The biggest reason for loss of faith is that it simply isn't needed anymore.

With all of our scientific and technological advances, we are able to scientifically prove and logically deduce reasons for things instead of having to chalk them up to a higher power.

Dear colbe,

As you know, I admire your faith and your faithfulness. I have several disconnected thoughts for you.

Michael Voris is a powerful and talented speaker. I have watched dozens of episodes of the Vortex. For my taste, there is not enough support, love and encouragement there. I do like the way he identifies flaws in the Church and calls for it to reform, he is very valuable in that. But I suppose there may be others, like me, who have been bruised and need healing and love. Again, that's just my taste.

I agree that the Tridentine is beautiful and is part of a legacy going back centuries. There is much to be gained by it, but I think assisting devoutly at any Mass approved by the Church is good and pleasing to God. I believe, but I could be wrong, that most places in the US have an Tridentine Mass within an hour's drive.

With respect,
Charles1952

It just dawned on me that I hadn't really responded to your idea that the Novus Ordo was a big faith killer. I don't know, maybe, but there were a lot of other things going on at the same time. American (and world) society was changing a lot in the 60's and 70's. Many things affected believers, I'm reluctant to say how much influence any one thing had.

I'm sorry TurkeyTots, I just don't understand your post.

If people call for food, isn't that evidence of a need for food? If they ask for water, is that not a need? People cry out for spiritual and mystical food everywhere. You can see it in the Middle East with Islam, China with it's underground churches, Africa with the inroads by Catholics and Evangelicals, even ATS with people looking to aliens, Wicca, various "paths," etc.

It appears that in this case its TurkeyTots contra mundum.

With all of our scientific and technological advances, we are able to scientifically prove and logically deduce reasons for things instead of having to chalk them up to a higher power.

Some things, yes, we always could. But I don't think you believe that science has answered the important questions.

What happens after death? What made the universe? Why can we think the way we do, when no other animal can? How do we explain miracles (that haven't been explained yet)? Where does the idea of "should" come from originally? And more.

Science can only deal with things it can see and measure. There is another world out there for you to explore, TurkeyTots, and I wish you well on your journey.

Originally posted by TurkeyTots
The biggest reason for loss of faith is that it simply isn't needed anymore.

With all of our scientific and technological advances, we are able to scientifically prove and logically deduce reasons for things instead of having to chalk them up to a higher power.

Wow you are really going to lump together earthquakes and tsunamis and eclipses with things like what happens after we die, how our species originated, how big the universe is and what if anything exists outside of the universe? Dude... We have figured out a FEW things, even the best scientists will tell you that we have BARELY SCRATCHED THE SURFACE, and you are ready to throw out God already? There is so much unexplained things out there, that it could even be said that perhaps God DOES cause Earthquakes etc. If so much was known about the cause of quakes, why can't they be predicted? The best scientist cannot even give you one hour of a warning, not even a minute to prepare! But according to you, "weve got it all figured out. No need for a god anymore". Freaking arrogant... Get real. The fact is nobody knows for sure. You can either have faith and believe or have a lack of faith and not believe. You just like everything spelled out for you but the world doesn't work that way... You have to look deep within yourself, and see what you truly feel. Yes, religion has been used ny decidedly evil people to control the masses. Ok, so evil exists. And if you were evil, or if you were Satan, wouldn't you attack and corrupt and subvert the church, tricking a lot of people into thinking that the whole religion must be wrong? The Bible even Predicts this... It seems you have been blinded by pride.. God not needed any more? Are you serious?-9

Originally posted by TurkeyTots
The biggest reason for loss of faith is that it simply isn't needed anymore.

With all of our scientific and technological advances, we are able to scientifically prove and logically deduce reasons for things instead of having to chalk them up to a higher power.

Turkey Tots,

I am not wanting to sound righteous or like Dana Carvey's Church Lady but I disagree
and here is why.

We will live forever! This life is a preparation for eternal life. Draw closer to God, pray
every day. God made us to know, to honor and most important to love Him. It's our
soul's desire, the most important desire. You won't be happy until you come close to
God. He made us to be with Him one day in Heaven. What a grand plan. Say
"yes" to God, it's our choice.

Originally posted by charles1952
Dear colbe,

It just dawned on me that I hadn't really responded to your idea that the Novus Ordo was a big faith killer. I don't know, maybe, but there were a lot of other things going on at the same time. American (and world) society was changing a lot in the 60's and 70's. Many things affected believers, I'm reluctant to say how much influence any one thing had.

Hello Charles,

It is your posts that are a help.

