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UK parliament to debate referendum on quitting EU

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posted on Oct, 3 2011 @ 09:16 AM
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reply to post by thoughtsfull
 


Yes, a strong, proud, caring and independant nation and union democratically governed and ethically financed within a like minded Commonwealth is something to aspire to.

Alas.....




posted on Oct, 3 2011 @ 09:37 AM
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reply to post by Freeborn
 


The alas part is true enough, the sad part is I feel we could easily achieve that goal, and yet we end up tied to hip of other nations, or following in their shadow when we could be working with the Commonwealth nations to built it into a real family.

Although to be honest those at the top would need a brain transplant and an injection of morals and fairness to see the merit of such plans



posted on Oct, 3 2011 @ 09:50 AM
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reply to post by thoughtsfull
 


We first need to address our own problems and put our own house in order.

As I'm sure you're aware I believe abolishiing the party political system and radical reform of the electoral and parliamentary system will enable us to do just that.

Many may disagree with me, but of one thing I am absolutely 100% certain of and that is if we are to start addressing these core issues then it will require a level of openness, honesty and free thinking that, for various reasons, very few are currently willing or capable of.
edit on 3/10/11 by Freeborn because: clarity



posted on Oct, 3 2011 @ 10:21 AM
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reply to post by Freeborn
 


Most certainly... I look over the last 50-60 years and think what could have been had we a decent system of governance in place, but we don't and that is important to change.... it will take a lot of free thinking to get our house in order but certainly not impossible.

And this particular instance (on top of the hacking) will most likely come as a timely reminder to many of how broken our system of governance has become, especially when we know it will all be about "party line" of the few rather than them listening to the will of the people.

If history is a guide, that is not a good spot for the establishment to be in..

I can hope this might be a tipping point to bring around long overdue change.



posted on Oct, 3 2011 @ 01:07 PM
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Leaving the EU would be a disaster for the UK. Sure, membership costs £40M, as someone has said. You might think that £40M is a lot, when in the grand scheme of things, its peanuts compared to the overall.

Lets look at what would happen if we left the EU, as I see it.

* The government would save £40M a day (we, and industry wouldn't).
* We would no longer be able to trade, tax-free with other EU nations, our imports and exports would be subject to the same taxation levels the US, China, and Russia face when trading with the EU. The tax-free/reduced trading tax rates are worth significantly more than £40M a day. So, ouch. We'd be dependant on the goods we can produce our selves. Including power.

We currently have a huge energy gap. That is, we need to import more electricity than we produce, because successive governments screwed up our power generation policies. So, expect rolling blackouts, and hideously overpriced electricity bills.
* People who are currently living in EU member states would have to formally emigrate there, or return to the UK. Permission to emigrate would not be garunteed, I don't think.

Linky about the UK energy gap.
en.wikipedia.org...

In summary, the EU is a malignant, and corrupt entity, undoubtedly. However despite that, we need it.



posted on Oct, 3 2011 @ 02:34 PM
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And it begins. The eU is a massively corrupt power play designed to usurp nations, their constitutions and their freedoms. Take them out by taking them down. Restore and return sovereignty back to each individual nations.
This needed to happen and happen yesterday. Collapse and destroy the evil EU.

Go England!



posted on Oct, 3 2011 @ 02:51 PM
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reply to post by Rob37n
 


Thanks for that.


Could you point to a case in which EU laws supersede national laws outside of workers and human rights, like laws about referendums or the way the parliament works, as apparently that was the context in which you were talking about this?

Once more, thanks in advance.



posted on Oct, 3 2011 @ 03:08 PM
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reply to post by BMorris
 


You have the right to your opinion and many people agree with you.

But the point is we, the people, should have the right to decide who we are governed by through a referendum following open and honest debate on the subject.
At present that right is being denied us by those who arrogantly believe they have the right to dictate to us how this union of nations should be governed.

If the majority wish to stay within the EU then so be it, but it should be OUR choice!



posted on Oct, 3 2011 @ 03:27 PM
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reply to post by ArMaP
 


Does Ireland ring a bell. Look at how those in the EU ignored the NO vote in Ireland and continued to press ahead with their goals. I actually do not think the EU would care if the UK Left or not, we are far outside the EU than being in the centre of it.



posted on Oct, 4 2011 @ 05:19 AM
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reply to post by ArMaP
 


Fingers crossed this link takes you to the right place in the text EU vs UK law

The problem is whether we like it or not we're tied into Europe, and I suspect even if we wanted to leave we couldn't get out.



posted on Oct, 4 2011 @ 08:00 AM
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reply to post by AnonymousFem
 


Wasn't the decision of ignoring the "No" vote a government decision instead of an EU decision? If I remember it right, they had to make a second round because it wasn't accepted in the first, so if they had the power to ignore the results they would have done it in the first time.



posted on Oct, 4 2011 @ 08:59 AM
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Well we have our answer... the PM has said there will be NO referendum on the EU as he knows what the country wants and needs.

