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Bush Lied about his military service

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posted on Aug, 27 2004 @ 01:36 PM
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And not just his National Guard attendance. We have had a pretty vigorous spin cycle happening here over the last weeks about Slow witted Swift Boat veterans and their political hatchet job attempt backfiring.
Yet, we have even more damning evidence that is actually predicated on facts concerning GW Bush: he lied about being on active duty and in the Air Force during a campaign!!!!!

Putting aside the controversy over Bush's Air National Guard service (or dereliction of duty), there was another instance when Bush clearly did not speak truthfully about his military record. In 1978, Bush, while running for Congress in West Texas, produced campaign literature that claimed he had served in the US Air Force. According to a 1999 Associated Press report, Bush's congressional campaign ran a pullout ad in the Lubbock Avalanche-Journal that declared he had served "in the US Air Force and the Texas Air National Guard where he piloted the F-102 aircraft."

Bush lost that congressional race, but twenty-one years later, the AP questioned him about the ad. The news outlet had a good reason to do so. Bush had never served in the Air Force. He had only been in the Air National Guard. But when AP asked Bush if he had been justified in claiming service in the Air Force, Bush, then the governor of Texas and a presidential candidate, said, "I think so, yes. I was in the Air Force for over 600 days." Karen Hughes, his spokeswoman, maintained that when Bush attended flight school for the Air National Guard from 1968 to 1969 he was considered to be on active duty for the Air Force and that several times afterward he had been placed on alert, which also qualified as active duty for the Air Force. All told, she said, Bush had logged 607 days of training and alerts. "As an officer [in the Air National Guard]," she told the AP, "he was serving on active duty in the Air Force."

But this explanation was wrong. Says who? The Air Force. As the Associated Press reported, he Air Force says that Air National Guard members are considered 'guardsmen on active duty' while receiving pilot training. They are not, however, counted as members of the overall active-duty Air Force.

Anyone in the Air National Guard is always considered a guardsmen and not a member of the active-duty Air Force, according to an Air Force spokeswoman in the Pentagon. A National Guard member may be called to active duty for pilot training or another temporary assignment and receive active-duty pay at the time, but they remain Guard members.

The AP report said, "It may be a question of semantics." But today I checked with two spokespersons for the US Air Force, and each confirmed that an active-duty member of the Air National Guard is not considered a member of the US Air Force. "If a member of the Air National Guard is in pilot training," says Captain Cristin Lesperance of the US Air Force media relations office, "they would remain on the Guard books. They would be counted as Guard, not as an active-duty Air Force member."


The Nation

Now, while Kerry has been fully vetted several times over & still has to endure slander against his honorable service, will those same vocal critics step up and decry an AWOL Week End Warrior who tried to market himself as a legitimate Active Duty Air Force Pilot?




posted on Aug, 27 2004 @ 01:58 PM
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Bush supporters and Vets against Kerry will NOT address these issues, I have tried on several occasions to get them to, but they won't. They continue to stand by their "wartime" President and continue to accuse Kerry of being against Veterans just because he questioned the powers that were. They will not address the fact that Bush should have no right to send America's children to die for this highly questionable war, when he himself has avoided any combat, and had turned his back on the Vets in a far worse manner than they claim Kerry had. It just shows the invalidity of their argument.



posted on Aug, 27 2004 @ 02:06 PM
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So what? What about the Kerry discrepancies:

He claims he threw his medals onto the Capitol steps in protest when they were, in fact, decorations belonging to a another?

Where the hell was he really on Christmas Day in 1968?

Kerry has changed his story on the medals more than once. Personally, I could care less about those two things or the Bush matter. What matters is that currently, when asked direct questions about how he will be a better President, Kerry give a lot of words...but says nothing.



posted on Aug, 27 2004 @ 02:08 PM
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Originally posted by Bout Time
According to a 1999 Associated Press report, Bush's congressional campaign ran a pullout ad in the Lubbock Avalanche-Journal that declared he had served "in the US Air Force and the Texas Air National Guard where he piloted the F-102 aircraft."

"I think so, yes. I was in the Air Force for over 600 days."


I will address this. Bush wasn't trying to fool anyone with this statement. He served for two years on active duty as a guardsman with the US Air Force. It's a distinction that is lost on many, but it really does not mischaracterize his service, even though technically it is incorrect. But, the problem with trying to communicate with others is that the longer explanation only complicates the issue.

