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Let's clear up a few things about Truth

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posted on Oct, 3 2011 @ 03:03 AM
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reply to post by rwfresh
 


You forgot the best and most important and the most obvious thing about truth.
Truth lives forever, being the reality of that which is and what happened to what and who is.
So the truth is alive if it lives forever. Jesus Christ is the truth.

Which is why the Bible is indestructible.




posted on Oct, 3 2011 @ 03:11 AM
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Originally posted by rwfresh

Originally posted by steveknows


Reads like you're trying to sell God and keep people from the truth to me. And that's the truth


How can someone keep you from something that they don't have the ability to keep you from? Each individual keeps themselves from the truth by dishonesty. Then they collectively blame each other to remain willfully ignorant.


It's called false information!

If you want to go to rome, and you ask me for directions i have to power to keep you from Rome or at least delay you by supplying false information.

If you need to go left, i send you right. And if more people have these intentions (supplying false information) you may not even get there at all.

So when is someone 'dishonest'? When they don't believe what your saying?



posted on Oct, 3 2011 @ 03:18 AM
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Originally posted by rwfresh
reply to post by ignorant_ape
 


How can anyone prove Truth to you? Admit it's impossible.




It is not impossible to prove truth to me... It just takes... 100% scientific proof,obtained using the scientific method...

It has been proven to me that the truth is the earth moves around the earth... it has been proven to me where babies come from...Well.. I have proven that one myself.


So you are more than welcome...Anyone is more than welcome to prove to me, that Truth is god..... Because I don't think that is true. Considering how may different versions we have of God and how we all argue over which is the real one.... Not to mention, there is no scientific proof that God even exists....

So you can prove it to me.... I just ask that you use the scientific method

edit on 3-10-2011 by gimme_some_truth because: (no reason given)



posted on Oct, 3 2011 @ 03:32 AM
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reply to post by rwfresh
 


If not 'common sense' then your interpretation of the word 'truth' seems quite vague to me. If you are simply arguing that 'the map is not the territory' then I will be in agreement with you....but by that same notion all experience is nothing more than a 3-D map put together by our brain using it's best guess due to the information it has gathered from the electrical impulses of our sense organs....

Inside our brain is a 3-D map of the entire universe as we know it and ever could know it....and inside the projected image which exists inside our heads that we call reality, we sit, a part of this projected universe....and inside the head of the 'you' that is inside this universe is another map of that universe projected inside it's head....and inside that universe is yet another you, with another universe projected inside that head...into infinity!

.....Wait..
..I think I just created a logical parodox that threatens to destroy the entire universe.....That's what I get for trying to be philosophical while I'm sleepy!

Sorry about potentially imploding the universe



posted on Oct, 3 2011 @ 07:43 AM
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reply to post by Required01
 


Ha, you are the number one source of false information for yourself. You do understand that right?

An honest man cannot be deceived. That doesn't mean people aren't deceived or don't deceive themselves.

In your scenario, a person who is truly honest and aware of truth would understand the false information when he heard it. Because the person giving the false information is being dishonest. The honest man having recognized the deceit in himself is equipped to recognize it in others. Whether their intent is to deceive or they are just plain wrong.



posted on Oct, 3 2011 @ 09:21 AM
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Originally posted by gimme_some_truth

Originally posted by rwfresh
reply to post by ignorant_ape
 


How can anyone prove Truth to you? Admit it's impossible.




It is not impossible to prove truth to me... It just takes... 100% scientific proof,obtained using the scientific method...

It has been proven to me that the truth is the earth moves around the earth... it has been proven to me where babies come from...Well.. I have proven that one myself.


So you are more than welcome...Anyone is more than welcome to prove to me, that Truth is god..... Because I don't think that is true. Considering how may different versions we have of God and how we all argue over which is the real one.... Not to mention, there is no scientific proof that God even exists....

So you can prove it to me.... I just ask that you use the scientific method

edit on 3-10-2011 by gimme_some_truth because: (no reason given)


What is your area of study? It's nice to pretend that a layman can easily experience the truth expressed in a white paper on theoretical quantum physics.. But unless both of us have a deep understanding of the nomenclature we can't really expect to share a deeper reality/Truth using that nomenclature.

And so too with any "spiritual" or religious nomenclature. It's nice to pretend that your average Christian or Buddhist has somehow absorbed the 1000's of years of wisdom expressed through the living nomenclature after a few years of weekend bible study.. but unless they are unusually honest they likely haven't.

That said, if you can prove Math to me i will give it a shot.

Try to accept that my use of the word God is different then yours. Let go of any defensiveness you might have over the word. God and Truth and Reality are all the same thing. None of them are an old bearded guy in the sky.

The nature of Truth is this.. The subject is the one who must accept it. All knowable and experiencable Truth is already in and around you. This is how you "know" truth, by accepting your experience of it as opposed to denying it. It is pre-existant. "I" cannot prove Truth to you. No one can. You accept Truth. No one can make anyone be honest about what is Real.



posted on Oct, 3 2011 @ 10:00 AM
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Figuratively this is a charming thought, though I think, if taken literally it might be to absolutist. For me, this truth is more compelling when approached by understanding it as the "more" honest person and a "more" intelligent person and "more" open to reality. I don't know as we CAN understand absolutes literally. I think we have figurative truth when we reach these levels of honesty. Maybe.