Something you said above made me think of a private revelation about the times since the
1960s, why the faith is at such a loss. Pointing this out to Revelation too and his
post. It IS more than the Novus Ordo Mass. Jesus explains. And...

If you ever wish to reference in one place the end times explained with much Scripture spoken of to confirm as you read along. Go to this link. www.godspeakswillyoulisten.org

The private revelation given Cletus and another messenger a few years back. When you click on the link, you'll see the latest message given in 2011. It sums up a lot in just one message. There is so much I learned in reading all of the messages. And the revelations aren't cut up by too many dates to separate them so easier reading.

The "narrow gate" is not to go too far one way or the other but centered, look to Jesus.
- - - - -

...In your country, the 1960's brought in a culture of sin and relativism. This
brought about a rejection of God and his commandments. This is the lie and the deception, which has caused the problems in your world and my church. It is the cry of Satan: I will not serve. You cannot blame the Second Vatican Council for the increase in the sins of the flesh: homosexuality, abortion, murder, and all the sins of your age. You cannot blame the Second Vatican Council for the decrease in vocations, lack of reverence and attendance at the Holy Mass. The blame is my people compromising with the world, rebelling against the Holy Father, and believing the lies, deception, and the words of Satan. The problems of today had their beginnings many years prior to the 1960's. This decade brought the problems into the open. Masonry, in all its diabolical forms, infiltrated my church many years prior to the Second Vatican Council. During those turbulent years, masons were elevated to positions of authority in my church. Those Masonic forces were unleashed from the pit of hell and caused the problems in your world today. My people, rejection of God establishes the reign of Satan in your midst. Read my word. All of these events were prophesied and are being fulfilled before your eyes. My word must be fulfilled. Satan is clever. He is much more intelligent than you. He is using Vatican II as a deceptive lie to hide the real cause for the division in my church. The real cause for the division is the pride of mankind, the rejection of God, and many in my church making compromises with Satan. He knows if the real truth was revealed, the church would be unified, and he would be defeated. This present and continuing purification is exposing the lies and deception of Satan. My church will be as I want it: humble, persecuted, and a light to the world. It will once again follow in my footsteps to Calvary, and to a glorious resurrection. To repeat, the Second Vatican Council is not the cause of the problems in my church. The cause is the pride of my people who compromise with the demon. Those who cause division and schism in my church do not listen or follow them. For heresy can occur from many different directions. Those who deny my church's teachings, whether labeled liberals or traditionalists, are promoting heresy. Pray for these souls. My people, The Holy Father is correcting these errors. If you
would follow his guidance, you will not fall into schism and division. He has clearly defined the substance of the Holy Mass and the true meaning of my church. Continue fighting the Holy Father and you are fighting against God. The day will come when a false anti-pope will try and lead my church. If you are in a state of rebellion against my church now, will you even recognize a false pope? Remember, my sheep hear my voice, and I know them and they follow me. Can you hear my voice if you are in rebellion, causing division in my church? You cannot if your pride is a stumbling block in your life to my graces. Repent of your sins and implore my mercy. These words apply to bishops, priests, religious, and lay people. No one is excluded. You are either with me or against me. You cannot be a servant in my kingdom and the kingdom of Satan with your pride at the same time. Repent today. Tomorrow will be too late. Judgment is already beginning in the house of God, and expanding to the ungodly. Do not sit on the fence any longer. You want my blessing. Be submissive to my church and its teaching, and I will bless you. If you refuse to listen to my warnings, you could be deceived..

Originally posted by charles1952
Dear colbe,
I agree that the Tridentine is beautiful and is part of a legacy going back centuries. There is much to be gained by it, but I think assisting devoutly at any Mass approved by the Church is good and pleasing to God.

The difference between the two masses, the Latin Mass is more reverent. Jesus explains
why the new Mass still pleases God. Our Lord meant what he said in John 6:54. One
day not far off, everyone will believe in the Real Presence.