While on active duty, a guardsman is indistiquishable from any other Air Force personnel. The "lie" is hardly substantive and alters the fact of his active duty service not one whit.


[edit on 04/8/27 by GradyPhilpott]



posted on Aug, 27 2004 @ 02:10 PM
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Zed, has Bush said anything about how he will make this country better? And especially for those who make less than $200,000 a year, can't pay for daycare, can't afford gasoline and see at least 35% of their income (for most greatly reduced in the last 3 years) go to taxes. Oh and what he plans to do about the fact that everyday companies are forced to eliminate their health care coverage due to cost?

If he could come up with somehting like that we might listen.

Kerry has a plan, you can find it on his web page. I personally cannot wait for the debate when bush has to actually think on his own and at least tell us what he plans to do. Of course if you review the 2000 debates you will find little movement on his promises but at least it might give us hope.



posted on Aug, 27 2004 @ 02:12 PM
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Have to say on this one, I think it's a perfectly acceptable mistake on Bush's part. I have relatives who were drafted during Vietnam and then served in the National Guard, and they say the same thing.. for their first year or so they were in the active army for training purposes. I think it's splitting hairs to say that they weren't actually in the army, just "on active duty with the army while being a national guardsman" or some such.

-koji K.



posted on Aug, 27 2004 @ 02:13 PM
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.......but that's ideologically driven & we went over that already.
Ask anyone who's a Vet if they despise pretenders who falsely claim to have been in their branch of the military.

Zed, I agree with you completely about being sick of this nonsense, but you have to understand history: Al Gore took the high road, gave everyone the benefit of the doubt that was in the Republican camp, and thought that they could not possibly be that dishonest or would tear the country in two with a win at all costs strategy. We both know he was wrong about Rove Republicans; they start from that mental point.

It's not going to happen again.



posted on Aug, 27 2004 @ 02:14 PM
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Die! How dare you criticize our president! You are a traitor! You should be sent to Gauntanamo(sp?) Bay and tortured for going against Bush!

Wait, I like the truth. It is sad, the swifties are caught in a lie. Kerry has his record up on his website for those who want it. But still, the swifties, supported by republicans, lie and lie and lie, but then are caught. Then people ask about Bush's record. First Pentagon says they were "accidently" destroyed. Then Pentagon says some were saved, but not for public knowledge. Bush went AWOL after daddy bought his spot.



posted on Aug, 27 2004 @ 02:18 PM
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Originally posted by Bout Time
Zed, I agree with you completely about being sick of this nonsense, but you have to understand history...


We agree?


Just kidding. Yeah, far as I am concerned...Kerry did his service. I really got sick of it after seeing Clinton on the Daily Show saying how great Kerry was, and the he (Clinton) and Bush were pretty much cowards for not going. It WAS an interesting show so I highly recommend looking for re-runs if you missed it.



posted on Aug, 27 2004 @ 02:24 PM
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Originally posted by GradyPhilpott

I will address this. Bush wasn't trying to fool anyone with this statement.

Yes, he was, as evidenced by the statement, " I served in the Air Force & NG"

He served for two years on active duty as a guardsman with the US Air Force.

False. He was never classified as anything but a ANG. Second, his two years have not been documented. Third, even by his own admission, he deferred time for politcal campaign work

It's a distinction that is lost on many, but it really does not mischaracterize his service, even though technically it is incorrect. But, the problem with trying to communicate with others is that the longer explanation only complicates the issue.

While on active duty, a guardsman is indistiquishable from any other Air Force personnel. The "lie" is hardly substantive and alters the fact of his active duty service not one whit.

It's a willfull characterization of his service time to be much more than it was for political purposes. You'll get no argument from me about triviality; to the contrary, I would recommend that the Bush team stops trying to assainate Kerry's character & service; all it does is exactly what's outlined here - bring to light that Bush is woefully full up on short comings and the only one trying to paint himself to be more than he was

[edit on 04/8/27 by GradyPhilpott]



posted on Aug, 27 2004 @ 03:10 PM
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Originally posted by GradyPhilpott
I will address this. Bush wasn't trying to fool anyone with this statement.


