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Challenge: produce two photos from Shanksville scene showing plane wires

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posted on Oct, 6 2011 @ 12:06 AM
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Originally posted by waypastvne
reply to post by Shadow Herder
 


Are you sure you'r not posting in the wrong thread again ? In this thread we determined the wing scars were 124' 10" wide with a 30' crater in the middle where the fuselage impacted. You were unable to provide any evidence that the 124' 10 wing scars were there before 9/11/01 or they were anything other wing scars.


posted this earler.
The crater was created upon and older trench or ditch as you can see in this next image.


The photographer is standing in what is oftenly confused to be caused by wings. As you can they arent. Therefore the crater in Shanksville is too small to have been caused by a fully fueled commercial airliner. 30 feet wide 10 feet deep.
edit on 6-10-2011 by Shadow Herder because: (no reason given)

edit on 6-10-2011 by Shadow Herder because: (no reason given)




posted on Oct, 6 2011 @ 12:22 AM
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Originally posted by Shadow Herder

posted this earler.
The crater was created upon and older trench or ditch as you can see in this next image.


The photographer is standing in what is oftenly confused to be caused by wings. As you can they arent. Therefore the crater in Shanksville is too small to have been caused by a fully fueled commercial airliner. 30 feet wide 10 feet deep.


Ya I saw that post That is one of the many post where;

"You were unable to provide any evidence that the 124' 10 wing scars were there before 9/11/01 or they were anything other wing scars."



posted on Oct, 6 2011 @ 07:38 AM
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Oh ya I forgot, you didnt take grade 8 science yet. Let me explain. If you had a 5 inch diameter ball and whipped at some soft sand at a 45 degree angle you WILL NOT be left with a perfect imprint of the ball. The crater will NOT BE 5 inches it will be greater.

Basic physics. Educate yourself kid before you look even more foolish.



posted on Oct, 6 2011 @ 07:43 AM
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reply to post by GoodOlDave
 


"When it decided to drop, it dropped all of a sudden, like a stone," said Tom Fritz, 63. Fritz was sitting on his porch on Lambertsville Road, about a quarter mile from the crash site, when he heard a sound that "wasn't quite right" and looked up in the sky.

"It was sort of whistling," he said. "It was going so fast that you couldn't even make out what color it was."

I ask you to read that statment......sort of whistling.....Going SOOOOOO fast you could not even make out what color it was......

He is 1/4 mile away.....When is 600mph so fast that you can't make out a jetliner......from a 1/4 mile off.

thanks dave for such a good varifiable witness statment.....with words like in that statment you could almost guarantee it was not a plane.....

That statment alone would make me think it was anything but a plane......not saying it was or wasn't just saying that witnesses statment shows absolutely nothing to say it was what it is stated as being....a 757-222 from a 1/4 mile.

I am sure you do not need a picture of the plane do you.

I worked for PWA when i was young...and i was a ground handler at a small Airport.....and i tell you it is not hard to make out a 737 at speed let alone a 757....from a mere 1/4 mile.....as far as SOOOOOO fast you could not make out the color.....heck what does that have to do with anything.....and what was the context of the question in order to make that stament...was he asked if it was a united flight.



posted on Oct, 6 2011 @ 08:00 AM
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Originally posted by plube
reply to post by GoodOlDave
 

I ask you to read that statment......sort of whistling.....Going SOOOOOO fast you could not even make out what color it was......

He is 1/4 mile away.....When is 600mph so fast that you can't make out a jetliner......from a 1/4 mile off.

thanks dave for such a good varifiable witness statment.....with words like in that statment you could almost guarantee it was not a plane.....



Here are some eyewitnesses. They conflict eachother.


"The lights flickered.....the zapped the radar frequency...... missile or bomb drop."


"Nose dive, 90 degree angle nose dive"


One of the last people to see what crashed was Susan. She saw something small, white, seamless, no windows, size of her van swooped down at street level, banked then crashed... sounds like a cruise missile to me.



posted on Oct, 6 2011 @ 10:35 AM
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Originally posted by GoodOlDave

Originally posted by Shadow Herder
Questions with questions. Terry Butler was miles away from crash site. There were closer witnesses. Deraling.
edit on 5-10-2011 by Shadow Herder because: (no reason given)


All right, fair enough. Here's the testimony of Tom Fritz, as reported by the St. Petersburg Times-

"When it decided to drop, it dropped all of a sudden, like a stone," said Tom Fritz, 63. Fritz was sitting on his porch on Lambertsville Road, about a quarter mile from the crash site, when he heard a sound that "wasn't quite right" and looked up in the sky.

