Retaliation to occupy wall street being a theater of the absurd.

great thread. Consolidated, and to the point. its a great outline for those who are not sure what the occupy wall street protests are actually protesting.

I have to agree people should be protesting because of them things but you left out the morgage crisis that is the same population of NYC being homelesss since 2007. It isn't about these people seeing the same issue you can see its about so much more. I turn on tv and see these fake elections coming not a single one i want calling the shots. I do mean not a single one event ron paul seems sketchy to me. right now is the time for people to take to the streets. The people need to have there voice heard and politicians should wake up to see this is a goverment for the people and by the people. The backdoor deals need to end the war for profit needs to end because thats just stealing from the tax payer. If we dumped the amount of money in infastructure as we tossed in war over the last 10 years well im sure jobs wouldn't be a real problem

Originally posted by ThePumpertang
Isn't it time to start talking about what comes after capitalism.

The people propagating the system we have in place are the ones that stand to gain the most, we are tired.

Increase the monetary value of our labour, decrease the time we should work each week so we can do human stuff instead of this crummy wage slavery.

Isn't this the message?

Wall Street, The City, wherever it is, these concentrations of economic power are sucking the life out of the people, and corrupted, weak governments are unable to protect us.

Lets pick up our ball and go home, let them play their markets on their own, not with my hard work.

Why do YOU do it then? Why not refuse to work for less than you believe you are worth? Be the change you profess to desire.

reply to post by xxshadowfaxx


S&F- thanks for posting the response and thank you for putting a voice of reason out there to back all the (very necessary) anger and rage behind Occupy Wall Street.

Official Statement from Occupy Wall Street - this statement was voted on and approved by the general assembly of protesters at Liberty Square: Declaration of the Occupation of New York City

As we gather together in solidarity to express a feeling of mass injustice, we must not lose sight of what brought us together. We write so that all people who feel wronged by the corporate forces of the world can know that we are your allies.

As one people, united, we acknowledge the reality: that the future of the human race requires the cooperation of its members; that our system must protect our rights, and upon corruption of that system, it is up to the individuals to protect their own rights, and those of their neighbors; that a democratic government derives its just power from the people, but corporations do not seek consent to extract wealth from the people and the Earth; and that no true democracy is attainable when the process is determined by economic power. We come to you at a time when corporations, which place profit over people, self-interest over justice, and oppression over equality, run our governments. We have peaceably assembled here, as is our right, to let these facts be known.

They have taken our houses through an illegal foreclosure process, despite not having the original mortgage.

They have taken bailouts from taxpayers with impunity, and continue to give Executives exorbitant bonuses.

They have perpetuated inequality and discrimination in the workplace based on age, the color of one’s skin, sex, gender identity and sexual orientation.

They have poisoned the food supply through negligence, and undermined the farming system through monopolization.

They have profited off of the torture, confinement, and cruel treatment of countless nonhuman animals, and actively hide these practices.

They have continuously sought to strip employees of the right to negotiate for better pay and safer working conditions.

They have held students hostage with tens of thousands of dollars of debt on education, which is itself a human right.

They have consistently outsourced labor and used that outsourcing as leverage to cut workers’ healthcare and pay.

They have influenced the courts to achieve the same rights as people, with none of the culpability or responsibility.

They have spent millions of dollars on legal teams that look for ways to get them out of contracts in regards to health insurance.

They have sold our privacy as a commodity.

They have used the military and police force to prevent freedom of the press.

They have deliberately declined to recall faulty products endangering lives in pursuit of profit.

They determine economic policy, despite the catastrophic failures their policies have produced and continue to produce.

They have donated large sums of money to politicians supposed to be regulating them.

They continue to block alternate forms of energy to keep us dependent on oil.

They continue to block generic forms of medicine that could save people’s lives in order to protect investments that have already turned a substantive profit.

They have purposely covered up oil spills, accidents, faulty bookkeeping, and inactive ingredients in pursuit of profit.