Originally posted by Bout Time
Yes, he was, as evidenced by the statement, " I served in the Air Force & NG"

The assertion that he was trying to fool someone by stating he was in the Air Force is patently false, he was on active duty, on an Air Force Base, several to be exact:


Source
Bush joined in May 1968. He went through six weeks of basic training — a full-time job — at Lackland Air Force Base in San Antonio, Tex. Then he underwent 53 weeks of flight training — again, full time — at Moody Air Force Base in Valdosta, Ga. Then he underwent 21 weeks of fighter interceptor training — full time — at Ellington Air Force Base in Houston. Counting other, shorter, postings in between, by the end of his training period Bush had served two years on active duty.


Originally posted by GradyPhilpott
He served for two years on active duty as a guardsman with the US Air Force.


Originally posted by Bout Time
False. He was never classified as anything but a ANG. Second, his two years have not been documented. Third, even by his own admission, he deferred time for politcal campaign work

Wrong again, you don’t “fake” pilot training on any level, and you sure don’t bore holes in the sky with an F-102 if you haven’t been fully trained, evaluated, and in current flight status, period.


Source
The controversy over Bush's service centers on what his critics call "the period in question," that is, the time from May 1972 until May 1973. What is not mentioned as often is that that period was in fact Bush's fifth year in the Guard, one that followed four years of often intense service.


Originally posted by GradyPhilpott
It's a distinction that is lost on many, but it really does not mischaracterize his service, even though technically it is incorrect. But, the problem with trying to communicate with others is that the longer explanation only complicates the issue.

While on active duty, a guardsman is indistiquishable from any other Air Force personnel. The "lie" is hardly substantive and alters the fact of his active duty service not one whit.


Originally posted by Bout Time
It's a willfull characterization of his service time to be much more than it was for political purposes. You'll get no argument from me about triviality; to the contrary, I would recommend that the Bush team stops trying to assainate Kerry's character & service; all it does is exactly what's outlined here - bring to light that Bush is woefully full up on short comings and the only one trying to paint himself to be more than he was

BT, I served eight years in the U.S. Navy, wiping noses, and powdering butts, (that would be Navalese for a Corpsman attached to the Marines… sorry Grady
), and anyone who was deployed with me on active service was a Squid, or a Jarhead as far as I was concerned, that applied to full time active duty, active reserve, drilling reserve, and a few civilians that were “out camping” with us. I’m sure Grady, and anyone else who’s done time will tell you, the only time your status is mentioned, is when they are going home, and you’re not… John Kerry went home early.

Source.

Note: excessive quotes to maintain context, and disparity of thought.



posted on Aug, 28 2004 @ 10:48 AM
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Originally posted by Bout Time
The AP report said, "It may be a question of semantics." But today I checked with two spokespersons for the US Air Force, and each confirmed that an active-duty member of the Air National Guard is not considered a member of the US Air Force. "If a member of the Air National Guard is in pilot training," says Captain Cristin Lesperance of the US Air Force media relations office, "they would remain on the Guard books. They would be counted as Guard, not as an active-duty Air Force member."


Why not say... Bush was wrong, but it was a long time ago. Or, yes Bush exaggerated his contribution, but it was a long time ago. Or more to the point, we give Bush a pass on all BS but not Mr. Kerry.

Just say it. Free yourselves. God is watching.


PS -

Originally posted by Mirthful Me
The assertion that he was trying to fool someone by stating he was in the Air Force is patently false, he was on active duty, on an Air Force Base, several to be exact:


But can anyone proved he showed up to any of them?


Bush is a tried and convicted joke. Was a man of limited to non existant conviction, besides love of the drink. Remains a man questionable convictions beside duty and loyalty to $audi Arabia and re-relection efforts. Yet, he's defended with abject indiscretion for his own indiscretions by those that seek only to tarnish Kerry for crimes of perception (in the accusers eyes only).

Mind you no convictions. Nothing concrete.

Oh, and Teresa is "a loose cannon."


Yes, but has she killed a man like Laura Bush?



posted on Aug, 28 2004 @ 11:04 AM
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For anybody that wants to learn about the truth about the swift boat allegations is call truth VS truth is a break down analysis them.

But occurs the bush followers don't really want to know the true.



swiftvets.eriposte.com...



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