Many have come under the guise of love to deceive

Originally posted by jmdewey60
reply to post by jhill76

 

Trust me I'm not looking at the English translation!

Not only do I not trust you, I am on the opposite end of the scale. For one thing you are not a Christian so that seems not right to me, discussing Christian doctrines but not being a Christian tells me you are the enemy of Christianity which you want to destroy.
ETA: so if you are not looking at the Bible, and still discussing the verses in it, while claiming a special knowledge leads me to assume you are following Satan, or one of Satan's horde. If you know something in a legitimate way, you could explain how it is you come to this knowledge.

edit on 6-10-2011 by jmdewey60 because: (no reason given)

Hmmm. There you go assuming again. I said I don't follow man's religion. Christianity means to be Christ like. That I am. Religion and having a strong personal relationship with Jehovah is two different things. You counter things you do not know. This is to be expected. Credibility can't be gained on a public forum.

reply to post by jmdewey60


See what you just wrote. If I have more, why must I have to follow Satan to have this? Why do you give credit to him for? Did you ever wonder, if Satan gets to put people on this Earth to decieve, Father doesn't put people here for noble causes?

reply to post by jhill76
I think there is a fine line between God and Satan, mainly because I think that who we call Satan is a god. W don't have the actual God, who we think of as who has to be the "One and Only God", around to examine to make a comparison between the two. Who we do have, and who knows God, is Jesus. The point being, if you meet someone who seems like what you might expect a "true God" to be like, obviously it is not. All you will ever meet is Jesus. If you meet a god other than Jesus, it is Satan pretending to be God.
I bought a nice new lexicon which was a bit expensive but I did find something very useful for my 2 Corinthians 5:1-8 translation. With the first word in this passage, Paul is telling the listeners to this letter being read, "Understand this metaphorically. . ."

Not a bad thread, pretty good read indeed. I agree with a lot of what you are saying, espessily the whole love and peace thing. Although I hold a "some what" different view of the Godhead than you do, but it is close to the same.

And yes, Jesus Christ is most certainly God. There is no doubt about that to anyone that has read the Bible through at least a few times. From what I have seen, there are at least 100 verses showing Jesus Christ and God the Father as one and the same. (not to mention the Holy Ghost as well.)

reply to post by KJV1611
None of those verses hold up to any kind of close scrutiny.
If you hold to a "King James Only", and a "King James is more authoritative than Paul" policy and ignore evidence, then sure, you can think all kinds of happy thoughts by reading a book specifically designed to support all the doctrines of the Church, which they already had firmly in pace.

reply to post by jmdewey60


I wasn't talking to you....attention hog.
(*shakes dust of shoes off at you*)

"Many have come under the guise of love to deceive."

That would apply to Jesus most of all.

reply to post by DoctorHouseMD

"Many have come under the guise of love to deceive."

That would apply to Jesus most of all.

oh really?

Jesus Christ said:
MATTHEW 10:34
"Think not that I am come to send peace on earth: I came not to send peace, BUT A SWORD."

Plenty more where this came from too. Now leave you poor ignorant Bible illiterate babe before you get your feelings hurt.

Originally posted by jhill76
reply to post by The_Phantom

 

"He is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn over all creation."-Col. 1:15

He is the image of the invisible God, yes. He is what you are allowed to see of God. Jesus is the closest man will see of God, until the Earthly garments come off. Again, no man can see Gods face, only the angels in heaven - Matthew 18:10. The only person who saw his face was Enoch. Even then, his face had to be frozen for him to see it.

This will all be revealed in the End.

edit on 5-10-2011 by jhill76 because: (no reason given)

So your just going to ignore the word firstborn at Col. 1:15? Then jump to the the word image and create an idea from that one word out of context? Despite the fact that there is even a common saying in modern times, 'you are the spitting image of your father.' Ok...

"For though there be that are called gods, whether in heaven or in earth, (as there be gods many, and lords many,) But to us there is but one God, the Father of whom are all things, and we in him; and one Lord Jesus Christ, by whom are all things, and we by him. " -1 Corinthians 8:5,6

"And unto the angel of the church of the Laodiceans write; These things saith the Amen, the faithful and true witness, the beginning of the creation of God;" -Rev 3:14

That's twice that the Bible says that the first thing God created was his firstborn Son, Jesus. According to the Bible he is a creation by God. But certainly if 1 Corinthians says many in heaven can be called gods, I would say the firstborn Son of God fits that category as well...just not as the one and only true God, that is reserved for the Father only. They are numerically two different beings.

But like I said Jesus is an excellent example of love that believers and non-believers would do well to follow.

reply to post by The_Phantom


In heaven Jesus and God are seperate, on Earth Jesus was God indwelt.

reply to post by jhill76

Again, you are looking at death as a bad thing. After death you go back to your original state, spirit. Everyone will experience death, no way around it. Rather you die in your sleep or a horrible plane crash, it will happen.

Here's a link you may find interesting that might vindicate what you say.

www.whatthebiblesays.info...

It basically gives a more detailed event that happens after death. This may also explain why some people who have NDE's see heaven or hell, their spirits are knocked out of their bodies and according to their works they see a vision of where they are destined to be and then they change their ways. These may be the lucky ones, not everyone that experiences death gets to return to make a change. Thats my 2 cents worth anyway. Assuming that NDE's aren't total B.S..

Originally posted by jhill76
reply to post by The_Phantom

 

In heaven Jesus and God are seperate, on Earth Jesus was God indwelt.

