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France, U.K. Have Differing Motives For Intervening In Libya

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posted on Oct, 2 2011 @ 12:49 PM
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I came across this article in Forbes the other night while reading some Libya-related news. It's part of a larger series available at stratfor.com Special Series: Europe's Libya Intervention I recommend the whole series.

Here are some highlights from the Forbes-featured piece.


Paris’ and London’s interests in waging war on Libya are not the same, and Libya carries different weight with each. For the United Kingdom, Libya offers a promise of energy exploitation. It is not a country with which London has a strong client-patron relationship at the moment, but one could develop if Moammar Gadhafi were removed from power. For France, Tripoli already is a significant energy exporter and arms customer. Paris’ interest in intervening is also about intra-European politics.


Libya's Energy and Arms Links to Europe:


img.abovetopsecret.com...


France also is reasserting its role as the most militarily capable European power. This has become particularly important because of developments in the European Union over the past 12 months. Ever since the eurozone sovereign debt crisis began in December 2009 with the Greek economic imbroglio, Germany has sought to use the power of its purse to reshape EU institutions to its own liking. These are the same institutions France painstakingly designed throughout and immediately after the Cold War. They were intended to magnify French political power in Europe and later offer Berlin incentives that would lock united Germany into Europe in a way that also benefited Paris.


Paris is seen as the military might of Europe? Who knew?


The intervention in Libya therefore is a way to reassert to Europe, but particularly to Germany, that France still leads the Continent on foreign and military affairs. It is a message that says if Europe intends to be taken seriously as a global power, it will need French military power.

France’s close coordination with the United Kingdom also is an attempt to further develop the military alliance between London and Paris formalized on Nov. 2, 2010, as a counter to Germany’s overwhelming economic and political power in the European Union. In asserting its strength, Paris may cause Berlin to become more assertive in its own right. With the very act of opposing the Franco-British consensus on Libya, Berlin already has shown a level of assertiveness and foreign policy independence not seen in some time. In a sense, France and the United Kingdom are replaying their 19th century roles of colonial European powers looking to project power and protect interests outside the European continent, while Berlin remains landlocked behind the Skagerrak and concentrates on building a Mitteleuropa.



And as for England?


London has another significant interest, namely, energy. British energy major BP has no production in Libya, although it agreed with Tripoli to drill onshore and offshore wells under a $1 billion deal signed in 2007. The negotiations on these concessions were drawn out but were finalized after the Scottish government decided to release convicted Lockerbie bomber Abdel Baset al-Megrahi on humanitarian grounds in August 2009. He was expected to die of prostate cancer within months of his release but presumably is still alive in Tripoli. The Labour government in power at the time came under heavy criticism for al-Megrahi’s release.

British media speculated, not entirely unfairly, that the decision represented an effort to kick-start BP’s production in Libya and smooth relations between London and Tripoli. BP announced in 2009 that it planned to invest $20 billion in Libyan oil production over the next 20 years.


img.abovetopsecret.com...




www.forbes.com...
edit on 2-10-2011 by ARealandTrueAmerican because: (no reason given)



edit on 2-10-2011 by ARealandTrueAmerican because: trying to get image to embed

edit on 2-10-2011 by ARealandTrueAmerican because: (no reason given)




posted on Oct, 2 2011 @ 02:22 PM
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Hmmm, having some problems embedding those images...



posted on Oct, 2 2011 @ 11:08 PM
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posted on Oct, 2 2011 @ 11:09 PM
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So no one can tell me why my pics dont embed?
edit on 2-10-2011 by ARealandTrueAmerican because: (no reason given)



posted on Oct, 2 2011 @ 11:11 PM
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posted on Oct, 2 2011 @ 11:14 PM
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posted on Oct, 2 2011 @ 11:15 PM
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Originally posted by ARealandTrueAmerican

Paris is seen as the military might of Europe? Who knew?



