It looks like you're using an Ad Blocker.

Please white-list or disable AboveTopSecret.com in your ad-blocking tool.

Thank you.

 

Some features of ATS will be disabled while you continue to use an ad-blocker.

 

Many have come under the guise of love to deceive

page: 2
4
<< 1    3  4 >>

log in

join
share:

posted on Oct, 5 2011 @ 01:58 AM
link   

Originally posted by jmdewey60
reply to post by jhill76
 

Then please, tell me, what is the human body designed to do? I am talking about the human body in my posts back to you, that is all. Because the body dies, plain and simple.
A person is not a person without their body. People are a living body. This is how the Bible describes it. In the Hebrew it is the same word as a corpse. One is alive, and one is dead. A person is that living "corpse", as in: Body + Life = a person.
God created mankind to live forever, so there is no built-in provision for how to deal with a person when they die. They cease to be a real person. There is no spiritual existence of a person after death. There is probably something else which is like giving someone a hard drive a hundred years ago but no computer to run it with. A sort of memory of a person but no way to make any use of it.

edit on 5-10-2011 by jmdewey60 because: (no reason given)


So I'm "assuming" from this, you say that Jesus is not alive, since he died?




posted on Oct, 5 2011 @ 02:04 AM
link   
reply to post by jhill76
 

So I'm "assuming" from this, you say that Jesus is not alive, since he died?
You brought it up, explain it yourself.
It depends on what you believe.
I may believe one thing and you may believe something else.
I assume you are not a christian so I am not going to allow you to use my belief in Jesus to support your religion, whatever it is.
edit on 5-10-2011 by jmdewey60 because: (no reason given)



posted on Oct, 5 2011 @ 02:06 AM
link   
reply to post by jmdewey60
 


I am seriously wanting to know. I "think" you are talking about a person keeps living even after death, then yes I do very much believe that. I don't know if you do or not, because you haven't stated which one yet. But, the body does go away. I seriously don't understand how the body keeps on living?

I'm not trying to push an agenda with my questioning to you, if you feel that, we can surely take this to private message and discuss. I am really wanting to know your viewpoint, but you assume things about me, which are just not true.
edit on 5-10-2011 by jhill76 because: (no reason given)



posted on Oct, 5 2011 @ 02:14 AM
link   

Originally posted by jmdewey60
reply to post by jhill76
 

Then please, tell me, what is the human body designed to do? I am talking about the human body in my posts back to you, that is all. Because the body dies, plain and simple.
A person is not a person without their body. People are a living body. This is how the Bible describes it. In the Hebrew it is the same word as a corpse. One is alive, and one is dead. A person is that living "corpse", as in: Body + Life = a person.
God created mankind to live forever, so there is no built-in provision for how to deal with a person when they die. They cease to be a real person. There is no spiritual existence of a person after death. There is probably something else which is like giving someone a hard drive a hundred years ago but no computer to run it with. A sort of memory of a person but no way to make any use of it.

edit on 5-10-2011 by jmdewey60 because: (no reason given)


If you are using the Bible for this basis, then it does not mean that. As very clearly stated throughout all the bible.

Heb. 9:27 states And as it is appointed unto men once to die, but after this the judgment.

In Matthew Chapter 17 we have the account of Jesus going to a mountain with three of his disciples. On that mountain, the disciples got to see Jesus in his true glory. Something else happened on that mountain. Moses and Elijah appeared with Jesus. Elijah never died but Moses had been dead for hundreds of years. How could he have appeared on the Mount of Transfiguration if there was no life after death?

Paul says very clearly that as long as you are alive on planet earth in a physical body, you are absent from the Lord. But if you are absent from the body, then you are present with the Lord. How can you be absent from the body? There is only one way and that is by dying.



posted on Oct, 5 2011 @ 02:21 AM
link   
reply to post by jhill76
 
Why are you quoting the Bible to support your religion?



posted on Oct, 5 2011 @ 02:25 AM
link   

Originally posted by jmdewey60
reply to post by jhill76
 
Why are you quoting the Bible to support your religion?



You come into the thread and refute me at every turn, but when I try to engage in debate and see your understanding you turn away. How does this help in any way?

I can't say I follow a religion. But, I am a believer. Jesus is my Lord, and I trust in Father (Jehovah) to provide guidance and love. Oh, and I can confess that Jesus came in the flesh, died, and ascended into heaven.
edit on 5-10-2011 by jhill76 because: (no reason given)



posted on Oct, 5 2011 @ 02:32 AM
link   
reply to post by jhill76
 
I'm interested in discussing Christianity with fellow Christians and maybe some agnostics or atheists but not to support some other religion, whatever it is, I have no interest in it.

ETA:
Seems you edited your last post, so I will address your earlier post about "It does not say that".
Obviously I was referring to the OT since I was saying what the words are in Hebrew.
You are quoting something about people who Jesus saw who were historical characters from too long ago to be naturally alive without some intervention from God.
That happens and is the hope Jesus was giving people, that they will be raised from the dead.
I don't know if that was what Paul meant.
I have a way of dealing with difficult questions which means making my own translation so I will have to get with you on this, once I have it worked out.

edit on 5-10-2011 by jmdewey60 because: (no reason given)



posted on Oct, 5 2011 @ 09:19 AM
link   
reply to post by jhill76
 

You come into the thread and refute me at every turn. . .