We don't know that for sure. There are some passages in the bible that allude to Jesus actually being God, that the spirit within Jesus was God, the Holy Spirit himself. I believe that what the trinity is, is really 3 beings in one. The Book of Acts alludes that Jesus is God for he sits on his father's throne and the Holy Spirit flows from him and into us. Why would anyone other than the King sit on that throne? How does the Holy Spirit issue from Jesus and not the father? Because they are the one and the same.

John 1: "in the beginning there was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God". Jesus was the Word made flesh, the living Word as ascribed by John the Baptist. Could it be that Jesus being "God in the flesh" and also being named the living Word was all the one and same?. The jews (and ALL of the apostles) believed that God could not be constained in the vessel of a man, this is why the Pharisees and Sadducess called Jesus a blasphemer when he said "I AM, the truth, the way and the life", those 2 very powerful words "I AM" damned him in their eyes and from that moment they plotted to kill him. However, the jews also claimed that God was Almight and All powerful, omnipotent yet they do not believe God was strong enough to inhabit the vessel of man. So how do you get a being that is onipotent and can do whatever he desires but is unable to inhabit a man who knew no sin? Saying that God cannot inhabit the flesh if a man is basically calling the Almighty a liar because youre saying that he doesn't have the power to do whatever he wishes. Jesus may never have claimed to be God but he never really denied it either. As John said "he made the world, but was not of the world, he walked amoung men and they knew him not" (paraphrased).

reply to post by The_Phantom
I just bought a version of First and Second Corinthians today, that I thought seemed interesting. It may be fun to throw this out as another way to read those verses, 1 Corinthians 8:5 & 6

Granted that there are so-called gods, whether in the sky or on earth - as indeed there are many gods and many lords – but there is one God the Father, from whom all things come, and for whom we exist, and there is one Lord, Jesus the Anointed One, through whom all things exist, and through whom we live.

Nyland, Dr A (2010-08-09). 1 & 2 CORINTHIANS: The Source New Testament With Extensive Notes On Greek Word Meaning (p. 29).

reply to post by lonewolf19792000

Jesus was the Word made flesh. . .

It does not say that in the NT.
This is your interpretation, in turn based on a highly interpretive translation of the Greek into the English, ignoring Greek grammar and the actual meanings of the words themselves. This is the producers of Bible translations willfully mis-translating in exceptional cases in order to support accepted church doctrine, and therefore being able to sell their versions to the general church-going population who normally buy Bibles.

Could it be that Jesus being "God in the flesh" and also being. . .

There is not a Bible verse that says, "God in the flesh".
So what you are doing is making a speculation, then by repeating that made-up saying derived from that speculation, over and over, make it in your mind a fact, to in turn use it to launch into another level of speculation.

I believe that what the trinity is, is really 3 beings in one.

Of course the Trinity is a theory based not on anything biblical but on philosophy.

The Book of Acts alludes that Jesus is God for he sits on his father's throne. . .

Mathew 25:31 says that the Son of Man will sit on his glorious throne, meaning the Son of Man's throne.

. . .also being named the living Word. . .

That is something taken from speculation on an interpretive translation and then turned into a slogan, but not a Bible quote.

The jews (and ALL of the apostles) believed that God could not be constained in the vessel of a man. . .

The writers of the NT apparently agreed.

. . .this is why the Pharisees and Sadducess called Jesus a blasphemer when he said "I AM, the truth, the way and the life"

Jesus said that in a private conversation with his disciples.

. . .those 2 very powerful words "I AM" damned him in their eyes and from that moment they plotted to kill him.

In the story where the Jews pick up stones to kill Jesus, the "I am" is a deliberate mis-translation by the Bible producers, another example of this practice to make "exceptions" in the normal rules of translation in order to support accepted church doctrine.

So how do you get a being that is onipotent and can do whatever he desires but is unable to inhabit a man who knew no sin? Saying that God cannot inhabit the flesh if a man is basically calling the Almighty a liar because youre saying that he doesn't have the power to do whatever he wishes. Jesus may never have claimed to be God but he never really denied it either.

Hypothetical philosophical speculation while ignoring the clear biblical teaching which is the god that the pre-incarnate Jesus was, emptied himself of that god-nature in order to become a man through normal human child-birth, so as to be able to die. As long as he never returns to being a god, effectively, a god has given his life as ransom to break a god-made blood covenant of death.

reply to post by lonewolf19792000

This may also explain why some people who have NDE's see heaven or hell, their spirits are knocked out of their bodies and according to their works they see a vision of where they are destined to be and then they change their ways.

No man can go into hell and view it. Far as MAN can go, is the holding area for the souls. Even angels are not allowed down there.

reply to post by The_Phantom


As I said earlier:

As for Jesus he is different because he was not split down the middle as mankind was. He in himself is in a different category. Jesus started in heaven well before man was created. So searching in the bible about how man's spirit is, is mute because Jesus can't be included because he is not the same as man.

Saying the splitting image quote can't be used, because Jesus is not apart of THIS creation. As your quotes say, he was born/created way before man was.

In heaven he is separate, but down here on Earth when he was here, he was God indwelt.

reply to post by jhill76

No man can go into hell and view it. Far as MAN can go, is the holding area for the souls. Even angels are not allowed down there.

And this was God telling you this?

reply to post by jmdewey60


This is an order from Father, yes.

Originally posted by jhill76
reply to post by jmdewey60

 

This is an order from Father, yes.

You may want to clarify this bit, since it is not a sentence.

"Far as MAN can go, is the holding area for the souls."

Can you rephrase it so I know exactly what your claim is.

reply to post by jmdewey60


You don't view death and souls as I do, we went through this for almost two pages.