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POLITICS: Admiral speaks out, Disputes Kerry's account of 1st wound

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posted on Aug, 27 2004 @ 01:50 PM
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Originally posted by dr_strangecraft
"Proof" of courage under fire comes in the form of the purple heart, right? Well, the procedure for giving them out has always differed. In WWII, I think that senior officers had to endorse the medal. I understand that in Korea, it was usually a doctor who signed someone up for a PH. I think that by 'nam, a soldier could request one on his own behalf, and submit the proper paper work.


Strangecraft

Your statement is so riddledd with inaccuracies, it's just impossible to know where to begin. The Purple Heart is not proof of courage under fire. The criteria has been strengthened since its inception and no one really knows how Kerry managed to rangle three of them without so much a missed day of duty.

Anyone who has seen those film clips of Kerry parading around in his spotless uniform with his helmet and M-16 and served as a ground troop in Vietnam has to laugh.

I don't know how exactly Kerry was able to go to Vietnam and get himself decorated and catch himself on film so he could come home in four months to commit treason, but it was masterful to say the least.

The problem is Vietnam veterans are not going to let him get away with it this time.




posted on Aug, 27 2004 @ 01:50 PM
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in an op ed piece by Robert Novak:


"Unfit for Command" sends a devastating message, unless effectively refuted. Perhaps most disturbing are allegations that Kerry's combat decorations are unjustified. His first Purple Heart, the book alleges, was accidentally self-inflicted. His commander, Grant Hibbard, is quoted as saying: "I didn't recommend him for a Purple Heart. Kerry probably wrote up the paperwork and recommended himself." Full release of documents demanded by his critics could settle this claim quickly if it is unwarranted.



2004 Creators Syndicate, Inc.

taken from this site:

www.townhall.com...

Notice that his C.O. didn't recommend him for the purple (although he can only speculate on who did the actual paperwork.)






posted on Aug, 27 2004 @ 01:54 PM
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I'm no military man, and only remember bits and pieces what I've read. I know even less about Navy than other services.

If you could give better info, I'd appreciate it. Like I said in my posts "I think," and " I understand."

I definitely didn't mean to sound like "I know."

Personally, I don't believe a piece of metal proves much of anything either way. That's why I put little quotes around the word "Proof."




[edit on 27-8-2004 by dr_strangecraft]



posted on Aug, 27 2004 @ 03:03 PM
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I couldn't agree more with Jack Martin about "this petty electorate". A better description might be "uniformed, misinformed, and misled electorate". If the electorate knew the truth they could make make sound choices. As it is, they have little more than grossly inadequate grounds upon which to choose between the sparring candidates spin. One problem is the extreme difficulty of sifting thorugh all the lies, spin, and misinformation. Any source that has to preface its message with assurances such as "fair and balanced" and "no spin zone" must be taken with caution as it is more likely than not that it's message is exactly the opposite of what it claims to be (read that as "FOX"). Most of you on this thread swallow your favored partisan position without question as though you're incapable of considering the opposing evidence. Who IS the bigger liar, Bush or Kerry? Who led us into war on on the basis of spin, false pretenses, misinformatin, and outright lies. How quickly you forget and forgive when the liar is on your end of the political spectrum. We have over 1,000 dead Americans plus many more maimed and injured, countless dead maimed and injured Iraqis (has there ever been disclosure of how many Iraqis we've killed and damaged?), and billions of ordnance expended in this vain effort of a war. Saddam is gone. Why are we still there? Let's hear some truth for once. Why is the electorate's attention being diverted yet again with trivialities? I want to hear the cold, hard, and upleasant truth about what the USA is doing and its status abroad and at home TODAY. As between Bush and Kerry, can it fairly be said under any view of Bush that he is qualified to be a commander in chief of the armed forces? That said, this thread is interesting in that it lays bare the prejudices of those who are posting here.



posted on Aug, 27 2004 @ 03:08 PM
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Originally posted by FredT

Originally posted by Mirthful Me
The news just keeps getting worse, a little digging has brought the previously obscure Rear Admiral William L. Schachte, Jr. into focus. I wonder how the Democratic Attack Dogs will tangle with a storied career such as his.


