What Is The Coherent Message and Who Is Leading "Occupy Wallstreet"?!

Originally posted by Fractured.Facade

Originally posted by TheOneElectric

Think of this like a flock of birds, or school of fish. Is there generally a leader? No, those creatures work in a weird way. I may explain it incorrectly, but you will understand what I am getting at. Flocks of birds and schools of fish have no leader or leaders.

Are you being serious?

This flock has no visible leaders because they are all ANONYMOUS Cowards.

Yes, you can quote me on that everywhere.

I agree. Someone started this idea and out of fear refuses to lead. After a while with no leadership this thing will get quashed in the interest of "national security". Watch and see.

I don't really want to bring up Bill O'Reilly in all of this, but it has to be done. Check out this video I found on his site while looking for more reasons to dislike him, it tries to find out why people are "Occupying Wallstreet" but it seems to me like it fails miserably.

video.foxnews.com...

They walked up to the nerdiest, craziest, dumbest, youngest, most hippie-like and most communist-sounding people involved just to make everyone look like idiots.

reply to post by whyamIhere


you will not get your money back. a message to the wise. GET YOUR MONEY OUT OF THE BIG BANKS. ESPECIALLY BANK OF AMERICA. Run do not walk to the bank if you want your money. the FDIC has 1 year to pay you for the money you loose. IT IS STARTING, run now.

reply to post by cluckerspud


left gatekeepers. left hand of the establishment.

Do not listen to the MSM on this topic. They are in the Govt's back pocket and they will use the MSM to squash this. I saw the same bit (where the older female reporter was immersed in the group), and when I heard those words come out of her mouth, I initially thought to myself "this woman is obviously a moron and needs to open her eyes, how can she say the message is unclear?" The, after further deliberation, it became apparent to me that:
1. The only way the majority of the population (US and worldwide) is going to hear about this is via MSM.
2. This resource will be used to discredit the movement and portray the occupiers as young, spoiled, rich kids with nothing better to do than complain about the govt.
This is just how I see it...

Seems like they are protesting in the wrong place, we already know corporations and banks are greedy, the government is supposed to represent us and not them, they should occupy congress

Originally posted by narwahl

Originally posted by ThirdEyeofHorus

Originally posted by links234
reply to post by ThirdEyeofHorus

 

Is there a reason why we should be opposed to that?

Well, you just answered my question.

www.earstohear.net...

www.uhuh.com...
www.uhuh.com...

edit on 3-10-2011 by ThirdEyeofHorus because: (no reason given)

LOL
Young republican and Goldwater girls Hillary Clinton was a "leninist" in her forming years?
I am certain it's true.
NWO will come any day now, any day now, seriously, soon, not much longer...

Nar, surely you jest? NWO has been here a long time, you just didn't see it yet. When will you? It's hidden in plain view.

Funny, even the leftists here know the NWO is coming to get them. They just have an opposing worldview.

Left? Right? Democrat? Republican? WTF people?

Its all bull. All of it. Its meant to divide us and keep us off balance. it sets us at each others throats while TPTB laugh all the way to the bank. Wake up. Please. Join the movement and see for yourselves. Stop parroting second and third hand report. Get out of your house and stop being so damn paranoid.

Originally posted by neo96
the wall street message?

kill all those evil rich folk and protest them instead of the people who are responsbile for all the woes

the us federal government no no ats readers wall street is evil and the government is looking out for them.

or if you will the same message of communism and marxism and socialism.

"i want my free crap" yes ats readers wall street is to blame not themselves nor their government

edit on 2-10-2011 by neo96 because: (no reason given)

Well said!!! Couldn't be any closer to the truth.

I don't understand why otherwise (usually) intelligent people are AGAINST being profitable.

"Those Rich Aholes"... my father is a small business owner. He'd be rich in the definition of these clowns, but he is far from 'rich' - it costs a lot to keep a business going. What the government doesn't suck away in profits, the rest goes to payroll (you know - that job that keeps you alive and fed) and toward putting out fires such as computer viruses and any other problem that may arise (my company just got a virus that costs us $40,000 in new computers and software!!!).

Do these protesters have any idea how the economy works? It is the ahole 'rich' folk (small business owners who really aren't that rich) who SHARE their profit in a moral way by hiring your dumb @ss- so you can EARN your way! If the government didn't put so much pressure on small businesses with taxes and regulations and other bs, then they would be free to reinvest their money into furthering the company and... maybe even give YOU a raise.