They purposefully keep people misinformed and fearful through their control of the media.

They have accepted private contracts to murder prisoners even when presented with serious doubts about their guilt.

They have perpetuated colonialism at home and abroad.

They have participated in the torture and murder of innocent civilians overseas.

They continue to create weapons of mass destruction in order to receive government contracts.*

To the people of the world,

We, the New York City General Assembly occupying Wall Street in Liberty Square, urge you to assert your power.

Exercise your right to peaceably assemble; occupy public space; create a process to address the problems we face, and generate solutions accessible to everyone.

To all communities that take action and form groups in the spirit of direct democracy, we offer support, documentation, and all of the resources at our disposal.



If you can't understand this, then you deserve your faith!

Originally posted by Drew99GT

Originally posted by stereotype
the question keeps roaming through my mind, how or what will it take for ALL people to be disobedient in a civil manner?

When formerly upper middle class people lose their jobs, or become underemployed to the point of needing housing and food assistance. .

edit on 4-10-2011 by Drew99GT because: (no reason given)

Yeah when the people who used to call the unemployed lazy, and accused them of "sucking the country dry", are in the same boat as those they demonized, then finally they will get angry enough to become unruly
Figures

Originally posted by Shamatt

Originally posted by xxshadowfaxx
reply to post by eagleeye2

 

There is more than enough resources for 7 billion people on this planet. Look around, most of the planet has unused land. This could be used to supply people. Rather than raping the resources, they could be rationalized, and distributed to everyone. We have the resources to do this, if the rich would stop raping them.

What you need to remember is that it is the members of ATS, and everyone arround us who are the rich who are raping this planet. If you live in a house with electricity and clean running water you are richer than 70% of the worlds population. We are the problem. The top 1% certainly could contribute more and take less, and the wealth gap is worse not than ever, I agree. But it is us, the westerners, and to an increasing degree developing countries like China who are raping the planet. We are the rich people. We are to blame.

So you are claiming that having electricity and clean running water is the problem? I think the problem here is clear and it is ignorance. We are only the problem if we continue propagating such ignorance.

The solution is good health and education which is brought to you by electricity and clean running water, amongst other things. I don't believe in denying ignorance nor do I think we should wallow in it. Spend a little time educating yourself before making such foolishly blanket comments.

Hmmm, let's take a look back at history for a moment... What was the real issue that sparked the American revolution?

Yes, the british troops were here to fight the French and Native Americans (think about that last one) and protect Britain's interests in the colonies. That got expensive, so the crown started to levy taxes on the colonists. Unfortunately for the colonists, their biggest trade was in textiles (mostly hats) and tabacco and the only people they could trade with fairly locally were the French and the Spanish, the two main enemies of the crown. Trading with them was made illegal and trading wares all the way back to England was far far too expensive, (at a loss actually). So there was really no way to earn money, hence, the colonists could not pay the taxes that the crown levied on them for the troop's protection.

The British troops were not a professional army, in that they drew no paycheck. If not called to duty then they had to go find a place to live in the communities and earn their own money, so they began competing with the local colonists for those jobs. Young adult colonists found it extremely difficult to find a job if at all, because the soldiers would coerce many local business owners (sometimes by force) to hire them instead.

The soldiers also had a very hard time finding proper lodging. To help alleviate their burden, the crown called for quartering, in which if a colonist had more than one room in their home and a soldier presented himself and requested it, then the colonist would have to give up at least one of those rooms for that soldier to live in as long as he needs it, even if that meant displacing another family member from that room.

Now, some troops turned back to a life of petty crime. If the soldier was caught and found guilty (usually happened) then brutal punishments were met on the guilty soldier in public for the smallest of crime, such as stealing a loaf of bread. The Northern colonists, being highly religious people, were beyond perturbed by these public flayings and week long stockading with no food or water (unless the colonists took pity on them).