"It was sort of whistling," he said. "It was going so fast that you couldn't even make out what color it was."


So not only did he see the plane "dropping like a stone", his account matches Tery Butler's account to a T, and he lived a quarter mile from the crash site so he had a ring side seat to thew whole thing. You have his name, you have his age, and you even have his address. Is Tom Fritz a secret government agent?






I see Dave is starting to change his tune now from 'those damned fool conspiracy sites' to his 'What? You think everyone is a Government Agent?!' song.

This in part I think because over on his When Did You First Realize All These Conspiracy Stories Were False thread I'm calling ALL Pentagon eyewitness accounts into question because I recently noticed and pointed out the FACT that NOT A SINGLE EYEWITNESS mentioned seeing the white smoke trail under the plane over the Pentagon lawn on 9/11 when a crappy security gate cam picked up the thing. Not a single one.

I mean, he gave me so much information on one witness guy that the next level up was a DNA sample!

Dave, Dave, if I think the witnesses are suspect (of which I have a legitimate concern) and I think you are suspect (of which I have a legitimate concern) then I'm not going to be calling a witness that YOU give me his number to.

Now you're just getting/being ridiculous.

I'll tell you what it's like. It's like Close Encounters of the Third Kind. (Yes Dave "bad analogy" you'll say.)

A movie that eerily reminded me of the Staged Pentagon Scene and Attack.

In it there's a scene where Dreyfus encounters an army type roadblock. Seems there is the FALSE story making the rounds of a DERAILED TRAIN and POISON GAS LEAK that THEY are trying to SELL to keep the public from finding out about the alien landing site.

Dreyfus approaches the roadblock in the movie and then decides to go off road and avoid it altogether. But had he drove right up to it and talked to the head guy he'd have been informed again of the train wreck and gas leak. Asked to PROVE IT, he'd have been shown a few color photographs, mostly obscured and from far away. Asked for more proof, out would come the helicopter video shots, again, from far away, of a nondescript train on its side in a nondescript valley, spewing noxious green poison gas! Asked for more proof, he'd be sat down and shown a Solidworks animated video presentation of the very same helicopter video!! Ask for even more proof, out would come the 'Farmer Brown' information. Turns out the train 'derailed' on Farmer Brown's 1200 acre spread in Wyoming, and he lost 400 head of cattle to the "disaster" (shows pics of apparent dead cattle) and his address is 123 Fake Street and his phone number is 012-345-6789... Who you gonna call? LOL (But if you did call there would be a guy on the other end claiming to indeed be Farmer Brown and he would backup and confirm the train/gas fairytale.)

But WE ALL KNOW (from watching the movie) that it's a FALSE STORY and that really, THEY can't PROVE IT and haven't proved it and have no intention of proving it FOR REAL.

Their job therefore, is just PERSUASION.

This is what I realized from watching CEotTK.

But you see THEY will ask that you PROVE IT! "Where are the Facts?!" "Can you back up that claim?" "Show your work." "You trying to tell me all those witnesses are Government Agents?" "You got to be kidding!"

So recently I realized that if I can't prove it (how you going to prove the train wreck isn't real if you're trapped at a roadblock and everything says it's real? Btw - IT WASN'T REAL. Keep that in mind!) then, well, hey, I can PERSUADE too.

I can cast doubt on the official story in ways (with facts and arguments and by expressing myself) that people may stop and think about it. Maybe read a few things. Discover stuff on their own and contribute too, tell/show others as well etc.

And then maybe 'I told two friends, and they told two friends and so on and so on...'

Some witnesses are Genuine others are Not.
Some photos are Genuine others are Not.
Some crash sites are Genuine others are Not.
Some hijackings are Genuine others are Not.
Some news reports are Genuine others are Not.

And so on and so on...

Cheers
edit on 6-10-2011 by NWOwned because: spelling



posted on Oct, 6 2011 @ 02:11 PM
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reply to post by NWOwned
 



I can cast doubt on the official story in ways (with facts and arguments and by expressing myself) that people may stop and think about it. Maybe read a few things. Discover stuff on their own and contribute too, tell/show others as well etc.

And then maybe 'I told two friends, and they told two friends and so on and so on...'