Unless we are Truth ourselves.. fully identified with it, we would never know. So it's mostly speculation on my part as i am not completely honest. Which is revealed daily by my longing for Truth. But i say in honesty, Absolute Truth is a thing by many names which is, in my nomenclature, Reality itself. Something few people live in, if any in Time. In Reality, Truth is all that exists.


An honest man may tell lies he thinks to be truthful. He is a deceived man. Knowing we are deceived if by nothing more than our own senses and neural /chemical composition, allows us the opportunity to enter into concentrated self introspection and the road of increased honesty. This man I think also will see lies everywhere with out paranoia. Or little paranoia.


It's my understanding that the neural/chemical response is just that.. a response to the experience of Truth or Denial of it. A direct experience or acceptance of Truth is what triggers the response. I don't think our experience has to reside in the response, although i agree that it can be helpful when stuck in the association of a non-real self, ego etc.

At the heart of it, the only thing that is Real is Truth. Whatever we associate with that is not Truth will fade away. It is a projection or hologram or delusion. We are not a response to Truth. I am not being condescending. I hope it doesn't come across like that. Just want to give my experience and belief in an honest way.



posted on Oct, 3 2011 @ 10:05 AM
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reply to post by bhornbuckle75
 


"all experience is nothing more than a 3-D map put together by our brain using it's best guess due to the information it has gathered from the electrical impulses of our sense organs"

Do you believe that is the sum of what you are? I think that is what a lot of people think and believe. But it is delusional. There is a True self which is Truth itself. And the 3-D map and brain is a by-product of it. If your brain is destroyed Truth remains. And you experience this Truth right now, although we all deny it.

I know you are looking for a practical application or an understanding. But it's not the nature of Truth to be applied or proven. So you are right.. what i am saying could amount to vague descriptions of something unbelievable, unprovable.



posted on Oct, 3 2011 @ 10:34 AM
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reply to post by rwfresh
 


I think you completely missed the point of my last comment. I was in essence agreeing with you...I said 'The map is not the territory' remember? My whole point was that the 3-D representation we call reality is nothing more than a guess...it's not truth.



posted on Oct, 3 2011 @ 01:33 PM
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Originally posted by bhornbuckle75
reply to post by rwfresh
 


I think you completely missed the point of my last comment. I was in essence agreeing with you...I said 'The map is not the territory' remember? My whole point was that the 3-D representation we call reality is nothing more than a guess...it's not truth.


Yeah sorry, i caught most of it, agreed and then moved on to potentially discussing actual Reality as opposed to our delusional reflection of it. But yeah i agree with what you are saying, didn't intend to discount it.



posted on Oct, 5 2011 @ 07:19 AM
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Originally posted by rwfresh
reply to post by Required01
 

In your scenario, a person who is truly honest and aware of truth would understand the false information when he heard it. Because the person giving the false information is being dishonest. The honest man having recognized the deceit in himself is equipped to recognize it in others. Whether their intent is to deceive or they are just plain wrong.


Are you actually believing what you are writing? Seriously?

So a 'honest' man (that does not exist in 2011) would know that when in a country he has never been before, in a location in that country not knowing where, asks a person directions he's never met before is telling the truth or not? Please stop eating space cake.



posted on Oct, 5 2011 @ 07:29 AM
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Originally posted by supine

Originally posted by rwfresh


1 day of honesty is equal to 4 years of university and 1 year of ATS.



Currently I am job seeking. I want to put this on my resume. Do you think prospective employers will take this as the truth?


Oh don't I wish.


"Holy crap! This guy was on ATS! Hire him now for $20 an hour!"



posted on Oct, 5 2011 @ 08:38 AM
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Originally posted by Required01

Originally posted by rwfresh
reply to post by Required01
 

In your scenario, a person who is truly honest and aware of truth would understand the false information when he heard it. Because the person giving the false information is being dishonest. The honest man having recognized the deceit in himself is equipped to recognize it in others. Whether their intent is to deceive or they are just plain wrong.


Are you actually believing what you are writing? Seriously?

So a 'honest' man (that does not exist in 2011) would know that when in a country he has never been before, in a location in that country not knowing where, asks a person directions he's never met before is telling the truth or not? Please stop eating space cake.


Do i believe it? I know it. Have you traveled outside of your native country? Start by being honest about what you don't know. I am telling you, and you may not be able to hear it, that yes - that is how it works. You believe that the only way to determine if someone is telling a lie is by trial and error? Understand that knowing is faith in action. And faith is not belief and not owned by Jesus or religion. It is a real thing directly correlated to honesty and knowledge. What can be known.

You can argue with me and get mad and scream i am eating "space cake". But you will not convince me of what is untrue. Just try being honest and see how things go. It will be hard but there is nothing more rewarding. People do not have power over your knowledge so don't give it to them because it's a lie. What you can know is yours.



posted on Oct, 5 2011 @ 08:39 AM
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Originally posted by Leg1on

Originally posted by supine

Originally posted by rwfresh


1 day of honesty is equal to 4 years of university and 1 year of ATS.



