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People of the Faith, why must we push others away?

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posted on Oct, 5 2011 @ 08:05 AM
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Yes, so very true. Many of the "true" believers don't follow a religion, but have a personal relationship with God. Once you start becoming more deeper into the faith, you start to realize, (sometimes) even your own pastor is misleading people on some things. The problem I have with today's churches is that you are only hearing one mans viewpoint and his interpretations of the Word. Putting so much stock into one man, you are not letting yourself become closer to God, because you are following everything that he is saying, and not taking the time out to let God guide you and not a man.
reply to post by jhill76
 


Putting so much stock into ones Preacher can also be a major let down. When I was younger having a next door neighbor for a Pastor was eye opening. Man of God swearing, drinking, smoking, and having sex on the first date was in my opinion shocking. My little spirit at the time was disappointed.


When I had a question pertaining to a scripture and asked a man of God for an answer most of the time they either didn't answer it the way I thought they should or they went around the question without really answering it.

After I grew up and spoke with my Dad about his Ministry in the Methodist Church he told me a lot of things I never knew that pertained to Hades and the way he was taught to preach the Word. That too was eye opening.

I came up with my own conclusion about Ministers. They are all sinners...all trying to find their way and my way may be a different way than what they preach. When I became ok with that and began talking to other Christians about the way I am going and what I believe to be Truth, they belittled me, stopped talking to me, said I was not a Christian if I didn't believe every single word of the Bible and so on.

For me, Church is not in a building listening to some mans opinion. I do not attend church. When I go to church I cry A LOT because I am very moved by the music and sometimes the sermon. I prefer not to go to church though because most of the time I do not feel in my heart that "I belong" there. I have just never felt that. I don't think I need to get all dressed up to go and listen to someone preach the Word in a way that I do not agree with. The fellowship is nice but I get that at my home, on ATS, with my friends....even my kids.

If a person really wants to get close to God I suggest they seek Him.

When people ask What is God? You can't see him. There is no proof!

Yes, there is proof. There is a book called the Bible and in this book Jesus tells all who is listening what God is.

God is Love.

Is there any proof? Yes.....you can see the action of LOVE throughout creation.

First there was a cause/source (God). This cause moved and the effect is Love. You can sense Love everywhere in His creation.

By MY observation there is indeed proof that God is Love.


.




posted on Oct, 5 2011 @ 08:27 AM
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reply to post by SuperiorEd
 


You wrote:

["Not only do we love others when living out our faith, we must also remove bias and pride as well."]

This idea would sound more convincing, if christians started with themselves first concerning removal of pride and bias.



edit on 5-10-2011 by bogomil because: typos



posted on Oct, 5 2011 @ 01:16 PM
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Originally posted by bogomil
reply to post by SuperiorEd
 


You wrote:

["Not only do we love others when living out our faith, we must also remove bias and pride as well."]

This idea would sound more convincing, if christians started with themselves first concerning removal of pride and bias.



edit on 5-10-2011 by bogomil because: typos


I believe that is a collective ego problem that won't go away until the individual person lose their ego or they are told by some higher power the truth. The problem might be lack of faith or that the faith is so invested in the bible that they can't tell religon and faith apart.



posted on Oct, 5 2011 @ 01:31 PM
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I kinda love the thought of All is One. You can see it on muslims facebook pages where the say All(ah) is one. Buddhist and Hindus of course think so becuase that is their goal to join the one.

U2 song one make a lot of more sense when you can replace one with god:
www.sing365.com...

Led Zepelin Stairway to heaven:
www.azlyrics.com...

When you look at the lyrics of musicians you get a feeling there is a lot of hidden information in plain sight. If you can figure it out then you are supposed to understand the big picture. If you can't then your not supposed to understand yeet.

Also god has a tendency to use synchronicity to make us understand things. If your not used to the concept check it out.



posted on Oct, 5 2011 @ 04:06 PM
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Originally posted by bogomil
reply to post by SuperiorEd
 


You wrote:

["Not only do we love others when living out our faith, we must also remove bias and pride as well."]