Well, that sounds great. Sounds like a plan. Its been 10 years now. 10% of a century. When are you going to start? When is anyone going to start?



posted on Oct, 6 2011 @ 05:30 PM
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reply to post by hooper
 


Disregard the last poster. Hooper. He doesnt accept evidence and trolls the 911 forums saying stuff like, give up its 10 years later, you got nothing, stupid truthers....... and latley he lost badly at these forums.

He also has 2-3 tag teamers.... Fact and we all know it too.

911 is serious. Many people died and many people continue to die. If that makes you happy hooper than I so go play in traffic.


Duh u spelt something wrong man..........
edit on 6-10-2011 by Shadow Herder because: (no reason given)



posted on Oct, 6 2011 @ 05:35 PM
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Originally posted by Shadow Herder
reply to post by hooper
 


Disregard the last poster. Hooper. He doesnt except evidence and trolls the 911 forums saying stuff like, give up its 10 years later, you got nothing, stupid truthers.......

He also has 2-3 tag teamers.... Fact and we all know it too.


It's spelled "accept" for future reference. May help you look more intelligent.

As per the topic at hand, you have to admit that there is little to no evidence for denying that there was a plane. I mean, the OS has tapes, debris, impact scars, witnesses (though like any event, they vary. Just ask people what happened in any car accident. I guarantee you will find some extremely conflicting viewpoints). The OS has explanations for everything except why the government failed to defend its own turf from the attacks.

This is the only place I see a conspiracy to logically lie. The government either allowed the attacks to happen through negligence/malignancy, or it aided in the attacks (allowing the terrorists onto the planes, slowing down response times, pretending as if there was no idea that an attack was possible).



posted on Oct, 6 2011 @ 06:17 PM
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Originally posted by Varemia The government either allowed the attacks to happen through negligence/malignancy, or it aided in the attacks (allowing the terrorists onto the planes, slowing down response times, pretending as if there was no idea that an attack was possible).


The crater in Shanksville was caused by something "van sized" and not a Boeing 757. Not denying there werent aircraft in the air considering there were multiple live fly hijacking exercises taking place at the same time as the terror attacks were happening.

If you really want to get into it, Ptech is a software company that writes and runs software for the FAA, Norad, Cia, fbi etc, this company is Israeli. Then you got the Israeli spies shadowing the terrorists as they trained in Florida flight schools. etc etc....... Where do we start?



posted on Oct, 6 2011 @ 06:41 PM
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reply to post by Shadow Herder
 



....there were multiple live fly hijacking exercises taking place at the same time as the terror attacks were happening.

No there weren't. Repeating that won't make it true.

If you really want to get into it, Ptech is a software company that writes and runs software for the FAA, Norad, Cia, fbi etc, this company is Israeli. Then you got the Israeli spies shadowing the terrorists as they trained in Florida flight schools. etc etc....... Where do we start?

OK, here we go. Israel did 9/11. This is pretty much the end of the line. True colors coming through.



posted on Oct, 6 2011 @ 09:54 PM
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Originally posted by hooper
reply to post by Shadow Herder
 



....there were multiple live fly hijacking exercises taking place at the same time as the terror attacks were happening.


If you really want to get into it, Ptech is a software company that writes and runs software for the FAA, Norad, Cia, fbi etc, this company is Israeli. Then you got the Israeli spies shadowing the terrorists as they trained in Florida flight schools. etc etc....... Where do we start?

OK, here we go. Israel did 9/11. This is pretty much the end of the line. True colors coming through.



Oh you are one of those small minded people that if someone mentions Israel they are antisemetic?

Well. This is a flight 93 thread.

People like hooper slither in their seats when you mention the Israeli Pakistan connection to 911. The french and germans played small roles too. So this should be an indicator for you to google this yourself.


1983-July 2008: 9/11 Hijacker’s Two Cousins Allegedly Work as Israeli Spies

Ali al-Jarrah. [Source: Lebanese Military/Public Domain]
Starting in 1983, a Lebanese man named Ali al-Jarrah, cousin of 9/11 hijacker Ziad Jarrah, allegedly works as a spy for the Israeli government.
www.historycommons.org.../11=israel&timeline=complete_911_timeline

This is where the truth movement should move.



posted on Oct, 7 2011 @ 01:36 AM
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reply to post by Shadow Herder
 


already had moved there myself herder....check out my thread in my signature.....i put in a lot of strange coincedences.....It is a good read to say the least.



posted on Oct, 7 2011 @ 11:35 AM
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Somerset County (PA) coroner Wallace Miller


Investigators have positively identified the remains of another 14 persons aboard United Airlines Flight 93 and Somerset County Coroner Wallace Miller said the investigation could conclude more quickly than expected.