*bows to amazing the amazing mind reading Cameron*


But Mr Cameron said: "I don't think most people in the country want that choice between in or out.

"I think most people in the country recognise that our interest is to be in this organisation, fighting for a strong market for our goods and services.

"I'm going to have to be Prime Minister for the whole country.

"The point is, what people really want is not a choice between in or out, and the Europe we have now - that, frankly, I am not happy with - and the sort of relationship (where) we get something back for it.

"That is what we should be fighting for, rather than a sort false choice of in or out."

The premier said he was acting in "Britain's national interests" by encouraging the eurozone to integrate further to tackle its problems.

Source


Eurosceptic my left foot he's a closet Europhile..

and while there might be caveats on new treaties and what not he has already said that unless the changes impacts the UK (i.e transfers more power to Brussels) we still do not get a vote and we all know any new treaty will be written around that.



posted on Oct, 4 2011 @ 10:07 AM
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reply to post by ArMaP
 


No it was not the Irish Governments decision, to ignore the Vote. It was the EU 's decision. Basically when Ireland received their bailout from the EU, The EU wanted a yes vote before they got the money, days after the No vote from the Irish People. The EU President stood up and said no one will stop the ratification of the Lisbon treaty, of that is not ignoring the Will of the Irish people then I do not know what is.



posted on Oct, 4 2011 @ 10:45 AM
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Originally posted by Jepic
If the UK quits the EU, they won't be able to compete against China, Russia and the US. They will go down fast.
The future is the EU. Single countries can't survive in the future.

Thinking about Switzerland, they seem to be doing okay, Australia, New Zealand, (well, Australia was doing okay until it got a woman prime minister) I expect there are other countries not doing too badly.
I would think the Brits would kick out all the EU subjects, save themselves a ton of money in welfare.



posted on Oct, 4 2011 @ 12:48 PM
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reply to post by ArMaP
 


It's creation and existence is all the proof you need. Look at how the global economy has been behaving since it's inception. Designed to infiltrate, take over and take down the global economy.

Further proof is how nations are getting downgraded left and right while being forced to bail one another out everytine the central collective sees fit.

The fact that the EU Constitution in both execution and authourity effectively nullifies and voids every single national constitution.

Supranationalization of economic and political powerhouses will never work.



posted on Oct, 4 2011 @ 06:02 PM
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reply to post by Rob37n
 


It worked, thanks.


After reading that and looking more into this subject, it looks like each country has its own way of applying the laws and international treaties they sign. Apparently, in the UK, the international laws (and not only EU laws) have more "weight" than in Portugal, while in the Czech Republic they may even supersede the constitution.

I guess that's why I don't remember any case in Portugal where EU law was used instead of Portuguese law.



posted on Oct, 4 2011 @ 06:11 PM
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reply to post by AnonymousFem
 


That's not what I remember of it, and what I remember of it is the same that this Wikipedia article says about it.



posted on Oct, 4 2011 @ 06:16 PM
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Originally posted by TheImmaculateD1
It's creation and existence is all the proof you need.
No, I like real proof of each thing I look into, generic things presented as proof do not have the same weight.


Further proof is how nations are getting downgraded left and right while being forced to bail one another out everytine the central collective sees fit.
Nations are getting downgraded by private companies.


The fact that the EU Constitution in both execution and authourity effectively nullifies and voids every single national constitution.
That's not true, nothing supersedes or nullifies the Portuguese Constitution, and the Constitution can be changed only with a two thirds majority in the Portuguese parliament.



posted on Oct, 4 2011 @ 08:07 PM
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reply to post by ArMaP
 


The EU Constitution when finally ratified and adopted will nullify every single Constitution in Europa. Shades of it are already occurring as we speak. Nations being forced to bailout other nations and if they God forbid say no, they are the next nation on the hitlist to be downgraded and attacked. If you don't think it's possible, it's already happening as we speak.
edit on 4-10-2011 by TheImmaculateD1 because: (no reason given)



posted on Oct, 5 2011 @ 05:25 AM
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reply to post by TheImmaculateD1
 


What was known as the EU constitution was abandoned, replaced by the Treaty of Lisbon, which was ratified in November 2009, and it became effective in December 1, 2009.

PS: the downgrading (as far as I know) is done by US companies.
edit on 5/10/2011 by ArMaP because: added the PS



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