Don't wanna work for someone else? Okay... go start your own business to sell your trade. See how easy it is and how the gov't has a hurdle waiting for you at every step. Only then will you see that it is the GOVERNMENT THAT IS THE REAL PROBLEM.

I bet half of those protestors don't even have a friggen job. To protest profit is the most assanine thing ever. Yes, we've been had, but not by profit! (And Profit and Greed are not interchangeable words, as most of you believe). If the government wasn't so corrupt and in bed with those handful (in comparison to normal Americans) of corrupt large company leaders, then NONE OF THIS WOULD HAVE HAPPENED.

It takes a corrupt government, first and foremost, in order to get into the position we are in. IT IS NOT GREEDY TO WANT TO PROFIT OFF OF YOUR OWN LABOR!!! It's not greedy to keep the profits of your own labor either! If the corrupt government would just butt out, then Americans would be free to engage in MUTUAL business dealings with one another. If two people mutually engage in a business deal, and both profit from it, then how the HELL is that greedy? It only becomes greed when truth and morals are taken out of the equation - which is exactly what happened when our corrupt government entered into corrupt 'business dealings' in order to absorb most of the true and honest profits that regular, hard-working Americans had created through truthful and moral dealings.

More regulations from a corrupt government is not going to solve anything- in fact it is at the heart of what the problem is. So stop asking for more regulations - they stand in the way of FREEDOM. Are you not capable of regulating yourself?

I just wish these people would think for themselves so that they may actually KNOW who the real enemy is. I'd bet that 99% of those people out there protesting profit will go home to their comfy warm houses (probably mom or dad's) with electricity and xbox and TEEVEE. Oh the horrors of being a profitable nation!

Well enjoy it while it lasts because 'profit' is going out the door quickly, and when these protestors get what they really THINK they want, then they'll see that they were fighting against the wrong 'thing' all along.

I'm certainly not happy with what has happened to our nation, but really people - if you want your children to enjoy an ounce of freedom and some opportunity - WAKE UP and PAY ATTENTION. To profit, to SUCEED, is not bad!!! Anyone who tells you it is is probably looking to steal it from you - sound familiar? Pay attention. It is the corrupt government that has to be protested - in all areas. Not just the economy - the stupid war on drugs, the ridiculous 'fast and furious' schemes, the entitlement programs. All of these things eat a nation away from the inside. Fight the true enemy is all I ask, because right now all you are fighting is the very thing your grandparents spilled blood to protect and to pass on to you. Know what it is and understand what you want before you 'protest'.

WHO is leading Occupy Wall Street is not the question.
The proper question is WHAT is leading Occupy Wall Street.

Anger.
Faceless, nameless, and undetainable.
It is within everyone who is protesting. It is their constant companion.

Fed up and angry, people are being led by their emotions.
Anger needs no leader and will not rest until it is satisfied.

What the world's governments and banking cartels have done has caused Anger to come knocking at each person's door. Awakening them from their slumber.

The banks and the governments have only themselves to blame for Anger coming to town.

“We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalien­able rights, that among these are life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness. That to secure these rights, governments are instituted among men, deriving their just powers from the consent of the gov­erned.”

Anyone recognize that phrase? Marx? Stalin? Hmmmmm. Foundingfreakinfathers maybe?
I feel like I am beating my head slowly against a stone wall here. This is not about policy, political party, civilk rights or the environment. No one needs to be preached to about economics or marxist theory. This is happening spontaneously and collectively across demographic lines because we are feeling, as a species, that something is very, very wrong. Think Watership Down. Think Logan's Run..... It's visceral, internal, almost instinctive and animal. We know, in our guts, that something is about to happen and we are attempting to circumvent it. He are trying to understand what it is as we ACT. Discussions in the planning circles are not concerned with semantic variations or argument wins and loses. No stars. No flags. No kudos. Its real and it is happening on a basic, survival level.

Who will survive this shift? Those that perceive and ACT on their instincts and intuition, not those that hunker down and point from darked rooms. Stop analyzing and get your asses out in the streets. God people. I am losing all respect for ATS folks these days. I've been a member since 2008, a lurker since inception.

This is the event we have been bitching about for almost a decade. It's the war we wanted, the war we egged on. It's the culmination of our information battle. WE helped create this. We should have enough sense not to strangle it with armchair analysis. We all have a lot to lose. Honestly, everyone is going to lose everything anyway. Fear doesn't serve us now. Do you think any of you are safe if this doesn't work? Where are you gonna hide when they trace your ISP? Safety is only in numbers. Join something. Support something. Or die alone.