At the same time, the high winds that buffeted the area over the last few days have dislodged additional airplane parts -- seat cushions, wiring, carpet fragments and pieces of metal -- from trees near the crash site.

"It's all aircraft parts, no human remains," Miller said. "We've collected them in 10 recycling bin-sized containers and eventually we'll turn them all over to United." .


"additional airplane parts -- seat cushions, wiring"

So wiring was recovered from the crash scene...

If the "truthers" are so concerned about what type of debris was found at the scene can submit a FOIA request
to the FBI asking for relevant photos

Of course we know they will not, because it is not above finding the truth, but feeding their paranoia



posted on Oct, 7 2011 @ 12:56 PM
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reply to post by thedman
 
Your latest 'offering' is amazing. Just when I thought you guys had run out of lame excuses for the lack of evidence of a plane in that hole you come up with this nugget. Could you list for me just what evaporated and what didn't? You see the reason for my confusion is the complete lack of photographic evidence. This obviously doesn't matter to you, but to me it's very important. I've searched thru every damn fool conspiracy website I can find, and there's nothing there.



posted on Oct, 7 2011 @ 01:50 PM
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Originally posted by NWOwned

I see Dave is starting to change his tune now from 'those damned fool conspiracy sites' to his 'What? You think everyone is a Government Agent?!' song.

This in part I think because over on his When Did You First Realize All These Conspiracy Stories Were False thread I'm calling ALL Pentagon eyewitness accounts into question because I recently noticed and pointed out the FACT that NOT A SINGLE EYEWITNESS mentioned seeing the white smoke trail under the plane over the Pentagon lawn on 9/11 when a crappy security gate cam picked up the thing. Not a single one.

I mean, he gave me so much information on one witness guy that the next level up was a DNA sample!

Dave, Dave, if I think the witnesses are suspect (of which I have a legitimate concern) and I think you are suspect (of which I have a legitimate concern) then I'm not going to be calling a witness that YOU give me his number to.

Now you're just getting/being ridiculous.


I am hardly changing my tune. In just about every single thread I'm made posts in, I said at least once that you conspriacy theorists drank so much of the Kool-aid those damned fool conspiracy web sites are serving you that there is literally *nothing* that anyone can possibly show you that would convince you people are wrong. You'll simply make up some pathetic excuse or another for why you shouldn't have to believe it like how everyone is some sinister secret government agent plotting to murder us all. Now, her I've tracked down a real live eyewitness to the Pentagon attack and even posted his email and phone number because in public relations and he's openly inviting people to contact him...and yet you can't even do that much because you think *he's* some sinister secret government agent. You are going the extra mile to prove every syllable I posted is absolutely right and you turn around and say I'm the one being ridiculous.

There are times I think you truthers are really pulling my leg with all this conspiracy baloney.



posted on Oct, 7 2011 @ 01:58 PM
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Originally posted by Shadow Herder
One of the last people to see what crashed was Susan. She saw something small, white, seamless, no windows, size of her van swooped down at street level, banked then crashed... sounds like a cruise missile to me.


It sounds like you're just making stuff up, to me. Cruise missiles don't fly nap of the Earth.

It's almost certainly the case she saw that white corporate jet that ground controllers asked to fly over the crash area.
edit on 7-10-2011 by GoodOlDave because: (no reason given)



posted on Oct, 7 2011 @ 02:08 PM
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Originally posted by GoodOlDave

Originally posted by Shadow Herder
One of the last people to see what crashed was Susan. She saw something small, white, seamless, no windows, size of her van swooped down at street level, banked then crashed... sounds like a cruise missile to me.




It's almost certainly the case she saw that white corporate jet that ground controllers asked to fly over the crash area.
edit on 7-10-2011 by GoodOlDave because: (no reason given)


Nope she confirmed it was not the Falcon or other jet. Whatever it was it crashed. She saw it.



posted on Oct, 7 2011 @ 03:57 PM
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reply to post by dillweed
 


It from an arricle in the Pittsburg Post Gazette published 10 years ago in Oct 2001 - its not new

Its just that I actually do research and not parrot the idiotic nonsense from the internet...

Here is link

www.post-gazette.com...

So who have Wallace MIller, the county coroner responsible for recovery operations stating that crews were
finding wiring in the debris



posted on Oct, 7 2011 @ 08:47 PM
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Wally miller said the crater was 10 feet deep and around 20-30 feet wide. Too small to have been caused by a Boeing 757.



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