These are a few good examples of what lead up to the revolution, sure, but what really kicked it off? It was when the crown brought on the stamp tax to help pay for the war; A war in which not even most colonists wanted nor were allowed to participate in. This tax didn't affect the commoners. It didn't affect the local businesses for the most part. It affected printers and lawyers, who used paper products the most. The crown pissed off two groups of people you REALLY don't want to mess with. It was this that really got the ball rolling... media, communication, propoganda, and a legal language, framework, and reasoning to put it in. It fired up the colonies to take real action.

Looking at things today, there are some similarities between us and our ancestors, but I would argue that they had it much harder than we do today. I think that while protesting can be good, it will not go down the path of revolution. Why? Because the right buttons have not been pushed. We have inequities oozing out of just about every orafice of America's seams, but unless that ooze touches the media and the legal system (as it happened to our ancestors), I don't think any dramatic change will happen.

reply to post by xxshadowfaxx

I understand your point of view, and i strongly agree, i even would love to be there. But i also think gncnew got a good point. The rich are rich because they just playing the game well, which i think u gotta be unscrupulous to do it. All the points you make there are very valid, but we're barking to the wrong tree. I think the tree we should bark to is the system itself (monetary) (ex. Fed. Res.; White House..), and not the players.... Although is a step, a very well and big step which will wake up many of the sleepy ones, which is not "absurd" at all. I agree with both. ...Then again, If there wasn't any player there wouldn't be a system, so Wall Street is not a bad start.to begin with the retaliation

Just my opinion. May the protest continue.

Thanks. I'm new here, by the way...

Amen good thread. It touches the main point of the protest. Enough with ideologies and isims

There are many more reason to protest, I only touched on a few of the key issues. There are hundreds more reasons.

LAUGHING. MY. ASS. OFF.

I don't know where to start with this group of loons. I should go to wall street holding up a sign that says "Hippies, Hipsters, and Art Majors - GET LIVES"

The only reason these people don't have jobs is because they chose career paths that are so foreign and obscure that nobody wants to support them. Think about it, how does a hippy or anything of the like contribute to the economy in any way? All they do is complain and ask for the government to do something about it. If the government is owned by bankers, and the bankers were bailed out by the government because they were so poor, who really has the money here? These people think they have stumbled upon some type of esoteric knowledge and will lead the people to a new future. In reality, they have watched far to much V for Vendetta and listened to to much Rage Against the Machine. I don't care what anyone says, if you can't make it in America, you just aren't trying hard enough. There are thousands and thousands of job opportunities, just take a damn look. Oh boo hoo, you need to work hard to make ends meet, guess what that is?



A first world problem. People are dying from busted economies and sent to vultures in other countries while you whine for more money and options in your pitiful life that you have done nothing to better. People have been 'working to live' since the dawn of time. Did early man ask for a stimulus package when they needed to hunt for food? No. They got off of their lazy asses and did it. Communism is an oppressive and corrupt course of action, it leads to less options and a corrupt government. People work hard to see the fruits of their labors. The list of demands from OccupyWallstreet literally made me fall out of my chair laughing whilst at work today.

If people are so flustered by these corporations, STOP FEEDING THEM. delete your Facebook, stop buying the latest Apple products, and support local institutions. These corporations get all this profit from no one other than us. This sad and pitiful group is finding someone to blame when in the end, we as a society are to blame for our current misfortune. People should stop chasing this ghost '1%' and take on them selves. The more we can turn NEEDS back into WANTS and get rid of unnecessary luxuries the faster we will recover. Baiting a few NYPD men into arresting you by disrupting traffic then yelling 'police brutality' just makes you look like scum pulling straws. Come on.

reply to post by xxshadowfaxx


What the hell? Everything you listed has ALWAYS been the case..

I'm only in my mid 20s, and I can remember all of this happening before because it ALWAYS does. There are ALWAYS ups and downs. What about the early 90s?