This idea would sound more convincing, if christians started with themselves first concerning removal of pride and bias.


edit on 5-10-2011 by bogomil because: typos


There is a difference between standing for truth and standing against others in hatred and prejudice. You are correct in the fact that there are those who stand in error against others who claim faith. No doubt about it. Standing for truth is not the same.



posted on Oct, 6 2011 @ 03:00 PM
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Originally posted by jhill76
"I'll pray for your lost soul." My brothers and sisters, this is doing more harm than any good.


Why is praying for my lost soul doing harm?



posted on Oct, 6 2011 @ 03:06 PM
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Why is praying for my lost soul doing harm?
reply to post by greyer
 


There is no harm with the act....it is only harmful to tell people "I will pray for your lost soul" as in ....."I am better than you". How can I be a judge of someones soul? Only God is granted that right imo.



posted on Oct, 6 2011 @ 03:32 PM
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Originally posted by Unvarnished
Romans 15: - "Accept one another, then, just as Christ accepted you, in order to bring praise to God."

is highly contradicted by:

Deuteronomy 23:1 - "If a man's testicles are crushed or his penis is cut off, he may not be admitted to the assembly of the LORD."

You are a jerk, and if that turns you off the faith then so be it. What a goof.



posted on Oct, 6 2011 @ 03:39 PM
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Originally posted by jhill76
It is with great sadness that many people of the Faith, take the wrong stance on debating and talking about the Word of God. What I mean is those of us who say, "I'm right your wrong." Or, "I'll pray for your lost soul." My brothers and sisters, this is doing more harm than any good. Do we not see this? No man in this world can save a person. We can plant the seed, but we can't do the saving. For God calls whom he wants at the appointed time, we can not do this by our own hand.

Romans 15: - Accept one another, then, just as Christ accepted you, in order to bring praise to God.

I hate to admit, we as people of the Faith turn more people away from the Faith than bringing people in. Do we not see, why many just don't want to hear it? People don't want to hear you need Jesus. They heard this all of their lives. Try a different approach. Help them on their daily, for they will know who you are by your works. When the time is right, and you will know it, then guide them to salvation, and even then tread carefully. For you have a potential believer in your hands. Do we not see the value in this???

Above is a very direct approach many take, but what about when we take an indirect approach.

Gloria has been working with Mike for the past three years. Mike has been trying to get Gloria to attend church with him, but she is very hesitant, as she has never been exposed to church in her life and she feels she is almost there just not quite ready yet. Tuesday morning, Gloria goes over to Mike’s office as feels that she might try attending church this coming Sunday. Gloria approaches Mike and asks, “I think I am ready to go with you to church, does the offer still stand?” Mike replies in turn, “To be honest Gloria, I don’t know why I was going to church myself, I simply don’t believe anymore.” Gloria was not going by herself; she was going to bring her sister and her two teenage sons. Mike was the only person who cared deeply enough about Gloria’s soul to ask her to attend church. Gloria looked forward to Mikes and her conversation about God at work. Now, Gloria decides just to forget about going to church and continue doing what she has been doing. She feels that if Mike, the only person she knew that was driven to talk about God in her life, didn’t believe anymore, she wasn’t going to believe either. We can see here, that when we get down for a minute, it effected six different lives. These people will probably go years before they get back on the path.

I urge us, people of the Faith, to not push others away, but see from their point of view and not just your own. You could do so much good, if you used LOVE, and not judgement. For judgement is reserved for GOD, and no man.
edit on 4-10-2011 by jhill76 because: (no reason given)


I understand your point, thanks for bringing this up,
im with Mike on this, but I think Mike has to be given a break here, if God was in charge of growing the seed then Mike being a seed himself may have been under attack and things didn't work out well for him, the many that would have followed Mike into glory would also be walking into the same battle field, its not easy to lead others into a battle when you yourself have been shot and lay in a pool of blood calling for a medic.