Currently I am job seeking. I want to put this on my resume. Do you think prospective employers will take this as the truth?


Oh don't I wish.


"Holy crap! This guy was on ATS! Hire him now for $20 an hour!"


Works for the guys who own ATS.



posted on Oct, 6 2011 @ 12:43 AM
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Originally posted by rwfresh

Originally posted by Required01

Originally posted by rwfresh
reply to post by Required01
 

In your scenario, a person who is truly honest and aware of truth would understand the false information when he heard it. Because the person giving the false information is being dishonest. The honest man having recognized the deceit in himself is equipped to recognize it in others. Whether their intent is to deceive or they are just plain wrong.


Are you actually believing what you are writing? Seriously?

So a 'honest' man (that does not exist in 2011) would know that when in a country he has never been before, in a location in that country not knowing where, asks a person directions he's never met before is telling the truth or not? Please stop eating space cake.


Do i believe it? I know it. Have you traveled outside of your native country? Start by being honest about what you don't know. I am telling you, and you may not be able to hear it, that yes - that is how it works. You believe that the only way to determine if someone is telling a lie is by trial and error? Understand that knowing is faith in action. And faith is not belief and not owned by Jesus or religion. It is a real thing directly correlated to honesty and knowledge. What can be known.

You can argue with me and get mad and scream i am eating "space cake". But you will not convince me of what is untrue. Just try being honest and see how things go. It will be hard but there is nothing more rewarding. People do not have power over your knowledge so don't give it to them because it's a lie. What you can know is yours.


Yeah i travel a lot, what's you point?

Your last paragraph just shows me that your not 'wise' but simply stubborn and cocky. What you claim is no matter what people tell you (give info), don't believ them. Is that really your message?

Retrink what your saying here.



posted on Oct, 6 2011 @ 01:11 AM
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the first thought i had was the seen from a few good men "you want the truth... you cant handle the truth" the second thought is:
for the truth is; all written words are by man, and man lies, cheats and steals, for his own good, will, and power over an other. do i believe in the bible yes not just one version, for there are many. one word can have many meanings, and if you do not know the word and context of the word you can and will be deceived. The truth is do I believe in one religion NO they are all corrupt self severing self pleasing entity as put here:Object (philosophy) Ontology, the study of being, existence and entities; Zionist( Mormon ) entity...ect is there a real true church , no not in the world to day, if you take all and made one then ??? still would not know if that would be a true church.
Truth is: we are at the end of times, the sings are all there, it could be tomorrow or an other 100 years, for that is but a blink of an eye.



posted on Oct, 6 2011 @ 10:34 AM
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reply to post by Required01
 


"Yeah i travel a lot, what's you point?

Your last paragraph just shows me that your not 'wise' but simply stubborn and cocky. What you claim is no matter what people tell you (give info), don't believ them. Is that really your message?

Retrink what your saying here. "

Hey I'm not here putting you down or trying to prop myself off. Sorry if it came off that way.

I am in no way telling you to not believe people. I am telling you that what you believe comes from you. Not other people. You are deciding what is true and what is not true. Dishonesty is a filter on a person's processing ability.

Part of what you are saying could be true. Don't believe lies. And root them out of YOURSELF first. Find the lies you tell to yourself and be honest about them.. because if you lie to yourself you are likely to believe lies from others.

I am not judging you and saying you are a liar and i am on high up here dishing you out the Truth. I am sharing what i believe is True. And that is, lying to yourself and others impedes your ability to discern the Truth.

I am also implying the Truth is a real characteristic which exists in all information. If i tell you a lie about what street you are on, the truth is that i am lying. If you know how to discern the truth because you are vigilant in being honest with yourself you will be able to discern the truth in my lie. That is how it works. Have you ever noticed how it is hard to lie to some people? And that the best liars are usually considered deluded? If you are dishonest you can completely lose your ability to discern the Truth and as a result disconnect from Reality.



posted on Oct, 6 2011 @ 10:47 AM
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reply to post by rwfresh
 


The truth is what you are willing to admit to yourself when you are alone.
Some people however live in denial so actually that doesnt work.

Nevermind



posted on Oct, 6 2011 @ 06:55 PM
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reply to post by Walkswithfist
 



That about sums it up!



posted on Oct, 6 2011 @ 07:35 PM
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reply to post by rwfresh
 


Sorry. Guess I am a little slow here. For me, at least, Truth, capital T, has been turned upside down, and that is directly related to technology--which by the way, can accomplish some very good things, too. Maybe I am just too stupid t grasp what you are saying. I accept that, for I think that a lot of what is written on this site is about saying "I'm smarter and better than you--ha ha". But for the purposes of what we are discussing here, I would simply like to clarify the Bible's standards of faith, and though I do not seek to say that the bible is the only Truth, as I feel it has been subtracted from and added to, as the political landscape demanded or required to spout it's particular TRUTH, This is that Book's definition of faith: to believe in what does not appear



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