Is there still hope for a better world?

Originally posted by NewAgeMan
reply to post by Americanist

 

Could have been a post by an atheist troll just having us on..

I wonder... Hypothetically speaking... If I lived in a perfect world how would I experience gods love? If the world were truly perfect I would have no need of gods love.

Originally posted by Americanist

Originally posted by hudsonhawk69
Who says we need a better world? How could I experience Jesus' love in a perfect world... In a better world I would have less need of his love and I would miss that. I like the world the way it is. It's exciting.

Define exciting. Does it involve children starving to death then having maggots swarm out their rectum? You know what they say... It's all about location, location, location.

Sure... Why not? After all death was created by GOD after he threw adam and eve out of the garden.

reply to post by hudsonhawk69


Thy will be done on earth as it is in heaven.

reply to post by hudsonhawk69


What are you talking about, God's love is our actual condition, already. There's nothing wrong with catching up to that, and becoming it. That's the whole point OF Christianity. For the love of God, actualized and realized and made manifest in the world, to be real. There's no need of anything apart from it, to realize it. It's it's own intrinsic reward, not relative to anything else, don't be absurd.

It has no comparison, and surely not in the insane evils of this world, that's crazy.

Love meets love.

Originally posted by NewAgeMan
reply to post by hudsonhawk69

 

What are you talking about, God's love is our actual condition, already. There's nothing wrong with catching up to that, and becoming it. That's the whole point OF Christianity. For the love of God, actualized and realized and made manifest in the world, to be real. There's no need of anything apart from it, to realize it. It's it's own intrinsic reward, not relative to anything else, don't be absurd.

It has no comparison, and surely not in the insane evils of this world, that's crazy.

Love meets love.

Evils? What evils?.. Death, pain, weeds, hard labour, the pain of childbirth. You are mistaken my friend, these things were created by god. the book of Genesis tells us so. How could god the omniopent possibly create imperfect things? He cannot, he is perfect. Therefore these "evils" that god has created are just as bueatiful as the "good" things that you keep refering to.
god doesn't make mistakes, are you saying that this world is a mistake on gods part? you would have me believe that god is fallable and this world is an evil nightmare? Or that god is infallable and this world is just the way he made it?

We're having a communication breakdown here over the term "world". That's all. Don't panic.

There's the real world as God made it, and then a false yes evil matrix of delusion and all manner of wickedness thrown over the world and over the minds of men to prevent them from seeing and experiencing the world as God intended. There's a mask of delusion built upon a type of satanic system intended to enslave the minds and the lives of men. There is the kingdom of man and the kingdom of heaven, and yes, the kingdom of heaven is spread out upon the earth but men do not see it. Children see it. Most of us have seen it, or caught glimpses of it. It's still possible a better "world" and I mean one moving into increasing alignment with the will of God to love.

People are so bent on being right, that's part of what we must give up.

You assumed by world I meant THE world, but no I meant one a false reality, and two the real world, and life as it is. I thought I made this clear in the OP, that by "world" and two worlds, I was drawing a distinction between teh evils of the world, and the world as God would have it, in accordance with his love. God is not a devil and he doesn't play both sides of the fence, like the CIA. God is an all good God, praise God!

When Satan offered Christ "the world" which Jesus refused, it was a certain type of world which Satan was offering, not the real world as it is, and the truth, which Jesus clung to, and held firm.

This world as it is, isn't what Jesus had in mind however. Things went awry and the spirit of the Lord was hijacked by an empire for socio political leverage. The seed however remains, the rhizome.

It's time for the dark ages to come to an end, that's all I'm saying, in the name of and for the sake of Jesus Christ. Amen.

Let the world still be saved though him, as it is. Let us breath a collective sigh of relief, and set to work plowing the field never looking back.

Originally posted by NewAgeMan
reply to post by hudsonhawk69

 

What are you talking about, God's love is our actual condition, already. There's nothing wrong with catching up to that, and becoming it. That's the whole point OF Christianity. For the love of God, actualized and realized and made manifest in the world, to be real. There's no need of anything apart from it, to realize it. It's it's own intrinsic reward, not relative to anything else, don't be absurd.

It has no comparison, and surely not in the insane evils of this world, that's crazy.

Love meets love.

edit on 3-10-2011 by NewAgeMan because: (no reason given)

Apparently some people enjoy the rope burns as they descend further and further into the void...

It seemed like a simple enough question that I posed. Please excuse if I fail to understand the view point of two so highly evolved individuals.

