People of the Faith, why must we push others away?

It is with great sadness that many people of the Faith, take the wrong stance on debating and talking about the Word of God. What I mean is those of us who say, "I'm right your wrong." Or, "I'll pray for your lost soul." My brothers and sisters, this is doing more harm than any good. Do we not see this? No man in this world can save a person. We can plant the seed, but we can't do the saving. For God calls whom he wants at the appointed time, we can not do this by our own hand.

Romans 15: - Accept one another, then, just as Christ accepted you, in order to bring praise to God.

I hate to admit, we as people of the Faith turn more people away from the Faith than bringing people in. Do we not see, why many just don't want to hear it? People don't want to hear you need Jesus. They heard this all of their lives. Try a different approach. Help them on their daily, for they will know who you are by your works. When the time is right, and you will know it, then guide them to salvation, and even then tread carefully. For you have a potential believer in your hands. Do we not see the value in this???

Above is a very direct approach many take, but what about when we take an indirect approach.

Gloria has been working with Mike for the past three years. Mike has been trying to get Gloria to attend church with him, but she is very hesitant, as she has never been exposed to church in her life and she feels she is almost there just not quite ready yet. Tuesday morning, Gloria goes over to Mike’s office as feels that she might try attending church this coming Sunday. Gloria approaches Mike and asks, “I think I am ready to go with you to church, does the offer still stand?” Mike replies in turn, “To be honest Gloria, I don’t know why I was going to church myself, I simply don’t believe anymore.” Gloria was not going by herself; she was going to bring her sister and her two teenage sons. Mike was the only person who cared deeply enough about Gloria’s soul to ask her to attend church. Gloria looked forward to Mikes and her conversation about God at work. Now, Gloria decides just to forget about going to church and continue doing what she has been doing. She feels that if Mike, the only person she knew that was driven to talk about God in her life, didn’t believe anymore, she wasn’t going to believe either. We can see here, that when we get down for a minute, it effected six different lives. These people will probably go years before they get back on the path.

I urge us, people of the Faith, to not push others away, but see from their point of view and not just your own. You could do so much good, if you used LOVE, and not judgement. For judgement is reserved for GOD, and no man.

Romans 15: - "Accept one another, then, just as Christ accepted you, in order to bring praise to God."

is highly contradicted by:

Deuteronomy 23:1 - "If a man's testicles are crushed or his penis is cut off, he may not be admitted to the assembly of the LORD."

reply to post by Unvarnished


That verse has nothing to do with salvation, but holding an office during that time period.

reply to post by jhill76


Of course it does, think about it, if you are calling for people to join together, and these people do not have testicles, obviously they cannot join together in faith. That is my point.

reply to post by jhill76


And isn't entering the assembly of the Lord considered salvation? I would definitely think so. I would love to be in the assembly of Jesus Christ, but unfortunately I will not be able to because of a lack of testicles.

reply to post by jhill76


excuse me while i try to trip you up a little

I urge us, people of the Faith, to not push others away, but see from their point of view and not just your own. You could do so much good, if you used LOVE, and not judgement. For judgement is reserved for GOD, and no man.

Yet in a recent thread you posted...

Many have also come of speaking of love, this is very easy to hide under, claim love and peace to all. If you come claiming love, people will automatically assume you have good intentions. Since we are on ATS, many, especially those new to the faith or the on the fence ones, have to be extra vigilant to ease into their message. The darkness (Satan, below, demons, etc.) has great patience in deceiving many. It is easy for them to sound good and use big words in their message as to sound intelligent, but be careful. If they can not claim Jesus as Lord, then they are of dark and no light is found in them. As it is written

And, this speaking of Misguided love...

It confuses people, it misleads, and it will lead to many peoples demise.

I preach love... and i do not claim Jesus as God. I call him my example...

1. So will you condem me for this?

2. Am i misguided?

3. If i do not believe what you do, will i go to hell?

reply to post by Unvarnished


It was common practice among the tribes that Israel came in contact with to practice making eunuchs as part of their pagan ceremonies. God wanted to keep His chosen people free from those influences and said this.

You have to understand that the OT law books, (half of Exodus, Leviticus, Numbers, Deuteronomy) are the laws that God gave when the nation of Israel was first forming. He wanted to keep this chosen people as clean as possible and instituted laws that would make it near impossible to assimilate with the other groups of people.

Originally posted by Akragon
reply to post by jhill76

 

excuse me while i try to trip you up a little

I urge us, people of the Faith, to not push others away, but see from their point of view and not just your own. You could do so much good, if you used LOVE, and not judgement. For judgement is reserved for GOD, and no man.

Yet in a recent thread you posted...