His record speaks for itself:
Admiral Schachte's personal decorations include the Defense Distinguished Service Medal, Distinguished Service Medal, Defense Superior Service Medal, the Legion of Merit with Gold Star (in lieu of second award), the Bronze Star with "V", the Meritorious Service Medal with Gold Star (in lieu of second award) and the Combat Action Ribbon


Yes, and who recomended him for all of those?

Let's face it, officers give each other medals.



posted on Aug, 27 2004 @ 03:16 PM
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"Well, first thing that comes to my mind is his inability to tell truth from lie...that seems like it ought to be a requirement for the Presidency."

I'm afraid if the above were a requirement for the job, we'd have to call off the election.

If we're talking about lies, then how about we consider something a little more recent? What about the lies we were all told as justification for invading Iraq? Those lies were blatant and right in our face. And those lies have led to the death of nearly 1,000 American soldiers, not to speak of the deaths of all the innocent people who got caught in the cross-fire or had their heads hacked off. Those lies are robbing you of your hard earned dollars as we speak.

Now, those are lies that really mean somethin'.

Oh wait, Kerry didn't tell us those lies, did he? I forgot, that was Bush.

Never mind ...



posted on Aug, 27 2004 @ 04:24 PM
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What are you people saying then?

Kerry, 35 years ago, went to Vietnam when he didn't have to, to get wounded and risk his live, in hopes of running for President in 2004 on National Security.



posted on Aug, 27 2004 @ 04:35 PM
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Bush campaign money resources are very wealthy indeed they back him on during the waiting and recount period during last election and now they have plenty of money to use on slandering Kerry.

It must be good to have so many wealthy supports. Occurs if what you are offering to give back is going at the end to make this country get more and more down the gutter while the elite groups get wealthier. Now that the swift boat group had come out to be just a slandering group with not proof now they have to find a poppet to take over and keep the juices rolling.

What a pitiful attempt from this administration to get the country wrap in slandering of another candidate so the reality of what is going on in this nation will go unnoticed.



posted on Aug, 27 2004 @ 04:42 PM
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HERE IS POOR KERRY GETTING BEAT UP AGAIN...
to bad that he just didn't hole up and go AWOL DURING VIETNAM.
Or use his daddys clout to get him a cushy job in the reserves... then he wouldn't have had to put his life on the line and try to defend anerica... I think that idiot even volunteered, unlike the many drafties...
But oh well... If he had chickened out and pulled strings to keep out of vietman, then maybe we couldn't find any of the people to interveiw that served in the reserves with him...
such is the way of things...
why oh why couldn't he just have been a chicken instead of a wimp...



posted on Aug, 27 2004 @ 05:29 PM
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I wonder how much money Bush is paying this bi-partisan admiral?



posted on Aug, 27 2004 @ 05:39 PM
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Originally posted by cstyle226
What are you people saying then?

Kerry, 35 years ago, went to Vietnam when he didn't have to, to get wounded and risk his live, in hopes of running for President in 2004 on National Security.


Kerry is a shameless self-promoter who from the moment he landed in Vietnam began building his political resume and getting his behind out of harm's way ASAP. When he returned, instead of just being a returning vet, he promoted his personal agenda on the backs of his fellow vets.

He knew from the beginning what his aspirations were. His whole life has been one continuous series of posturing for the highest office in the land.

As I said, before, it was masterful, except for all of us on whose backs he built his reputation.

[edit on 04/8/27 by GradyPhilpott]



posted on Aug, 27 2004 @ 05:46 PM
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Originally posted by dr_strangecraftIf you could give better info, I'd appreciate it. Like I said in my posts "I think," and " I understand."


The problem here is that there are so many people who have never served and who are easily mislead by information which is fundamentally flawed, yet seems plausible to the casual observer. Others pointed out your errors and I pointed out others.

I don't know what you mean by better info. If you go to google and punch in "purple heart criteria" you will get a wealth of info there.

Actually, a piece of metal is supposed to tell a lot about a man, but there are those who have abused the system and thereby have diminished the meaning for all.



posted on Aug, 27 2004 @ 05:48 PM
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I wonder what requirements are needed to run this country, it must not take much when our actual president is an idiot, and I guess you really don't need to be intelligent at all.

And when somebody comes around with more brains and intelligent he gets slander for his accomplishments.

Whoa!!!!!!!!!!!!This country is really going down the hill.

