The great masonic conspiracy unveiled

Originally posted by Americanist

Originally posted by KSigMason
reply to post by Americanist

 

What man is a man who doesn't better the world? A man may be a part of a community, but he's still an indivudual. How did Pike set a trap?

Driven out of the US do you mean?Public scrutiny from the Morgan Affair had one effect on Masonic membership. The Civil War had an effect, but not so much on membership as it did with fraternal relations between jurisdictions.

edit on 5-10-2011 by KSigMason because: (no reason given)

Pike was rife with conflict as were other notorious members. These same individuals became symbol to policy and ritual.

Your initial question is answered as a quote of mine. See signature file.

The Morgan Affair:

William Morgan (1774–1826?) was a resident of Batavia, New York, whose disappearance and presumed murder in 1826 ignited a powerful movement against the Freemasons, a secret fraternal society that had become influential in the United States. After Morgan announced his intention to publish a book exposing Freemasonry's "secrets", he was arrested, kidnapped by Masons, and believed murdered.

en.wikipedia.org...(anti-Mason)


Affiliation to the upper echelon of usury is another telltale.

I ponder over how you are going to handle the fact, NONE of that ever happened?

Is that air you're breathing?

Ribbit

Originally posted by KSigMason
reply to post by Americanist

 

What other notorious members?

Your Wiki excerpt should say "believed to be kidnapped by Masons". There was a lot of things never proven but public scrutiny had convicted us whether it was a group of rogue Masons or not.

reply to post by JoshNorton

 

Why Josh I do believe you hit that on the nose.

reply to post by Americanist

 

His post was not one of question or uncertainty. He posted pertinent facts that proposed a major conflict to your assertions.

Yes actually you did say his disappearance had to do with secrets. Read your own wiki link:

After Morgan announced his intention to publish a book exposing Freemasonry's "secrets", he was arrested, kidnapped by Masons, and believed murdered.

So why kill Morgan when Duncan had already posted everything?

No dues are monetary.

What Mason was coerced into signing over his property? I know many Masons who have voluntarily left something in their will to the Lodge but most of the time its a surprise. Its not mandatory or "coerced". Freemasonry doesn't interfere in ones personal life.

reply to post by Americanist

 

Aleister Crowley? He was not an accepted member nor did he have any major impact on Masonry other than his name being used to defame us.

His biggest contribution was to the OTO, not a Masonic order.

No different than Amanda Knox! Peeps judged her based on the diabolical panderings of a lunatic prosecutor,

Ribbit

Originally posted by Americanist

Originally posted by network dude

Originally posted by Americanist

Originally posted by KSigMason
reply to post by Americanist

 

What man is a man who doesn't better the world? A man may be a part of a community, but he's still an indivudual. How did Pike set a trap?

Driven out of the US do you mean?Public scrutiny from the Morgan Affair had one effect on Masonic membership. The Civil War had an effect, but not so much on membership as it did with fraternal relations between jurisdictions.

edit on 5-10-2011 by KSigMason because: (no reason given)

Pike was rife with conflict as were other notorious members. These same individuals became symbol to policy and ritual.

Your initial question is answered as a quote of mine. See signature file.

The Morgan Affair:

William Morgan (1774–1826?) was a resident of Batavia, New York, whose disappearance and presumed murder in 1826 ignited a powerful movement against the Freemasons, a secret fraternal society that had become influential in the United States. After Morgan announced his intention to publish a book exposing Freemasonry's "secrets", he was arrested, kidnapped by Masons, and believed murdered.

en.wikipedia.org...(anti-Mason)


Affiliation to the upper echelon of usury is another telltale.

Are you aware of what was going on in America at this time? Most in the south owned slaves. Some in the north. This was a very different time. To call anyone from that time a racist, is about ignorant. People evolved. Amazingly enough, people are still evolving. Check into it. You might do well to jump on that bandwagon.