I had to go through my older posts to see who I was apparently confusing you with.
I found out and it was someone else, which I sort of knew already after your last post.
I'm attacking your strange way of explaining the relationship between Jesus and God.
I am not singling you out for special treatment other than for that one reason.

ETA: I'm looking at 2 Corinthians 5, the first eight verses.
You find this word in the Greek which normally means, Tent, or tabernacle, such as the disciples saying they should make three tabernacles where they saw Jesus conversing with Moses and Elijah. In this section, in Paul, it is in a different form that is only found here. I was looking at it and it looked a lot like skein, to me. Wikipedia says, "A wound ball of yarn with a center pull strand". Another definition uses the word, coil, which makes me think of a poem or something saying, escape this earthly coil. (funny, as in, odd)
Here's one I found using Google:

What must I do to escape this mortal coil
And follow that will o’ the wisp to worlds beyond

edit on 5-10-2011 by jmdewey60 because: (no reason given)



posted on Oct, 5 2011 @ 09:46 PM
link   
Here is a priliminery finding on the verse you brought up, 2 Corinthians 5:8.
I am translating the first eight verses, and I just ran into a great big snag in your interpretation.
This is in verse four. We all live in this environment on earth, just to be alive.
This kills, what I would term, "the fake translation".
Anyway, this is why I was resisting you last night, that for me to answer a question is a big commitment and I do it if it is for a good reason. It burns up a lot of my time and energy, which I could be using for other things.
edit on 5-10-2011 by jmdewey60 because: (no reason given)



posted on Oct, 5 2011 @ 10:08 PM
link   

Originally posted by jmdewey60
Here is a priliminery finding on the verse you brought up, 2 Corinthians 5:8.
I am translating the first eight verses, and I just ran into a great big snag in your interpretation.
This is in verse four. We all live in this environment on earth, just to be alive.
This kills, what I would term, "the fake translation".
Anyway, this is why I was resisting you last night, that for me to answer a question is a big commitment and I do it if it is for a good reason. It burns up a lot of my time and energy, which I could be using for other things.
edit on 5-10-2011 by jmdewey60 because: (no reason given)


In the first eight verses Paul is saying we groan and lash out because we are in our earthly garments, the tebt, and can't wait to be rejoined with our heavenly garments. Even being spirit, you will still have an outer garment. Take for instance angels, they are in heavenly garments. But, spirits are just orbs of light. I used that verse to show we must die, the shedding of the earthly garments to get our other self so to speak.

As for Jesus he is different because he was not split down the middle as mankind was. He in himself is in a different category. Jesus started in heaven well before man was created. So searching in the bible about how man's spirit is, is mute because Jesus can't be included because he is not the same as man. If that makes sense.



posted on Oct, 5 2011 @ 10:11 PM
link   
reply to post by jhill76
 
See that's where you are wrong.
The tent is this environment we live in, on earth.
If we are not in this environment on earth, we would be dead.
The tent = body equation is fake.
That is what I was trying to get at.
Are you reading the Greek?



posted on Oct, 5 2011 @ 10:22 PM
link   

Originally posted by jmdewey60
reply to post by jhill76
 
See that's where you are wrong.
The tent is this environment we live in, on earth.
If we are not in this environment on earth, we would be dead.
The tent = body equation is fake.
That is what I was trying to get at.
Are you reading the Greek?



Your body would be dead, the earthly garments yes. I understand how you are thinking. You are saying if your body is dead there would be no more you. Your body is just a garment that you use to experince this creation. You as an entity are still there, you won't be just a memory but a living being. The first death is phyiscal. The shedding of the earthly garment. The second death is spiritual the killing of the soul. Thats when you ultimately ceist to exist, not when the body dies.



posted on Oct, 5 2011 @ 10:43 PM
link   
reply to post by jhill76
 

I'm just saying what I said.
This is what I ran into while researching to find the answer to your question, yesterday, which is something like: What do you think about 2 Corinthians 5:8. I don't think you asked it that specifically but made a reference to a verse which I assumed was that one.
Yesterday, my reply was, I don't think it means what you are saying it does.
So, since then, I have been looking at what it does say.
What it says is a word which means, tent. It has a different gender ascribed to it which changes the spelling, a spelling that is only found, twice, in the NT, and in that particular chapter. Earlier in this thread I was pointing out how the genders change the meaning in the verse about Jesus and God being one. The same thing is happening here, where it changes the meaning of the sentence by changing the word and to me what it is doing is it makes it a joint thing, just like in the "are one" verse I was just referring to, where the tent is a thing held jointly by us all. That is what the words indicate and the Greek is like that where one word can be spelled thirty different ways, according to the grammatical usage. That gives more specificity to it than the English translation indicates.