I took my wife to a church to get saved once..and after service they told her to make an appointment, so she did, and when she went to see this guy who was the co pastor all he did was ask her about why she wanted to be saved and made her feel disgusted with herself and guilty and then had her kneel in front of him to confess..
shaming her in front of me, no man should make my wife kneel before him like that ..

I went to a christian chat room last few weeks to seek encouragement cause i was feeling defeated, and all I heard everyone doing in that chat was talking about how so and so did this..and how she shouldn't do this cause its not right and this and that person is evil..and was amazed at how many people were using truth as a reason to beat others , the image that came to mind was children holding stones in their hands looking for justification to use em..So i said in the chat outright, "children with stones looking for justification"..because that what I seen..
Christians are suppose to be able to to handle truth right? well two seconds after I said that I was banned! LOL go figure? lol hey no big deal ..just sayen..Christians are the most judgmental people I have ever met? so far, and they are not understanding people..their very dogmatic and tend to push people into classifications..like im dong now with describing them..but hey ..the subject about pushing away is brought up here.
I love God and dont deny him or his son Jesus, and I am a christian.
I dont go to church or nor would i invite the broken hearted or hurt into that place ..people in them place need eachother for allot more reasons then saving..



posted on Oct, 6 2011 @ 06:52 PM
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You push others away because your message has no logic or reason. It has only a few niceties about loving others, but that's about it. People know to do that anyway. Right and wrong was in the human mind long before the Ten Commandments or Jesus came along. (The Ten Commandments were stolen from Hammurabi, and Jesus stole the Golden Rule from Hillel.)

So, here you are living in a very interesting time. A time where you can actually witness the deconstruction and dismemberment of your own religion. In 100 years, very few people will be religious at all. You don't believe that of course, but at the height of the worship of Zeus, they all thought the same thing.

Seriously, nothing you can say or do will stop this. You cannot convert people at the same rate people are rejecting your god. You will believe in your Jesus (Yah-Zeus) all your life, but your children probably won't, and certainly not your grand-children. In the information age, logic is king, not Jesus and superstition.



posted on Oct, 6 2011 @ 08:07 PM
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reply to post by DoctorHouseMD
 


That's because you classify people of faith and religion in the same category, there is a big difference. Just because people stop going to church doesn't mean they don't believe.



posted on Oct, 7 2011 @ 07:57 AM
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You push others away because your message has no logic or reason. It has only a few niceties about loving others, but that's about it. People know to do that anyway. Right and wrong was in the human mind long before the Ten Commandments or Jesus came along.
reply to post by DoctorHouseMD
 


I mean no disrespect in this reply to you.


I quoted the above because I am confused by it. I am offering another angle to look at....from my point of view.

We have about 6+ billion people residing on Earth and to say "your message" has no logic or reason makes ...no sense to me. If "your message" means the Christian message then I would assume you are speaking of "Jesus Message" .....but again....there are many"messages" you may be referring to....I am not sure.

Every single person has an idea of who God is and who God is not.

For the Atheist......they still must define who they do not believe in. It is totally illogical to say I don't believe in God. IMO an atheist believes and doesn't even know it.
They have a belief in some "thing".

Also, religion/spirituality has always existed and will always exist. You know why? Because we are spirit beings having a human experience. It is illogical to think any other way. There is No reason to think we do not continue on a journey when the flesh leaves the spirit....we are after all ENERGY that does not cease.


You also said something about loving others and how people do that anyway.

DO THEY REALLY?

I disagree and not only do I disagree If you think about the people in your life and all around you...how many of them SHOW you love? Your family? Probably.

Why is it your family loves you while your peers are more distant with their love?

If one just takes this site....this site alone and wander around from thread to thread you will not see people loving each other.

Reasoning tells ME your family loves you in a way others do not because you have a tie....a bond....since birth you came into this family and you are loved.

A person of TRUE faith sees you as his/her family. They feel a tie, a bond with you as their brother/sister and have love for you. Why? Because this is their belief. They see no separation what so ever. You may be a different color, have a different spiritual view, or possibly no spiritual view...but....it doesn't matter to the person who has discovered their true self..which leads to that faith of the hidden self and God.