Actually Paris is a city, not a country. It is the capitol of France.
And yeah, many Americans still sort of lagging behind on their propaganda are incedibly unconscious of the might France and some other countries actually have. Sometimes it is interesting to look into things, and check whether the current mantras the MSM and government are feeding out are really true! (and that goes for anyone in, in any country)



posted on Oct, 2 2011 @ 11:17 PM
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Originally posted by Bluesma

Originally posted by ARealandTrueAmerican

Paris is seen as the military might of Europe? Who knew?



Actually Paris is a city, not a country. It is the capitol of France.


Yes, Just like "Washington" is used to refer to American power.

And, yes, I am one of those Americans who had no idea France was the military power of Europe.



posted on Oct, 2 2011 @ 11:27 PM
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reply to post by MissCoyote
 



posted on Oct, 2 2011 @ 11:28 PM
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posted on Oct, 2 2011 @ 11:28 PM
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posted on Oct, 2 2011 @ 11:29 PM
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m



posted on Oct, 2 2011 @ 11:29 PM
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posted on Oct, 2 2011 @ 11:29 PM
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posted on Oct, 2 2011 @ 11:29 PM
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post removed for serious violation of ATS Terms & Conditions



posted on Oct, 2 2011 @ 11:37 PM
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That's pretty common. The "France is a bunch of pussies" thing is very popular!

Having seen them on a state of weakness in WW2 started it, and then the Bush administration pushed it forward again when France didn't take aprt in their very questionable invasions.

But if people really stopped to think-
If France was such a powerless country, with such a meaningless military force,

WHY would the government be SO pissed off that it didn't join in and help???
To start the huge French bashing movement, had to mean they had something useful to offer?

While people were renaming their french fries (which aren't even from France, but Belgium) and pouring fine wines on the ground, and spitting obscenities about the french,
Were German sausages being thrown on the ground too? Was Schnitzel being renamed freeditzel?
Were gallons of maple syrup being dumped, and hockey being protested?
Were the All Blacks protested? Mutton from New Zealand protested?

.....not to speak of the many countries that weren't even invited to the party, so nobody noticed their absence.
So it always struck me as a very obvious giveaway that their huge reaction was incongruous with the claim that they are very weak. I always wondered why more people didn't notice that contradiction.



posted on Oct, 2 2011 @ 11:38 PM
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reply to post by Bluesma
 


That's really a tiny, tiny pieve of the article. Care to comment on the rest of it? Like Frances arms trade with Gadaffi?



posted on Oct, 2 2011 @ 11:41 PM
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off-topic post removed to prevent thread-drift


 



posted on Oct, 2 2011 @ 11:43 PM
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Well, lets see, I uploaded the images to my account, then put them in the 'image' embded text, and they didnt appear.

So, whats the problem?



posted on Oct, 3 2011 @ 01:09 AM
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Originally posted by ARealandTrueAmerican
reply to post by Bluesma
 


That's really a tiny, tiny pieve of the article. Care to comment on the rest of it? Like Frances arms trade with Gadaffi?


Yes, LOL, I have been irritated by a slew of comments about France on other threads, so perhaps I had some built up things to say, sorry.


The french government has been in bed with Gaddaffi for quite a while, and it has provoked a lot of criticism from the french people. His visit not too long ago really made a lot of people mad. So helping the rebels take over actually is beneficial for many reasons- they can continue to do business with Libya, while internally, they gained much more favor by the french public, being seen as rescuers of oppressed people (rather than supporting a tyrant). If Sarkozy wants a chance at re-election, he needed to erase the photos of him shaking hands with Gaddaffi from the peoples minds!

Sarkozy is also concerned with showing the world some of the military might they have, which rubs against the traidtional french values a bit though....they tend to think it best to be under estimated in all things. Hiding your valuables, hiding your collector car, pretending to have less, and be less, is usually the french way. Because they believe (and I partly share this thought) that showing it off invites others to be jealous, to be envious, and attract trouble. If someone attacks you, not aware of what you have up your sleeve, then they are un prepared for your response and the element of surprise works in your favor.

So, though the current administration has many concerns- the intent to make known their might and reinforce their position of military power in Europe is the one that is now attracting a negative view by the french public, and making Sarkozy's re-election look more doubtful. The socialists have a good chance of winning next and I wonder how they are going to deal with the situation in Libya?



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