Many have also come of speaking of love, this is very easy to hide under, claim love and peace to all. If you come claiming love, people will automatically assume you have good intentions. Since we are on ATS, many, especially those new to the faith or the on the fence ones, have to be extra vigilant to ease into their message. The darkness (Satan, below, demons, etc.) has great patience in deceiving many. It is easy for them to sound good and use big words in their message as to sound intelligent, but be careful. If they can not claim Jesus as Lord, then they are of dark and no light is found in them. As it is written

And, this speaking of Misguided love...

It confuses people, it misleads, and it will lead to many peoples demise.

I preach love... and i do not claim Jesus as God. I call him my example...

1. So will you condem me for this?

2. Am i misguided?

3. If i do not believe what you do, will i go to hell?

1. I will not condemn.
2. I don't judge, I can only assist.
3. No. I will take this to private message and explain this one. This is one of those that will upset many.

I was speaking of people who hide under the guise of love to get into other peoples head with a different message. In this thread, many people use judgement without having love for the ones who are lost, want information, or have a differing opinion. Those two quotes have different meanings.

I definitely agree with the OP that the "I am right, you are wrong" and "You're going to hell threads are certainly annoying and put off people. This is not the way to reach out to people who, we as Christians believe are in need of the Good News. But I personally believe there is a fine line between tact and conformity.

Romans 12:2
And BE NOT CONFORMED to this world: but BE ye transformed by the renewing of your mind, that ye may prove what [is] that good, and acceptable, and perfect, will of God.

As Christians we need to make sure we are not buying into the philosophies of man and are keeping our eyes on the Lord.

Not trying to preach to any unbelievers here- just throwing my 2 cents in to the OP who appears to be a fellow believer.

Originally posted by jhill76

Originally posted by Akragon
reply to post by jhill76

 

excuse me while i try to trip you up a little

I urge us, people of the Faith, to not push others away, but see from their point of view and not just your own. You could do so much good, if you used LOVE, and not judgement. For judgement is reserved for GOD, and no man.

Yet in a recent thread you posted...

Many have also come of speaking of love, this is very easy to hide under, claim love and peace to all. If you come claiming love, people will automatically assume you have good intentions. Since we are on ATS, many, especially those new to the faith or the on the fence ones, have to be extra vigilant to ease into their message. The darkness (Satan, below, demons, etc.) has great patience in deceiving many. It is easy for them to sound good and use big words in their message as to sound intelligent, but be careful. If they can not claim Jesus as Lord, then they are of dark and no light is found in them. As it is written

And, this speaking of Misguided love...

It confuses people, it misleads, and it will lead to many peoples demise.

I preach love... and i do not claim Jesus as God. I call him my example...

1. So will you condem me for this?

2. Am i misguided?

3. If i do not believe what you do, will i go to hell?

1. I will not condemn.
2. I don't judge, I can only assist.
3. No. I will take this to private message and explain this one. This is one of those that will upset many.

I was speaking of people who hide under the guise of love to get into other peoples head with a different message. In this thread, many people use judgement without having love for the ones who are lost, want information, or have a differing opinion. Those two quotes have different meanings.

Sounds good to me, though remember this is a public forum... And this is your thread...

You may have some oppostion to what you say...

Thus far i've had no issues, just quesitons

Originally posted by jhill76
It is with great sadness that many people of the Faith, take the wrong stance on debating and talking about the Word of God. What I mean is those of us who say, "I'm right your wrong." Or, "I'll pray for your lost soul." My brothers and sisters, this is doing more harm than any good. Do we not see this? No man in this world can save a person. We can plant the seed, but we can't do the saving. For God calls whom he wants at the appointed time, we can not do this by our own hand.

Romans 15: - Accept one another, then, just as Christ accepted you, in order to bring praise to God.

I hate to admit, we as people of the Faith turn more people away from the Faith than bringing people in. Do we not see, why many just don't want to hear it? People don't want to hear you need Jesus. They heard this all of their lives. Try a different approach. Help them on their daily, for they will know who you are by your works. When the time is right, and you will know it, then guide them to salvation, and even then tread carefully. For you have a potential believer in your hands. Do we not see the value in this???

Above is a very direct approach many take, but what about when we take an indirect approach.

Gloria has been working with Mike for the past three years. Mike has been trying to get Gloria to attend church with him, but she is very hesitant, as she has never been exposed to church in her life and she feels she is almost there just not quite ready yet. Tuesday morning, Gloria goes over to Mike’s office as feels that she might try attending church this coming Sunday. Gloria approaches Mike and asks, “I think I am ready to go with you to church, does the offer still stand?” Mike replies in turn, “To be honest Gloria, I don’t know why I was going to church myself, I simply don’t believe anymore.” Gloria was not going by herself; she was going to bring her sister and her two teenage sons. Mike was the only person who cared deeply enough about Gloria’s soul to ask her to attend church. Gloria looked forward to Mikes and her conversation about God at work. Now, Gloria decides just to forget about going to church and continue doing what she has been doing. She feels that if Mike, the only person she knew that was driven to talk about God in her life, didn’t believe anymore, she wasn’t going to believe either. We can see here, that when we get down for a minute, it effected six different lives. These people will probably go years before they get back on the path.