Yeah keep the people poor, dependant and ignorant.

Kerry medals and a 30 year ago war is more important that the issues in this nation now that is talking our country not only as an enemy around the world but is putting the citizens of our nation in danger over sea.

Kerry medals and 30 year ago war is more important than the unemployment rate and the children living on the edge of poverty on our own soil.

Amazing.



posted on Aug, 27 2004 @ 06:21 PM
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Originally posted by GradyPhilpott
He knew from the beginning what his aspirations were. His whole life has been one continuous series of posturing for the highest office in the land.

As I said, before, it was masterful, except for all of us on whose backs he built his reputation.

[edit on 04/8/27 by GradyPhilpott]


I have to agree w/ Grady. There is no way to reconcile Kerry's racking up the medals in a short period of time (something if legit should be a great source of pride and honor), then coming home and casting them aside, (cause at the time that was the politically popular thing to do), then years later using them to promote an image of what they stood for in the first place (when you already dissed that).

True, much of this happened years ago, and if the medals were justified or not, I could even maybe accept that he used them when he got back to diss the country & war if that's how he really felt. But to turn around now and use them for the opposite reason reeks of a self serving political agenda.

That being said, how could anyone who fears Bush's suppossed "self serving political agenda" not be raising a dissappointed eyebrow here?

The mystery for me is how someone makes it to this level politically and makes such a politically disasterous mistake as this. Bad bad call to even try to use these medals for credibility in this race. If his judgement is so bad in the game of politics (which he should be an expert in by now) - no way I want him making calls as Commander in Chief".



posted on Aug, 28 2004 @ 12:15 AM
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Ok what I dont understand is if Kerry's medals were undeserved then why was he given them? Do they just hand out these medals to whoever requests them?
The swift boat veterans website says:


It is clear that at least one of Kerry's Purple Heart awards was the result of his own negligence, not enemy fire, and that Kerry went to unusual lengths to obtain the award after being turned down by his own commanding officer.

So clear that the military saw fit to award him the medal despite all the substantiating "evidence" to the contrary these people make claims about

The main problem these people seem to have with Kerry are his actions after returning from vietnam where he made statements saying that the american military presence was unjustified and corrupt. The same people who take offense at his allegations of corruption make allegations about corruption regarding the Military command structure that awarded Kerry his medals.
You cant have it both ways people one or the other please...
Even if his first purple heart was awarded under questionable circumstances does that invalidate all the other medals he was rewarded?



posted on Aug, 28 2004 @ 12:19 AM
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Even if all the things people say are Kerry are true he still is better qualified to be President then our current commander and chief.
What exactly are President Bushes qualifications to be president?
Other then the fact that he was president during 911.



posted on Aug, 28 2004 @ 01:18 AM
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Originally posted by GTWill
I wonder how much money Bush is paying this bi-partisan admiral?


Funny, all the Dems can see when a figure critical to Kerry emerges is $$$$$ They must have been bribed! No way would an unbribed person dare dispute the record of Kerry. Large sums of money chaging hands can easily traced. and if he was bribed, it will or would surface.



posted on Aug, 28 2004 @ 06:44 AM
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Yes, Dubiousone, you are a fine writer...couln't have said it better myself. (What are you doing Saturday night)?

[edit on 08/19/2004 by Jack Martin]



posted on Aug, 28 2004 @ 06:56 AM
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Oh, and by the way, republicans, did I present myself as a democrat? I am equally frustrated by reports and constant updates of reports with regard to President Bush's guard record. Hell, he was only a boy, too.

Before I step into that booth early this coming November, I want to know who these two men are now, not what brand of bubble gum they chewed their freshman years and whether they stuck wads of it to the underside of their chairs when they were through with it.



posted on Aug, 28 2004 @ 11:50 AM
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Originally posted by Jack Martin

Before I step into that booth early this coming November, I want to know who these two men are now


Jack

There is a big difference between the indiscretions of Bush's youth and the kind of activity engaged in by Kerry. Bush has had the good sense to change his ways and admit his past wrongs. I have never seen anything of the sort from Kerry.

"I voted for the draft-dodger once, but I'll be damned if I will vote for the traitor." --Stanley Dean Higgins.

[edit on 04/8/28 by GradyPhilpott]



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