Did god make the world just the way it is as stated in Genesis? Or did he in fact make a horrible mistake? If there is some other 'second' type of world that god wishes us to achieve, then why didn't he just create 'that' world in the first place?

reply to post by NewAgeMan


but still, your saying as the other poster pointed out....

that gods works are not perfect...because something happened that was not intended by god?

are you really saying that this world is not exactly as it should be? that there could be error or mishaps that werent supposed to be a part of the design of life itself, the expression of god, theeself?

and are you saying, god is something separate from us, from life?

can anything, any life, really have any power, on its own accord, without being a part of the design intended?

what sits around the corner for us now...is coming to terms with all past, and what is right now, is also and can only possibly be, meant to be....and what does it offer us, whats the grandness of such a design, of life, awareness, being of this interconnected web of life. coming to terms with in understanding all expression of 'god' holds each a unique part in the whole of what we are.

just adding some thoughts
lv




through death and ends, comes new births and beginnings
to see the light one has to experience being in a dark place
can we learn what we are, if we do not also experience what we are not
lifes interconnectedness shows oneness

Originally posted by hudsonhawk69

Originally posted by NewAgeMan
reply to post by hudsonhawk69

 

What are you talking about, God's love is our actual condition, already. There's nothing wrong with catching up to that, and becoming it. That's the whole point OF Christianity. For the love of God, actualized and realized and made manifest in the world, to be real. There's no need of anything apart from it, to realize it. It's it's own intrinsic reward, not relative to anything else, don't be absurd.

It has no comparison, and surely not in the insane evils of this world, that's crazy.

Love meets love.

Evils? What evils?.. Death, pain, weeds, hard labour, the pain of childbirth. You are mistaken my friend, these things were created by god. the book of Genesis tells us so. How could god the omniopent possibly create imperfect things? He cannot, he is perfect. Therefore these "evils" that god has created are just as bueatiful as the "good" things that you keep refering to.
god doesn't make mistakes, are you saying that this world is a mistake on gods part? you would have me believe that god is fallable and this world is an evil nightmare? Or that god is infallable and this world is just the way he made it?

edit on 3-10-2011 by NewAgeMan because: (no reason given)

edit on 3/10/2011 by hudsonhawk69 because: i muffed up

God is translated as plural in Genesis. You also find giants on top of soap opera drama. I don't think they were referring to the NY Giants or General Hospital either. Did you research the origins of these texts, follow literal/ language translations, or analyze the style in which they were written prior to AD? At least you're familiar with doublespeak judging by your posts.

Some follow up questions... Do you presume God requires that many lines to get a point across? That our 10 Commandments (a third of which are straight up plagiarized) were delivered by the modern day version of Warlord? Yes, right down to forcing little girls into sex as concubines after slaughtering their parents... Because your Almighty said so or course. Would you also happen to accept King James as your Lord and Savior? How does bending over for the Roman Catholic Church to save your soul sound? I'm not so sure what your answers will turn out to be, but I can assure you... Your shooting blanks on your definition of evil.

Originally posted by hudsonhawk69
It seemed like a simple enough question that I posed. Please excuse if I fail to understand the view point of two so highly evolved individuals.

Did god make the world just the way it is as stated in Genesis? Or did he in fact make a horrible mistake? If there is some other 'second' type of world that god wishes us to achieve, then why didn't he just create 'that' world in the first place?

Work to achieve a perfect World without fouling it up... There's a solid choice. If you need an explanation for perfect, just don't use most of what you see on the news.

Every society when it has reached its peak begins to be torn down until total collapse or destruction. Such has been the cycles of man for thousands of years. Everyone is waiting for something to happen. Some are waiting for god to save us and punish the wicked yet he does not. Some are waiting for societal break down and or environmental destruction and think a better new society will rise from the ashes when such destruction will set humanity back thousands of years. Some are waiting for some magical vibration to change everyone to good people etc etc.

This is all illusion. It really is all up to us. All those millenniums of the rise and fall of societies is because of our immaturity as a human race but it was part of our learning. We will experience another total collapse cycle this time unless we realize we have the power within us to transition to a new better society peacefully without such collapse or destruction. No one is going to do it for us. God will not do it for us. What ever your concept of God is the gods are waiting on us to mature and learn to be as they are.

You don't teach a child to ride a bike by riding it for him. He has to do it himself. If we want heaven on earth we have to build it ourselves and then the gods will walk among us as thier brothers and sisters who finally grew up. The illusion is some outside power will save us all or that we are powerless etc. to do anything etc.

The better world will come eventually however not until we build it and can sustain it my friends. We have the power within us just as a child has the power within it to become an adult. Until we realize that as a large enough group and put together the first molecule of the new society to set an example for others we will remain in the school of hard knocks my friends.

Originally posted by hudsonhawk69

Originally posted by NewAgeMan
reply to post by hudsonhawk69

 

What are you talking about, God's love is our actual condition, already. There's nothing wrong with catching up to that, and becoming it. That's the whole point OF Christianity. For the love of God, actualized and realized and made manifest in the world, to be real. There's no need of anything apart from it, to realize it. It's it's own intrinsic reward, not relative to anything else, don't be absurd.

It has no comparison, and surely not in the insane evils of this world, that's crazy.

Love meets love.