I urge us, people of the Faith, to not push others away, but see from their point of view and not just your own. You could do so much good, if you used LOVE, and not judgement. For judgement is reserved for GOD, and no man.

edit on 4-10-2011 by jhill76 because: (no reason given)

The problem for me with Christianity is the ego that i supposes it is the only way. That you go to hell if you don't belive the right way. God don't have an ego. He has made us different for a reason. You can reach spiritual awakeening from different directions. The important thing is not that I go by christ or buddha or If you have your own idee of how god works, but that I reach the goal. I have been given the gift of being in the light of god. It's a physical thing that makes you very calm and harmonous and loving. I did not go by Jesus but I love his teachings. Buddhism makes me understand karma. A new agebook was the way god led me to him. If I was going to hell beacause I was not going by Jesus why would god bless me like he is. Why would I think that i am a the exact place I should be doing exactly what I am supposed to do. Understand that I am not afraid of anything. I know that im going home after I die. There is nothing to be afraid of. The game is rigged and the pieces have already been placed as they are supposed to be. You can probably feel the change coming as I can. We can see it in the news all over the world. The fact that time seems faster is kinda fun also. Embrace the change and be the change.

The problem for me with Christianity is the ego that i supposes it is the only way. That you go to hell if you don't belive the right way. God don't have an ego. He has made us different for a reason. You can reach spiritual awakeening from different directions. The important thing is not that I go by christ or buddha or If you have your own idee of how god works, but that I reach the goal. I have been given the gift of being in the light of god. It's a physical thing that makes you very calm and harmonous and loving. I did not go by Jesus but I love his teachings. Buddhism makes me understand karma. A new agebook was the way god led me to him. If I was going to hell beacause I was not going by Jesus why would god bless me like he is. Why would I think that i am a the exact place I should be doing exactly what I am supposed to do. Understand that I am not afraid of anything. I know that im going home after I die. There is nothing to be afraid of. The game is rigged and the pieces have already been placed as they are supposed to be. You can probably feel the change coming as I can. We can see it in the news all over the world. The fact that time seems faster is kinda fun also. Embrace the change and be the change.

reply to post by apushforenlightment


This was beautiful and I concur 100%!!! I was moved when I read this....

Practice makes perfect and we can all practice loving all for their differences.

Christinanity contradicts itself in scripture as shown by the poster who qouted dueteronomy (sp).

Christinanity attempts seperate itself from other religons and even within itself, but call for an assembly of ALL (as long as you follow the religous law).

Christinanity claims to be monotheistic, yet contains the holy trinity, 12 disciples, multiple prophets, and of course the saints. I do not care how you want to twist it this IS polytheism.

Christinanity is an adolescent religon that tries to push its parent religon far away, yet practices many of the parents theology under a new guise (and of course the most important theologies they hold for the high court to know and only the high court to know). This results in scripture that has been revised, its word to become foggy and up for personal debate, and displaced faith.

The problem with religon is exactly as OP has stated: there is no middle ground.

Originally posted by Unvarnished
Romans 15: - "Accept one another, then, just as Christ accepted you, in order to bring praise to God."

is highly contradicted by:

Deuteronomy 23:1 - "If a man's testicles are crushed or his penis is cut off, he may not be admitted to the assembly of the LORD."

Admitted to the assembly of the LORD was a way of saying that they could not marry into the family of the LORD since they could not pass on their seed to carry on the nation. The Jewish people were entering into the promised land and there were restrictions placed on the assembly, or the family unit. Mixing seed from other nations was also prohibited. Much of what people like to see as a restriction on the believer is only a restriction on the people of Israel for the purpose of preserving the seed of Abraham as the light unto the nations. These have little to do with us today. The law was a guardian.

Galatians 3

23 Before the coming of this faith, we were held in custody under the law, locked up until the faith that was to come would be revealed. 24 So the law was our guardian until Christ came that we might be justified by faith. 25 Now that this faith has come, we are no longer under a guardian.

26 So in Christ Jesus you are all children of God through faith, 27 for all of you who were baptized into Christ have clothed yourselves with Christ. 28 There is neither Jew nor Gentile, neither slave nor free, nor is there male and female, for you are all one in Christ Jesus. 29 If you belong to Christ, then you are Abraham’s seed, and heirs according to the promise.

Good point you make there in the OP about loving others. Not only do we love others when living out our faith, we must also remove bias and pride as well. Communication needs two qualities: 1) Love 2) Truth Condescension, anger, bias and pride have no place with truth.