Are you aware what was going on in Peru 4000 years ago? It was a much different time, but that's just the issue here. You are defined by time since it is a static frame of reference and Universal Principle. No one gets a free pass being racist and/ or ignorant. I'm sure they're still around as it pertains to evolution.

What was goin on in Peru 4000 years ago?

Nothing!

You should take a moment to see if you can actually prove any written history?

Ribbit

reply to post by ButtUglyToad


You're completly off base in your analogy of me, first off i'm the foremost spokes person in the concept of non-duality because in heaven or in perfect harmony with love no such concept exists there's only good, so in my opinion the concept of good vs bad isn't as much opposite but they just ARE, as separate enitys in trajectory of each other.


Also i think your confusing perception with logic, logic in its simplest form would be all scientific based persay in that everything you say can be proven as the understanding of fact, but when you speak your understanding of how the law of the universe works and your understanding of love it's not fact its your perception of the situation that leads your mind in accord with your belief system, that's not saying it's wrong the one thing we agree on is love but it is true.


For instance the sky is blue that's logic, "Unconditional Love is possible" is a ideology that stems from right brain thinking and would fall under the category of one basing such on perception, again that's not to say it's wrong, people who fall under the category of having Extrasensory perception (ESP) have the abilty to perceive logic better then most but notice i said "perceive" logic, now are you just going to throw out the many logical studies of ESP and what it constitutes.

In terms of the Wizard of Oz (since you brought it up) you would be the Wizard who would take the most "logical" rout to get home by flying on the balloon based on your left brain thinking and not Dorthy who used imagination through the use of her perception and right brain thinking to definitely get home.



You need to start opening up your right brain thinking a little more trust me it wont hurt and when you find the perfect balance of right brain left brain thinking only then can you grasp the whole picture.


If you base everything on pure left brain logic then you become nothing more then a robot, so you can call me Pinocchio all you want but i'm going to start calling you Data from Star Trek.....


Ribbit

Originally posted by KSigMason
reply to post by Americanist

 

So you can't answer my questions?

You do realize that in Masonry most of us here would outrank him?

Two generations of Grand Masters approaching the century mark... Instead of answering the question I would refer you to the man and his life's work. Unfortunately, I spy "filler" when it comes to your actions, so do the digging yourself.


Once you're willing and able to contribute far-reaching information... Hit us up.

Originally posted by ButtUglyToad

Originally posted by Americanist

Originally posted by KSigMason
reply to post by Americanist

 

What man is a man who doesn't better the world? A man may be a part of a community, but he's still an indivudual. How did Pike set a trap?

Driven out of the US do you mean?Public scrutiny from the Morgan Affair had one effect on Masonic membership. The Civil War had an effect, but not so much on membership as it did with fraternal relations between jurisdictions.

edit on 5-10-2011 by KSigMason because: (no reason given)

Pike was rife with conflict as were other notorious members. These same individuals became symbol to policy and ritual.

Your initial question is answered as a quote of mine. See signature file.

The Morgan Affair:

William Morgan (1774–1826?) was a resident of Batavia, New York, whose disappearance and presumed murder in 1826 ignited a powerful movement against the Freemasons, a secret fraternal society that had become influential in the United States. After Morgan announced his intention to publish a book exposing Freemasonry's "secrets", he was arrested, kidnapped by Masons, and believed murdered.

en.wikipedia.org...(anti-Mason)


Affiliation to the upper echelon of usury is another telltale.

I ponder over how you are going to handle the fact, NONE of that ever happened?

Is that air you're breathing?

Ribbit

As I see things from your perspective I'm not really typing this. Does English happen to be your first language? Do you accumulate many doctor's notes? I ask as a possible factor to chemical imbalance...


Helps to know where everybody stands in communicating ideas.

reply to post by Americanist


I find it entirely disingenuous when Anti Masonic types bring the Morgan affair up as some wide ranging symbol proving the evil of Masonry.

A singular crime does not a pattern make.