I gotta get the hell outta here. It just pisses me off.

Good luck heroes.

reply to post by Afterthought


YES!!!!!! Thats it!!!!!

Originally posted by EspyderMan

Originally posted by Fractured.Facade

Originally posted by TheOneElectric

Think of this like a flock of birds, or school of fish. Is there generally a leader? No, those creatures work in a weird way. I may explain it incorrectly, but you will understand what I am getting at. Flocks of birds and schools of fish have no leader or leaders.

Are you being serious?

This flock has no visible leaders because they are all ANONYMOUS Cowards.

Yes, you can quote me on that everywhere.

I agree. Someone started this idea and out of fear refuses to lead. After a while with no leadership this thing will get quashed in the interest of "national security". Watch and see.

I think your view is extremely jaded. I like the leader-less tactic. It's ingenius. It has been working effectively for YEARS (it's called Peer to Peer networking, or more commonly, Bit Torrent). The Goal of bitorrent is to get -insert torrent-. You don't need a central Server to host (or in Occupy Wall Street's case, Lead) the torrents when you all have the same goal. Hence, you don't need a leader to achieve the same goal.
Same idea, different implementations.

Also, being leaderless is an extremly effective tool at rooting out potential usupers or "spy's". Any person (or node on a Bittorrent Network) watching but not taking part in - or Stepping out and Leading (or handing out data like crazy on a BT Network) are instant red flags! The "Hive Mind" (behind both concepts) work because everyone *should* be on an even keel - anybody not conforming to the hive probably has some ulterior motive at play....and this has been proven true countless times on Bit Torrent networks. If you don't believe me, ask yourself why BT is the most popular peer 2 peer network and has continued to survive despite the Legions of Lawyers and corporations trying to kill it.

No, Occupy Wallstreet has power because they are leaderless - because they share the same concepts and goals. I for one hope they do not elect a leader - because ultimately this person will have some ulterior motive.

reply to post by Fractured.Facade


Actually...

It's because a leader isn't necessary when everyone agrees on the same principles. It's how true democracy works, and that's what they are fighting for. A real democracy, where people really have a say.

Not this go-vote-once-every-four-years-for-the-lesser-of-two-evils bull.

I'm so tired of people talking crap when THEY are the cowards who won't get off their ### and actually do something about the problems in the world.

Originally posted by Fractured.Facade

Originally posted by ThirdEyeofHorus
In fact, having no obvious leader helps them evade responsibility. No one has applied for permits and such.

www.maggiesnotebook.com...

No permits greatly improves the chances of violent clashes between protesters and authorities as well.

One of their biggest achievments so far; expressing their 1st Amendment rights.

Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press; or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the Government for a redress of grievances.

reply to post by nihonjindesu08


Actually a leaderless movement like this is doomed to fail.

It can be exploited by anyone, or "hijacked" into something else.

Most importantly, without leadership the crowds are more of a threat to themselves than to anyone else.

Nothing good will come of this... Nothing,

In my opinion.

Whenever scientists genetically alter and breed animals under controlled conditions, the geneticists themselves are acting as the mechanism of evolution. When breeding happens in nature, the process in control is natural selection...

What does this have to do with the protests? Well as was mentioned on the first page, the generation that comprises most of the protesters is the online generation. They are not used to leadership, but of something greater...They are used to following the collective consciousness of the world.

To me these protests will evolve into something if they are given time enough. I have made a couple of other posts regarding this topic if you really want my "solution." But for now we are in a transitional stage, the simple goal of which is to "last."

No one is leading the movement here. Its a diverse crowd of Libertarians, Republicans, Democrats, Anarchists, Socialists, Communists, Hippies, etc.

We're all angry about corporate America buying out Washington and the special treatment Wall Street has gotten from the federal government. The demonstrations are also about ending the aid to Israel and also preaching anti war messages.

Its a bunch of different people with different ideological backgrounds but all coming together to protest One enemy: Corporate America.

reply to post by TheOneElectric


I believe you stated the situation with great eloquence. I grew up (became aware) in the late 60's and early 70's and I have experienced, first hand, how this kind of thing can morph into something much greater than the whole.

Originally posted by whyamIhere
reply to post by cluckerspud

 

Add: The coherent message is....We want our money back.

edit on 2-10-2011 by whyamIhere because: pre 98 bubba kush

Add to that: We want our Rights, futures, childrens futures, planets future and our lives/peace/prosperity back!!!