edit on 5-10-2011 by jmdewey60 because: (no reason given)



posted on Oct, 5 2011 @ 10:51 PM
link   
reply to post by jmdewey60
 


Now I see what you are saying. The tent of Earth and the earthly garments are one in the same. You can't have one without the other. If you live in this tent earth, you will have still a further tent, an earthly garment to live in while experiencing creation. Macro tent is the earth. Micro tent is the earthly body. It's all created from the same substance so to speak. Man was given a body from the ground. A piece of tent was given to him to live with too.



posted on Oct, 5 2011 @ 11:39 PM
link   
reply to post by jhill76
 


"I and the Father are one"

John 17:21-23 "That they all may be one; as thou, Father, art in me, and I in thee, that they also may be one in us: that the world may believe that thou hast sent me, And the glory which thou gavest me I have given them; that they may be one, even as we are one: I in them, and thou in me, that they may be made perfect in one; and that the world may know that thou hast sent me, and hast loved them, as thou hast loved me."

So by this logic the person sitting next to you in your congregation is literally you, and you are literally Jesus since he is one with you, and the person sitting next to you is also literally Jesus, and you are both God?

...Or perhaps it means what it says when it calls him the Son of God... "He is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn over all creation."-Col. 1:15

There is a saying, 'you are the spitting image of your father,' it doesn't mean that you are literally your father. (Also see Gen. 2:24)

But whether you believe in him or not, he is a great example of love, I think people should imitate him. As Gandhi said, "I like your Christ, I do not like your Christians, they are so unlike your Christ."



posted on Oct, 5 2011 @ 11:56 PM
link   
reply to post by The_Phantom
 




"He is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn over all creation."-Col. 1:15


He is the image of the invisible God, yes. He is what you are allowed to see of God. Jesus is the closest man will see of God, until the Earthly garments come off. Again, no man can see Gods face, only the angels in heaven - Matthew 18:10. The only person who saw his face was Enoch. Even then, his face had to be frozen for him to see it.

This will all be revealed in the End.
edit on 5-10-2011 by jhill76 because: (no reason given)



posted on Oct, 6 2011 @ 12:21 PM
link   
reply to post by jhill76
 
No I am not saying any of that. To repeat, again, All I am saying is that there is a big section, or paragraph that goes from verse one to verse eight, in chapter five of Second Corinthians. It starts out in verse one talking about a tent, then he brings it up again, in verse four. Paul is treating the entire section like one big, long, run-on sentence, so the main subject of this big sentence is, the tent. What I found out is that this is not individual tents.
Have you ever heard the expression, "under the same tent"? This is what Paul means. It is a collective tent. We all jointly inhabit this tent. As long as we are doing so, as long as this tent exists, as in, The Earth as We Know It, then this is how we live. But, we understand that if somehow this structure, the environment of the Earth that supports our life, was to cease to exist, we could still have another environment where we could go to and to live, which is in Heaven. How can we live in heaven, being the mortal and human and tainted by the world, sort of people? God is not going to do that to us.
Anyway, this is where I am at right now in my examination of this passage and I still need to work on it. I will let you know if I make some further progress on the subject. The main thing I was trying to get across is that you are probably looking at a Bible someone translated into English and you for some reason take that and further interpret it, and come up with a theory of what all this means, while all along, most likely, the translation you read is not giving you the right information to base your interpretation on, from which you based your theory. If you want to have a good theory, then my suggestion is to base on something good, like understanding exactly what the original text is saying.


edit on 6-10-2011 by jmdewey60 because: (no reason given)



posted on Oct, 6 2011 @ 12:28 PM
link   
reply to post by jmdewey60
 


But Paul says when we leave this tent we will be joined with our heavenly bodies in a place not made by man. Paul is addressing the saved ones here. He is saying after we leave Earth we are joined in the building not made by hands. Trust me I'm not looking at the English translation!

We get to live in heaven because we take on a heavenly garment, and we leave our earthly ones here.
edit on 6-10-2011 by jhill76 because: (no reason given)



posted on Oct, 6 2011 @ 12:32 PM
link   
Jesus is Lord. Whether he was Lord at conception, or became it, doesn't matter. Jesus is God, co-equal within the triune Godhead. He is also love, life, and truth, and on top of all that, a friend.



posted on Oct, 6 2011 @ 12:40 PM
link   
reply to post by jhill76
 

Trust me I'm not looking at the English translation!
Not only do I not trust you, I am on the opposite end of the scale. For one thing you are not a Christian so that seems not right to me, discussing Christian doctrines but not being a Christian tells me you are the enemy of Christianity which you want to destroy.
ETA: so if you are not looking at the Bible, and still discussing the verses in it, while claiming a special knowledge leads me to assume you are following Satan, or one of Satan's horde. If you know something in a legitimate way, you could explain how it is you come to this knowledge.
edit on 6-10-2011 by jmdewey60 because: (no reason given)



new topics

top topics



 
4
<< 1    3  4 >>

log in

join