Does the Inquisition prove that all Christians are Sadistic Murderers?

Do all the Muppets play drums? Nope, just Animal.

Originally posted by King Seesar
reply to post by ButtUglyToad

 

You're completly off base in your analogy of me, first off i'm the foremost spokes person in the concept of non-duality because in heaven or in perfect harmony with love no such concept exists there's only good, so in my opinion the concept of good vs bad isn't as much opposite but they just ARE, as separate enitys in trajectory of each other.


Also i think your confusing perception with logic, logic in its simplest form would be all scientific based persay in that everything you say can be proven as the understanding of fact, but when you speak your understanding of how the law of the universe works and your understanding of love it's not fact its your perception of the situation that leads your mind in accord with your belief system, that's not saying it's wrong the one thing we agree on is love but it is true.


For instance the sky is blue that's logic, "Unconditional Love is possible" is a ideology that stems from right brain thinking and would fall under the category of one basing such on perception, again that's not to say it's wrong, people who fall under the category of having Extrasensory perception (ESP) have the abilty to perceive logic better then most but notice i said "perceive" logic, now are you just going to throw out the many logical studies of ESP and what it constitutes.

In terms of the Wizard of Oz (since you brought it up) you would be the Wizard who would take the most "logical" rout to get home by flying on the balloon based on your left brain thinking and not Dorthy who used imagination through the use of her perception and right brain thinking to definitely get home.



You need to start opening up your right brain thinking a little more trust me it wont hurt and when you find the perfect balance of right brain left brain thinking only then can you grasp the whole picture.


If you base everything on pure left brain logic then you become nothing more then a robot, so you can call me Pinocchio all you want but i'm going to start calling you Data from Star Trek.....

Ribbit

edit on 6-10-2011 by King Seesar because: (no reason given)

First, the sky isn't blue! It has no color, yet you see blue with your eyes but if you used your I instead, you'd see that the supposed blue you see is a visible illusion, just like water being blue is a visible illusion. Water has ZERO color and the sky has ZERO color. You need to stop worry about which side of your brain is open and just open your ONE mind!

As to you thinking there's only good, your conceptual self clearly shows with that statement. What you have never figured out is Love isn't conceptual or perceptual based, it's based in the Physical. Love is not the opposite of Hate. Hate isn''t natural, it has to be learned/programmed into you. When you are born, you are born with Love within, it's this construct that screws it all up. So Unconditional Love isn't Left Brain nore Right Brain, it is One Mind, thus it is both sides!

Masons learn this, if they don't already know it and they live it.

Ribbit

reply to post by jimnuggits


McNugget, what's your background? You've joined the party late... We surpassed food and started with drinks.

reply to post by Americanist

I have been studying the history and evolution of the rituals, and I know the answers to the questions I proposed to you, but I wanted to see if you knew them. It appears you don't.

You're arguing against established historical fact and personal, firsthand experience.

reply to post by Americanist

Whats your background with Masonry? What makes you a SME?

EDIT: SME = subject matter expert.

Originally posted by KSigMason
reply to post by Americanist

 

I have been studying the history and evolution of the rituals, and I know the answers to the questions I proposed to you, but I wanted to see if you knew them. It appears you don't.

You're arguing against established historical fact and personal, firsthand experience.

reply to post by Americanist

 

Whats your background with Masonry? What makes you a SME?

EDIT: SME = subject matter expert.

edit on 6-10-2011 by KSigMason because: (no reason given)

You can call me out, but it appears as though you don't know what you don't know. It's ok, we're in the same boat. Speaking of boat... I'll confirm ritual, if you care to share it. As I mentioned earlier... Your attempts at rebuttal heavily outweigh your contribution to advancing knowledge.

reply to post by ButtUglyToad



It's not that i don't think there is bad or that hate is not real, i just don't believe it in the context of duality in terms of polar opposites of good and love but of a emotion that stands by it's self on its own platform.