To think everything and everyone is here by chance imo is totally illogical and has no reason with it. When you study the different faiths and the Universe, and other Planets you get an idea of who we really are, where we have been, and where we are going.



posted on Oct, 7 2011 @ 01:56 PM
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I woke up with this thought on this subject , in regards to Mike in your analogy, you said
"Mike was the only person who cared deeply enough about Gloria’s soul to ask her to attend church."
and my thought is 'what about Mike?' if he was thought to be as Important as to have the role he did, did not God indorse it to be so, I mean who in the christian faith is allowed to believe in coincidence right? I know God directs and people 'Choose' yes? well I'm not knocking Mike, I'm looking at the role of the other Christians that would look at Mike as a the failure in his role, but wait, it doesn't stop there, I mean where is the help for Mikes here? who cares about Mike now? hes a looser one to blame for all this mess, do you know how ruthless they will be to him now? how they will gather around him and begin to stone him down and out cast him, it may be even mentioned that he would have been better for him to not even have tried.
I'm with Mike here, if he was once in a role considered important by God to be a testimony or a doorway for saving lives, then cast away like # paper after the duty ..its not right. why just take snapshots of a loss and not count the loss justifiably, the root here is that God will prepare a way and a leader to pint the way, but what we do to the leader who pointed the way tells a great deal why traveling down any road to save our collective ass's makes doesn't make us any better in the end to even deserve it, ..

there are two kind of people going into churches nowadays,
one kind goes to ask God to save them,
the other goes in to help God save people..

so we cant go anywhere without stopping to help Mike here, get it?
in saving Mike we get the rest who were given to Mike and we ourselves will then know the value in the joy of being saved by making sure the ones in service can serve without fail.

"I desire mercy and not sacrifice'
bible.cc...



posted on Oct, 7 2011 @ 02:42 PM
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Originally posted by greyer

Originally posted by jhill76
"I'll pray for your lost soul." My brothers and sisters, this is doing more harm than any good.


Why is praying for my lost soul doing harm?


I think she means the ego and pride that they would know better is making people turn from faith. I don't belive a person that stands up for what he/she belive is right, and has compassion and love has a lost soul even if she/he don't belive in god.

And praying for your soul is counterproductive from my point of view. Instead if you have done bad things accept that you have done them and learn from them so you don't do them again. Guilt does not help. Do everything you can to fix things and appolagize. I know this can be really hard. Do other good things to help shape a better future and make yourself feel better. Praying for guideens on how to fix things is very productive
. So if you wanna help somebody pray that he/she finds her way. Just a suggestion I might be wrong.
edit on 7-10-2011 by apushforenlightment because: clarification



posted on Oct, 7 2011 @ 10:05 PM
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Originally posted by apushforenlightment
praying for your soul is counterproductive from my point of view.
edit on 7-10-2011 by apushforenlightment because: clarification


Thank you for the clarification, I am not suggesting to pray for every soul of the world, and those strangers on ATS you care less about, I am just saying to have a decent mind.



posted on Oct, 7 2011 @ 10:09 PM
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Originally posted by MamaJ
There is no harm with the act....it is only harmful to tell people "I will pray for your lost soul" as in ....."I am better than you". How can I be a judge of someones soul? Only God is granted that right imo.

Thank you for understanding, I was noticing your posts are very well written.



posted on Oct, 8 2011 @ 10:49 PM
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reply to post by E†E
 


Thanks for the reply. That was an excerpt from a book I am writing, and I didn't include all of the background information. My main basis for saying this is that, many of us (I don't care how strong you are) get down sometimes and question or even doubt. I went on the extreme side with Mike though. Mike shouldn't have acted on impulse at that moment just because he was down, I'm not blaming him, but many of us act on impulse, and it has very damaging results. I suggested he should have just introduced her to someone else so that she may still continue on her path, if he was down or doubting at that time, if that makes sense.



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