Are people still breathing too?

reply to post by Droolmouth


It has always been the case you're right, thats the entire problem. People are finally sticking up for themselves. All these problems should have been solved years ago. Now they finally are. It's not just wall street that needs to be protested either, I am only going by it because its called occupy wall street. there are several other reasons to protest, the government, the environment, and wall street. People are not being treated right, the american dream has turned into the american nightmare. And its about damned time people woke up.

Originally posted by watcher3339

Originally posted by xxshadowfaxx
reply to post by eagleeye2

 

There is more than enough resources for 7 billion people on this planet. Look around, most of the planet has unused land. This could be used to supply people. Rather than raping the resources, they could be rationalized, and distributed to everyone. We have the resources to do this, if the rich would stop raping them.

If all the wealth in the world were evenly divided each person would get less than 10k.
Someone working a minimum wage job in the U.S is already making about 33 percent more than that.
Is that enough to be comfortable or raise a family in this country? No.
But people need to think through these demands to redistribute the wealth.
You'll more than likely be one of the ones giving up some.

So what about a system where money isn't needed? I find some of these replies disguisting, Nothing but keyboard warriors. You're all pretty switched on, We know whats wrong but when any group of people actually stand up and fight for your long lost freedoms you do nothing but complain.

A redistrubtion of wealth? No. Get rid of the monetary system altogether, find another incentive for people to work that isnt simply a buffer to slavery. I don't believe money is the issue, Greed and Power are.

Originally posted by ShogunAssassins

The antiprotest people.. To me is just another sign that ATS is nothing more then a right wing troll board these days.

And people, remember all these "Ron Paul" supporters who are against the protest.. Should tell you a bit about what they really think and support.

Yes it should. I have seen far too many anarchist and scrap it all comments coming from the protesters. I believe in the Constitution. I believe in opportunity. I believe in America. I can't even begin to imagine why you would have thought that Ron Paul supporters would have wanted anything at all to do with this protest which reeks of naivete and socialism.

Glad that you are at least able to understand that we aren't interested in your methods or your solutions, even if we agree with you that there is a problem.

reply to post by xxshadowfaxx


Yeah.. well the wisest man puts a bullet in his head. You ever hear that before?

There is never going to be a utopia and there will always be suffering.

Existence is just is. It exists, there is no magical fairy candyland with rainbows. Compared to all the world's history, we have as good as it's ever going get. I mean come on for billions of years it was survival for godsakes. What exactly are you accomplishing?

There doesn't have to be suffering. Suffering only exists because there is something wrong the system.

Dessecting the OWS List of Demands

Originally posted by Esotericizm

Originally posted by watcher3339

Originally posted by xxshadowfaxx
reply to post by eagleeye2

 

There is more than enough resources for 7 billion people on this planet. Look around, most of the planet has unused land. This could be used to supply people. Rather than raping the resources, they could be rationalized, and distributed to everyone. We have the resources to do this, if the rich would stop raping them.

If all the wealth in the world were evenly divided each person would get less than 10k.
Someone working a minimum wage job in the U.S is already making about 33 percent more than that.
Is that enough to be comfortable or raise a family in this country? No.
But people need to think through these demands to redistribute the wealth.
You'll more than likely be one of the ones giving up some.

So what about a system where money isn't needed? I find some of these replies disguisting, Nothing but keyboard warriors. You're all pretty switched on, We know whats wrong but when any group of people actually stand up and fight for your long lost freedoms you do nothing but complain.

A redistrubtion of wealth? No. Get rid of the monetary system altogether, find another incentive for people to work that isnt simply a buffer to slavery. I don't believe money is the issue, Greed and Power are.

I agree with this. Money is simply a system, at the end of the day, its only paper. There are ways to thrive without money. We are all just so used to money being the only way, we cannot see past it. Which is unfortunate. One day we will see past it, and money will become another failed system in history. I just hope that it doesn't destroy us first.