- - - - -

GOD SPEAKS WILL YOU LISTEN

7/25/07

...Today in my church, many factions are questioning the authority of the Holy Father. I ask you: do you have the power to loose and bind? These words do not apply to you. If you are in rebellion, calumniating, or causing others to question the authority of my vicar, you are in rebellion against me. You will be held responsible for those you lead
astray, if you do not repent. By your words and actions, you are persecuting me. You are led by your own pride, not by my Holy Spirit. For I am meek and humble of heart. Are your actions, thoughts, and words leading my people to me or away from me? Beware, the serpent is sly and can lead you astray. If my pope was truly teaching false doctrine, my spirit would lead and purify my church. This schism over the validity of the mass must stop. It is a stumbling block and a serious offense to my sacred heart, my Mother's Immaculate heart, and to the Holy Trinity. For it is only my sacrifice which appeases my Father's justice. My sacrifice of the mass is a renewal daily of my atonement on Calvary. Who are you to stifle my spirit? If a validly ordained priest, speaks the words of consecration established by my church, I AM PRESENT. It is a valid consecration.
If you question the validity of my masses, after the Holy Father has explicitly guided you, are you any different than Martin Luther or any of the protestant reformers? Remember, Satan wants to destroy belief in my mass. He does not care which method he uses. By questioning the validity of the Novo Ordo Mass, you are causing people to leave my church and deny my presence in the Eucharist. You will be held responsible for all the souls, which you have caused to be led astray. I am a God of humility. It is my humility which has brought about your salvation. My desire is for all to be saved. I will go to whatever lengths, to save a soul. The loss of one soul to hell, causes much sorrow and grief in my sacred heart. For I told you, there is much joy over one sinner who repents. Who are you to judge the workings of my spirit? My people, the Tridentine Mass brings great honor and glory to my Father, myself, and the Holy Spirit. Please Ponder on this: There is much evil in your world. How do you know the Novo Order Mass, was not inspired by my spirit? I knew there would be sacrilegious communions, lack of reverence in my churches, and lack of belief in my presence in the Eucharist. But I will do anything for the salvation of souls. I will humiliate myself to great extremes to save my people. I will sacrifice my honor and glory to save my people and bring my presence to my people. What will you do for the salvation of souls? Since the introduction of the Novo Ordo Mass, many protestants and others have entered my church, who otherwise would not have. Many conversions and Eucharistic miracles have occurred with both rites of my mass. For the most important thing to me, is to share my presence and to save the souls of my people...

Posted at Yahoo Groups - Seers2 today.

A message to Louise Louise. God bless her, she was persecuted for the messages about judgment. In the New time, again, MO, in the Era of Peace. God's 7th Day, the Novus Ordo Mass will be gone.

~ ~ ~ ~ ~

Pertinent Past Via L


Archived Message via Louise
Crucial Warning for Priests!

April 10, 2005 / 11:15 p.m.


L. began to receive a message from Jesus; and after numerous and various prayers of testing,

Jesus spoke,


"My daughter, once again, tell all My priest sons to refuse My Blessed Sacrament to anyone who extends their hand! People must receive Me worthily (in the State of Grace) and on the tongue. No one, absolutely NO ONE but My priest or a deacon, shall handle My Sacred Body!

Again, I tell you priest sons: Replace those altar rails, NOW! The people MUST kneel to receive Me, their King and God.

No one enters the Sanctuary but My priests, deacons and altar BOYS! NO ONE! This ground is holy, and utmost respect MUST be shown!

Return MY HOUSE, the Tabernacle, to front and center. It is My House, NOT YOURS; and I demand respect.

There is to be NO idle chatter in My House of Prayer, but only prayer and your priests teaching My word.

Bring back modesty, NOW! Allow NO ONE to enter My House of Prayer unless he or she is properly dressed. And bring back proper head dress for both men and women.

There is to be NO joke telling from My Holy Sanctuary and NO clapping, either. This is NOT a stage show, but the reenactment of My love for you. It is the unbloody sacrifice - - a very serious part of your redemption. It is the birth of My great gift to you (the Eucharist) that all might have life, My life, within you. You are to eat My Bread and drink My Wine. It is Me!!! It is NOT a symbol; that Host, that Wine, IS ME!

You priests MUST bring respect and holiness into My House of Prayer and NOW! Tomorrow WILL be too late for many of you. Honor My words and do not change them and do not add to them. As I said it, so it must be. Do not try to improve My words, lest you receive eternal punishment. I am God, whereas you are My shepherds.

Many words and acts have been added to My Mass by men not of Me. Make My Mass holy and My House a House of Prayer.

Once again, I tell you, take and live your vows! I lived in poverty; so must you. I was celibate; you must be too. I was ever obedient to My Father, and you must be too.

Come follow Me, NOT the world, the flesh or the devil. Come back to Me all of you who have been led astray. Earn the love and respect of your flock. Do not let the people lead you, for it is you who are to lead My people. Most of you priests are not doing your job. Return to Me! Seek My lost sheep and carry them back to the flock, for there must be only one flock and one shepherd. If you (priests) love Me, you will follow Me, feed My sheep and bring glory to God."

"A message to Louise Louise."

So sorry, I meant to type the seer's last name. Louise Tomkiel.


colbe