If you want to get into sementics of the sky not being blue then we could take it to the next level and simply say what is color anyway, it dosen't exist its just a concept that is learned and why not take it a step further what are words nothing but a concept that is learned and so on and so on to the point you fall into the trap that the core of everything is nothingness and not love and that is the trap when dealing with sementics.

Logic dictates there are color, logic dictates there are words even if its logic of man its what we have.

In most cases perception is what we base our lifes and thoughts on it is also what we have, so in a sense logic in most cases equates perception because it took that perception to come to the logical conclusion of things, hence my thesis on ESP.

However Love is neither logic or perception it is emotion, the basic form of love comes not because of logic or perception but because of feeling, you don't say i love this person because logic told me to or you don't say i love that person because perception told me to, no you say i love this person because i feel it inside me.

Use the force Luke!!!!!!

Originally posted by Americanist

Originally posted by ButtUglyToad

Originally posted by Americanist

Originally posted by KSigMason
reply to post by Americanist

 

What man is a man who doesn't better the world? A man may be a part of a community, but he's still an indivudual. How did Pike set a trap?

Driven out of the US do you mean?Public scrutiny from the Morgan Affair had one effect on Masonic membership. The Civil War had an effect, but not so much on membership as it did with fraternal relations between jurisdictions.

edit on 5-10-2011 by KSigMason because: (no reason given)

Pike was rife with conflict as were other notorious members. These same individuals became symbol to policy and ritual.

Your initial question is answered as a quote of mine. See signature file.

The Morgan Affair:

William Morgan (1774–1826?) was a resident of Batavia, New York, whose disappearance and presumed murder in 1826 ignited a powerful movement against the Freemasons, a secret fraternal society that had become influential in the United States. After Morgan announced his intention to publish a book exposing Freemasonry's "secrets", he was arrested, kidnapped by Masons, and believed murdered.

en.wikipedia.org...(anti-Mason)


Affiliation to the upper echelon of usury is another telltale.

I ponder over how you are going to handle the fact, NONE of that ever happened?

Is that air you're breathing?

Ribbit

As I see things from your perspective I'm not really typing this. Does English happen to be your first language? Do you accumulate many doctor's notes? I ask as a possible factor to chemical imbalance...


Helps to know where everybody stands in communicating ideas.

edit on 6-10-2011 by Americanist because: (no reason given)

Is it you doing the typing? Depends on who you think you are.

The doctor you refer to, is in the same boat as you, the Boat of Delusion.

As to chemical imbalances, what dew you know about balance? You can't even get it right about the Order, so when you balance that one, then We can talk balance.

Ribbit

reply to post by Americanist

You're the one saying Crowley changed our ritual, I'm saying prove it. Quit saying and prove. The burden of proof lies with the accuser. I will wait.

Originally posted by King Seesar
reply to post by ButtUglyToad

 

It's not that i don't think there is bad or that hate is not real, i just don't believe it in the context of duality in terms of polar opposites of good and love but of a emotion that stands by it's self on its own platform.


If you want to get into sementics of the sky not being blue then we could take it to the next level and simply say what is color anyway, it dosen't exist its just a concept that is learned and why not take it a step further what are words nothing but a concept that is learned and so on and so on to the point you fall into the trap that the core of everything is nothingness and not love and that is the trap when dealing with sementics.

Logic dictates there are color, logic dictates there are words even if its logic of man its what we have.

In most cases perception is what we base our lifes and thoughts on it is also what we have, so in a sense logic in most cases equates perception because it took that perception to come to the logical conclusion of things, hence my thesis on ESP.

However Love is neither logic or perception it is emotion, the basic form of love comes not because of logic or perception but because of feeling, you don't say i love this person because logic told me to or you don't say i love that person because perception told me to, no you say i love this person because i feel it inside me.

