the first principal in the whole affair!

I'm not saying this is THE truth, only my truth and the one I'd like to share, and simply ask people to give consideration to, or to try it on, see what it looks like, you know hold up my map of reality for the scrutiny of others, if only simply to share. it, as a the point of view of an evolutionary Christian mystic.

Did that make sense?



edit on 6-10-2011 by NewAgeMan because: edit



posted on Oct, 6 2011 @ 10:15 PM
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“God cannot be explained. He cannot be argued about. He cannot be theorized, nor can He be discussed and understood. God can only be lived.

To understand the infinite, eternal Reality is not the GOAL of individualized beings in the illusion of Creation, because the Reality can never be understood; it is to be realized by conscious experience.

Therefore, the GOAL is to realize the Reality and attain the “I am [child of] God” state in human form.”

~ Meher Baba – from the book “God Speaks”
([child of] added to correct small error since man is a created being begotten of God as "first father").


Provided we retain what I call an indespensible I-Thou relationship WITH the Absolute (Godhead), however unfathomable or inscrutible, there it is, imho, a wholly appropriate frame of reference, for an eternally incorruptible human enlightenment
- setting us free at long last to walk hand in hand with God, while at the same time growing (evolving), to our full stature as human beings in creation, Jesus Christ as the "son of man" representing the highest expression of this stature as to what the human being really is and represents as the loving expression of the eternal Godhead, or as a model of what the human heart is capable, a pattern if you will, a spiritual and therefore a pschological pattern of perfection, as both an ideal in terms of our capacity for love (I have only one commandment - love one another as I have loved you), and as a pointer
"As my father hath sent me, even so send I you."

Wouldn't it be nice to finally discover our true nature at long last, only to recognize Jesus Christ as our elder brother?

And if the interiority of reality and existence, if involution is as operative as evolution, if there's something deeper than first-impressiuned outer experience, something both innerant and transcendant both at the same time, then my God, what we're looking at, in him (in us!), is not only our truest self, but the whole treasure of the entire breadth of all being and becoming (at the crown of creation) - home at last. Within such a frame, trusting God, what we think of as death as no meaning or signifiance, but the gift, the reunion, that was a gift none but Jesus as Lord and Savior was in a position to extend, as a loving invitation, to simply pick up our cross (we all have something we're working outi), lightly, and follow him, and "get" just where he was coming from, and where he hoped to take us all. I am simply doing here precisely what I saw (see) him do, relative to you dear reader who I love, and hope to be loved by in turn.

It's magnificent and beautiful, and it "groks" at least for me it does, but it's no good unless I can share it with at least ONE other person. By myself, any such realization is pointless, and very lonely, but if true, then again.., >I< have Him, don't I, which is something that no one and no power can take away, because once the mind and heart chages shape, once you "grok" something, you cannot ungrok it, it's in you. This is the way it is, or is becoming, with me. But He chose me first, his love was first, and he did the work and demonstrated the character, first. Everything I have and am and am becoming through him, I owe to him, and therefore I can never point to myself, and so what am I to do but express him and his perspective as I see it, so as to create a sympathetic harmonious connection, both with him and, most importantly, with you. It's a living "word" then in it's own right, a logos (who's root is logic) which must be shared, and if possible, understood, and so for further "grokking" I point you to his parables, and his interactions, and most but perhaps not all of his words as contained in the King James Bible because we can be pretty sure they shaved away most of his secret wisdom of the ages teachings, as given to his desciples aka as the early gnostic movement of Christianity, which was expunged by the Roman Church as a "heresy" (how ironic).

Best Regards,

NAM


edit on 6-10-2011 by NewAgeMan because: final edit



posted on Oct, 6 2011 @ 10:27 PM
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And that is why - - - no matter what I believe.

I will NEVER use the terminology God.



posted on Oct, 6 2011 @ 10:30 PM
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reply to post by Annee
 


Why's that?



posted on Oct, 7 2011 @ 01:06 AM
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I do find the term "God" to be a bit arrogant... almost every other religion outside of the abrahamic religions refer to their god/gods by a name eg. Zeus, Ahura Mazda, Ra, Brahma, etc.
But the abrahamic religions feel they can just capitalize the 'G' in god, and call their deity that, that is if they even bother capitalizing the g in the first place.
There are supposedly a thousand names for the abrahamic god, and yet they don't use that. Why 'God' why not Jehovah, Adonai, Yahweh, El, or Elohim etc. ?

As for atheism, I share similar beliefs as other people in this thread.
Atheism to me is the lack of belief in a deity.
I realize the dictionary may define it slightly different, but to me those definitions are incorrect, I could explain why, but I do not feel inclined at this moment.

I personally am an agnostic atheist. Meaning, I do not belief in any particular deity, but based on the evidence presented to me, I do not feel I can say one way or another whether a deity does or does not exist.

I will agree that gnostic atheist, aka "No gods exist" atheists, to be a bit pompous and arrogant and almost as bad as gnostic theists. Its one thing to lack a belief in a deity yet another to declare that none exist.
Swaying some times to a solipsist view point, I maintain the only thing we can know with absolute certainty is mathematics and our own existence. And even that is suspect among the universal oneness crowd.

However I will disagree with people here who say, you have to believe in something before you can denounce its possibility...
Does harry potter exist in the real world? No? Does you saying he does no exist first depend on your belief that he does exist in the real world?



posted on Oct, 7 2011 @ 09:25 AM
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Originally posted by FreezingVoid
However I will disagree with people here who say, you have to believe in something before you can denounce its possibility...

Does harry potter exist in the real world? No? Does you saying he does no exist first depend on your belief that he does exist in the real world?


The book Harry Potter exists in physical form - - - it is listed as fiction - - - we know who wrote it.

No one is claiming Harry Potter exists as real. That is not a good analogy.



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