Evils? What evils?.. Death, pain, weeds, hard labour, the pain of childbirth. You are mistaken my friend, these things were created by god. the book of Genesis tells us so. How could god the omniopent possibly create imperfect things? He cannot, he is perfect. Therefore these "evils" that god has created are just as bueatiful as the "good" things that you keep refering to.
god doesn't make mistakes, are you saying that this world is a mistake on gods part? you would have me believe that god is fallable and this world is an evil nightmare? Or that god is infallable and this world is just the way he made it?

These things were given by God that we might learn to overcome them ourselves. By over coming these obstacles, we discover just how grand he is.

Would we have taken the time to learn about microbes, had we not gotten ill and searched for treatment? What is that driving force to discover, but the will of the Spirit to find it's creator.

These "Evils" we would not have, if we focused all that we have to eliminating them. Child birth does not have to be painful any more. War is not necessary, starvation is senseless, and all the cruelty and oppression does not have to be. It exists because we must learn to stand on our own and stop it.

Growing up is so hard to do. It is so much easier when you have family to lean on. That is who we are.

With Love,

Your Brother

reply to post by hawkiye


Wow, great post my friend. We seem to be on the same wavelength.



With Love,

Your Brother

reply to post by hawkiye

You don't teach a child to ride a bike by riding it for him. He has to do it himself. If we want heaven on earth we have to build it ourselves and then the gods will walk among us as their brothers and sisters who finally grew up.

All that needs to be said...

If you're someone who's unable to grasp this concept in the present, I wish you the best in your next life.

Originally posted by IAMIAM

Originally posted by hudsonhawk69

Originally posted by NewAgeMan
reply to post by hudsonhawk69

 

What are you talking about, God's love is our actual condition, already. There's nothing wrong with catching up to that, and becoming it. That's the whole point OF Christianity. For the love of God, actualized and realized and made manifest in the world, to be real. There's no need of anything apart from it, to realize it. It's it's own intrinsic reward, not relative to anything else, don't be absurd.

It has no comparison, and surely not in the insane evils of this world, that's crazy.

Love meets love.

Evils? What evils?.. Death, pain, weeds, hard labour, the pain of childbirth. You are mistaken my friend, these things were created by god. the book of Genesis tells us so. How could god the omniopent possibly create imperfect things? He cannot, he is perfect. Therefore these "evils" that god has created are just as bueatiful as the "good" things that you keep refering to.
god doesn't make mistakes, are you saying that this world is a mistake on gods part? you would have me believe that god is fallable and this world is an evil nightmare? Or that god is infallable and this world is just the way he made it?

These things were given by God that we might learn to overcome them ourselves. By over coming these obstacles, we discover just how grand he is.

Would we have taken the time to learn about microbes, had we not gotten ill and searched for treatment? What is that driving force to discover, but the will of the Spirit to find it's creator.

These "Evils" we would not have, if we focused all that we have to eliminating them. Child birth does not have to be painful any more. War is not necessary, starvation is senseless, and all the cruelty and oppression does not have to be. It exists because we must learn to stand on our own and stop it.

Growing up is so hard to do. It is so much easier when you have family to lean on. That is who we are.

With Love,

Your Brother

Wow! You are actually starting to make some sence. Not exactly an answer to the question I asked but what the hey? We made a step in the right direction there. You seem to be an intelligent, sensitive and perceptive person so I'm going to be honest with you.
It must be clear to you and your friend captain america that I have different philosophical views from you both but perhaps I can offer you this. If you are unhappy with the world my friend... Change it. I know you can. You know you can, even captian america knows you can. If you find that you are not having much luck changing the world than perhaps there is a problem with your method.
ATS is hardley the place to usher in a new era of enlightenment for mankind. For starters I believe you have already encountered many people on ATS the just don't take you seriously. That was to be expected. What were you really aiming for here? This is a conspiracy theory website and you have a tendancy to come across as an unstable crackpot. Now I'm begining to see that that is not true but there is no substitute for a face to face encounter.
The internet is convenient but it is hardy the most effective medium in which to convey your message.
You seem harmless enough and clearly your intention are good... Why are you here? And not out there changing the world? Jesus was one man. Buddha was one man. Muhammad was one man. Gandhi was one man. History is filled with men and women who single handedly changed the course of history. Is that what you are doing? Are you out there on the streets feeding the hungry and healing the sick? Are you teaching the masses that there is a better way? Do you get down there in the gutter with the very people who would crucify you and say 'I love you?'
Here you have tried to share with me your vision of a different world. It is within your power to make it so.

Go ye therefore and teach all nations.

reply to post by hudsonhawk69


Hi guys, hudsonhawk,

I believe that discussion is a good way to start. This way you can get in touch with others who are of the same mentality to help out and benefit from the power of working together as opposed to one of these people going out and crucifying him/herself for people who might not appreciate them.

So, I am in agreement with the OP in starting a thread such as this one. I am also of the belief that good intentions are only the begining of the possibility of building hope for a better future, but it is not the end of it.

There is so much to write and so little time to do so... I will continue posting from time to time to help out if I am able to do so.