Use the force Luke!!!!!!

edit on 6-10-2011 by King Seesar because: (no reason given)

Interesting comment:

"Logic dictates there are color"

Then please explain to me how you can use logic to get a blind person to see color in their mind, if they have never seen color before? If logic dictates there is color, then logic can prove it without the use of eyes.

Then you said:

"logic dictates there are words"

I would hope that you understand that computers don't use words, they use numbers, so to a computer, you're but a number and while sticks and stones may break their mother boards and processors, words will never hurt them because words dew not exist, they only exist in the figment of your imagination (mind), which is this contruct.

Love isn't an emotion and I know I pretty much stand alone on that but look at God/Source:

Does God/Source love WE? Yes!

Does God/Source hate WE? No!

Does God/Source laugh? No!

Does God/Source cry? No!

All God/Source does, via logic, is Love WE. Nothing more, nothing less!

So, where dew human emotions come from? Conceptually based Perceptual illusions!

So then, where does Love come from? Love is born in Logic!

God is Logical, mankind isn't!

Mason's are no different, they are founded in Logic, founded in Love, founded in God/Source.

Ribbit

These Threads always start off with good intentions, and I read them, hoping to learn something or get someone else's valid point of view. I am saddened to say that, in the main, they end up as a slagging match, normally involving personal insults.

A couple of Churchhill quotes spring to mind when reading anti Masonic postings:

"A fanatic is one who can’t change his mind and won’t change the subject."

and, one of my favourites:

"Once in a while you will stumble upon the truth but most of us manage to pick ourselves up and hurry along as if nothing had happened."

The last one as, many of you are given the truth, but you are so blinded by your predjudice that you hurry on by as if nothing has happened.

Originally posted by KSigMason
reply to post by Americanist

 

You're the one saying Crowley changed our ritual, I'm saying prove it. Quit saying and prove. The burden of proof lies with the accuser. I will wait.

You fail to realize this isn't a courtroom, so I'll impress upon you one last time. I'm no plaintiff... You're no defendant. Furthermore, unless you're going to offer up something stand aside. All you've done is run interference. I'm not a Mason. That burden doesn't exist for me.

Originally posted by TheLoneArcher
These Threads always start off with good intentions, and I read them, hoping to learn something or get someone else's valid point of view. I am saddened to say that, in the main, they end up as a slagging match, normally involving personal insults.

A couple of Churchhill quotes spring to mind when reading anti Masonic postings:

"A fanatic is one who can’t change his mind and won’t change the subject."

and, one of my favourites:

"Once in a while you will stumble upon the truth but most of us manage to pick ourselves up and hurry along as if nothing had happened."

The last one as, many of you are given the truth, but you are so blinded by your predjudice that you hurry on by as if nothing has happened.

Safe to say these threads go nowhere, and that they all read the same. It's a spectator sport where a tag team of Masons engage a lone soldier. The former methodically wears down the latter via utter boredom... Answering questions with questions until no one really bothers. Now that I mention it... Secret societies have this in common. I'm surprised you guys didn't stay in bed with the Vatican. At least there's familiarity with the pillow talk.

reply to post by Americanist


Yes they do end up in the realms of total boredom. Back and forth, getting nowhere.
As for in bed with the Vatican, no thank you. Regardless of what you think of us, we have not slaughtered hundreds of thousands in the name of our beliefs, or burned people at the stake for practicing witchcraft. We have not sacked cities, destroyed cultures or ravaged the countryside in the name of faith.

Dispite what you think of us, please do not compare us with the Vatican.

Where I live, even after nearly a thousand years, people still speak of the raping of the Langadoc and the destruction of the Cathars in the name of the Holy Roman Empire. Name one Masonic Lodge that has achieved that.

reply to post by ButtUglyToad

Mason's are no different, they are founded in Logic, founded in Love, founded in God/Source

People are no different, but secret societies make the common mistake of trying to steal the show. Amateurs really... You're welcome to adopt the quote in my signature file. I was able to help in the arrangement. And with that, dreams actually do come true.