Psalm 145:18

The LORD is near to all who call on him, to all who call on him in truth.

The problem with religon is exactly as OP has stated: there is no middle ground.

reply to post by ImmortalThought



I see middle ground being unconditional love.

Jesus is an example as to how we can show love unconditionally. There are many others I know but Jesus is different, special, and claimed a lot more than the others. I see and sense he taught love and said "God is love". Showing Love is showing others God in the flesh as He is in spirit always... This is my opinion.

Others who have an opinion different than mine are not wrong in my eyes....I do not know for a fact anything other than I AM. I AM aware, I move, I sense. I am made in God's image possibly. He is aware, He moves, and He senses. He is LOVE as Jesus said. Being made aware that every time you show love you are showing another brother/sister God. It trickles to the edge of the Universe and has an effect from the cause which is ever lasting life. Ever lasting life can be what you have sown. This is my opinion.

I could go on for days telling you a belief of mine. There are 6 billion plus other beliefs and if we are all going to get along and live a more happy and more peaceful life we all all going to have to come together and say....you know what I am not a judge for the after life. You can believe or not believe whatever you want as long as it shows love to me and others it is ok.

I can't save anyone and neither can a Christian. We can all help each other know Love by showing it to everyone we come in contact with. This is how to bring people closer to God (and or Jesus) in my opinion. A being embraced with the daily intent of love comes closer to obtaining the God consciousness whereas you become Love. This is what we have eternity for... to love

reply to post by MamaJ

I can't save anyone and neither can a Christian.

But you see, you can... and do by spreading this message....

We can all help each other know Love by showing it to everyone we come in contact with. This is how to bring people closer to God (and or Jesus) in my opinion. A being embraced with the daily intent of love comes closer to obtaining the God consciousness whereas you become Love. This is what we have eternity for... to love

Well said sister...

Be love

reply to post by MamaJ


Seems to me MamaJ you have risen above religon then.

And it should be recognized that Jesus was a revolutionist. "Those who walk in other's tracks leave no footprints." He had no intention to create a new religon, he grew up in the Jewish faith and later recognized the RELIGON, not just specifically the Jewish faith, but all religon as blasphemy.

Jesus taught old hermetic philosophy to people and began a "new" way of thinking that directly connected people to God without the middleman. Religon did not like this because he took control from their hands and placed it in the individuals. Unconditional Love was one of the practices that allowed others to find the middle ground between themselves, others, and the divine ego or GOD.

Religon is like a one way road. Enlightenment, unconditional love, and heaven are only attainable after specific steps are made that agree with the given religous law.

What Jesus taught were many practices to help you along whatever path you chose to find GOD. These were not limited because as he knew all to well and beyond his time, is that God is infinite. Therefore the practices are infinite and the middle ground was intention OR as you stated unconditional love.

Originally posted by ImmortalThought
reply to post by MamaJ

 

Seems to me MamaJ you have risen above religon then.

And it should be recognized that Jesus was a revolutionist. "Those who walk in other's tracks leave no footprints." He had no intention to create a new religon, he grew up in the Jewish faith and later recognized the RELIGON, not just specifically the Jewish faith, but all religon as blasphemy.

Jesus taught old hermetic philosophy to people and began a "new" way of thinking that directly connected people to God without the middleman. Religon did not like this because he took control from their hands and placed it in the individuals. Unconditional Love was one of the practices that allowed others to find the middle ground between themselves, others, and the divine ego or GOD.

Religon is like a one way road. Enlightenment, unconditional love, and heaven are only attainable after specific steps are made that agree with the given religous law.

What Jesus taught were many practices to help you along whatever path you chose to find GOD. These were not limited because as he knew all to well and beyond his time, is that God is infinite. Therefore the practices are infinite and the middle ground was intention OR as you stated unconditional love.

The Jesus you stated is also the Jesus I have formed an invisible relationship with so to speak. His teachings did not teach me to conform within a religion and I too think he taught against it. His teachings have taught me unconditional love is what he had for others while in the flesh and when he said he was the way...I believed/believe him. If someone else has a different view, it is not for me to judge because I have no idea the path they may have chosen to find him/love/God.

reply to post by MamaJ


You are on the right path. Good speaking with you. It seems you know how to pull people into an understanding of faith instead of pushing them away (just to tie back into the original purpose of this thread).

reply to post by MamaJ

His teachings did not teach me to conform within a religion and I too think he taught against it.

Yes, so very true. Many of the "true" believers don't follow a religion, but have a personal relationship with God. Once you start becoming more deeper into the faith, you start to realize, (sometimes) even your own pastor is misleading people on some things. The problem I have with today's churches is that you are only hearing one mans viewpoint and his interpretations of the Word. Putting so much stock into one man, you are not letting yourself become closer to God, because you are following everything that he is saying, and not taking the time out to let God guide you and not a man.